I hate the term 'gifted'

[shawthorne44]

When I was in high school, they announced the 3 highest ACT scores on the intercom during homeroom.  It was pretty funny because up until then, everyone thought my brother was an idiot.  (He had the highest score in the school.)  Of course that was back in 1982 when people were less fussy about privacy.

 

I remember one example, only in reverse (pointing out the idiots)  

My class was the first to take the State's Must_Pass_This_To_Graduate_High_School exam, but it didn't matter for us.  We were the trail run  I remember one kid I vaguely knew sleep for the first 2.5 hours of the 3 hour test.  Then some weeks later the intercom announces, "We have the results from the (SuperImportant) Test.  Will these students come to the office. (List of about a dozen names)"  The sleeper was not in the list.  

[MinivanMom]

The term "gifted" has never bothered me nor have I ever experienced strong animosity from others when using it. Gifted means the top 2% of kids academically. I only use the term in that context, which means I don't use the term too often. I've never really used the term to refer to my own children (since that would mean divulging confidential test scores) except to a few trustworthy family members - who are close enough and supportive enough that they are aware of where the kiddo's test scores fall.

 

If the issue is bragging, then I don't think it matters whether you use the term "gifted" or some other euphemism. Nobody wants to hear you talk about how your 3-yr-old can read or your 12-yr-old is taking multi-variable Calculus at the university unless they are the grandparents or unusually close, supportive friends. The same goes for a child who has been cast in a movie or is hoping for a football scholarship. If you talk about it to anyone outside of grandma or the godparents then it will quickly be perceived as bragging. It's hard to feel like you can't talk about your child's interests, needs, or successes, but I don't think we have a monopoly on that problem as the parents of "gifted" children. Many parents of children who are outliers feel the same way.

[ElizaG]

Eliza, it was your post on the other thread that sent me here, feeling very misunderstood.  In reality, I think I was not explaining myself very well so I have tried again in post 140. 

 

Please don't think that I fit into the above category, because I don't.

I'm sorry you felt that way, though I'm not sure why it was my post out of the whole bunch that particularly bothered you, or even which one you're talking about.   That thread got pretty confusing. 

 

The idea that certain curricula are flat-out unsuitable for children of high ability does seem to be a widely held assumption.  I first heard that sort of remark about Saxon from someone IRL, many years ago, and the topic comes up fairly often on these boards.   So, even if you had said that, my including it in the list of issues wouldn't have been only in response to you.  It was more a part of my attempt to share that feeling alienated isn't just something that happens in mainstream circles.  

 

On that note, I hope you're also not really saying that you came over here to get away from the likes of me.   :001_smile:  This board was the reason I joined the forums in the first place, and IIRC, it was the main place I posted for a long time.   My ideas about education have shifted over the years, and at this point I'm not so much interested in figuring out acceleration as in trying to get a better sense of our overall goals, but I'm pretty sure I haven't morphed into One of Those People Who Just Don't "Get" It.   (Whatever you'd like to call "it.")

[Runningmom80]

I went to read the thread in question, and it was kind of a trainwreck. (No offense!) Lots of posts speaking in absolutes usually doesn't make for productive conversation.

 

That being said, as far as the k-8 board goes, I've decided to remove my kids ages so I can post there. Just a couple of weeks ago, I asked for advice for latin after Minimus, and I was told to get song school latin because my ds is 7. Same things when I asked about science. People are just trying to help, and I don't come out and say "hey my kid is really advanced" so it is what it is.

[MotherOfBoys]

runningmom has a good idea! I have the same problem with ages when we were looking for grammar and they commented on the math. I've got math...I didn't ask for math...I asked for a grammar rec!!!!

[Heathermomster]

I don't have an issue with the term gifted.  I use the term alongside all the "dys"  or simply 2e to infer his asynchronous development.  I've told some people IRL, but as time progresses, that number has grown less and less.  

[lewelma]

I'm sorry you felt that way, though I'm not sure why it was my post out of the whole bunch that particularly bothered you, or even which one you're talking about.   That thread got pretty confusing. 

 

The idea that certain curricula are flat-out unsuitable for children of high ability does seem to be a widely held assumption.  I first heard that sort of remark about Saxon from someone IRL, many years ago, and the topic comes up fairly often on these boards.   So, even if you had said that, my including it in the list of issues wouldn't have been only in response to you.  It was more a part of my attempt to share that feeling alienated isn't just something that happens in mainstream circles.  

 

On that note, I hope you're also not really saying that you came over here to get away from the likes of me.   :001_smile:  This board was the reason I joined the forums in the first place, and IIRC, it was the main place I posted for a long time.   My ideas about education have shifted over the years, and at this point I'm not so much interested in figuring out acceleration as in trying to get a better sense of our overall goals, but I'm pretty sure I haven't morphed into One of Those People Who Just Don't "Get" It.   (Whatever you'd like to call "it.")

 

Heavens, not to escape you.  Your post just happened to be the one that tipped me over.  :001_smile: And which post doesn't really matter, I was just being sensitive, I'm sure. I came here because I can talk freely and not get in trouble.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, it's just that people here all have some sort of shared experience which allows them to read my posts as they are meant. 

 

I also think it is easy for me to lose track of what is 'normal' or 'average' given that I work with my 2 boys all day.  So I too can make assumptions that are completely wrong.  It is just a major disconnect.  Really, I should be very very careful what I post over there, as I have no desire to upset people.  Sigh.

 

 

[Kerileanne99]

I also think it is easy for me to lose track of what is 'normal' or 'average' given that I work with my 2 boys all day. So I too can make assumptions that are completely wrong. It is just a major disconnect. Really, I should be very very careful what I post over there, as I have no desire to upset people. Sigh.

This really resonates with me...even just starting out. I have come to the realization that I have absolutely NO idea what is 'normal' or 'standard.' I have only the one kiddo and am coming to believe that maybe I can't even begin to relate to the experiences of parents with kids the age of my child and then some. I have always, always assumed that my child had just had lots of exposure, lots of time as an only, lots of advantages. It took time, testing, and results of intensive neuropsych results to begin to change that perspective:). Even then, when my kiddo does something particularly uh, questionable, I have my moments😄

 

There was a thread not too long ago on how dreadfully inappropriate and intense Kindy expectations were becoming, complete with samples of work. I came to the above realization when several pages of posts agreed that that the level of work was much too much to expect of a 5/6 year old...and all I could see was the stunted sentence structure, inventive spelling, and handwriting:(

I KNOW that is unfair, and for the record, do NOT agree that that level of output is appropriate as a general standard to meet across the boards at such a tender age! Of course not.

But it was such a rude awakening to me personally that I simply cannot even gauge what is 'normal.'

 

And again, I am happy to have at least one place in this forum that I feel reasonably comfortable asking advice. I made the mistake of reading through the 'what are you using for Kindy' thread not too long ago. It would have been nice to ask about a few things. Yeah, never, I know just what would happen:(

[quark]

This really resonates with me...even just starting out. I have come to the realization that I have absolutely NO idea what is 'normal' or 'standard.'

 

(chuckle) Count me in the group. Sometimes I realize it but also forget and then bam! I say something and hear only crickets and I feel like I've inserted an entire foot (size 10) in my big mouth.

[Heathermomster]

I don't know what is normal either.  

 

Earlier this week,my 6yo DD dug out her bro's snap circuit kit and built the water detector circuit.  She approached me and asked for AA batteries and a cup of water to help her verify that it worked.  DD did this all on her own.  Seriously, DH, DS, and I were all clueless.  On the one hand, I feel like that is normal, but then I'm not so sure.  She will be 7 yo late December.

[shawthorne44]

(chuckle) Count me in the group. Sometimes I realize it but also forget and then bam! I say something and hear only crickets and I feel like I've inserted an entire foot (size 10) in my big mouth.

 

DD was below the growth curve from about 6 months old to 3.5-years-old.  She's still merely at 10% for height/weight.  Because of her size she seemed way advanced on her milestones, when really she was pretty normal.   So, when people would comment on how amazing it was that she was walking, or talking, or whatever, I would tell them how old she was.  Then I would see the relieved looks in their eyes.  Then, I swear it was overnight, instead of relieved looks, I heard the crickets.  I'm a bit dense, so it took me awhile to figure out that DD might be ahead of the ball.  I don't want anyone to feel bad, so now I just say "She is small for her age", and let people decide she is as old as they want to.  

[8filltheheart]

Of course then you also have the people like me who have the attitude that just b/c they can doesn't mean they need to or even should.  :)   And that throws another whole dimension to how conversations can spiral.   

 

SInce my kids are literally all over the place, I think I have pretty much seen most ends of the spectrum of slow, avg, and advanced.   My core vision remains the same with all of my kids, though, regardless of abilities.  Implementation of the vision is child dependent.  That is about it.

[Mike in SA]

Of course then you also have the people like me who have the attitude that just b/c they can doesn't mean they need to or even should.   :)   And that throws another whole dimension to how conversations can spiral.   

 

SInce my kids are literally all over the place, I think I have pretty much seen most ends of the spectrum of slow, avg, and advanced.   My core vision remains the same with all of my kids, though, regardless of abilities.  Implementation of the vision is child dependent.  That is about it.

 

(edited to keep consistent with the quote.  :) )

 

We realize we made a mistake with DS12 when we chose not to accelerate him.  Since we both had math degrees, we decided he'd be strong no matter what, and decided not to press math at all.  Boy, was that the wrong thing to do.

 

He was unhappy at school, and we knew he didn't fit in.  We didn't know about the whole 2e thing at the time, but we could tell he had issues with anxiety management.  It turns out he was underwhelmed, and didn't know how to react other than to be stressed.

 

When we took him out of school to home school, he consumed four full years worth of math in the space of only one year (5th, geometry, pre-algebra, and then algebra).  It was the happiest he had been.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, just like with everything else a child needs, be careful not to let your own perceptions become a roadblock to the child's health.  For a young child, educational needs are equal to social ones.  We lost that balance, and he was the one to suffer for it.  Now that he is six years ahead of the curve, he is confident and happy.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Mike in SA

[8filltheheart]

I get this, and I don't disagree with it.  But we realize we made a mistake with DS12 when we chose not to accelerate him.  Since we both had math degrees, we decided he'd be strong no matter what, and decided not to press math at all.  Boy, was that the wrong thing to do.

 

He was unhappy at school, and we knew he didn't fit in.  We didn't know about the whole 2e thing at the time, but we could tell he had issues with anxiety management.  It turns out he was underwhelmed, and didn't know how to react other than to be stressed.

 

When we took him out of school to home school, he consumed four full years worth of math in the space of only one year (5th, geometry, pre-algebra, and then algebra).  It was the happiest he had been.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, just like with everything else a child needs, be careful not to let your own perceptions become a roadblock to the child's health.  For a young child, educational needs are equal to social ones.  We lost that balance, and he was the one to suffer for it.  Now that he is six years ahead of the curve, he is confident and happy.

 

You misunderstood my post.  Not your fault, mine.  I didn't quote the post I was responding to.  I was actually referring to pre-K/K academics.  It is a personal philosophy.  For example, my 4 yr old is probably our most advanced child (and I have some pretty advanced kids), but I have zero "academic" goals for her.   (that is so far outside the norm of modern educational philosophy that 99% of people think I will ruin my kids' academic futures for not teaching preschool.  ;) )

 

I have kids that have been doing alg at 10 or college level materials in middle school.   :)   *I* do not accelerate my kids (that is another approach you will recognize amg posters.   They find teaching methods to rapidly accelerate their kids academically.)  But that does not mean my kids do not accelerate themselves.  I simply meet my kids where they are and we do whatever they are capable of doing.  

[Heathermomster]

I think a lot of you seem to confuse academically advanced or high achieving with gifted. Kids can be high achievers and be pretty average human beings. My most gifted kid is my lowest achiever.

 

Being super bright doesn't mean that a child will thrive academically or be a high achiever. Some do. Some don't. Some eventually do. Just because a child is academically two grades above doesn't impress me much and yes does make me think of hot housing and pushy parents.

See, this is why I rarely post here.  What IQ score or percentage sub-test score is acceptable to post in this forum?

[8filltheheart]

See, this is why I rarely post here?  What IQ score or percentage sub-test score is acceptable to post in this forum?

 

Heather, this is not a gifted forum.  It is the accelerated forum.   :)

 

FWIW, my kids don't have IQ test scores with the exception of our Aspie.  His composite IQ is somewhere in the 130s even with subscores in the 2nd percentile for processeing speeds.  The psy said we do not have an accurate view of his real abilities b/c his stanines are so skewed.   I don't even discuss him in terms of being accelerated b/c his level of adulthood functioning is so low.  

 

When I discuss my kids as being advanced, it is in terms of what they are actually accomplishing and their ability to function on an advanced level.   My Aspie's IQ is irrelevant b/c his level of functioning is working as donation greeter at Goodwill at almost 23. (and that is a perfect match for his abilities to cope in a workplace.)  Conversely, my 18 yr old being in 200/300 level university courses when he was 16/17 was accelerated in an academically meaningful way when talking about education on an education forum.  I guess his IQ could be completely avg.   ;)  Regardless, he is accelerated and 100% without hot-housing.   :)

[Kerileanne99]

Oh wait, what was I just saying about a relatively safe place to post, lol?

 

8, I know we seem to have different philosophies as far as how to do academics with young kids. I imagine from your prospective it absolutely does look like hot housing. As I often look to your posts as a voice of reason when things feel so out of control with my kiddo I am at peace with that. I can have a lot of respect for what you have accomplished and still disagree that it would not work in our house, at this time.

 

For what it is worth, although it is something I don't usually talk about here, that are many social, emotional, and behavior issues we deal with--the reason for her testing to begin with. Both Neurospychs we used strongly suggested that we not only let her continue as she wanted, but that we provide her with the routine she wanted. Some of the biggest problems we have seen *I* actually probably imposed when last year I sent her to a primarily play-based preschool for 2 mornings per week to get her away from her books and let her play with kids her age:(

At home, sometimes I have to call it quits before she is ready because I can see her beginning to get worked up, sometimes she rings a little cowbell we put up to signal she has had enough. I can without a doubt say I never, ever thought it would get to the point it has. Some of that I think is situational:

I am in a wheelchair and am very cognizant of the fact that maybe sometimes she chooses an activity so as to include me...but more often than not these days I am not nearly as involved as I would like to be as she often is working on things without me. She still wants me to come check though:)

 

I guess my point is (and this is not directed at you) that even on this board it is very easy to look at parents of very young kids and roll your eyes at their 'accomplishments' and level of acceleration. I get it, especially as I mentioned up thread that I have NO idea what is actually normal. When other mothers are talking at say gymnastics or swimming, I have caught myself doing the same thing mentally.

 

I hope this forum remains a wonderful place to celebrate the accomplishments of our kids, no matter how small or how accelerated they seem to others or what their IQ is as my dd gets older! May it be shoe tying after years of trying or calculus at 10😄

[Heathermomster]

Heather, this is not a gifted forum.  It is the accelerated forum.   :)

 

FWIW, my kids don't have IQ test scores with the exception of our Aspie.  His composite IQ is somewhere in the 130s even with subscores in the 2nd percentile for processeing speeds.  The psy said we do not have an accurate view of his real abilities b/c his stanines are so skewed.   I don't even discuss him in terms of being accelerated b/c his level of adulthood functioning is so low.  

 

When I discuss my kids as being advanced, it is in terms of what they are actually accomplishing and their ability to function on an advanced level.   My Aspie's IQ is irrelevant b/c his level of functioning is working as donation greeter at Goodwill at almost 23. (and that is a perfect match for his abilities to cope in a workplace.)  Conversely, my 18 yr old being in 200/300 level university courses when he was 16/17 was accelerated in an academically meaningful way when talking about education on an education forum.  I guess his IQ could be completely avg.   ;)  Regardless, he is accelerated and 100% without hot-housing.   :)

Thank-you.. :D

[Erin]

Being super bright doesn't mean that a child will thrive academically or be a high achiever. Some do. Some don't. Some eventually do. Just because a child is academically two grades above doesn't impress me much and yes does make me think of hot housing and pushy parents.

 

 

I agree with the first part, but don't know that it means people are being pushy. 

I guess I just tend to think they're fortunate that they can keep their bright kid on a school-related subject long enough to accomplish something!  lol  

 

One of mine can do that.  Straight As, Quiz Bowl team, section leader in band, etc.  But the other is too lost in his own head, creating a zip line that can run the 1000 feet across our hay meadow and be strong enough to support a theoretical cat.  Or redesigning his ballista so the throwing arms don't break after a dozen uses.  

I have enough trouble keeping him on top of meals and basic hygiene!  

[8filltheheart]

Kerileanne99, 

 

I kept my response vague in my OP which was misunderstood b/c my pt was that on forums conversations spiral.  It is the nature of posting on a forum where everyone is coming from different perspectives.   And my comment about hot-housing in my later post was not directed toward you at all.  It was toward calandalsmom's hothousing remark.

 

FWIW, you are dealing with issues that are unique to your child.  I have read your posts.They definitely aren't mainstream.   ;)  My posts are in terms of kids that are neurotypical even if they are advanced. :)

[Kerileanne99]

Kerileanne99,

 

I kept my response vague in my OP which was misunderstood b/c my pt was that on forums conversations spiral. It is the nature of posting on a forum where everyone is coming from different perspectives. And my comment about hot-housing in my later post was not directed toward you at all. It was toward calandalsmom's hothousing remark.

 

FWIW, you are dealing with issues that are unique to your child. I have read your posts.They definitely aren't mainstream. ;) My posts are in terms of kids that are neurotypical even if they are advanced. :)

Thanks for the clarification:)

 

Yet another reason I live this boardðŸ˜

[Heathermomster]

 

I agree with the first part, but don't know that it means people are being pushy. 

I guess I just tend to think they're fortunate that they can keep their bright kid on a school-related subject long enough to accomplish something!  lol  

 

One of mine can do that.  Straight As, Quiz Bowl team, section leader in band, etc.  But the other is too lost in his own head, creating a zip line that can run the 1000 feet across our hay meadow and be strong enough to support a theoretical cat.  Or redesigning his ballista so the throwing arms don't break after a dozen uses.  

I have enough trouble keeping him on top of meals and basic hygiene!  

 

I love this...

[8filltheheart]

Fair point about forum name but topic seems to be about something more.

 

The psy said the same about my aspie.  He is fairly high functioning (held a job this summer as a camp counselor).

 

If you met my ds, you would assume he was very high functioning.  What he cannot do is cope, deal with undefined expectations, and high pressure issues.    Those sorts of situations cause him to shut down.  Intelligent or not, he cannot deal with real world, pretty avg expectations of employee life.

[Runningmom80]

I think the name of this board implies pushing. Accelerating, in my mind, means "made to go faster."

 

From Merriam Webster,

to gain speed. : to cause (something) to happen sooner or more quickly. ac·cel·er·at·edac·cel·er·at·ing ..

[Ad astra]

I think the name of this board implies pushing. Accelerating, in my mind, means "made to go faster."

 

From Merriam Webster,

to gain speed. : to cause (something) to happen sooner or more quickly. ac·cel·er·at·edac·cel·er·at·ing ..

I agree. It implies what we're doing is intentional. But then, "advanced" sounds like others are behind and "gifted" can raise a boundary issue or an argument that everyone's gifted in some way so...

[quark]

I have been thinking about this thoughtful post and wanted to come back to it. I hope I am not derailing the thread in some way. And I am answering based on my own experience and am interested in hearing others' thoughts too.

 

So sometimes a gift looks exactly like the gift that it is (lewelma's DS clearly being gifted in math and working long and hard to accomplish an extraordinary goal) because there is a second gift package, which is an accurate view of the primary gift, acceptance, and a positive attitude. But sometimes (I wonder if more frequently), there is a gift and little to no interest in pursuing that gift. Or maybe there is a related gift? A hidden gift? Maybe we are too linear or categorical in our thinking to even imagine it? I think we tend to pigeonhole gifts into distinct subject categories, but actual kids and attitudes are harder to pigeonhole. Regardless, there is not always a second gift package, which is a shame because I think it is the gift package that helps recognize and realize the primary gift.

For the record, I am not talking about the "everyone is gifted in some way" argument. I am talking about when there is a statistically measurable gift in an area, but the kid does nothing with it. This happens, and it makes me wonder if it is because we are defining the gift in too limited a way, in a way we can measure with tests and address with curricula.

So, for example, is ability only a gift if it is accepted as such, goals are made, and acceleration/specialization becomes the ultimate goal? Or can the gift complement other (yet unknown) interests? Can a gift simply lurk, waiting for maturity or exposure to a related field that lights a fire within the gifted? Does knowing exactly what you want to dedicate your life to from a young age and actively working toward that make a person more gifted than someone with the same potential who does not? Then is the gift the ability or is the gift the attitude of putting the nose to the grindstone and accomplishing goals? Doing it young? Doing it at all? You can have equally intelligent and capable kids with the same IQ, test scores, etc. who go in polar opposite directions. But one is recognized as gifted and (sadly) one is thought to be wasting the gift? Or one is getting support and one is not? Or one gift was recognized correctly and one was not recognized at all.

 

Denial and imposter syndrome, in my experience, are very strong factors in the recognition of gifts. I know that they have messed with my brain/ acceptance of gifts etc long enough. I think given the way one is parented can be a huge factor in how much is lost to imposter feelings and how much the gift thrives because it is suitably supported or recognized by the individual himself/herself. Within my family for example, my sibling's primary gifts were strongly supported because they were favorable to my parents and mine weren't because they were not encouraged by the community, and/or they were seen as possible disadvantages to my marriage prospects. I say this matter of factly and without self pity because I have found closure in other ways. Mine were the kind of gifts that were best developed/ supported from a young age...they were not the kind of things you do well without training from young, so they have now floundered. I think even more sadly, my parents did not recognize me as gifted because my gifts were not important enough or might have even been embarrassing to them and in conversations it is only my sibling's gifts that were highlighted. So I guess I can't help but feel that how much support, overtly or otherwise, is received from a young age is a huge help always. Positive support of course, not the overly pushy kind. in this scenario, I am also trying to answer the question about dedicating your life to something from young...I was fully ready to do it but couldn't get past the roadblocks my parents put in my way and they were not parents who could be reasoned with by a 9yo. By the time I was independent enough to do it myself, I had lost precious time.

 

Yes, I believe there can be a gift and little or no interest in pursuing it. It takes hard work. I don't think people realize this enough. It seems like the gift comes easily to the person gifted with it but in most cases that I know, the person also works very hard at it. They have to be willing to!

 

And yes, I believe a gift can definitely lurk and surface only when some sort of catalyst is present. That catalyst could be anything from a shiny new toy to a feeling of wanting to be acknowledged by someone important to that person to a host of other things. I would be very interested to know what kind of biochemistry is involved in this process. I have felt this surge of a hidden gift rising and it is such a thrill, such excitement, so fulfilling to pursue. I don't know if you guys have heard of "flow"? I've been in that situation multiple times with my specific gifts and there really is little to match the thrill, the intense passion of doing it and knowing you are really good at it, and yet, not knowing you can be this good at it just a week or month or year earlier.

 

I suspect I might not be fully understanding your questions too AVA so please feel free to correct me if needed.

[regentrude]

I think the name of this board implies pushing. Accelerating, in my mind, means "made to go faster."

 

From Merriam Webster,

to gain speed. : to cause (something) to happen sooner or more quickly. ac·cel·er·at·edac·cel·er·at·ing ..

 

No, I do not see that the name implies pushing, because accelerating does not mean that *I* am the pusher who accelerates my child. It could simply describe the child accelerating because the child learns at a  much faster speed than average.

there is nothing *I* did do intentionally to push my children to learn faster. If they learn faster, it is because they take less time to master a concept than the average student and thus are able to progress through material at a faster rate.

 

In fact, "accelerating" in the physics sense is  a very poor choice of term for the phenomenon that happens in many families: kids simply learning at a higher speed. Acceleration is an increase in speed (OK, strictly speaking, it is a change in velocity and can imply a change in direction without change in speed, which would be another interesting philosophical debate about accelerated learning, but that is off topic) . That is not necessarily the case. A kid who learns twice as fast, even at a steady rate, will progress through material in half the time and complete more courses than average. the child is not technically learning in an accelerated way, he is simply learning at a faster intrinsically determined rate than considered typical. This requires no push from the outside.

[Ad astra]

No, I do not see that the name implies pushing, because accelerating does not mean that *I* am the pusher who accelerates my child. It could simply describe the child accelerating because the child learns at a  much faster speed than average.

there is nothing *I* did do intentionally to push my children to learn faster. If they learn faster, it is because they take less time to master a concept than the average student and thus are able to progress through material at a faster rate.

 

In fact, "accelerating" in the physics sense is  a very poor choice of term for the phenomenon that happens in many families: kids simply learning at a higher speed. Acceleration is an increase in speed (OK, strictly speaking, it is a change in velocity and can imply a change in direction without change in speed, which would be another interesting philosophical debate about accelerated learning, but that is off topic) . That is not necessarily the case. A kid who learns twice as fast, even at a steady rate, will progress through material in half the time and complete more courses than average. the child is not technically learning in an accelerated way, he is simply learning at a faster intrinsically determined rate than considered typical. This requires no push from the outside.

 

Please bear with my poor English, but I'm just confused so I have to ask. Isn't there a difference between "accelerated learner" and "accelerating learner"? "Accelerated" in the "accelerated learner board" sounds like a passive form to me, which refers to an action done by someone else, not by the learner himself. That's why I got the impression that the board name implies so. 

[lewelma]

I wish I had been awake while you guys were bringing up such interesting ideas.  There are just so many things I want to respond to.

 

See, this is why I rarely post here.  What IQ score or percentage sub-test score is acceptable to post in this forum?

 

This is the most welcoming group I have ever encountered.  The overarching goal seems to be to help posters find a way to follow their kid's lead.  My kids can't do any where near what these kids do, but they can do their own special things.

 

My older boy can't go to CC like Quark's ds.  He would be scared out of his wits - he just has no interest in early college. He loves physics, but tutoring kids in physics like Regentrude's dd, no way.  He doesn't have the EQ to handle it.  Reading and writing about issues he loves like 8's kids, not a chance.  Not only can he not write easily, he just doesn't want to read anything but math textbooks.

 

But my ds can do what he does best.  He seems to be the only one on these boards with hard core goals in the math competitions. And it was members here who steered him towards this goal, and who have help me find a way to support him both in this 1 goal and as a whole person.

 

It is just not an IQ thing.  I think this board is about having no preconceived notions as to what an acceptable education is, or what is possible in young, motivated kids.
 

[Runningmom80]

Eh, I said "in my mind." It's what comes to mind when I hear the word.

 

My point was, most if not all of the terms I have at my disposal to describe the cognitive and academic inclination of my kid are words that have a certain connotation.

 

So I don't hate gifted, or any of the words, it's the attitudes I have a problem with.

[Runningmom80]

Please bear with my poor English, but I'm just confused so I have to ask. Isn't there a difference between "accelerated learner" and "accelerating learner"? "Accelerated" in the "accelerated learner board" sounds like a passive form to me, which refers to an action done by someone else, not by the learner himself. That's why I got the impression that the board name implies so.

They are different tenses. "Accelerated," would mean it already happened, which again, to ME, feels like it was an outside force. "He was accelerated."

[lewelma]

By the time I was independent enough to do it myself, I had lost precious time.

 

Geeze Quark. I'm going to wonder all day what your gift was! But seriously, :grouphug:

 

Yes, I believe there can be a gift and little or no interest in pursuing it. It takes hard work. I don't think people realize this enough. It seems like the gift comes easily to the person gifted with it but in most cases that I know, the person also works very hard at it. They have to be willing to!

I think that this is a very important point. Actually 2 points. 1) The amount of work my older boy puts in is nuts.  And it does not come easily.  He does not cry any more, but there were two 3-month periods in the past 5 years where he cried over math almost every day. 

 

2) For an all rounder, people want to support the kid in their own personal field of interest.  I have had tutors suggest my older boy do violin competitions, mandarin competitions, and even swimming competitions.  Some of them have been disappointed when my ds has not been interested.  And there has even been a hint of 'wasted talent'.  But there is just not time for everything.

 

And yes, I believe a gift can definitely lurk and surface only when some sort of catalyst is present.

 

Well that catalyst for my ds was Kathy in Richmond!  When ds is done with this gig, I need to bring her some flowers or a bottle of wine.  She actually lives only 1 mile from my sister. :001_smile:   But seriously, without her initial push, I don't know what my son's life and studies would be like today.  The butterfly effect in action!

[regentrude]

Please bear with my poor English, but I'm just confused so I have to ask. Isn't there a difference between "accelerated learner" and "accelerating learner"? "Accelerated" in the "accelerated learner board" sounds like a passive form to me, which refers to an action done by someone else, not by the learner himself. That's why I got the impression that the board name implies so. 

 

Accelerating describes the acceleration currently being in progress; accelerated can mean passive, i.e. being accelerated from the outside, but could also refer to perfect tense, i.e. having (actively) accelerated at some point. So, your interpretation may be right, but is not the only one.

 

But my point is that for many kids it really is not a question of acceleration at all , but simply of having a higher intrinsic learning speed.

[lewelma]

They are different tenses. "Accelerated," would mean it already happened, which again, to ME, feels like it was an outside force. "He was accelerated."

 

I consider accelerated in this context to be a predicate adjective.  He = accelerated. Just a descriptor.

 

I don't see it as a passive verb. He was accelerated by an agent.

 

 

[regentrude]

They are different tenses. "Accelerated," would mean it already happened, which again, to ME, feels like it was an outside force. "He was accelerated."

 

An active "He has/had accelerated" is also possible.

 

You can actively accelerate in any tense, even in the perfect, or you passively can be accelerated.

 

In the connotation of "accelerated learner", it is more used like an adjective to describe a characteristic of the learner.

 

Which, again, is simply not an accurate description of what we actually mean in many cases: a fast learner who is not technically accelerating, but simply learning faster than others and thus is ahead of the average.

 

 

[lewelma]

 

 

But my point is that for many kids it really is not a question of acceleration at all , but simply of having a higher intrinsic learning speed.

 

Very interesting point.  And I think the one that elmerRex was making on the Saxon thread.  Her (his?) kids were in Saxon 5/4 in first grade because she had started them at 3.  So from her point of view, same number of years of study, so not gifted or accelerated. 

 

I have never thought of it as a higher intrinsic learning speed.

 

[regentrude]

Very interesting point.  And I think the one that elmerRex was making on the Saxon thread.  Her (his?) kids were in Saxon 5/4 in first grade because she had started them at 3.  So from her point of view, same number of years of study, so not gifted or accelerated. 

 

I have never thought of it as a higher intrinsic learning speed.

 

That is even different - they simply started earlier, and did not work faster ( but they must obviously have possessed a higher cognitive maturity than the average kid to be able to grasp the concepts at a younger age.)

 

Some kids take less time than their class mates to "get" stuff. Which is why for these students skipping a grade is not a solution, since, once they have caught up on the material they missed due to the skip, they will still learn faster than their class mates... a scenario that is played out so often when the only accommodation offered for gifted kids is a grade skip.

 

 

 

[SeaConquest]

I wish I had been awake while you guys were bringing up such interesting ideas.  There are just so many things I want to respond to.

 

 

This is the most welcoming group I have ever encountered.  The overarching goal seems to be to help posters find a way to follow their kid's lead.  My kids can't do any where near what these kids do, but they can do their own special things.

 

My older boy can't go to CC like Quark's ds.  He would be scared out of his wits - he just has no interest in early college. He loves physics, but tutoring kids in physics like Regentrude's dd, no way.  He doesn't have the EQ to handle it.  Reading and writing about issues he loves like 8's kids, not a chance.  Not only can he not write easily, he just doesn't want to read anything but math textbooks.

 

But my ds can do what he does best.  He seems to be the only one on these boards with hard core goals in the math competitions. And it was members here who steered him towards this goal, and who have help me find a way to support him both in this 1 goal and as a whole person.

 

It is just not an IQ thing.  I think this board is about having no preconceived notions as to what an acceptable education is, or what is possible in young, motivated kids.

 

 

Liking this post was not enough. I love this board for the reasons Ruth articulated so well, and appreciate the wisdom and experience that is generously shared.

[8filltheheart]

Accelerating describes the acceleration currently being in progress; accelerated can mean passive, i.e. being accelerated from the outside, but could also refer to perfect tense, i.e. having (actively) accelerated at some point. So, your interpretation may be right, but is not the only one.

 

But my point is that for many kids it really is not a question of acceleration at all , but simply of having a higher intrinsic learning speed.

 

 

Very interesting point.  And I think the one that elmerRex was making on the Saxon thread.  Her (his?) kids were in Saxon 5/4 in first grade because she had started them at 3.  So from her point of view, same number of years of study, so not gifted or accelerated. 

 

I have never thought of it as a higher intrinsic learning speed.

 

 

That is even different - they simply started earlier, and did not work faster ( but they must obviously have possessed a higher cognitive maturity than the average kid to be able to grasp the concepts at a younger age.)

 

Some kids take less time than their class mates to "get" stuff. Which is why for these students skipping a grade is not a solution, since, once they have caught up on the material they missed due to the skip, they will still learn faster than their class mates... a scenario that is played out so often when the only accommodation offered for gifted kids is a grade skip.

 

I am really busy and didn't read many of the posts (only the short ones) and then I only skimmed, but these posts do touch on what I attempt to convey when I say that I do not accelerate my kids: they do.  It isn't even necessarily that they learn faster.   They learn differently.   Because of how we approach things, it is more critical questioning causing them to want to understand different connections than what they have been offered.   They genuinely want answers and seek them out.   Their questioning, explorations, and connections makes them land in a different spot than my avg sequential learners.  

 

I have no way of predicting where we go or how we end up there.  I can just say that massive intellectual gains are clearly evident during the process.  

 

I just is not the same as if I were doing school yr round and going through materials at a faster pace b/c they were simply consuming more information at an increased rate.

[Ad astra]

I consider accelerated in this context to be a predicate adjective.  He = accelerated. Just a descriptor.

 

 

 

In the connotation of "accelerated learner", it is more used like an adjective to describe a characteristic of the learner.

 

Which, again, is simply not an accurate description of what we actually mean in many cases: a fast learner who is not technically accelerating, but simply learning faster than others and thus is ahead of the average.

 

Aha! Thank you both for your explanation. Think I need a better dictionary than dictionary.com.  :001_smile: And I agree with your point, regentrude. The word acceleration does connote an increase in speed.

[quark]

 

Geeze Quark. I'm going to wonder all day what your gift was! But seriously, :grouphug:

[...]

Well that catalyst for my ds was Kathy in Richmond!  When ds is done with this gig, I need to bring her some flowers or a bottle of wine.  She actually lives only 1 mile from my sister. :001_smile:   But seriously, without her initial push, I don't know what my son's life and studies would be like today.  The butterfly effect in action!

Thank you Ruth and :grouphug:  back! Didn't mean to make it sound like a mystery lol...my strengths are (were?) in the arts, specifically dance.

 

Kathy is such a gift to us all. Really, without veteran moms like her and others here, my journey would have been harder. Consulting you guys here is like consulting an almost all-encompassing, out-of-box-learner 101 book. The only manual of its kind. And with so much graciousness and kindness to boot.

 

I consider accelerated in this context to be a predicate adjective.  He = accelerated. Just a descriptor.

 

I don't see it as a passive verb. He was accelerated by an agent.

 

 

An active "He has/had accelerated" is also possible.

 

You can actively accelerate in any tense, even in the perfect, or you passively can be accelerated.

 

In the connotation of "accelerated learner", it is more used like an adjective to describe a characteristic of the learner.

 

 

(giggle) Only here would we have conversations like these. :laugh:

 

(edited)

[quark]

deleted for privacy

[slackermom]

Aha! Thank you both for your explanation. Think I need a better dictionary than dictionary.com. :001_smile: And I agree with your point, regentrude. The word acceleration does connote an increase in speed.

Yes, the somewhat more acceptable term in my town is "fast learner."

[Butler]

Some kids take less time than their class mates to "get" stuff. Which is why for these students skipping a grade is not a solution, since, once they have caught up on the material they missed due to the skip, they will still learn faster than their class mates... a scenario that is played out so often when the only accommodation offered for gifted kids is a grade skip.

Yes, but grade skips do work well as stepping stones to further acceleration.

 

(edited due to TMI)

 

A single grade skip alone is pretty useless, but as part of an overall plan they are invaluable (IMO, of course).

[maize]

I wish I had been awake while you guys were bringing up such interesting ideas. There are just so many things I want to respond to.

 

 

This is the most welcoming group I have ever encountered. The overarching goal seems to be to help posters find a way to follow their kid's lead. My kids can't do any where near what these kids do, but they can do their own special things.

 

My older boy can't go to CC like Quark's ds. He would be scared out of his wits - he just has no interest in early college. He loves physics, but tutoring kids in physics like Regentrude's dd, no way. He doesn't have the EQ to handle it. Reading and writing about issues he loves like 8's kids, not a chance. Not only can he not write easily, he just doesn't want to read anything but math textbooks.

 

But my ds can do what he does best. He seems to be the only one on these boards with hard core goals in the math competitions. And it was members here who steered him towards this goal, and who have help me find a way to support him both in this 1 goal and as a whole person.

 

It is just not an IQ thing. I think this board is about having no preconceived notions as to what an acceptable education is, or what is possible in young, motivated kids.

 

Thank you for this post--it made me think that perhaps I am not out of place on this board after all.

 

My kids, at this point, are not particularly accelerated in anything. I have no evidence that they have exceptional IQ's. But they are unusual kids; I was an unusual kid, and traditional school was a poor fit for me. I craved a different path, both deeper and less structured. I liked to think, to read, to figure things out. I felt both stifled and overwhelmed by school.

 

For my own children, I want something that is not a box; I want to give them room, give them the opportunity, to discover their own wings and to fly. I see people on this board who are doing that, who are supporting and mentoring their children as they develop their interests and abilities whether that leads them to pursue math, music, writing, or snakes! I'm inspired when I come here.

[lewelma]

Thank you for this post--it made me think that perhaps I am not out of place on this board after all.

 

My kids, at this point, are not particularly accelerated in anything. I have no evidence that they have exceptional IQ's. But they are unusual kids; I was an unusual kid, and traditional school was a poor fit for me. I craved a different path, both deeper and less structured. I liked to think, to read, to figure things out. I felt both stifled and overwhelmed by school.

 

For my own children, I want something that is not a box; I want to give them room, give them the opportunity, to discover their own wings and to fly. I see people on this board who are doing that, who are supporting and mentoring their children as they develop their interests and abilities whether that leads them to pursue math, music, writing, or snakes! I'm inspired when I come here.

 

You are definitely not out of place here. My younger is not particularly accelerated in anything and I still post here about him because people here are willing to come up with creative solutions to difficult problems.

 

My younger's greatest gift is his charisma.  People comment on it all the time.  I even had a dad once say to me 'if both our kids were drowning, I would push my kid out of the way to save yours.' :huh: How do you respond to that?  And I know that when I need advice about this boy, most likely on an issue that has nothing to do with academics, that the members here will come up with solutions that I would never ever have dreamed of.

 

The biggest thing we need here are open minds. And yours is clearly open!

 

[Dicentra]

I think I've only ever posted a few times in this subforum but I lurk a lot. :)  I felt as though I wanted to jump in on this thread - I hope that's OK.

 

I've always thought that "gifted" referred to individuals whose mental processing speeds were simply faster than the average - it's an innate wiring difference in the brain of gifted individuals. Achievement levels (whether that be academic, social, emotional, athletic, etc.) aren't the deciding factor - processing speed is.  Granted, processing speed is difficult to measure so we tend to use achievement output (grades, test scores, psych evaluations, etc.) as a way to make an educated guess at what the individual's processing speed might be.  It's an imperfect way of going about identifying gifted individuals, that's for certain.  There are so many factors that can skew achievement output and reduce the correlation between the output measured and the actual mental processing speed of the individual.

 

My understanding of giftedness (faster mental processing speeds) fits well with the idea that giftedness isn't something that one grows out of.  If giftedness was something based on achieving, say, two grades ahead on an evaluation then once the individual reached adulthood, the definition would no longer have any meaning.  I think this is an important point to make to our gifted youngsters - they will ALWAYS be gifted - it's not something they grow out of as adults.  They will always have quicker mental processing speeds than the average and that's OK - everyone's brain is wired differently.

 

Just my thoughts, though.  Feel free to agree or disagree at will. :D

 

ETA:  This faster processing speed doesn't necessarily occur in the same areas of the brain for all gifted individuals.  That's why we can have gifted individuals who are gifted at math (faster at seeing and recognizing patterns), gifted in languages (faster at relating and comparing structures of languages), gifted socially (faster at reading and processing social clues and signals), etc.  For all, the common factor is the increased mental processing speed.

[a27mom]

And then I come sulking back to this board with my tail between my legs.  Thanks to all you lovely folks for understanding me and mine, and making us feel normal.

 

 

I have found the discussion in this thread fascinating in all it's twists and turns.

 

I think what makes me really appreciate this board, comes down to the above quote. We feel normal here. Not because we are the same, our experiences, challenges, gifts, and kids can often be drastically different. But because here it is just fine to be drastically different. There is commonality in uniqueness.

 

I have one child who isn't particularly "accelerated" but makes unconventional leaps and connections. This board has been so helpful with creative approaches and making it feel normal, or doable anyway. My other child is "accelerated" and has focused passions. So, I find this board both calming and inspiring.

 

In general I don't feel the need to define my kids' giftedness to be here. And I don't think we all have to be here for the same reason. So I do find it very welcoming here. :)

[Pegs]

Thank you for this post--it made me think that perhaps I am not out of place on this board after all.

 

My kids, at this point, are not particularly accelerated in anything. I have no evidence that they have exceptional IQ's. But they are unusual kids; I was an unusual kid, and traditional school was a poor fit for me. I craved a different path, both deeper and less structured. I liked to think, to read, to figure things out. I felt both stifled and overwhelmed by school.

 

For my own children, I want something that is not a box; I want to give them room, give them the opportunity, to discover their own wings and to fly. I see people on this board who are doing that, who are supporting and mentoring their children as they develop their interests and abilities whether that leads them to pursue math, music, writing, or snakes! I'm inspired when I come here.

My child is still very young, and apart from an amazing memory, and just generally being quick to pick up new concepts, hasn't really demonstrated much that would indicate that he'd be likely to test as gifted or otherwise neurodiverse. But yes, he's unusual. And something draws me to this board as though it will, at some point in the future, be the most appropriate space for me to brainstorm creative ways to support his learning, as lewelma mentioned in reference to her younger DS.

 

I also enjoy reading along here to see how parents are supporting children with needs and challenges similar to what I experienced at school. It's just comforting, I suppose. Normalising? :)

 

Having imposter issues and posting before I chicken out!

[maize]

Funny, quirky kids indeed.

 

DD11 just came in to tell me proudly that she got dd6 to sleep (often a problematic undertaking)...by reading to her from the OED.

*ROFL