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Talk to me about your Science approach


sweetpea3829
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I'm not loving my current science approach, and I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with it, other than I feel like my kids aren't really LEARNING anything from it.  

 

So tell me about your approach to science.  Not just curriculum, but your overall approach.  Are you following TWTM four year classical rotation?  If so, what does that look like for you?  If not, how are you covering the different fields of science, and what are your future plans for elementary, middle and high school?

 

 

I was thinking today (during church....BAD homeschool mommy) about my science approach.  I was thinking about dividing it into three subject areas...

 

biology (life sciences including anatomy, zoology, botany), covered in 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th.

 

earth sciences (including geology, meteorology, oceanology, astronomy) covered in 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 11th

 

physical sciences (chemistry and physics) covered in 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th

 

 

Is there a curriculum that does this?  

 

So far, we've been using Apologia and...I mean, science is "getting done" but it's just not quite what I am looking for.  We don't have much time for experiments and honestly, most of the Apologia text is too meaty for my 2nd and 3rd graders.  They're never going to remember the content that they're being exposed to.  So we focus on certain key points and do a few lapbook elements, most of which I created myself.  I check out a bunch of books from the library that correspond to the material they are reading about in the text book and call it a day.  I don't think they're really learning much at all.  

 

 

I have RS4K pre-level 1 on my shelves, but when I first looked at it a couple of years ago, I found it too light.  Now, I'm thinking about pulling it out and taking another look at it.  

 

 

What else is out there?  

 

 

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Before high school, we do interest led science with library books. lots of field trips, nature centers, museums. We are not using any formal curriculum.

 

 

How does that impact your children as far as standardized testing is concerned?  We are required to test in 4th, 6th, and 8th (or 5th and 7th).  

 

And what are your plans for high school science?  

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We do interest-led within a rotation.  So, next year we are covering Anatomy semester 1 and Botony semester 2 but within those guidelines things will be interest-led.  

 

Last year was an entire YEAR of Zoology, which I will never regret.  It's a perfect subject for a 4 and 5 year old.  We watched lots of animal documentaries, checked out books at the library, visited a zoo, an aquarium, and a wildlife refuge, and did the occasional experiment but I'll admit not too many. We watched a tadpole and a butterfly life-cycle, built a bat house per directions my son found, built a beaver dam (and river) in our backyard, and did the blubber in a bag thing, I cant remember anything else but I may be missing something.  We ended up spending LOTS of time on coral reefs, the deep ocean, camouflage, burrowing animals, the relationship between birds and dinosaurs, and food chains, because those were the things that peaked their interest. 

 

I'm not much of a free-wheeler but at young ages I do think interest-led with lots of books is a great way to go in the Sciences.  And the rotation relieves me about "holes".  They are really too young (IMO) to do much in the way of experiments, it ends up being more of a presentation done by mom for "wow" factor.  But following rabbit trails is an important scientific habit, and since its THEIR rabbit trail they tend to retain.

 

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We approach science through inquiry here, especially in the early years. My favorite book is Nurturing Inquiry: Real Science for the Elementary Classroom. It had been my inspiration since we began.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nurturing-Inquiry-Science-Elementary-Classroom/dp/0325001359/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391227128&sr=8-1&keywords=Nurturing+inquiry

 

I am not in a testing state, but I have tested my kids just for the experience. Their scores are quite high, which I believe is a product of retaining material due to inherent interest and the way interest led inquiry science here has tended to spiral them through the disciplines, building knowledge on top of knowledge.

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Funny enough...I would have to say our "real" science has informally been interest-led.  While we've done the formal Apologia, aside from that, we've done the tadpoles, the monarch metamorphosis, we keep a pet snake, we breed and raise chickens, we explore lots and lots of birds, bugs, wild flowers, etc etc etc all on our property.  

 

Today, my husband cut rocks open for them, using his tile saw.  

 

So for now, that's all well and good.  But what's going to happen when they (the oldest two) have to sit for their standardized tests in another two years?  How do you quantify the informal learning they've done?  

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The truth for me was that even all my AP science in high school never really prepared me for or was necessary for my college level science.  My philosophy is that learning to understand and use the scientific method is the most important thing I can teach my son about science.  So we focus on just the basics with science facts along with lots of labs and activities to make it fun, and spend most of our energy on applying the scientific method to our labs.  

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We follow the WTM science recommendations. I usually plan for the whole year similar to the SOTW activity guides. I use the recommended books as my spine then plan extra reading that we have on hand, library books, experiments, supply list, video links, etc. This is for elementary only because, to me, elementary is about expose and building a love for discovery and science and I think WTM outline is agar appropriate and does a good job that. My kids, one in particular, loves anything math and science and this plan has worked out well even for her.

 

BTW I think it's bio in 1st, 5th, and 9th and the rest fowling that pattern a year later. You forgot chem.

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I've used a variety of programs but always come back to actual textbook based science. Ds is talking science careers, possibly medical, so I feel the need to prepare him for more rigorous studies in science and applying himself to learn material for testing purposes. We are Christians and lean toward a much younger earth. My plan is to use BJU dvd/online for middle school and possibly high school. Mrs. Vick is the teacher for all the middle school courses, and she is excellent. I don't feel hands on is crucial at this stage of the game, and honestly, I don't think you learn that much in high school from hands on science. I will make sure ds does some labs because he needs to know how to do them, though. 

 

 

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[quote name="Sweetpea3829" post="5817226" timestamp=

 

So for now, that's all well and good. But what's going to happen when they (the oldest two) have to sit for their standardized tests in another two years? How do you quantify the informal learning they've done?

 

I do not know about your state, but I have yet to see any science sections of testing that ask for content. Most all want general analysis. Most give the kids a paragraph, a chart, a sample experiment with a few hypothesis and outcomes, that sort of thing. Be sure to hit general scientific method, as that is pretty specific everywhere, but for all classes before high school there is no standard curriculum. Even common core is not subject specific in terms of 2nd grade butterflies, 5th grade weather, 6th grade magnetism, or the like.

 

All your kids need to do is explore thinking, reasoning, wondering. Library books they pick out themselves, NetFlix documentaries, and field trips along with a whole lot of dirt will prepare them better than anything else.

 

Secondly, and this is not meant rudely at all, but Apologia will certainly not prepare them for secular public school science content. That is not a slam. You can see in my signature that I use Apologia with my son. It is not bad curriculum. However, the content is polar opposite to public curriculum. If you are worried about test prep, you need to drop that one right away.

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How do you quantify the informal learning they've done?

As the kids have followed their interests, I have tracked them. I have a book called The Really Useful Science Book, which I use to get an idea of what they have covered relative to the vast scope of all there is to cover. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how much content your kids hit informally. For what they don't hit before I feel they ought, or when at times they are about to move on without having reached quite as deep as I think they need to go, I bring up a question or an idea, or I strew resources to draw them in.

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Really-Useful-Science-Book/dp/0415385938/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

 

Kathryn Stout has a similar, less technical resource called Science Scope. http://www.amazon.com/Science-Scope-Kathryn-Stout/dp/189197503X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406521646&sr=8-1&keywords=Science+scope

 

Also, you could look at something like Creek Edge Press Task Cards, which allow for student led work, research, and projects within a set scope and sequence. To encourage inquiry, you could add on to that idea with instructions to independently pursue a related topic, develop a research or testable question based on what they have learned, etc.

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I use BFSU which covers all 4 sections in one book - I know if tried to do a 4 year rotation that certain sections would be sadly neglected as I prefer biology and know more about it than the other sections - naturally my kids and I move there automatically. I also find that because this is so I would have a hard time spending a whole year on physical sciences. I have also found it easier using BFSU to link the sciences together more easily since science is really just about life after all.

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We are not following TWTM rotation.  We tried that for first grade and found that we prefer more variety in our studies.  My children love science. They like to read science books and engage in science-themed play and exploration.  They participate in homeschool classes at a science museum (monthly), zoo (monthly), and metro parks (occasional).

 

Formally,

K Ă¢â‚¬â€œ topics of interest (mostly LetĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Read and Find Out Science series)

1st grade Ă¢â‚¬â€œ Mr. QĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Life Sciences, heavily supplemented  [This resource was not a good fit for my children.]

2nd grade/K Ă¢â‚¬â€œ Ellen McHenryĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Chemistry (loved!) and LEGO EducationĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Simple and Motorized Mechanisms  [These resources were a much better fit.]

3rd grade/1st  Ă¢â‚¬â€œ Astronomy, Earth Sciences, and Evolutionary Science Ă¢â‚¬â€œ using a variety of resources  [This year is tailored to my childrenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s interests in astronomy and dinosaurs.]

 

4th grade/2nd Â Ă¢â‚¬â€œ Ellen McHenryĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Botany, Robotics, and one other topic not yet determined [Topics I think will interest my children because we seem to have already covered the topics usually introduced in k-4.]

5th-8th Grades/3rd -6th grades Ă¢â‚¬â€œ My current plan is 3 or 4 topics per year Ă¢â‚¬â€œ one topic chosen by each child, the remainder selected to fill any glaring Ă¢â‚¬Ëœholes.Ă¢â‚¬â„¢Â Â  I may revert to my original plan of the Story of Science. 

High school science Ă¢â‚¬â€œ most likely will be outsourced.

 

I am not worried about standardized testing in science. In the elementary and middle grades test samples I have seen, the science sections were either so basic that children with general life experience can easily determine the correct answers or were testing the childĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s ability to interpret graphs, charts, and presented materials.   Our math and language arts programs teach these skills.    

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We've done unit studies (like the Magic School Bus one in my signature - for my current 1st grader) and nature studies to cover topics pretty much until the child is ready for high-school science books.  I've used RS4K and like it, but it was too costly to continue using it.  I'm also using Ellen McHenry studies.  Also, some of my kids also explore science topics in their free time because they love science.  My creative kid has loved creative science challenges and he is using a bunch of engineering modules this year.

 

Also, I tend to stick with secular resources for science time.  We do use some Christian resources on science, but they are used more like a Bible study.  One or more of my kids may have a future in a science field so I feel it is very important to teach science from secular resources.

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I've used a variety of programs but always come back to actual textbook based science. Ds is talking science careers, possibly medical, so I feel the need to prepare him for more rigorous studies in science and applying himself to learn material for testing purposes. We are Christians and lean toward a much younger earth. My plan is to use BJU dvd/online for middle school and possibly high school. Mrs. Vick is the teacher for all the middle school courses, and she is excellent. I don't feel hands on is crucial at this stage of the game, and honestly, I don't think you learn that much in high school from hands on science. I will make sure ds does some labs because he needs to know how to do them, though. 

 

And this is kind of where I am too.  My 7 yr old has been talking about one science career or another since he was 3 yrs old (mostly medicine-related, but now he's saying he wants to be an engineer of some sort or another).  So the science is kind of important.  

 

 

I do not know about your state, but I have yet to see any science sections of testing that ask for content. Most all want general analysis. Most give the kids a paragraph, a chart, a sample experiment with a few hypothesis and outcomes, that sort of thing. Be sure to hit general scientific method, as that is pretty specific everywhere, but for all classes before high school there is no standard curriculum. Even common core is not subject specific in terms of 2nd grade butterflies, 5th grade weather, 6th grade magnetism, or the like.

 

All your kids need to do is explore thinking, reasoning, wondering. Library books they pick out themselves, NetFlix documentaries, and field trips along with a whole lot of dirt will prepare them better than anything else.

 

Secondly, and this is not meant rudely at all, but Apologia will certainly not prepare them for secular public school science content. That is not a slam. You can see in my signature that I use Apologia with my son. It is not bad curriculum. However, the content is polar opposite to public curriculum. If you are worried about test prep, you need to drop that one right away.

 

I agree...and that's part of my problem here.  I invested a lot of money into all of the lower level Apologia books but...I'm just not feeling it.  

 

 

We've done unit studies (like the Magic School Bus one in my signature - for my current 1st grader) and nature studies to cover topics pretty much until the child is ready for high-school science books.  I've used RS4K and like it, but it was too costly to continue using it.  I'm also using Ellen McHenry studies.  Also, some of my kids also explore science topics in their free time because they love science.  My creative kid has loved creative science challenges and he is using a bunch of engineering modules this year.

 

Also, I tend to stick with secular resources for science time.  We do use some Christian resources on science, but they are used more like a Bible study.  One or more of my kids may have a future in a science field so I feel it is very important to teach science from secular resources.

 

Yes, I agree here.  We ARE Christians and believe in a Young Earth view, but there's just something about the way Apologia has presented information.  Quite honestly, I find MYSELF a lot of times thinking, "Really?  That's your argument?"  

 

I'm going to take a look at BFSU.  I'm also looking at Layers of Learning.  

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I've used both elemental science, sonlight science, and R.E.A.L. Science Oddyssey.  I do the same thing when I teach all of them....

 

1)  We read REAL books (NOT textbooks).   I use whatever science program we are using....THEN I try to find really good, 'living', books about the topic.    I read aloud from these books to the kids twice a week.    My kids enjoy this and seem to retain a lot of information this way.   Are they going to remember EVERY fact of EVERY book I read to them?  No, they remember things that are especially interesting to them...and it helps expose them to the concepts.  For grammar stage work...that is enough for me.   Afterwards, I ask a few basic comprehension questions to see if they were paying attention.   ETA:  I try to do this in a sneaky way.  Like, "Wow, did you know that?  I just learned something new."  Or, "Tell me what you thought was most interesting about what we read?" 

2)  Fun labs....that actually WORK and teach true science.   My daughter learns more by doing.  So once a week we do a project in science.  On project day we usually try to do one or two labs.  And I try to be picky about what labs we spend our time doing.  And I don't like lab books where the experiments never work.  That is so disappointing for the kids! 
  One of my favorite parts about sonlight science was that they packaged a DVD with their science curriculum that shows every single lab being done.  I think that was genius and wish more science vendors would do this.  (Are you listening science vendors??!!  ;)  )    The Sonlight DVD also has some guy explaining the science behind the experiment as he demos it.  This was great for a number of reasons:  1)  watching the dvd made them really excited to try it for themselves, 2)  if our experiment didn't work, we could at least see what is was SUPPOSE to do ;), 3)  The dvd allowed them to work more independently on their labs since they could see proper technique being demostrated.  4)  We could troubleshoot our lab more easily after watching one that worked correctly.    My second favorite labs/projects have been in the R.E.A.L. Science odyssey program.  They are a lot of fun, and seem to work!

3)  Memory Work:  NOT particularly fun.....but memory work is really where a lot of grammar stage learning happens IMHO.  It is so important because it helps solidify all of the various facts that we read about in books or talk about in labs for the kids.   Otherwise they quickly become a jumbled mush in their heads.  Memory work helps them organize the information they are hearing and seeing.  It gives them a single memory peg to hang the information on.  It also gives the kids those wonderful 'aha!' moments that I long for!!   For example, I might have them memorize the four kinds of volcanoes....and then when we read a book on volcanoes, they get so excited when they hear those terms mentioned.  And they retain so much more information.  We are not involved in a classical conversations community, but I do use *some* of their science sentences for memory work.  We put them to song, and review them often.  (You tube has lots of song ideas.) 

----------

 

Also, sort of OT...but can I give you some advice about your science rotation?  (Feel free to toss it out the window if you don't agree.)  

 

I just want to say that I think it is very possible to combine chemistry and physics into one year in the grammar stage...and possibly even in the logic stage.  The reason being, you really need a higher level understanding of math in order to really study these subjects.  So in the grammar stage, you could do a quick run through exposing them to some terminology and concepts....but you aren't really going to be able to teach them *true* physics and chemistry until their math level catches up. 

 

HOWEVER, once they get into highschool, you might want to consider devoting a whole year to the study of chemistry.  And another year to the study of physics.  By this time, their math skills should be advanced enough to delve much deeper into these two subject areas....and I personally feel that it would be almost impossible to squeeze what they need to learn into a half year.   Plus, I don't think a half-a-year of chemistry or physics will adequately prepare them for college. 

 

Just a thought.  feel free to ignore.  :)

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I've used both elemental science, sonlight science, and R.E.A.L. Science Oddyssey.  I do the same thing when I teach all of them....

 

1)  We read REAL books (NOT textbooks).   I use whatever science program we are using....THEN I try to find really good, 'living', books about the topic.    I read aloud from these books to the kids twice a week.    My kids enjoy this and seem to retain a lot of information this way.   Are they going to remember EVERY fact of EVERY book I read to them?  No, they remember things that are especially interesting to them...and it helps expose them to the concepts.  For grammar stage work...that is enough for me.   Afterwards, I ask a few basic comprehension questions to see if they were paying attention.   ETA:  I try to do this in a sneaky way.  Like, "Wow, did you know that?  I just learned something new."  Or, "Tell me what you thought was most interesting about what we read?" 

2)  Fun labs....that actually WORK and teach true science.   My daughter learns more by doing.  So once a week we do a project in science.  On project day we usually try to do one or two labs.  And I try to be picky about what labs we spend our time doing.  And I don't like lab books where the experiments never work.  That is so disappointing for the kids! 

  One of my favorite parts about sonlight science was that they packaged a DVD with their science curriculum that shows every single lab being done.  I think that was genius and wish more science vendors would do this.  (Are you listening science vendors??!!  ;)  )    The Sonlight DVD also has some guy explaining the science behind the experiment as he demos it.  This was great for a number of reasons:  1)  watching the dvd made them really excited to try it for themselves, 2)  if our experiment didn't work, we could at least see what is was SUPPOSE to do ;), 3)  The dvd allowed them to work more independently on their labs since they could see proper technique being demostrated.  4)  We could troubleshoot our lab more easily after watching one that worked correctly.    My second favorite labs/projects have been in the R.E.A.L. Science odyssey program.  They are a lot of fun, and seem to work!

3)  Memory Work:  NOT particularly fun.....but memory work is really where a lot of grammar stage learning happens IMHO.  It is so important because it helps solidify all of the various facts that we read about in books or talk about in labs for the kids.   Otherwise they quickly become a jumbled mush in their heads.  Memory work helps them organize the information they are hearing and seeing.  It gives them a single memory peg to hang the information on.  It also gives the kids those wonderful 'aha!' moments that I long for!!   For example, I might have them memorize the four kinds of volcanoes....and then when we read a book on volcanoes, they get so excited when they hear those terms mentioned.  And they retain so much more information.  We are not involved in a classical conversations community, but I do use *some* of their science sentences for memory work.  We put them to song, and review them often.  (You tube has lots of song ideas.) 

----------

 

Also, sort of OT...but can I give you some advice about your science rotation?  (Feel free to toss it out the window if you don't agree.)  

 

I just want to say that I think it is very possible to combine chemistry and physics into one year in the grammar stage...and possibly even in the logic stage.  The reason being, you really need a higher level understanding of math in order to really study these subjects.  So in the grammar stage, you could do a quick run through exposing them to some terminology and concepts....but you aren't really going to be able to teach them *true* physics and chemistry until their math level catches up. 

 

HOWEVER, once they get into highschool, you might want to consider devoting a whole year to the study of chemistry.  And another year to the study of physics.  By this time, their math skills should be advanced enough to delve much deeper into these two subject areas....and I personally feel that it would be almost impossible to squeeze what they need to learn into a half year.   Plus, I don't think a half-a-year of chemistry or physics will adequately prepare them for college. 

 

Just a thought.  feel free to ignore.  :)

 

Actually, this was kind of perplexing me when I sat down and thought of a rotation, lol.  I really like things to "fit" kwim?  But I also know how difficult chem and physics are and I agree that they should really have an entire year to each subject in high school.  

 

I'll have to re-evaluate when we get closer to the high school years.  I think it would be fine to combine life sciences and earth sciences during, say, sophomore year, so junior year could be for physics and senior year for chem.  

 

I may end up outsourcing them for physics and chem, TBH.  They were NOT strong subjects for me.  I was a much better Life and Earth Sciences student.  

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Lewelma (Ruth in NZ) has lots of super posts about science and is very good at helping people think through a plan which works for their particular family and circumstances.

 

We use mostly library books and I let my kids have a say in what we study formally. We do lots of nature study and random rabbit trails, following whatever their interests and the seasons lead us to.

I don't do well with weekly "experiments" that are mostly demos. Too busy for our routine.

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And this is kind of where I am too.  My 7 yr old has been talking about one science career or another since he was 3 yrs old (mostly medicine-related, but now he's saying he wants to be an engineer of some sort or another).  So the science is kind of important.  

 

 

 

I agree...and that's part of my problem here.  I invested a lot of money into all of the lower level Apologia books but...I'm just not feeling it.  

 

 

 

Yes, I agree here.  We ARE Christians and believe in a Young Earth view, but there's just something about the way Apologia has presented information.  Quite honestly, I find MYSELF a lot of times thinking, "Really?  That's your argument?"  

 

I'm going to take a look at BFSU.  I'm also looking at Layers of Learning.  

 

When I have tried to use more 'real' and 'living' approaches, my kids never retain as much as when I'm using a textbook. I think they get distracted by the stories and commentary instead of what they really need to know. 

 

My experience with Apologia was only one book. Ds and I both hated it, and he is so happy I'm going back to a textbook next year. 

 

BJU is excellent. I chose to use ABeka's 4th grade book because of the topics in it, and ds really enjoyed it. I don't know about their other courses, though.

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I'm not loving my current science approach, and I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with it, other than I feel like my kids aren't really LEARNING anything from it. 

The first thing you should do is identify what learning looks like for *your* kids.  Specifically, what do you see when you say to yourself 'wow, that was great.'  The answer to that questions should strongly influence your future plans.

 

Next, you need to find out exactly what is on the standardized tests so that you don't over- or under-adapt to your testing situation.

 

If you're interested, I'm happy to help you figure out your long term plan and short term objectives.  Over the years, I have kept track of quite a few question and answer sessions with other hive members where I helped them plan their science studies. Often seeing *how* others have laid out their plans and *why*, can be very informative.  So if you have a chance, give them a read.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/512190-science-posts-organized-by-topic/

 

Ruth in NZ

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We have not followed TWTM recs.  For K-2 (oldest DD) we have mainly done interest-led; lots of library books, dvds, magazines, projects,  and a few workbooks that cover all the branches, not just Bio or Chem or Phys.

 

Now that youngest is in first, we're picking up a "formal" science program (Dr. Wile's series).  I just liked the idea of combining them and having something laid out for me for the next several years.  I like that the science is in some sort of context (relation to the days of creation, or the time in history when certain discoveries were made).  

 

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How does that impact your children as far as standardized testing is concerned?  We are required to test in 4th, 6th, and 8th (or 5th and 7th).  

 

And what are your plans for high school science?  

 

we have no testing requirement. Does your required testing include science?

 

In high school, we do systematic studies using college textbooks, beginning with Physics in 9th grade.

 

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Science Matters and the philosophy of the Amish has been what has affected me the most. I tried textbooks with my gifted child for early high school, but abandoned them. The cumulative chapters were just too much work for too little payback and were distracting from more important things.

 

The New Layers of Learning curriculum quotes the author of Science Matters and The Joy of Science, and also seems to be quoting an Amish/Mennonite source as well. I bought year one even though I couldn't afford it, because I wanted to see how they carried out what they claimed as their philosophy. Wouldn't you know I have found money twice this month that covered the purchase. :) Such is my weird life. So far I like and have high hopes I'm going to like LoL science.

 

Science tests usually test the ability to READ and understand a science article, but not actual content. See if you can find a GED prep workbook and take a look at a practice test. I think the GED science tests are pretty typical of other standardized science tests.

 

At least at the junior college level, students need to to know how to READ and do MATH, to succeed in science classes and being able to confidently and quickly do a basic research paper is a real plus.Most students cannot do this, though, and a student will not fail because of weak research paper skills.

 

If junior college students are taking science classes meant for transfer to a 4 year college instead of a 2 year in-house degree, they will need a bit of practice with the scientific method. My preference is the Mr. Q ESP labs.

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Science Matters and the philosophy of the Amish has been what has affected me the most. I tried textbooks with my gifted child for early high school, but abandoned them. The cumulative chapters were just too much work for too little payback and were distracting from more important things.

 

The New Layers of Learning curriculum quotes the author of Science Matters and The Joy of Science, and also seems to be quoting an Amish/Mennonite source as well. I bought year one even though I couldn't afford it, because I wanted to see how they carried out what they claimed as their philosophy. Wouldn't you know I have found money twice this month that covered the purchase. :) Such is my weird life. So far I like and have high hopes I'm going to like LoL science.

 

Science tests usually test the ability to READ and understand a science article, but not actual content. See if you can find a GED prep workbook and take a look at a practice test. I think the GED science tests are pretty typical of other standardized science tests.

 

At least at the junior college level, students need to to know how to READ and do MATH, to succeed in science classes and being able to confidently and quickly do a basic research paper is a real plus.Most students cannot do this, though, and a student will not fail because of weak research paper skills.

 

If junior college students are taking science classes meant for transfer to a 4 year college instead of a 2 year in-house degree, they will need a bit of practice with the scientific method. My preference is the Mr. Q ESP labs.

 

And you know what, Hunter?  That's more or less what's been sticking in my craw lately.  Apologia is SO focused on a specific topic and I just don't think that's necessary at this stage...or really even any stage until they are choosing a career and NEED to focus on a specific content area.  

 

But when I stop and think about it...isn't the whole goal of science instruction to teach our students HOW to learn about scientific content areas?  Surely, there are specific things that we do want to teach them, specific to certain content areas.  But overall, I'm sitting here with my two 3rd graders having them read a textbook about flying creatures and I'm asking MYSELF, when will they actually use the content they are learning in Apologia?  And the fact is...much of it is SO specific, unless they choose careers in a specific field, they WON'T likely use much of what they're currently learning.  And besides, they're retaining very little of it anyways!  

 

So I think...for the elementary years at least, I'm looking for more of an overview of science topics, with instruction in the scientific method, and learning how to read about a topic, glean important information and then present that information.  At the same time, I would like to be able to follow the kids' interests.  The problem with that is that it can be a bit difficult to accommodate the interests of a 5, 6, 7 and 8 yr old all at the same time...when all of them are interested in something different.  

 

I did print out the free unit of LoL and scanned it quickly.  It reminds me very much of ToG, of which I purchased the first year and was never really able to implement.   ToG just didn't work for us at that time, though I would like to try it again when my kids were older.  But LoL doesn't seem quite as overwhelming as ToG.  

 

I'll have to see about printing it out, as pdf type curricula like that really don't work well for me.  

 

  

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The first thing you should do is identify what learning looks like for *your* kids.  Specifically, what do you see when you say to yourself 'wow, that was great.'  The answer to that questions should strongly influence your future plans.

 

Next, you need to find out exactly what is on the standardized tests so that you don't over- or under-adapt to your testing situation.

 

If you're interested, I'm happy to help you figure out your long term plan and short term objectives.  Over the years, I have kept track of quite a few question and answer sessions with other hive members where I helped them plan their science studies. Often seeing *how* others have laid out their plans and *why*, can be very informative.  So if you have a chance, give them a read.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/512190-science-posts-organized-by-topic/

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Thank-you for sharing, Ruth.  I will take a look at the link.  :-)  Any help I can get is much appreciated, lol.  

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I tried BFSU.  I really really liked the idea, but it was just too much work for me to put it all together.  Last year, we used CK12 life science for dd1 in 6th grade, and dd2 & 3 followed that sequence with library books.  We did an activity or experiment here and there.  We are basically following the 3 year cycle that you laid out... Life science, earth science, and physical science.  I am terrible about following a schedule, though, so all we got to last year was botany, zoology, and cell/genetics.  We're doing the human body to finish life science this year, and then move on to geology, meterology, and ecology this year for earth science.  Next year, we'll do astronomy, chemisty, and physics as a physical science year.  I'm sure that this year will run into next and so forth and so on, though. 

 

We're going to give the Intelligo unit studies a try this year as our spine, and our book list comes from Book Shark.  The girls requested more activites so I am hoping this will help that and maybe, it will help keep us on track a little better.

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And you know what, Hunter? That's more or less what's been sticking in my craw lately. Apologia is SO focused on a specific topic and I just don't think that's necessary at this stage...or really even any stage until they are choosing a career and NEED to focus on a specific content area.

 

But when I stop and think about it...isn't the whole goal of science instruction to teach our students HOW to learn about scientific content areas? Surely, there are specific things that we do want to teach them, specific to certain content areas. But overall, I'm sitting here with my two 3rd graders having them read a textbook about flying creatures and I'm asking MYSELF, when will they actually use the content they are learning in Apologia? And the fact is...much of it is SO specific, unless they choose careers in a specific field, they WON'T likely use much of what they're currently learning. And besides, they're retaining very little of it anyways!

 

So I think...for the elementary years at least, I'm looking for more of an overview of science topics, with instruction in the scientific method, and learning how to read about a topic, glean important information and then present that information. At the same time, I would like to be able to follow the kids' interests. The problem with that is that it can be a bit difficult to accommodate the interests of a 5, 6, 7 and 8 yr old all at the same time...when all of them are interested in something different.

 

I did print out the free unit of LoL and scanned it quickly. It reminds me very much of ToG, of which I purchased the first year and was never really able to implement. ToG just didn't work for us at that time, though I would like to try it again when my kids were older. But LoL doesn't seem quite as overwhelming as ToG.

 

I'll have to see about printing it out, as pdf type curricula like that really don't work well for me.

I'm doing a LoL unit a week. The science topic is the topic of the week. If just an hour get done, using just a magic school bus and a Bill Nye video, that is fine.

 

With my LoL plan, at 40 units a year, students can cycle through 80 basic topics in 2 years, and then cycle through again and again. I refuse to stress over science content, unless I had a VERY independent and socially advanced child, capable of some self-education and seeking of mentors. I refuse to ever drag a student through a science text with CUMULATIVE chapters, again. I might do it WITH a student as an EQUAL, but I'm not DRAGGING anyone again. If one needs to be dragged, then one is not going to be able to use what's in the book.

 

And when we focus on minutiae, we don't cover the basics as well. We end out with situations like a student that thinks the world became round when Pangea broke up. I kid you not, I had a student that thought that. And that stars were pointy, and didn't know the sun was a star.

 

Read the introduction of Science Matters to see how little basic science Harvard graduates knew in a study done.

 

An assigned weekly topic, and a book basket of library resources, encyclopedias or whatever is handy, is enough for my default philosophy. And I hope to do 3 ESP labs a year. And a few 5 paragraph research essays. That's all I'm planning. Life is short, and for most of us, it includes a LOT of basic science and LITTLE science minutiae. Wash your hands, don't mix electricity and water, stuff in outer space is roundĂ¢â‚¬â€œthat's the important stuff.

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The only elementary and middle level science books even worth the paper they are on have been the BFSU volumes. However, they are still wordy and a bit overdone. If I weren't completely comfortable in teaching interest-led science I would use these. But as I am comfortable, we go interest-led.

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My approach to science:

 

In the early grades, read books and look for things my kids are interested in (ie, the year my son said he wanted to learn more about sharks, I got books on sharks and even found our children's museum had a class dissecting a 2' shark!) Go to museums when possible (children's museum in the next big city over has a top-ranked children's museum with lots of hands-on science, plus classes for kids) occasional nature walks, and very occasional experiments (I wasn't too regular here!).

 

I never worried if I didn't finish a curriculum--we took it at our pace so we could do what we wanted--follow rabbit trails, do experiments or not do experiments, etc... Don't be tied down by what a book says to accomplish. 

 

We've used Sonlight, NOEO, the Tiner books (enjoyed these for older kids), Supercharged Science (very expensive if you buy--my daughter won a year's subscription though, and that was fun), Apologia elementary and upper level books...so, a variety. There are some newer options out that sound intriguing to me too, they just came out a little past when we would use them. Also science fairs can be a fun way to learn about topics.

 

We've also had various things around over the years--chemistry sets, snap circuits, detective kits... And watched a lot of Mythbusters!

 

When my youngest hit 5th grade, I changed up my philosophy some. It was self-defense, really. I chose my priorities for that year and where I needed to focus my time...and science didn't make the cut. I didn't want to drop science, so I decided my daughter would "unschool" science...with some boundaries I felt comfortable with:

 

1, she was to do something for science daily for about 30 minutes

2, she was to give me updates on what she was up to a couple of times per week

3, she was responsible for finding all needed experiment supplies, getting creative in making something work if we didn't have it, or putting the item on a list on our fridge before she was going to do it (ie, I made it clear we wouldn't be able to drop everything & run out for supplies, but if it was on the list & reasonable, we'd try to get it in a few days). 

4, journal about science at least once per week.

 

I chose a few curricula, had her look at the books online and choose which ones she was interested in. Daily she could:

 

read, draw in her science notebook, take notes in her notebook, do an experiment, observe nature, draw in a nature journal, work on a science fair project, etc... In junior high she also did more googling of science topics online. 

 

This worked very well for her for 5th-8th grades. I don't know that it would have worked for my oldest who is not as science minded. Maybe. 

 

Now in high school she is working through Apologia books. My oldest did robotics engineering one year for highschool science. (Lego Mindstorms with the Carnegie Mellon curriculum for Engineering I and Engineering II.)

 

 

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And you know what, Hunter?  That's more or less what's been sticking in my craw lately.  Apologia is SO focused on a specific topic and I just don't think that's necessary at this stage...or really even any stage until they are choosing a career and NEED to focus on a specific content area.  

 

But when I stop and think about it...isn't the whole goal of science instruction to teach our students HOW to learn about scientific content areas?  Surely, there are specific things that we do want to teach them, specific to certain content areas.  But overall, I'm sitting here with my two 3rd graders having them read a textbook about flying creatures and I'm asking MYSELF, when will they actually use the content they are learning in Apologia?  And the fact is...much of it is SO specific, unless they choose careers in a specific field, they WON'T likely use much of what they're currently learning.  And besides, they're retaining very little of it anyways!  

 

So I think...for the elementary years at least, I'm looking for more of an overview of science topics, with instruction in the scientific method, and learning how to read about a topic, glean important information and then present that information.  At the same time, I would like to be able to follow the kids' interests.  The problem with that is that it can be a bit difficult to accommodate the interests of a 5, 6, 7 and 8 yr old all at the same time...when all of them are interested in something different.  

 

 

Ok, sweetpea, I'm going to overwhelm your thread....  

 

So first of all, you have to set some goals, and I see you have already been thinking about them. You can't make a plan without any goals. Let me start by copying my goals list here.  Not everyone will agree with the goals as I set them out, but they are a starting point. Although your kids are elementary level, I've copied middle and high school goals because you seem like a big picture kind of person. :001_smile:

 

Elementary level goals

 

Content: Interest driven. There are no requirements for content in elementary

 

Skills

1) Reading: able to read nonfiction at increased difficulty over time

2) Output: able to summarize what has been learned, verbally or in writing

3) Observation: ability to see what is actually there, not what you expect to see

4) Math: at grade level

 

Attitudes

1) Curiosity: "wanting to understand the world"(Regentrude). Including the desire to find answers either through books, observation, or tinkering

2) Enthusiasm towards science (or at least a positive attitude)

 

Middle School level goals

 

Content: Broad overview of biology, earth science, chemistry, physics (this can be systematic or interest driven). High school science is easier if it is not the first time the material has been encountered.

 

Skills (students who already possess these skills by 9th grade will be set to succeed in high school science):

1) Reading: Ability to read difficult text. Ability to interpret graphs, charts, and diagrams.

2) Writing: Ability to write succinct answers to "short-answer" questions including evaluate, interpret, integrate, compare and contrast, critique, etc.

3) Math: at grade level. Including the ability to identify and draw appropriate graphs for the data

4) Logical thinking and problem solving capability

5) Study skills, reading a textbook, organization skills, time management, note taking

6) Scientific Method: general understanding of how experiments are replicated and controlled, how hypotheses are are accepted or rejected (this does not need to be a detailed understanding, although it could be if you want to spend the time doing it in middle school to save some time in highschool)

 

Attitudes

Reinforce 1 and 2: curiosity and enthusiasm

3) Scepticism: "inquire what facts substantiate a claim" (Regentrude)

4) Acceptance of falsification: Ability to reject your hypotheses; to not have your ego tied to your ideas.

 

High School level goals

 

Content

1) Science curriculum, including interdisciplinary topics

2) Current events: including politics, pseudoscience, and ethical decision making (I need to think more about this one)

3) Science careers: understanding the peer review process, variety of methods to answering questions (observational, theoretical, statistical, experimental, etc)(Regentrude), double blind studies (need to think more about this one too)

 

Skills

Reinforce skills 1-5: reading, writing, math, logical thinking/problem solving, and study skills

 

6) Scientific method:

a) Forming a hypothesis and identifying if it is answerable

b )Collecting background information

c) Designing systematic methods to answer a question (including objective measurement, defining terms, and replication and controls if doing an experiment)

d) Identifying best way present data (designing tables, graphs, diagrams)

e) Identifying assumptions

f) Identifying errors, find their source, suggest future ways to prevent them

g) Interpreting data

h) Identifying future work

 

7) Ability to use equipment appropriate to field of study

8) Ability to write lab reports

9) Statistical knowledge including probability and issues like correlation vs causation

10) Evaluation of scientific research (obviously, in only a general way)

11) Presentation skills/public speaking (not required, but an excellent add in if time)

 

Attitudes

Reinforce 1-4: curiosity, enthusiasm, scepticism, falsification

5) Persistence: in the face of failed experiments and the need to try new things over and over and over

6) Honesty: being completely objective while collecting data. The goal is to find the truth, not support your personal opinions (this is often harder than your realize, which is why scientists do double blind studies)

 

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So my first questions to you are:

 

1) What are your content, skill, and attitude goals for your elementary-aged kids?  Obviously, my goals will inform yours, but yours do NOT have to be the same.

 

2) You have stated that you are more into a survey of topics, rather than in depth.  So, how do you want to rotate topics?  Do you want to do a year of biology, and a year of earth science, year of chem/physics?  Or do you want to do a term of bio, ear, phys, and chem?  Or do you want to rotate monthly?  Inside something like earth science you have oceanography, meteorology, geography, astronomy.  Each of the big science fields have this many or more subfields, so you can rotate those also.

 

3) Do you have any skills that you want to reinforce with science?  Some kids learn to write by writing about scientific topics.  Some kids want to just read science, and save writing for english.  Some parents want to teach graphing with science rather than in math class.  Some teach organization, time management, independence, persistence, and study skills with science.  Some just encourage their kids to do whatever brings them joy.  What skills will you teach with science?

 

 

 

 

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Here is an x-post on how we did interest-led science in a systematic way. Thought it might be useful to you....

 

X-post

 

I thought I might expand a bit on how to get the kids on board and excited about "what is next." Science in my house is both interest driven and organized/systematic. Yes it can be done. :001_smile:

I start before summer, mentioning in passing about how "I can't wait until next year because we will be doing earth science." I drop little hints, "did you know that earth science has 4 major fields: astronomy, geology, meteorology, and oceanography." Every couple of week for months, I say something else quite purposefully, dropping seeds of interest. "I know so little about crystals, I can't wait until geology." Eventually, the kids start asking "what are we studying next year again?" or "Do we get to study sand next year?" And "oh, I can't wait until we get to astronomy!"

Then, once we are in the earth science year, I drop hints during the first unit on Astronomy, "did you know that geology is next?" A few weeks later, I might mention " wow, I had no idea that geology was such a huge field - rocks, crystals, soil, ground water, plate tectonics, earthquakes, and volcanoes. I just don't think we will be able to do it all. What should we skip?" Then, it goes something like, "ah, mom, we can't skip any of it. I love geology." etc. I think you get the idea. These are breadcrumbs, leading the way to path I want them to follow. It works shockingly well!!! Just today, as I was talking excitedly about finding some good chemistry books in the library for next year, ds(8) asked "what is chemistry?" "Well, it is all about atoms and reactions, like when you put vinegar and baking soda together." "oh, I love chemistry," he says. The first little breadcrumb in place...

As the kids get older, I start to ask for input. My ds when he was 10 was quite adamant that he wanted to study microbiology, and I wanted him to study genetics and evolution, so there you go 3 units for 3 terms. The 4th term being for the science fair project. The younger one (1st grade at the time) could obviously not do those topics, so I chose easier things: botany, zoology, and ecology. But it is nicer when both kids are studying the same big topic, which happened this year. Kind of depends on the field.

So how do I get the topics for the different sciences? Well, you do some research. Find out the big divisions within the subject for the year. Then, I check the library for good books. I check them out while I am planning for the following year and look over them and make sure there is enough of the good stuff at an appropriate level. If there is not, I have to buy some, but this has been pretty infrequent in 6 years. Then, I make a bit of a schedule. Each year has a subject (earth and space science), and each term has a topic (geology) and subtopics (crystals, volcanoes, ground water, erosion). The term topic is pretty well set in stone, but the subtopics can be very fluid. We often can't get to all of them, because we are following rabbit trails, which is just fine. Too much time spent on crystals and soil, leaves too little time on volcanoes and earthquakes. Oh well. There is always more to learn. But at the beginning of the next term, we start the new topic (switching from geology to oceanography which are all a part of the year's subject of earth science).

I do agree with SWB that systematic study of any field is the hallmark of a classical education. I also like using a spine and then getting more books out, but the spines I use are MUCH more detailed than the ones she suggests. So I get a spine for geology, and a different spine for oceanography. Rather than a spine for earth science, which will be more vague and general because there is more to cover.

I disagree with SWB that kids need to summarize, list facts, draw pictures each week to review/document their studies. I have found that this KILLS the love of science learning in my kids. Who wants to read about astronomy if you know you are then going to have to sit at the table and write a summary? yuck:tongue_smilie:. My kids sometimes choose to write about science for their fortnightly reports during writing time. We use IEW, so they spend 1 or 2 weeks with crafting their words/sentences/paragraphs, and then editing and copying over. Much more satisfying than just the repetition of weekly note booking. But each to his own.

During each topic, we do some easy hands on stuff as a family. For example, for astronomy, we follow the moon, identify the constellations, and watch NASA launches; for geology, we grow a crystal, look at road cuts, watch the news for earthquakes (ug, think Christchurch); for oceanography we notice jetties, look at sea creatures, and watch the waves; and for meteorology we identify cloud types, study weather maps, and make measurement equipment. All of this is just observing the world-- making what we are learning come to life. It has no scientific method component, and there is no reason to write it up as a lab report. It is just fun and educational.


Then, after 3 terms of reading, we do 1 term on a large-scale investigation. This year's investigations are: ds(11)-- how does the wind speed and direction affect longshore transport of sand? And ds(8)-- How does land slope and vegetation affect the depth of the topsoil? This is where the kids will write up their project in a scientific report, including hypothesis, method, results, and discussion. They make a poster and then present at the science fair.

And one more X-post

We follow rabbit trails, but they are rabbit trails within the topic. I don't discourage the kids learning other topics within science when we are studying astronomy, for example, but the whole family is focused on astronomy. We are all noticing the moon cycle and finding stars in the sky. We are reading books and watching docos. And my dh comes home with news on NASA's new launch, and we watch it over breakfast on a streaming NASA TV. It is exciting. If they want to grow a crystal or read a Magic School Bus book on rain forests, fine, but the whole family is focused on astronomy.

This systematic focus helps the kids explore topics they never would have thought or on their own (oceanography for example) and helps to direct the rabbit trails within the topics. DS(11) was particularly interested in soil when we studied geology for 9 weeks and spent extra time on that subtopic. For geology, he studied rocks, crystals, plate tectonics, and soil/erosion (but ran out of time for ground water and volcanoes, when the term was up we moved on to oceanography). I don't think that either of us would have ever thought to study soil. How boring.... until you learn a lot about it. So IMHO, elementary school is about exposure in addition to the excitement that everyone always talks about.

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So I think...for the elementary years at least, I'm looking for more of an overview of science topics, with instruction in the scientific method, and learning how to read about a topic, glean important information and then present that information. At the same time, I would like to be able to follow the kids' interests. The problem with that is that it can be a bit difficult to accommodate the interests of a 5, 6, 7 and 8 yr old all at the same time...when all of them are interested in something different.

 

Our science study is based on the WTM rotation. I've used some curriculum in the past, but always end up going back to a library card and many good books midway through the school year. Last year, I used BFSU and Lewelma's posts for topics and book lists.

 

I'm not as experienced as Regentrude or lewelma, but my kids have taken standardized tests for the past four years for grades from K-5th. We used the CAT and Terra Nova. If there's a science section, my kids have almost always answered them correctly. Most of the questions are either reading charts or selecting which tool can be used to measure or observe.

 

Last year, DS missed one "content" question. It was a drawing of mushroom rocks. He answered they were formed by water; I pointed out that the bare ground and lack of plants meant the rocks were formed by wind. He replied deserts can have flash floods. Even though he got the answer wrong, he observed the photo and made a supportable defense of his reasoning.

 

Let me reassure you: don't worry about the standardized tests.

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How does that impact your children as far as standardized testing is concerned?  We are required to test in 4th, 6th, and 8th (or 5th and 7th).  

 

And what are your plans for high school science?  

 

 

So for now, that's all well and good.  But what's going to happen when they (the oldest two) have to sit for their standardized tests in another two years?  How do you quantify the informal learning they've done?  

 

This is where knowing the poster responding helps.  Regentrude is a physics professor at a university.  Her dh is also a physics professor. Her oldest has been accept to UChicago for the fall.  High school science is a btdt perspective.

 

My approach is the same as hers.   I am in a really bad mood right now b/c my laptop just crashed and I am praying that my the scan I am doing right now doesn't leave me with everything lost.   So excuse my bluntness.....

 

but I don't give a flying leap what an elementary or middle school standardized test shows for science.   There is no  such thing as standard science sequence before high school level sciences.   Expose your kids to lots of science concepts, let them thrive in enjoying what they are learning and finding interesting, encourage questioning what they see and are trying to understand, etc.   That is a MUCH better science foundation than any science textbook out there.   Give me a kid whose science education consists of science textbooks and science knowledge-based tests and a kid whose science education is spent in meandering through in-depth reading on science topics that have grabbed their enthusiasm and I can pretty much guarantee that the child experiencing the latter approach will have greater scientific understanding.

 

As far as quantifying what they have learned?   I don't worry about it.   The results speak for themselves.   I have a successful chemical engineer and a rising college freshman who already has college credit for chem 1 and 2, cal physics 1 and 2, plus 3 higher level university physics courses.   If they had taken a standardized science test in elementary or middle school, the results would be irrelevant as to what they knew.   They could be studying some obscure information that had nothing to do with the science on the test.   They would have been able to score high enough that the score would be "passing" by state standards, but not representative of their actual abilities.   Not a big deal.   Test scores are so far down on my list of academic priorities that other than being a hoop we jump through, I completely ignore them, especially for subjects like science and social studies during the younger yrs.

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Read Lewelma's posts as they are so helpful, but to give you our experience, I've summarized our science study.

 

I decide what we're studying broadly. I break it up into subtopics for the kids. Last year for biology, the topics did diverge a bit. DS (5th) was studying cellular biology while dd (2nd) studied plants. They both studied anatomy at the same time, but different levels of books.

 

The kids would read a bit of science every day and I tried to have a discussion with them daily. Dd read aloud while DS read his assigned book independently. Every week, I'd put library books on hold, but the kids also selected their own science books. My library policy is to require a book from science and history before they're released to pick their free reading. We watched documentaries when relevant as well as internet videos.

 

With kids ranging from 5-8 years, I'd read aloud to the group, with independent reading assigned to the older child.

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This has all been very informative and many thanks to all of you that have contributed!  Interest-led is looking more appealing and "do-able" after reading everybody's suggestions.  

 

So now my question is...how do you handle interest-led Science when you are schooling multiple kids of different ages with different interests?  Its no biggie to adjust what we're doing for the age of each kiddo, but if all four kiddos want to study something different, I can see this getting a bit overwhelming.  

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This has all been very informative and many thanks to all of you that have contributed! Interest-led is looking more appealing and "do-able" after reading everybody's suggestions.

 

So now my question is...how do you handle interest-led Science when you are schooling multiple kids of different ages with different interests? Its no biggie to adjust what we're doing for the age of each kiddo, but if all four kiddos want to study something different, I can see this getting a bit overwhelming.

We take suggestions and mom plans. For example for the upcoming year these were the requests:

Dd 11 - chemistry, robotics, simple machines

DS 9 - astronomy, marine biology, engineering large structures (bridges etc) for natural disasters

Dd 7 - human body

 

And this is what I've planned:

Fall: Marine science, First Lego League, Science Olympiad (for oldest 2, they choose events)

Winter: chemistry, Science Olympiad

Spring: Astronomy, human body

 

Additionally we do nature study.

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This has all been very informative and many thanks to all of you that have contributed!  Interest-led is looking more appealing and "do-able" after reading everybody's suggestions.  

 

So now my question is...how do you handle interest-led Science when you are schooling multiple kids of different ages with different interests?  Its no biggie to adjust what we're doing for the age of each kiddo, but if all four kiddos want to study something different, I can see this getting a bit overwhelming.  

 

It's easy when they can learn independently. 

 

Before that time, interest-led here looked more like me paying attention to their interests and doing a variety of things. Alternate units of study so that every child has something that's an interest at some point during the year, but not every single unit you do will top the list of every child. 

 

It can also look like rotating types of activities. One of mine enjoyed role-playing and getting hands dirty. The other preferred activities that were not as messy, and cuddling on the couch being read to. The topic wasn't always as important as what we did.

 

I  think it's good for kids to be exposed to new things and things they wouldn't normally try, whether that's topics or activities--so I don't mind if not every topic tops their interest list.

 

Frankly, sometimes I choose things that interest ME. I wanted to read that book or do that activity, and it might be something my kids would never choose, based on a lack of knowledge and experience, or a lack of interest. Sometimes it sparked a new interest. Other times it broadened horizons even if they weren't interested enough to pursue it further. 

 

So I guess...let "interests" be a tool in your toolbox, but not a "master" that you have to always follow...does that make sense?

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but I don't give a flying leap what an elementary or middle school standardized test shows for science.   There is no  such thing as standard science sequence before high school level sciences.   Expose your kids to lots of science concepts, let them thrive in enjoying what they are learning and finding interesting, encourage questioning what they see and are trying to understand, etc.   That is a MUCH better science foundation than any science textbook out there.   Give me a kid whose science education consists of science textbooks and science knowledge-based tests and a kid whose science education is spent in meandering through in-depth reading on science topics that have grabbed their enthusiasm and I can pretty much guarantee that the child experiencing the latter approach will have greater scientific understanding.

 

As far as quantifying what they have learned?   I don't worry about it.   The results speak for themselves.   I have a successful chemical engineer and a rising college freshman who already has college credit for chem 1 and 2, cal physics 1 and 2, plus 3 higher level university physics courses.   If they had taken a standardized science test in elementary or middle school, the results would be irrelevant as to what they knew.   They could be studying some obscure information that had nothing to do with the science on the test.   They would have been able to score high enough that the score would be "passing" by state standards, but not representative of their actual abilities.   Not a big deal.   Test scores are so far down on my list of academic priorities that other than being a hoop we jump through, I completely ignore them, especially for subjects like science and social studies during the younger yrs.

 

Exactly! Standardized tests for math and language arts could arguably have some meaning, but the rest is highly questionable unless you're following a standardized curriculum. No thanks. We're using BFSU for guidance and completeness, but as a biology professor with a decent background in the other sciences I am also comfortable making adjustments on-the-fly, including additions, substitutions, or even skipping over or skimming sections that seem unusually simplistic for my science-oriented DS8. I understand the prep can be a bit overwhelming for some, but that hasn't been a problem for us, and this is the best curriculum I've seen that teaches all the disciplines together as a cohesive whole, is flexible enough to take full advantage of teachable moments, and teaches the student how to think like a scientist. It's inquiry oriented rather than fact oriented. You also can't beat the ongoing support provided by the author and experienced homeschoolers on the Yahoo Groups support groups. We're covered through 8th grade easily, although I may add a few topics here and there (marine biology, for example, is not directly covered, and in about 2-3 months we'll be living a couple miles from the ocean).

 

High school plans are still up in the air, but I've got some excellent resources available to me, and recently found some DIY science lab books by O'Reilly that look fantastic (and they fit well, both equipment and approach-wise, with BFSU, so they will be a great progression for us).

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So how do I get the topics for the different sciences? Well, you do some research. Find out the big divisions within the subject for the year. Then, I check the library for good books. I check them out while I am planning for the following year and look over them and make sure there is enough of the good stuff at an appropriate level. If there is not, I have to buy some, but this has been pretty infrequent in 6 years. Then, I make a bit of a schedule. Each year has a subject (earth and space science), and each term has a topic (geology) and subtopics (crystals, volcanoes, ground water, erosion). The term topic is pretty well set in stone, but the subtopics can be very fluid. We often can't get to all of them, because we are following rabbit trails, which is just fine. Too much time spent on crystals and soil, leaves too little time on volcanoes and earthquakes. Oh well. There is always more to learn. But at the beginning of the next term, we start the new topic (switching from geology to oceanography which are all a part of the year's subject of earth science).

 

I do agree with SWB that systematic study of any field is the hallmark of a classical education. I also like using a spine and then getting more books out, but the spines I use are MUCH more detailed than the ones she suggests. So I get a spine for geology, and a different spine for oceanography. Rather than a spine for earth science, which will be more vague and general because there is more to cover.

 

I disagree with SWB that kids need to summarize, list facts, draw pictures each week to review/document their studies. I have found that this KILLS the love of science learning in my kids. Who wants to read about astronomy if you know you are then going to have to sit at the table and write a summary? yuck:tongue_smilie:. My kids sometimes choose to write about science for their fortnightly reports during writing time. We use IEW, so they spend 1 or 2 weeks with crafting their words/sentences/paragraphs, and then editing and copying over. Much more satisfying than just the repetition of weekly note booking. But each to his own.

 

During each topic, we do some easy hands on stuff as a family. For example, for astronomy, we follow the moon, identify the constellations, and watch NASA launches; for geology, we grow a crystal, look at road cuts, watch the news for earthquakes (ug, think Christchurch); for oceanography we notice jetties, look at sea creatures, and watch the waves; and for meteorology we identify cloud types, study weather maps, and make measurement equipment. All of this is just observing the world-- making what we are learning come to life. It has no scientific method component, and there is no reason to write it up as a lab report. It is just fun and educational.

 

Lewelma! This is so helpful! I'm trying to figure out what to do for Science as we are just starting out and I love the idea you present here - as opposed to a broad curriculum. This is our first year homeschooling and after talking to my girls (9 & 11) we've decided to do Earth Science this year. You say that you use a "spine" for your different topics. First, I think I get the gist of what "spine" means, but maybe you could define, just so that I'm clear? And do you have any recommendations for a "spine" for topics in Earth Science? Geology, Meteorology, Oceanology, Astronomy? Thank you!!!

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I'll start off by saying that you should listen to Ruth and regentrude. They know far more about science and science education than I ever will!

 

You wanted to know what others' science plans and goals and approaches were, so I'll add mine; I had to read a lot of ideas before I found the place that resonated with me. I have a very young, very science-oriented daughter. Her feedback on any science learning we do is always that she wants more. So I have to say my primary goal for her while young is simply to fuel that love of science, that natural curiosity. I weave her love of science through other subjects - art, history, and reading all have natural intersections. We work on some basic logic skills now so that they may be easier to flesh out later. Because I have a crummy science background, I adopted a personal attitude of being excited to learn alongside my daughter and am trying to regain the curiosity about the world that I know I must have had once upon a time.

 

As for what that looks like in a practical manner, I use BFSU as a guide for myself. It keeps me moving forward in a systematic manner regarding topics to teach. We use a lot of library books, primarily jumping off from the BFSU reading lists, but also just wandering through the nonfiction section and letting DD grab what sparks her interest. She loves science demonstrations and simple experiments, so in addition to having some basic supplies on hand, I order Science in a Nutshell kits that coordinate with the BFSU section we are working on. Right now, she is high-intake, low-output, so there is no expectation of journaling or writing of any kind tied to science; that will change when she is ready. She does love to draw her hypotheses and verbally explain it, so I encourage this. We watch Magic School Bus and documentaries alike. The Private Eye curriculum is wonderful and we use it currently to combine science and art, and will add combinations with other subjects as she grows. Lego Education kits provide some basic physics, engineering, and problem-solving. Our local children's science museum gives us both time to purely play with science and we intentionally go during quiet times so we can sometimes choose one exhibit and grab a volunteer to help us understand the concepts behind it.

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What we are doing this year is studying a scientist and doing activities around that scientist for 6 weeks. So the first 6 weeks we read stories about John James Audubon and have done things related to birds (calls, life cycle, birdwatching, we will be painting birdhouses,etc). We are also listening to the Burgess Bird Book. We have Gregory Mendel, George Washington Carver, Marie Curie, and 2 others that are slipping my mind right now planned for the rest of our year. My kids are K-3 so I am okay with our approach for now.

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Wonderful thread I want to bookmark and read more closely later. 

 

Science is finally getting done here, and my kids are enjoying themselves, after my poor oldest child was my science guinea pig for too long.

 

Honestly using the RSO products from Pandia Press have been extremely helpful. My kids like the notebook pages and activities, and reading from various real books. I also have some well made textbooks available (ranging from elementary to college level) that we typically use as reference. We really thrive on color pictures and diagrams and documentaries. Big time kinesthetic-visual learners here. 

 

I do follow the WTM rotation, and WTM is a great resource for kits and books. However i do not really like a 4 year plan. I prefer a 3 year rotation Bio/Life, Earth/astronomy, Chem/physical science. One of those pre high school years can possibly be dedicated to exploring a sub topic further.  I try to focus on what season we are in as well. Some curricula have topics relating to botany first thing: I wait until Spring and Summer into early Fall to cover that because then we will be gardening. Anatomy is great to study in the winter months. Astronomy works well in winter because of those gorgeous winter night skies. Weather in the Spring.

 

My plans for high school have always been to send them to high school.LOL. But that may not be the case, at least with my oldest. I would prefer 4 high school credits- bio, anatomy/ physiology, chem, and physics. 

 

We follow interests whenever possible. But for my sanity it's easier if I plan our science year, and then merely facilitate their interests beyond that. Most of the time there's no conflict between the two. 

 

We use The Private Eye as a resource regardless of what we are doing,and I consider nature study a separate subject that happens regardless of the science topic.

 

I do plan on having my oldest learn to study and outline/take notes from a text. I feel it's a separate skill set beyond the learning of the science topics. I do not want him in a college class and having to figure out how to use a textbook efficiently for the first time. But for the most part I try to keep science as hands on as possible. Anything remotely resembling a science workbook or glorified coloring book is not appreciated here. same with just reading about it. We do read science books,but I've found my kids retain more if we'r edoing something and I'm casually chatting about the science involved. I try to ask them leading questions to get them to make connections on their own. AFTER the doing we may read. 

 

Same with SOTW etc. I've discovered that my kids respond better to the reading of a spine or book after doing a related activity. The reading reinforces the activity, not the other way 'round. 

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I wish I'd found this thread, and all the other threads a few weeks ago! I've been planning on using Apologia, because we have it, we're doing CC, blah, blah; but I haven't been happy or even felt good about this plan. I'm just a history student who doesn't love science. But I want to do better, to be more classically educated myself. So now I have two weeks to get science re-planned.

 

What I'm understanding so far is that science in the early grades (my oldest is 8) should be more about cultivating observation and research to understand the observations? That really, the goal of science is to have a scientific outlook (ie see, study, question, research)?

 

My kids are already a lot more observant than I am. As in, I stepped over a snake the other day walking into the house, but behind me they saw it and stopped. (I can't believe I missed that one!) And I did use that, we looked it up and tried to figure out what kind of snake it was, but we didn't go deeper than that. I guess I should have. Would you have run to the library, gotten a bunch of books on snakes (eating habits, habitats, anatomy)?

 

This feels so beyond me. I'm off to read the other threads.

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For my early grammar stage DD, I take an integrated, hands-on approach that is also interest led.  I have a big back yard filled with mature hardwoods that is adjacent to 40 acres of forest and undeveloped property.  We grow things, observe toads, moths, and birds.  We watch videos, take pictures, use the Magiscope, color, and draw.  When none of that seems interesting, DD builds snap circuits, reads over a trade book, or completes a Beginning Geography worksheet by Evan-Moor.  Our Painted Lady caterpillars arrived last Thursday.  

 

I don't really see the point in studying one science discipline all year in the grammar stage and up to 7th grade.  Lewelma has heavily influenced me towards science fair participation. My DD wants to participate so we are going to support that.

 

 

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Our favorite science curriculum was Foss science, but it was in a school environment.  It is open-ended investigations on specific subjects that teach kids how to "do" science.  It is my son's favorite subject.  Neither my husband or I are sciency.  Last year, I tried to put a lot into doing my own science, taking from pinterest experiments, library books and Foss website materials.  It was great when it got done (my hard drive crashed mid-year and took my lesson plans with it.), but I spent a ton of time planning.  This year, he asked to study animals, and even though he has studied some, we are going with Elemental Science Biology, which will also be great for my K son starting school.  I like to use live books and experiments.  I do "demonstration" experiments from Janice VanCleave books, and we love Mudpies to Magnets for preschool.  We watch lots of Magic School Bus.  

 

I grew up in private schools, and did the Abeka/Bob Jones science and never loved it.  Apologia doesn't appeal to me at all.  It's too "chatty" conversational.  I am very picky about science curriculum.  I want there to be the memory of science terms, the understanding of the scientific method and lots of interest-based exploration at this age.  I am a Christian, but I don't like "preachy" curriculum.  I want to investigate origins more in the dialectic and rhetoric stages when it is age appropriate, and for now, I'd prefer to direct our focus to the other parts of science.  

 

If we like Elemental Science, we may do Physical Science next year, but I am also looking at Delta's Science in a Nutshell kits as we have been impressed with the Foss investigations.  

 

I will probably outsource science in jr. high and high school.  I suffered through high school chemistry once and don't care to do it again.  I did like lab stuff and dissecting and learning about genetics.  I guess I am more hands-on when it comes to science, and my son is too.  I want to foster a love for exploring and learning and "doing science" more than anything else in the elementary years.

 

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