My kid who "kisses the spectrum"...

[texasmama]

...is kicking my butt lately.  Today was brutal with the rude questions about how I handle everything.  He does not realize he is being critical.  Usually it does not hurt my feelings.  Today, it did.  I do give him honest feedback about how his questions and criticism make me feel.  I kinda just want to sit here and cry, and that is so unlike me.

 

ETA:  He was so sweet and precious until he reached the teen years.

[PeterPan]

My boy made me cry (inwardly) yesterday too.  :(

 

:grouphug: 

[PeterPan]

Is it possible he should have someone else to talk with these things about?

[sbgrace]

:grouphug:

[texasmama]

(((hugs)))  OhE

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[texasmama]

Is it possible he should have someone else to talk with these things about?

Ima make him talk to his father.  ;)

 

He would probably refuse to go to therapy.  We do have a therapist "on retainer", pretty much.  It was a barrage of questions like, "Do you think you worry too much and talk too much about everything?"  It went on and on.  He has a fair amount of insight sometimes, but he tends to be brutally insensitive where I am concerned.  Sigh.

[wapiti]

Chocolate, medicinal levels.

[texasmama]

I'd take mad over sad, I think. ;) And chocolate is always a good idea.

[Guest]

.

[Crimson Wife]

Adolescents are bratty and insensitive regardless of whether they are on the spectrum or not. My oldest has been a hormonal mess this week (gotta love those early cycles) and I have been the main target. How DARE I not read her mind and take the innertube SHE wanted (that looks just like all the other ones but is somehow better to her mind)?

[texasmama]

Yes, teens can be a real pain in the butt, and my 19 year old is still this way at times.  This is a bit beyond that, though, in that it is different from typical teen stuff, and it reminds me of his differences.  I have the wonderful luxury of having a child who only "kisses" the spectrum and does not land smack dab in the middle of it so he "passes for typical" the vast majority of the time.  In spite of his differences, I have not found parenting him overall to be terribly difficult, as he has always been a sweet, compliant child.  Bye, bye sweet, compliant little boy and hello rude, in your face teen boy.

[Guest]

.

[texasmama]

Small update:  This son and his brother got into it physically yesterday.  His brother, a sensitive, relational soul like myself, is convinced that his brother does not care about him at all.  This prompted a talk with my kissing the spectrum son in which I drew a diagram of sensitivity, putting it on a linear scale and marking where he is, I am, his brother is, the general population is, etc.  I drew him outside the ASD but just.  This went very well, and he accepted that he is not as sensitive to other people's feelings as he could be.  He asked good questions and received the feedback remarkably well.  He was not hurt, defensive or offended.  He went out later  to play basketball with his younger brother and I heard him ask for feedback from the brother of how he was during the playing (often basketball gets heated).  He clearly had made efforts.  I had to help his brother respond to his efforts with graciousness.  Dh also had a talk with our son about how he is now reaping the seeds he sowed with his younger, more sensitive brother.  Overall, I will put it in the win column.  And you all know how big that is to have something go about as well as it can.  That never happens.  lol  Just wanted to share our progress. 

[PeterPan]

I'm glad you made some progress, though the physical altercation must have been scary!  I think somebody mentioned this, but maybe this boy needs more physical (or more sensory input) to get him through this?  My ds is under sensitive on sensory, and it's amazing how much he can suck up.  I took him to the state fair today, where we rode rides and rode rides.  He totally crashed.  All that sensory just put him really right with the world, wow.  Made me feel pretty zen too.  :D

 

My other question, just asking, is whether this boy is going to get evals again later?  Is there really nothing the DSM can do to help you or give you more tools when you so clearly are struggling?  Just thinking about what that implies for what will happen with my boy... sigh.  

 

 

[texasmama]

I'm glad you made some progress, though the physical altercation must have been scary!  I think somebody mentioned this, but maybe this boy needs more physical (or more sensory input) to get him through this?  My ds is under sensitive on sensory, and it's amazing how much he can suck up.  I took him to the state fair today, where we rode rides and rode rides.  He totally crashed.  All that sensory just put him really right with the world, wow.  Made me feel pretty zen too.   :D

 

My other question, just asking, is whether this boy is going to get evals again later?  Is there really nothing the DSM can do to help you or give you more tools when you so clearly are struggling?  Just thinking about what that implies for what will happen with my boy... sigh.  

My boys not infrequently get physical with each other.  Being two years apart, a LOT of togetherness, one with some impulsivity, being on the same basketball team (and competitive with each other), and teen/pre-teen hormones are causing the current issues.  We recently separated their rooms when older dd went to college so this has helped some.  I don't really fear that they are going to "go to the ER" hurt each other, but they do a LOT of pushing, minor hitting, posturing, and verbal threats.  I hate it, but I think some amount of it is within the norm.  Or so say my friends with boys or who have had close in age brothers.  ;)

 

My guy does get quite a bit of physical exercise in the form of basketball in our backyard.  We have a nice concrete pad out there.  He plays alone, with his brother and with friends for some time on most days.  It is an outlet for all of the testosterone rushing through his veins.

 

I don't actually anticipate any more evals for this one.  He has been evaluated out the wazoo multiple times since he was barely three years old.  He is a "fall through the cracks" kinda kid, and his most consistent official DSM label would probably be in the anxiety department, though he does not fit it currently. SPD is not an accepted diagnoses, as you know.   No ADHD (working memory scores are great); no diagnosable LD's, though he has a wide swing between his outlier strengths and weaknesses; no ASD, particularly now that the DSM has narrowed the spectrum.  He is at the end of the interventions regarding OT, PT and ST.  He had over ten years of those interventions.  We are in "rest of your life" mode now.  He will be 14 this fall.  He is doing well in his subjects and is independent in his co op classes and demonstrating a lot of responsibility in those, has developed friendships, only melts down emotionally rarely over math, has meaningful hobbies, has some friends, and he seems like he has a good life, though he is a pessimistic introvert.  ;)  He is a real pain in the butt many days!  When I am on my game, I take that as normal teen boy stuff.  It is so hard to evaluate your own kid, though, you know?  Dh and I were talking about that last night.  He is just our kid, our "N".  We don't see him objectively.  I do know that when I talk to people who have only known him a year...parents of other kids on the basketball team, for instance...they are surprised to hear that he had so many issues when he was young that he needed a great deal of professional intervention.  His negativity wears on me as much as anything.  Everything is "meh" to him at best.

 

The exception might be if he hits bumps in the road (or I do ;) ), and he needs psychotherapy.  He's been in the past when he was younger, and it is an option in the future. 

 

I have been holding my breath with this kid for most of his life, and I think I might be able to exhale when he is 18.  I'll let you know.  :)

 

Someday you will be here at this place with your guy, OhE.  I don't know when.  But I believe you will be.  On the hard days, I can say what I did on this thread.  Most days aren't hard days anymore, thank God, not like they were.  I'm pretty good about knowing when we reach the tipping point at which I am unable to help my kids and that is when I call in the therapist.  I know I will in the future, about this kid or another one.  It's how I roll.  :)

[PeterPan]

Thanks for being so honest.  I'm just storing it all away. It's a mess when there's something that's really not normal but there's no way to quantify it or put a name on it, ugh.  And I think you're right that it could happen to us.  

 

If it's any consolation, my dd was much better at 14 than 13, and now at 15 she smiles quite a bit and carries herself like a normal (if somewhat introverted and reclusive spider-ish) human.  So maybe soon he'll sprout and came through it?  I know, if you're sort of extrovert, the introversion can really grate on you.  It makes them not as fun to work with, because they really do want to be by themselves a lot.  I haven't figured out how to reconcile that with all the grandiose assumptions I had about high school and discussions and all that.

[texasmama]

Yep, this one (my only introvert) is kind of offended that he has to occupy space with so many talking people.  I tell him it is good preparation for life.  ;)

[Guest]

.

[Guest]

.

[PeterPan]

Thanks marie.  I don't think it's going to be full-blow autism.  No one thinks that, not his SLP, not the moms I've talked with who have aspie kids themselves who've been with him, not me, no one.  But aspie or kissing the spectrum (enough to be quirky, not enough to get a label), that's what we don't know.  He's got enough odd things that we feel we need to eval but not enough to know if he'll actually get a label.  He doesn't have the caffeine flip of adhd, so I really don't think he gets that.  He clearly has some impulsivity and probably at least a normal boyish amount of energy.  He does some odd things and is sensory-seeking.  Sometimes you see anxiety peeking through, and he definitely gets ideas in his head.  He definitely misses social cues and has some issues with being literal.  He's definitely got the gorgeous eyelash thing.  So we don't know.  And the responsible thing is to eval, so that's what we're doing.  But mainly we're eval'ing because the trite answers like "Oh, homeschooling will make that so easy! You'll just teach him where he is!" don't really help when you're getting ready to use preschool handwriting and 3rd grade science.  He's just all over the place and we know we need some help so we're getting it.  We're not even sure we're going to the right person, but we're trying, sigh.

 

PS.  You just explained my dd pretty well.  That has always confused me, why she's not an extrovert, but I think you're right that it's her verbalness that makes her *seem* more extrovert than she is.  

[texasmama]

Things are not always the way they seem. When we are talking about the spectrum so many things can be perceived differently by those that are on the outside. You see, it works both ways. The person on the spectrum perceives those around him and their actions differently but also his/ her actions are perceived differently by those around him/ her as well. Many things that might be common sense to those not on the spectrum are not as clear to those on the spectrum. So essentially, those around your son may see him as considering others beneath him when all that is going on is that he just cannot understand them or relate to their priorities. Know what I mean! Not trying to find excuses for him. Just saying that sometimes you have to work backwards with these kids.

"Offended" is probably the wrong word. It is more overwhelmed.  There are a lot of us, after all, and four of us talk A LOT.  Dh is an introvert, as well, so he is not as much of a talker.  Ds13 does not like being asked questions.  I think it strains his brain to try to converse in this manner.  He is a slower processer of information, as many introverts are.  My fave book about introverts is currently The Hidden Gifts of Your Introverted Child.  I bought it to understand my son, but it really helped me more in my marriage.  ;)  My ds is a true introvert, though, and my dh probably understands him better in that regard as they have it in common.  Ds doesn't come across as "better than", just kind of shy and quiet. 

 

Frankly, the talkiness of my two youngest kids makes me brain tired fairly often, and I am pretty far on the extrovert scale.  So I do really understand his aversion to the lot of us saying words all the time.  lol

[texasmama]

  He's definitely got the gorgeous eyelash thing.  

What's up with the eyelash thing?  Never associated ASD with gorgeous eyelashes.  In all my research, I never heard of this so now I need to know more.  :)

[PeterPan]

Ooo, thanks for the book recommend!  Our library has it, and it definitely sounds like it would be helpful here!

[PeterPan]

What's up with the eyelash thing?  Never associated ASD with gorgeous eyelashes.  In all my research, I never heard of this so now I need to know more.  :)

Well it's on the ARI questionnaire... Not exactly eyelashes, but they do ask some appearance questions.  I don't really remember where I first read it, but it's definitely an observation out there.  Just google.  Sorta like widely spaced eyes.  There is so much they still don't understand, so I don't think it's some kind of definitive thing.  

[texasmama]

I always thought that dh was being selfish when he refused to go to events with a lot of people, but one time I asked him to attend a huge, rowdy birthday party at the home of a large family which was extremely crowded.  There were people milling about and a lot of kids.  I was hip to hip with a stranger sitting on a bench because everything was so crowded.  He looked miserable and finally went out and sat in the car.  Afterwards, he told me that he felt like he had gone twelve rounds in a prize fighting ring.  This was a few years ago, and for the first time I understood what these situations did to him.

 

I also never understood why he took so long to make decisions.  The book speaks about the neural path that information takes in the brain of an introvert versus an extrovert.  Fascinating stuff.

[texasmama]

Well it's on the ARI questionnaire... Not exactly eyelashes, but they do ask some appearance questions.  I don't really remember where I first read it, but it's definitely an observation out there.  Just google.  Sorta like widely spaced eyes.  There is so much they still don't understand, so I don't think it's some kind of definitive thing.  

Ds has always had long, thick, notable eyelashes that people have commented on.  Dh had long eyelashes as a child which people commented on, too.  Dh is so very NOT ASD, though.  Maybe introverts have long, gorgeous eyelashes.  :D

[Guest]

.

[Guest]

.

[Guest]

.

[Guest]

.

[Guest]

.

[texasmama]

I feel we are all introverts in our home, just at varying levels. I don't do well with crowds in close proximity and neither does my youngest. Hubby and oldest boy don't either but youngest and I are the worst. It causes anxiety and is sensory related. As a girl I was able to control appearances better than my son who will melt down if he reaches that point and you don't get him out on time. Thankfully we can understand each other in our family because we are very close to being alike in many ways. But since the sensory issues come from my side of the family and I have them I can relate to some of what the boys are going through more than my hubby. I intuited over-stimulation, while out, in both boys since infancy. Nature has a calming effect and helps especially my youngest and I. It is why we moved far out of the city. We wake up at the sound of birds chirping now :) .

We are in the country, too.  It was my husband's idea.  It is soothing. 

[texasmama]

It is this child who started us on the homeschooling path. He had terrible separation anxiety in first grade at his private school.  So he has been homeschooled since then, and so have my two youngest kids.   I appreciate his anxiety.  It led me, and I am glad for the path we followed.

 

When he was little, his future looked very fuzzy when I tried to imagine it.  Now, it is clearer.  He has a marked strength in math.  He could be a very successful accountant or engineer or any number of career choices.  He has friends.  He is adorable and has a good heart.  He can someday have a wife and family if he wants.

[Storygirl]

:seeya:  Extreme introvert here!! I'm also very verbal, so around good friends and family, I can be super chatty. Put me with people I don't know or who are mere acquaintances, though, and they will always describe me as being very quiet.

 

I happen to live with some very loud and rambunctious children (three out of four of them are actually introverts, I think, though still LOUD and crazy at home), and all of the activity and noise can be very wearing on me. I have to find ways to retreat from being around people all the time, or I get very snappy and grumpy and feel jangly and out of sorts :angry: .

 

 It might be hard sometimes to let your introvert children retreat from the rest of the family for alone time, but I guarantee that the whole family will be better off for it!!

[texasmama]

I don't mind retreat from the rest of us.  I wish I could retreat from the rest of us more.  ;)  My guy has gotten better at knowing when he needs alone time, and his younger brother (who is an extreme extrovert, high energy kind of kid), has begun to accept better that his brother's need to be alone is not a rejection of him.  That is something we have worked on for years. 

 

My two sons are an example of the fascinating genetic combinations which can be produced by the same two adults.  They don't even look alike.  If you did not know they were related, you would not think that.  The relationship between my two sons has been the most challenging to navigate of all the relationship combinations between my four kids.  I think it ends well, though.  I really do.  :)

 

Older son decided on his own to go serve at the church food ministry this morning.  Dh and younger son always go, but older son only goes sometimes.  Go him.  :)

[raptor_dad]

Ds has always had long, thick, notable eyelashes that people have commented on.  Dh had long eyelashes as a child which people commented on, too.  Dh is so very NOT ASD, though.  Maybe introverts have long, gorgeous eyelashes.  :D

 

Both DS's have eyes like these that are also blue... they got them from me. My older also "kisses the spectrum". Younger DS seems very extroverted to us, but I'm pretty sure that is because everyone else in the house is an extreme introvert.

 

Adults say dumb stuff all the time... The "my you've grown" comments just generate an eye roll. However the comments I got growing up... "with eye's like those you're going to a real lady killer" or similar... were confusing and uncomfortable as an awkward introverted kid. DS7 is already getting those comments from well meaning  Aunts, Grandmothers, etc. I wince but I think for now they just fly over his head... 

 

PS Like the other posters here my boys are very cute... I just wanted to interject a introverts perspective on any attention to this trait.

 

[texasmama]

My poor ds has endured many a long eyelashes comment in his time.

[Guest]

.