Sunscreen

[musicianmom]

I have seen two anti-sunscreen articles going around FB. One was specifically against the spray-on kind, saying it was dangerous especially for kids because of the fumes. The other was saying that sunscreen in general is bad because of the toxicity and the vitamin D3 deficit from lack of sun exposure. That article actually claimed that sun exposure does NOT cause skin cancer!

 

So in order to avoid the issue altogether, and because I'm lazy, I've been just doing pool time with the kids after 5 pm. But I'd love to figure out a real answer. Any thoughts?

[73349]

Use the database at EWG to find the safest sunscreen. The closer to zero, the safer the chemicals. Some kinds really are bad for you, although it's hard to weigh them against burns.

 

If you're going outside enough to use up sunscreen regularly and not even using it for incidental exposure, I doubt you will have trouble getting enough sun.

[SKL]

My chiropractor advises against it.  They say take Vitamin F ?? instead.

 

I have also been hearing for years about sunscreens having toxic chemicals including carcinogens.

 

I am thankful that my daughters have dark skin and I don't have to worry about them burning.  If I did have to worry, I'd look for a natural sunscreen, but mostly rely on clothes and sensible behavior rather than a chemical.

 

Somebody somewhere (on the internet) said coconut oil is enough.  Anyone else heard this?

[SeaConquest]

I have used coconut oil and still burn. I trust Safe Mama's recommendations: http://safemama.com/cheatsheets/sunscreen/

[Lolly]

I have always avoided it. I figure smearing all those chemicals on our skin can't be good. We avoid being on in it during peak hours. What defines peak hours depends on our current level of tanness and burnability. If we are out during bad exposure times, we do use sunscreen. One dd needs to use it on her shoulders unless it is really late afternoon. The rest of her body does fine, so she doesn't put it there. I think common sense goes a long way where sun exposure is involved.

[wintermom]

I'd rather smear the chemical on my skin when I have to be out in the sun, rather than get the cancer treatment chemicals pumped into my body later. 

[Dana]

When I did the research, zinc may be safest for kids in particular.

I'll wear the nasty stuff since I've already had precancerous moles removed.

[KungFuPanda]

My son goes to MDA camp each summer. Because so many of the kids have reduced lung function, nobody is allowed to pack aerosol sunscreen or bug spray. It's not great for anyone to breath, but can be dangerous for folks who have trouble.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I struggle with this too. We are fairer skinned, and burn if in the direct sun too long. I used to spray us all down, religiously, with the Neutrogena mist stuff.

 

Then I read about how horrible it is :-/

So I tried some natural ones- spent a fortune on Badger, and a few other brands- we burned to a crisp!

 

Several times, I knew we would be out in the sun all day- and I *knew* that if we used nothing we'd be burnt, and all the natural ones we tried didn't work, and I didn't have time to test another one- so I just used the normal sprays, and tried not to think about it.

 

So, my new compromise that works fabulously for us is this:

We try to stay out of the sun as much as possible between 10 and 4, when the rays are the worst. But if we have to be in the sun, we use Blue Lizard (Baby) Australian sunscreen. It's rated as a 1 on the EWG site, and it goes on really well, and works really well. It's expensive (I buy on Amazon, anywhere from $15 to $20 for a good size bottle) but we only need it if we're in the sun during those hours, and for a long time. I bought two bottles at the beginning of summer, and haven't run out yet.

If we go to the pool when it opens at 10, we apply, but leave by lunch time, so I don't have to worry about reapplying. If we get to the pool around 2, then I don't have to reapply because we don't use it after 4. We only need to reapply if we're at the beach or pool all day long.

We tried a ton of natural sunscreens before trying Blue Lizard- and it's awesome- we'll never use anything else. (The old formula is rated as a 3, the new formula is a 1- I think they took out fragrance.)

ETA: http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/search.php?query=blue+lizard+baby



 

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I use California Baby on my kids.  I only use it on their nose, cheeks and shoulders.  I feel it's one of the safe sunscreens and I don't like for them to get burned so it's a must.

[jenslp]

What the research has shown is that gradual normal sun exposure does not cause skin cancer and can actually help prevent it since gradually building a tan reduces sun burn risk.  It's getting little to no exposure then burning that causes it.  So in many countries they are now trying to do a better job at educating people that they should be getting out without sunscreen for short times each day since its actually healthy and does not cause skin cancer when done in that way.  So many people started over doing the sunscreen that cases of rickets actually went up a ton.  So, the recommendation is short periods each day with no sunscreen and sunscreen only when out long enough to burn.  

[creekland]

We rarely use sunscreen - only when we're going to be out when it's bad and, for some reason (like swimming), are going to have more exposed sections of our body.  Then I feel it's worth it to avoid burning.

 

We will also use it when we travel south in the winter months and are spending a good part of the time outside without shade options.

 

For the vast majority of the time, we pretty much build up to it.  Since we're outside a ton, as the sun starts getting high enough to matter in the spring, we gradually build up our tans (shirts and shorts tan). The tan lasts all summer.  It's VERY rare that we burn.

 

And... when out at the beach... I had my kids wear shirts most of the time to continue avoiding sunscreen.  It worked.  I learned a t-shirt/shorts over my swimsuit did wonders too.  I've never been a bikini gal even in my youth.

 

I do buy sunscreen every year or two, but we end up throwing most of it out when it expires.

[sbgrace]

Burns are definitely bad, and childhood ones worse. Some people (me...one of my kids) are definitely going to burn, not tan.

 

So I use sunscreen on my kids (California Baby....Skindeep ranks it well) when we're in direct sun during the day. I actually think protective clothing is far superior, but a lot of older kids would be resistant to hats and long pants/long sleeve shirt sun protective clothing.

 

FWIW, 3 of 4 grandparents have had non-melanoma skin cancers here.

My husband had a close friend die at 40 from melanoma.

 

Even heavy sun exposure with no sunscreen people are almost always deficient in D. Most people aren't going to get enough from sun to make a difference, and I would never assume vitamin D is fine because I or my kids get sun.

 

 

 

[Miss Peregrine]

We use Real Purity when we use it at all because it does not have nanoparticles.

 

[Jasperstone]

I know some of you don't like this site, but it has links from Medical sources to back up what he is saying-

 

 

The Surprising Cause of Melanoma (And No, it's Not Too Much Sun)

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/20/deadly-melanoma-not-due-vitamin-d-deficiency.aspx

 

 

Personally i like to build up the exposure over time. So in winter I will sunbathe for 20 mins each side etc... So by summer my skin has a healthy tan and won't burn so readily. And if I'm going to have a long day in the sun then I use chemical free (Natural) sunscreens.

 

This is interesting too-

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8739/Sunglasses-raise-risk-of-cancer

 

Dr Moalem said: "Sunglasses make the brain think it's dark and this means you're not starting the natural process of tanning. You're more likely to burn and therefore at more risk of skin cancer."

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

I live in the country that has the highest rates of skin cancer in the world. I also live on one of the sunniest countries, where people regularly sunbake. There is a direct link to the amount of sunburn/ sun tanning and skin cancer.  there has been a reduction in skin cancer directly related to the slip, slop slap campaign that encourages slipping on a shirt, sloping on sunscreen and slapping on a hat. As well there are UV alert ratings given on every weather forecast to let us know when the peek time to avoid going out in the sun are.

 

I personally do not use sunscreen as I am allergic to it. My kids will use it if they are doing something like sailing or surfing. They always wear rash vests and boxer shorts to the beach, we never sunbake, and wear long sleeves and a hat if out in the sun in summer

 

A tan does not mean healthy skin, but rather damaged skin.

[kiwik]

I live in NZ. Our sun is fierce. Kids aren't allowed to play outside at preschool unless they have had sunscreen applied and they are wearing a hat (wide brimmed)(for six months of the year) and at school a hat must be worn though they aren't as fussy about what kind at my son's school. We have a lot of people dying of skin cancer.

 

Eta my kid also wear swim suits that cover from knee to elbow with a high neck.

[Elfknitter.#]

This is the consumer reports article I heard mentioned on the radio recently in regards to the spray on sunscreens: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/07/don-t-spray-sunscreens-on-kids-at-least-for-now/index.htm

[whitestavern]

We avoid it as much as possible but we also avoid being out in the sun smack dab middle of the day.  We usually go in our pool or to the beach after 2:00.  If we have to use sunscreen we use Baby Lizard or California Baby or Badger.  I try to avoid the sunscreens full of chemicals.  I'm with a previous poster...I don't think that baking those chemicals into our skin is good.  The mineral ones lay on top of the skin and deflect the sun.

[poppy]

Mu suggestion is to not get medical advice from random Internet people. There is much nonsense in this thread, and no not all opinions are equally valid (when it comes to science).

 

We wear sunscreen. And common sense. I look at EWG but do not take everything they say on faith.

[creekland]

Mu suggestion is to not get medical advice from random Internet people. There is much nonsense in this thread, and no not all opinions are equally valid (when it comes to science).

 

We wear sunscreen. And common sense. I look at EWG but do not take everything they say on faith.

 

While this is true to a point, one must also remember that it wasn't all that long ago that qualified medical people encouraged smoking for its health benefits...

 

IMO, it IS important to look at all aspects of any health related issue - not just copy/do what is "recommended" blindly.  I also think different things can work for different people, so there is no "one size fits all" answer just as with diets.

 

Who knows what science will show 5, 10, or 20 years from now?

 

I'll be responsible for my own choices and I prefer it that way to feeling I was led into something.

 

We never ate margarine (aside from at someone else's house to be polite) either...

 

And again, I'm not in a "never" with sunscreen either.  We limit it based upon our needs and DO feel a natural tan is healthier - no tanning beds - no lying out in the sun just baking to get a tan, which to me, would be one of the most boring things one could do, but that's beside the point.  Genetically, in our family, there has never been skin cancer beyond the basic/common mole and my whole family - both sides - were outdoors a ton between farming and living in FL.   What applies to us may not apply to others.  Research (many sides), try things, and form your own opinion.

 

[Lady Florida.]

Mu suggestion is to not get medical advice from random Internet people. There is much nonsense in this thread, and no not all opinions are equally valid (when it comes to science).

 

We wear sunscreen. And common sense. I look at EWG but do not take everything they say on faith.

 

I had to repost this as well as like it.

 

Here's some scientific information on the subject. 

[creekland]

 

I find it amazing that intelligent people can be convinced that coconut oil and frankincense can cure the world of all its ills.  These products have been around for generations and yet...

 

It is kind of a Eureka moment when one discovers that intelligent people can look at the same evidence (that which is seen and known) and come up with differing points of view and projections about the unknown future, no?

 

Yet it happens all the time with politics, religion, mommy wars, health/nutrition, homeschooling options - even just schooling options, crockpots, and so much more.  ;)

 

NOTE TO ALL:  Don't use this post as a "support" from me for coconut oil and frankincense as I haven't really looked in to either!  It's merely what it says - an acknowledgement that intelligent people can and do differ in their beliefs (based upon the known facts) about many different things.  I highly suspect this is due to their being no "one" correct answer that always works.

 

I don't see such differing opinions as to whether one should step off the face of a cliff or in front of a bus - things with obvious predictions to all.

 

There are many incidences in the past when "science" has been incorrect (value of smoking in the not so distant past) and many where it has been correct (value of eating vegetables for eons).

 

With the topic at hand, I think we all agree that burns are bad (our body assures us of this with pain), and that Vitamin D is good.  How we choose to avoid the one and keep up the other is where intelligent people DO differ.

 

My condolences on your loved one though.  :grouphug:

 

[redsquirrel]

I don't like the spray stuff but I did use it on occasion when the kids were small.

 

As a fair skinned redhead, who has two 'troublesome' spots, I use sunscreen. My kids are fair like I am and I am not going to let them get burned.

[Joker]

I love the advice about building a tan. Ha! I have red hair and fair skin, as does one of my dds, and it's impossible to build a tan. We go from fair to burnt in very short periods of time.

 

My mom has had melanoma and I've had precancerous spots removed. So, we cover up and use regular sunscreen. The so called natural and safe ones give us zero protection here.

[creekland]

I don't like the spray stuff but I did use it on occasion when the kids were small.

 

As a fair skinned redhead, who has two 'troublesome' spots, I use sunscreen. My kids are fair like I am and I am not going to let them get burned.

 

One of mine needs to use more sunscreen than either of his two brothers or either of us parents too.  We do what's needed to prevent the burn without regrets.  (A good part of this is clothing for us, but the rest can be sunscreen when needed.)

[SKL]

Why can't people share their views without putting others down?

 

I'm the one who mentioned the coconut oil.  All I said was that I heard from someone on the internet that it works.  I asked if anyone here had any info on that.  I have never used coconut oil myself.  Excuse me for asking a question on topic.

 

If you want to use sunscreen, please do so, I really do not care.

[creekland]

You know, there is objective science and there is homeschool woo+ confirmation bias.  The two are not comparable.

 

Perhaps the point that is being missed is that objective science is not always correct (or wrong).  It's unknown without years of follow up study.  It only knows the past (well, what is seen of the past, some connections are still guesses).

 

Objective science once told people smoking was good for their health.  Objective science not long ago told us plastic was better than glass due to fewer issues from breakage, etc, but now we're finding out about BPA and its issues - well after some of us used plastic for baby bottles...  Objective science told us margarine and trans fats were better for our health, but have backed off from those - long after many of my peers bought into it.

 

We know that burns are bad and Vit D is good.  What will be known about the chemicals in sunscreen is yet to be determined IMO.  Until then we all need to make our own decisions...

 

This is a whole lot different than homeschool woo + confirmation bias.

 

My usual "response" is to go with a "natural" option whenever possible, but there are times when I feel "man-made" is better (most vaccines being one of those times).  Others may prefer going with "man-made" thinking it is more often superior.  To each our own.

 

But it's not an intelligence deal for most of us.  Lack of intelligence is just blindly following Side A or Side B (often more than 2 sides) without really knowing why they do it.  Even then, all of us do THAT at some point or another as none of us can be well versed on everything.  We pick and choose our topics of interest, how deep we delve into them, and which way we generally go otherwise.

 

It is 100% human to expect everyone "with intelligence" to agree with us though... this is why it's a Eureka moment when we discover that just isn't true.  Intelligent people can, indeed, disagree for valid (science type) reasons.

 

[creekland]

Why can't people share their views without putting others down?

 

I'm the one who mentioned the coconut oil.  All I said was that I heard from someone on the internet that it works.  I asked if anyone here had any info on that.  I have never used coconut oil myself.  Excuse me for asking a question on topic.

 

If you want to use sunscreen, please do so, I really do not care.

 

Those I know who choose oils of varying types do it to help themselves get a tan more quickly.  They've been kids (high school/college) and have been more interested in their looks than anything skin related.

 

That's the extent of my limited knowledge.  I have never been tempted to use it myself, but I have heard it's a good, generic, natural, skin "lotion."  We don't use lotion of any kind much around here - no need as of yet.

 

[Carrie12345]

We don't use sunblock for every day activity (and our property is mostly wooded.)  We use Babyganics when we know we'll have some hefty sun exposure.  I'm very happy with it and my kids (fair to medium skin tones) haven't had any burns this summer even after a ton of sunny activities.  *I've* gotten a little red b/c I tend to forget to slather myself after helping all the kids.

[creekland]

Ah yes, distrust of science bc someday it may be proven wrong.

:banghead:   I give up. 

 

I do, however, suspect others reading get the drift. ;)

[whitestavern]

I find calandalsmom's posts to be inflammatory, and I'm surprised a moderator hasn't stepped in yet.

[fdrinca]

I don't give the EWG site that much weight when choosing. If you look at almost every product, you'll see that their "data availability rating" is quite low. They offer recommendations based on very little data. I think they're offered too much credit for their conjectures. 

 

I first started to question the EWG recommendations (and the power they carry) when blueberries ended up on their dirty dozen list a few years ago. 

 

As for sunscreen, I think it makes sense that you don't want to inhale suncreen and propellant, and you especially don't want children to do so. 

 

We aim for physical coverage over sunscreen, if only because of the terror of putting sunscreen on four kids. I'd rather clean toilets! Hats and long-sleeved rash guards are much easier to put on. 

 

I love sunscreen sticks for key areas (noses, eyes, ears, chins, etc). We use the types with zinc because they work well for us. I tend to believe fewer ingredients and chemicals are better, and a physical barrier is safer than chemical barrier, but I hold these beliefs much like I hold my philosophy on homeschooling or child  rearing or decorating: they're formed with some fact, lots of opinion, and a good does of pragmatism.

[gardenmom5]

Ah yes, distrust of science bc someday it may be proven wrong.

 

 

 

ah yes - that distrust of modern medical science is working out so well in west africa right now with the ebola outbreak . . . . / :svengo:

[gardenmom5]

 

As for sunscreen, I think it makes sense that you don't want to inhale suncreen and propellant, and you especially don't want children to do so. 

 

 

sadly - common sense is hardly common.

 

be warned - dd did major coveage to instead of sunblock. she ended up extremely D3 deficient.

[BrookValley.]

I find calandalsmom's posts to be inflammatory, and I'm surprised a moderator hasn't stepped in yet.

 

Common sense is inflammatory? :huh: 

 

What does a moderator need to step in for? Because people are disagreeing? That would be annoying. I think we can handle a little bit of discussion and disagreement. Sheesh.

[SKL]

If we could keep the derision out of it, then it could be a good discussion.

[fdrinca]

sadly - common sense is hardly common.

 

be warned - dd did major coveage to instead of sunblock. she ended up extremely D3 deficient.

 

Thanks for the warning. 

[BrookValley.]

Tone is hard to pick up on the internet sometimes, but I don't get derision. I'm picking up more of a "I think the opposing opinion could be dangerous" vibe. Which I don't think is a bad thing. Skin cancer kills people. Just ask my dad...oh, wait! We can't. Because he's dead. From a melanoma. Or maybe talk to my husband, who will have three separate surgeries soon because of...melanoma. If people are being a little blunt, it's probably because they care, and psuedo-science isn't going to do anyone any favors here.

[SKL]

Tone is hard to pick up on the internet sometimes, but I don't get derision. I'm picking up more of a "I think the opposing opinion could be dangerous" vibe. Which I don't think is a bad thing. Skin cancer kills people. Just ask my dad...oh, wait! We can't. Because he's dead. From a melanoma. Or maybe talk to my husband, who will have three separate surgeries soon because of...melanoma. If people are being a little blunt, it's probably because they care, and psuedo-science isn't going to do anyone any favors here.

 

So the intent is to shut down the discussion of alternatives to popular sunscreens?  "Because they care" about us total strangers?

 

Rational adults (i.e., most of us here) are capable of taking a variety of inputs and making a rational decision in the end.

[kiana]

Tone is hard to pick up on the internet sometimes, but I don't get derision. I'm picking up more of a "I think the opposing opinion could be dangerous" vibe. Which I don't think is a bad thing. Skin cancer kills people. Just ask my dad...oh, wait! We can't. Because he's dead. From a melanoma. Or maybe talk to my husband, who will have three separate surgeries soon because of...melanoma. If people are being a little blunt, it's probably because they care, and psuedo-science isn't going to do anyone any favors here.

 

The more dangerous I consider an opinion to be, the more carefully I frame my rebuttals. Bluntly combative tones usually cause people to just say "What a jerk!" and ignore everything I said, even if I'm 100% right.

[BrookValley.]

So the intent is to shut down the discussion of alternatives to popular sunscreens?  "Because they care" about us total strangers?

 

Rational adults (i.e., most of us here) are capable of taking a variety of inputs and making a rational decision in the end.

 

Not what I said/not my intent at all. I don't think anyone is attempting to "shut down the discussion." Only point out that it's likely a bad idea--backed up by good research--to forgo the sunscreen in favor of vitamins and coconut oil when there's little to nothing to suggest those methods will protect you from skin cancer.

 

FWIW, I think it's totally legit to discuss alternatives to sunscreens full of chemicals and/or spray sunscreens. Even my dermatologist recommends the zinc/mineral-based sunscreens over the chemical ones. Personally, I am not posting here to say the OP's concerns are invalid. Not at all. And I don't get the impression anyone else here is, either. Only that skin cancer is a Big Deal, so let's all be careful, eh?

 

ETA: and yes, I do care about you "total strangers" here. It might be the internet, but you're all real people on the other side of the screen somewhere. And I've lost a couple of you. To melanoma. So, yeah. It matters to me.

[BrookValley.]

The more dangerous I consider an opinion to be, the more carefully I frame my rebuttals. Bluntly combative tones usually cause people to just say "What a jerk!" and ignore everything I said, even if I'm 100% right.

 

I don't disagree, I just wasn't reading anyone's posts as combative. Blunt, yes, combative or derisive, no. But that's just me. I readily admit I may be perceiving it differently.

[Χά�ων]

Not what I said/not my intent at all. I don't think anyone is attempting to "shut down the discussion." Only point out that it's likely a bad idea--backed up by good research--to forgo the sunscreen in favor of vitamins and coconut oil when there's little to nothing to suggest those methods will protect you from skin cancer.

 

FWIW, I think it's totally legit to discuss alternatives to sunscreens full of chemicals and/or spray sunscreens. Even my dermatologist recommends the zinc/mineral-based sunscreens over the chemical ones. Personally, I am not posting here to say the OP's concerns are invalid. Not at all. And I don't get the impression anyone else here is, either. Only that skin cancer is a Big Deal, so let's all be careful, eh?

Could you share a list of sunscreens that are zinc//mineral based?

[BrookValley.]

Could you share a list of sunscreens that are zinc//mineral based?

 

We're currently using one from Banana Boat. It's their Kid's Natural Reflect or something like that. It's probably not the most natural out there, but it doesn't have the chemical sunscreen ingredients.

 

I've heard good things about Badger, but haven't tried it yet. California Baby is another, but I've heard that one is a little harder to work with (hard to rub in, leaves a white residue). The Blue Lizard mentioned upthread is another I've heard is good. I've also used Burt's Bees, Aubrey Organics, Goddess Garden, and Alba sunscreens. I just try to find something in the area of 50 spf.

[melmichigan]

My kids all wear rash guards when swimming.  We wear zinc based products when needed (I only buy those with titanium dioxide and zinc oxide as the only ingredients), since we are all blue eyed, blonde haired, with fair skin.  DH uses prescription zinc because he's had skin cancer removed.  

[fdrinca]

Could you share a list of sunscreens that are zinc//mineral based?

 

We use California Baby sunscreen stick. I agree that it's hard to rub in, but that's how I know I've put on enough:)

 

Badger has worked well for us in the past.

[melmichigan]

Mineral sunscreen hour be applied thickly. Zinc is a see and be seen sunscreen.

What does this mean?

[Miss Peregrine]

Real Purity is another one.

[Lady Florida.]

I find calandalsmom's posts to be inflammatory, and I'm surprised a moderator hasn't stepped in yet.

 

I find her posts to be straight forward and backed up by research. How is saying that science beats woo inflammatory?