Jump to content

Menu

Math Mammoth's new Pre-Algebra


Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

I thought I would share some good news with you.  According to Maria, she is preparing to release her newest MM Pre-Algebra this Fall. In response to my question about it's progress which I have been following she stated:

 

Hello Derek,

Yes, there's progress. :-)  Part 7-A (the first half) should be available in late August, as a download.

 

Sincerely,
Maria Miller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'll be using the original MM6 this year. I wonder if there will be a lot of overlap. My understanding is that for the newer MM which she aligned to CC standards she spread out the levels so that less was covered in each year thereby necessitating adding a 7th grade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'll be using the original MM6 this year. I wonder if there will be a lot of overlap. My understanding is that for the newer MM which she aligned to CC standards she spread out the levels so that less was covered in each year thereby necessitating adding a 7th grade.

 

Maria, is very open to questions.  So this would be a great one to ask her.  

 

Based on her own website she's stated that the old MM6 is not a full pre-algebra and was never intended as such.  Though it does cover 'some' pre-A topics.  I wouldn't jump right from it to Algebra even though I know some have.  Take a look at all that is covered in Dolciani, AoPS, Lials, etc.. and compare to MM6's S&S. The full scope is just not there.  But it will be in her new Pre-A which include some carry over as well.  

 

From the original MM6 User's Guide which we have as well:

 

13. How far can I use the Light Blue series? Will it cover pre-algebra or algebra?

Math Mammoth Grade 6 includes 'some' concepts that are also studied in pre-algebra (introduction to expressions & equations, ratios, percent, integers). After completing Math Mammoth grade 6, most students should be able to continue directly to pre-algebra. Also, the whole series emphasizes algebraic thinking and thus prepares students for algebra. But Math Mammoth Light Blue Series does not cover algebra 1 topics.

I am in the process of writing a full pre-algebra curriculum during 2014 (Math Mammoth Grade 7). Until then, you can read my recommendations for pre-algebra textbook & videos here.

Also, you will find worksheet collections for grade 7 (pre-algebra) and grade 8/9 (algebra 1) in the Golden Series. Being worksheets, these are supplemental and will require that a parent/teacher or an additional textbook to supply the instruction.

 

Notice the emphasis on some concepts.  Looking those over their coverage is somewhat limited with an emphasis still placed on Decimals and Percents as it should be.  I think this where some parents get tripped up think they're covering full Pre-A which is not at all the case.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Derek. Yes, my thought all along was to go from MM6 into AoPs pre-alg as I have a ds who enjoys 'ruminating' on math :D However I'm intrigued by the possibility of a MM 7. I bought MM as a full package, all grades, several years ago before she made the changes and we've been using it steadily since 4th grade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Derek. Yes, my thought all along was to go from MM6 into AoPs pre-alg as I have a ds who enjoys 'ruminating' on math :D However I'm intrigued by the possibility of a MM 7. I bought MM as a full package, all grades, several years ago before she made the changes and we've been using it steadily since 4th grade.

 

MM is so affordable I'll probably buy MM7 for our dds even if we do not use it as the spine.  I find it to be an intriguing option as well.  AoPS was great for Algebra.  But ds was not ready for it at the Pre-A stage.  This varies a lot per child.  A good place to start is with Alcumus and the free samples to give him an idea of it and see if there is a potential fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. I disagree with her there (I know - rich of me to disagree with the author, lol). The old MM6 certainly did cover MOST of pre-algebra. There was very little that needed to be added before moving a kiddo into Algebra 1, assuming the child mastered the content. I know many a user who did just that quite nicely :)

Maria, is very open to questions.  So this would be a great one to ask her.  

 

Based on her own website she's stated that the old MM6 is not a full pre-algebra and was never intended as such.  Though it does cover 'some' pre-A topics.  I wouldn't jump right from it to Algebra even though I know some have.  Take a look at all that is covered in Dolciani, AoPS, Lials, etc.. and compare to MM6's S&S. The full scope is just not there.  But it will be in her new Pre-A which include some carry over as well.  

 

From the original MM6 User's Guide which we have as well:

 

13. How far can I use the Light Blue series? Will it cover pre-algebra or algebra?

Math Mammoth Grade 6 includes 'some' concepts that are also studied in pre-algebra (introduction to expressions & equations, ratios, percent, integers). After completing Math Mammoth grade 6, most students should be able to continue directly to pre-algebra. Also, the whole series emphasizes algebraic thinking and thus prepares students for algebra. But Math Mammoth Light Blue Series does not cover algebra 1 topics.

I am in the process of writing a full pre-algebra curriculum during 2014 (Math Mammoth Grade 7). Until then, you can read my recommendations for pre-algebra textbook & videos here.

Also, you will find worksheet collections for grade 7 (pre-algebra) and grade 8/9 (algebra 1) in the Golden Series. Being worksheets, these are supplemental and will require that a parent/teacher or an additional textbook to supply the instruction.

 

Notice the emphasis on some concepts.  Looking those over their coverage is somewhat limited with an emphasis still placed on Decimals and Percents as it should be.  I think this where some parents get tripped up think they're covering full Pre-A which is not at all the case.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't have enough prealgebra resources, LOL.  I'll probably pick it up for my younger kids and possibly for a little review (the tests and such) for my boys.

 

IMO, the old MM6 was roughly half prealgebra.  Certainly one could go from that to, say, Jacobs, but I prefer a full prealgebra first instead.

 

Once all of 7 is available, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to schedule the "other half" of prealgebra to follow the old MM6, or conversely, do parts of the old MM6 followed by the entirety of new MM7.  Just thinking out loud :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I bought the mm1-6 package there was a blurb somewhere about the pre algebra program being offered at a discount of at least 35% for those who had previously purchased the package.

 

It would be good if you can locate the source. :-)

Also, she gives good discounts on her Kagi downloads during her semi-annual sale. Not 35%, but I think I've seen 25%.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. I disagree with her there (I know - rich of me to disagree with the author, lol). The old MM6 certainly did cover MOST of pre-algebra. There was very little that needed to be added before moving a kiddo into Algebra 1, assuming the child mastered the content. I know many a user who did just that quite nicely :)

 

:iagree: We followed MM6 with Lial's Pre-Algebra.  I believe there were two topics which had not been covered in MM and the difficulty level of the overlap was a big step down.  Maybe we need to start the Maria Miller Support Group:  You are far better than you know, Mrs. Miller!  (Oh, and I'm so happy for all of you who get the Pre-A program.  What I want to know is WHERE'S HER ALGEBRA CURRICULUM? You know, just a hint, in case she's reading! :001_smile: )

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Derek. That is good news.

 

I've been wondering about MM7. We are going to give AoPS Pre-A a try in the fall, but I will buy this anyway.  I am hoping it could be a good place to pull from if extra practice is needed. Plus if AoPS is a flop, we can go ahead and finish with MM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Derek. That is good news.

 

I've been wondering about MM7. We are going to give AoPS Pre-A a try in the fall, but I will buy this anyway.  I am hoping it could be a good place to pull from if extra practice is needed. Plus if AoPS is a flop, we can go ahead and finish with MM.

 

Once the new Pre-A comes out I think many will simply continue MM until Algebra.  It's really nice to have more options now.  MM7 could also be used along with other programs like AoPS Pre-A as either a supplement or the spine.  I like to have plenty of Pre-A resources.  
 
I know some have gone from the old MM6 right into Algebra 1 which speaks highly of Maria's curriculum.  Depending on the child's cognitive development it can work as some have mentioned.  However I prefer to provide more Algebra preparation before jumping right in.  The purpose of Pre-A, for me anyway, is to help build a mental bridge from primary to secondary mathematics as the child moves from concrete operations to abstract reasoning.  So reviewing primary mathematics while introducing algebraic concepts is a year well spent, IMO.  However I also think the degree of review needed vs. new algebraic content can vary on a per child basis as well.  For our son who was chomping at the bit to learn algebra we selected TabletClass Pre-A specifically because it contains more algebraic content than most Pre-A programs.  AoPS is very similar in this way.  Much of their Pre-A program is actually dedicated to introducing Algebra itself and that introduction can be quite challenging.
 
It will be very interesting to see where MM7 falls in terms of scope and challenge in comparison to other popular programs.  I guess we don't have long now to find out. ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too, am looking forward to the release of MM7. With 7A coming in August, does anyone know if there is a 7B on the horizon?

 

The way I read her email and previous discussions about developing this new Pre-Algebra program is that she is actively finishing up the first semester for this Fall.  She then plans to follow-up with the second semester before it starts.  But you could always email her to confirm this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still on the fence about buying the new edition level 5 or using the old one I have.

Fwiw, we used the old version of 5 and 6; DS will be starting algebra when we start back up. In retrospect, 6 was so similar to 5 that had I known, we would have used something different last year (like Jousting Armadillos). As it was, 6 was mostly repetitive--I can't imagine having a mathy kid do another full year of pre-A on top of it.

 

But if your child needs more time, maybe go with the newer version. I think some concepts were pushed back to the following year in the CC aligned versions (so what's covered in old 5 is now in new 6--at least somewhat).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does this mean for those of us who have her newer version? I am new to MM from Right Start. My son has covered 3 chapters  of MM5 since June, so I am hoping we can fly through 5 and most of 6 this school year. My thought was that we could transition to a Pre-algebra curriculum after we finish. Is the CC aligned version dumbed down, or will it leave us unprepared or requiring another step in between? Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe if you bought the old 5 she'll update you with the new download.

 

I purchased my 1-6 package 4 yrs ago and twice have gotten emails inviting me to update (which I did). 

 

I second emailing her.  My son did 5A and most of 5B last year.  I was on the fence about switching so I emailed her.  She was very gracious and sent me a long reply about why she recommended switching to the new 6 this fall. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does this mean for those of us who have her newer version? I am new to MM from Right Start. My son has covered 3 chapters of MM5 since June, so I am hoping we can fly through 5 and most of 6 this school year. My thought was that we could transition to a Pre-algebra curriculum after we finish. Is the CC aligned version dumbed down, or will it leave us unprepared or requiring another step in between? Thanks!

CC version is not really "dumbed down"... somewhat re-shuffled. There was a very long, detailed thread about this. Actually I think the one linked up thread. The short version is that old 6 was "almost Pre-A", but not quite. She reshuffled, meeting (and exceeding) CC. If you have new 5-6, you go directly into 7, which is unquestionably PreAlgebra.

 

I used MM extensively when I tutor. I use grade 5 with several who I'm remediating at the PreA level.

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fwiw, we used the old version of 5 and 6; DS will be starting algebra when we start back up. In retrospect, 6 was so similar to 5 that had I known, we would have used something different last year (like Jousting Armadillos). As it was, 6 was mostly repetitive--I can't imagine having a mathy kid do another full year of pre-A on top of it.

 

But if your child needs more time, maybe go with the newer version. I think some concepts were pushed back to the following year in the CC aligned versions (so what's covered in old 5 is now in new 6--at least somewhat).

My oldest did 5 and 6 original version. Well, he just did the parts in 6 that he was weaker in. I simply had him do all the reviews in the books and then had him do the sections he needed more work on. We did that while working in JA.

 

I planned on doing the same with my next ds who is just about ready to start MM 5 in a couple months.

 

I believe if you bought the old 5 she'll update you with the new download.

Good to know. However, there is the little detail about already having the entire book of 5 printed.....cause ink is not cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to know. However, there is the little detail about already having the entire book of 5 printed.....cause ink is not cheap.

Here! here! about the ink. I think 75% of what we did last year was .pdf. I've been amazed what I can do on an iPad with a small whiteboard. My tutoring students hate it. "You forgot your book- no biggie, it's right here on my iPad" :0)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really glad to hear this.  DD11 is doing 6 this coming year and I was going to have to start researching PreAlg. by Dec. since it takes me so long to settled on something.  Now I can save myself all that research!  This child has been using MM since 1st grade and I couldn't be more pleased with her progress.  Maybe she and her siblings coming up behind her will get to use MM all the way to graduation. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I contacted Maria and received a generous and detailed response. The gist is that if you're going to continue with her program for pre-alg in Grade 7 then the newer Grade 6 version of MM is the way to go. If you're going to use another pre-alg program after level 6 then the older version is fine. She said the newer version has some topics not covered in the older version (on expressions and equations) but she described the older version as 'quite advanced' so for a mathy child it's probably a good fit for going straight into something like AoPS pre-alg.

 

My current issue is that ds did the AoPS pretests for pre-alg and passed with flying colors so now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put him straight into that. Anyone gone from MM5 to AoPS pre-alg? I will add that he's also done a full year outsourced rigorous math class for home schoolers that covered topics in depth not used in MM5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DD went from MM5 to AOPS Pre-A, but as I really liked some of the sections in MM6 such as ratios, I still had her do those, which I think only took less than a week for each topic. I didn't try to line them up (I'm not that organized); I just had her use MM when we needed a brain break. Not that MM is not challenging, just that AOPS sometimes is just too much to do every single day for a younger child. It was an overall easy transition, meaning that I didn't have to go backwards to remedy anything, which is why I tend to rave about MM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I contacted Maria and received a generous and detailed response. The gist is that if you're going to continue with her program for pre-alg in Grade 7 then the newer Grade 6 version of MM is the way to go. If you're going to use another pre-alg program after level 6 then the older version is fine. She said the newer version has some topics not covered in the older version (on expressions and equations) but she described the older version as 'quite advanced' so for a mathy child it's probably a good fit for going straight into something like AoPS pre-alg.

 

My current issue is that ds did the AoPS pretests for pre-alg and passed with flying colors so now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put him straight into that. Anyone gone from MM5 to AoPS pre-alg? I will add that he's also done a full year outsourced rigorous math class for home schoolers that covered topics in depth not used in MM5.

 

Interesting, so are you saying your ds did a rigorous outsourced class and some MM5 as well?  If so she may be able to handle going right into AoPS Pre-A.  Keep in mind that AoPS readiness and fit vary wildly from one child to the next.  Did he try some Alcumus yet?  The good news is that if you buy the Pre-A book you still have MM6.  One approach I recommend is a hybrid one if you want to give AoPS a try.  Start with MM6 lets say 3 days a week, then start AoPS Pre-A for the other two.  Then monitor how it goes. If she really likes it increase the number of AoPS days and use MM6 to cover areas not yet addressed.  If AoPS doesn't go so well you can always decrease it and continue with MM6 as the spine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting, so are you saying your dd did a rigorous outsourced class and some MM5 as well?  If so she may be able to handle going right into AoPS Pre-A.  Keep in mind that AoPS readiness and fit vary wildly from one child to the next.  Did she try some Alcumus yet?  The good news is that if you buy the Pre-A book you still have MM6.  One approach I recommend is a hybrid one if you want to give AoPS a try.  Start with MM6 lets say 3 days a week, then start AoPS Pre-A for the other two.  At that point monitor how it goes and if she reallt likes it increase the number of AoPS days and use MM6 to cover areas not yet addressed as needed.  If AoPS doesn't go well you can also decrease it and continue with MM6 as the spine.

 

Yes, ds did a full outsourced year of math, 3 separate semesters focusing on one area of math each semester--algorithms, the pythagoreans and complex numbers as well as the full MM5 program. He'll be doing the same outsourced program next level up with different topics as well as whatever our own curriculum is. I'm actually looking at the online version of AoPS pre-alg so I think we'd need to commit to it fully rather than a bit here and there? Or perhaps there is room to do both? I do like the idea of filling in with MM6 anything that might be needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, ds did a full outsourced year of math, 3 separate semesters focusing on one area of math each semester--algorithms, the pythagoreans and complex numbers as well as the full MM5 program. He'll be doing the same outsourced program next level up with different topics as well as whatever our own curriculum is. I'm actually looking at the online version of AoPS pre-alg so I think we'd need to commit to it fully rather than a bit here and there? Or perhaps there is room to do both? I do like the idea of filling in with MM6 anything that might be needed.

 

Online AoPS courses run a breakneck paces over the most challenging material for their respective levels.  While it works for some it may be a bit of rough ride as an introduction to AoPS and it's discovery approach.  Hopefully others who have had their kids take these classes will share their experiences as well.  If you are seriously considering this you may want to post a thread discussing the pros/cons of the AoPS Pre-A course as an intro to AoPS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm still on the fence about buying the new edition level 5 or using the old one I have.

 

I believe if you bought the old 5 she'll update you with the new download.

 

You can send her an email. Maria is very responsive and offers great customer service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yay! This changes my plans somewhat for Pre-Algebra/7th Grade next year as I was planning on working with Dolciani's Pre-A. If someone is combining MM 7 and Dolciani's Pre-A please let me know -- if not maybe we will continue with Dolciani's odd problems and 7 worksheets.. But MM7 looks great. I'm not sure..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yay! This changes my plans somewhat for Pre-Algebra/7th Grade next year as I was planning on working with Dolciani's Pre-A. If someone is combining MM 7 and Dolciani's Pre-A please let me know -- if not maybe we will continue with Dolciani's odd problems and 7 worksheets.. But MM7 looks great. I'm not sure..

 

I think that could be overkill. Both are very thorough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my very early review of 7a:

 

I like it.

 

I'm not using it with my dd yet, although it's bite-sized enough I think it could follow Singapore 5b for an older/ strong student. She's on the young side and I want to increase her speed and reading-to-learn skills, first. She's already done some PreA, but I want her more independent before we hit Algebra. We'll probably start MM7 around Thanksgiving, adding in Real World Algebra and CTC Understanding Geometry.

 

What can be a weakness in earlier levels of Math Mammoth is an asset here: Maria explains the minute details of each step and explains why. Somehow it seems a little chattier than 6, but flipping back and forth, I can't put my finger on why I think so.

 

She walks the students through a simple proof of why negative times negative equals positive. She has a few links to more information right in the text. Because the student writes on the pages, I think the interaction with the instructions is better than copying to a notebook. I think she's done a nice job relating to a student what they would hear in a lecture portion of a class, something missing from most PreA texts, which assume the student is part of a teacher-led class.

 

How I think it compares to other PreA options:

 

Singapore 7: (I own). MM7 does a better job of explaining the why's for student and teacher. MM7 takes smaller steps. There are more problems to work (I don't have the Singapore workbook, though. It might be about even) The advanced story problems in Singapore 7 are more challenging. The answer key in Singapore 7 assumes a math teacher is using, so there are lots of "logical leaps."

 

Dolciani: (I just sold Accelerated Course and own New Edition). The most obvious difference is that the student works directly in the book for MM. For a younger student, that is an advantage. My dd worked through a few chapters of New Edition last year. MM7 is more difficult than New Edition. I would say about the same as an Accelerated Course. An obvious advantage for MM is the answer key for all problems with explanations when necessary.

 

Horizons: (I seriously considered for dd, so have looked over it carefully, but I don't own it). MM7 does a better job of explaining why something is done and seems to have better word problems. MM is much less pretty.

 

Auffman (Caulk Dust's book- I own): Caulk Dust has the advantage of the videos. The edition of this book I have (and similar to Lial's?) has lots of visual busy-ness. I don't like how the college texts teach the whole concept at the beginning of the chapter. It seems to require a lot of flipping to the front of the chapter. I think the pages do pull out of some editions of the college texts, and solution keys are fairly easy to track down.

 

AoPS: (I don't own- DD has worked through the first half of Alcumus and videos for PreA, but was not interested in looking at text after seeing samples.) AoPS excels at the discovery method. Although MM7 leads students through the process, AoPS is far more whole-to-parts. The two might actually complement each other well for some students.

 

Hope this helps someone. I will update around the first of the year when we've worked in it for a few weeks. I hope someone who is more of a mathematician than I am will look at the samples and comment.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your review, Elladarcy. My slightly-accelerated, almost-10 year old is moving quickly through 6A, and is on track to hit 7 by late spring. MM has been perfect for her (doing about 60% of the problems), so I have every intention of continuing. I'm trying to resist the temptation to buy it early; reading reviews from other users is, so far, satisfying my curiosity! Keep the info coming...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Also, regarding the 'old' and 'new' MM6, could anyone please tell me when this changed, as I'm not sure which version we have?

I think the old books have a complete mammoth on the cover. The new books are the ones you see on the web site today. They have a partial mammoth on the cover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...