Help! Advice needed!!

[MisH]

NEWBY! I will begin homeschooling my boys (ages will be 8 and 6) who were in public schools in Grades 1 and Kindy this last year. BUT, I do NOT know (still) what curriculum(s) I want!!!

I have looked at and REALLY like the idea of Trail Guide to Learning or Konos. But, here is my concern: my oldest DS has diagnosed dyslexia and dysgraphia and I suspect youngest DS has at least mild dyslexia. As such, neither are anywhere near independent readers.

So, I need help. Is there ANY kind of curriculum that is really good for very kinesthetic / visuo-spatial learners who need to be read to (aka - one where I am not just reading aloud ALL day)????

 

(fwiw....I like Classical and/or Charlotte Mason, but in looking at those kinds of curriculum, it seems like it would not be a very good fit for our family (not enough "hands-on" and WAY too much independent reading required).

[OneStepAtATime]

Hi MisH,

First, if your children are dyslexic then they need a program that will address that directly.  Something Orton-Gillingham based is usually recommended.  Are you using anything now?  There are a ton of threads right now on the LC board regarding OG programs to use.  Wilson and Barton are usually highly recommended.   Sometimes LiPS is necessary prior to those.  High Noon is another program that some have used quite successfully.  Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  Look on some of the other recent threads on this board and read through.  There is a ton of info there that might help.  As for Trail Guides, I have used it and liked it a lot.  But there were issues with my special needs kids (dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc.).  See this thread for more detailed info:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/507747-trail-guide-to-learning-series-for-learning-challenged/?hl=%2Btrail+%2Bguides&do=findComment&comment=5531295

 

Welcome to homeschooling!

[Pen]

Welcome! You will need something for math. I liked MUS when dealing with dyslexia. The pages are uncluttered, and there are hands on manipulatives and also DVDs to go with it.

 

 

Others here may have other ideas. You will need to work on their reading. We successfully used HighNoonbooks.com which may work well for an 8 year old, but the 6 year old may be too young for that still. Again, others here will have other ideas.

 

 

 

Audio books, DVD's and lots of hands on, real world learning, art, gardening, music, and so on, could make up the rest of what you do and keep you from having to read aloud all day.

 

 

 

SOTW audio was great for us for history.

 

 

 

Also, even with dyslexia, my son could learn a lot from heavily illustrated science materials for children. Random House 1000 marvels of science or a title along those lines was a favorite. It had mostly pictures, very little text. Similarly a DK or Eyewitness (? as I recall) book called In the Beginning which showed pictures of various things through history... for example, writing instruments from clay tablets to computers might be depicted with dates for the inventions of fountain pen, ball point pen, etc. possibly given. And he liked doing science kits and nature study, gardening, raising orchard mason bees and so on.

[PeterPan]

For those ages?  I'd put your money into whatever reading instruction you're going to do and *kindles* for the immersion reading. Then use your library for content (history, science, art, fiction, ebooks, audiobooks, audiobooks that sync with the ebooks).  Once a week rabbit trail something you're reading about and find an activity for it by googling.  The library will have art books, activity books for each time period, etc.  For those ages, it will be totally sufficient.

 

I have Konos btw.  I can't imagine getting that done if you're going to be doing a lot of interventions this year.  Your time would be better spent with more time on interventions (as much as 2 hours a day per child working on the reading remediation!) and let the content subjects fall to kits from Hobby Lobby (with your 40% coupon) and SOTW on audio.  The SOTW tm is straightforward to implement, and the Build Your Library plans would work.  

 

Now somebody is going to say too much intervention ruins their child's life and they need content.  Fine, I agree.  My ds is the same way.  But it doesn't have to be curriculum that meets that hunger.  Lego kits, science kits from Hobby Lobby, art kits.  Just simple things where you can have something each day but don't have to plan or do much to make it happen.  Konos, done fully, it's a TON of prep work.  I've never done it.  I got the volumes to have around to draw from, knowing I have a very kinesthetic boy.  That would be a lot to be a newbie and try to learn Barton or whatever you're going to use AND schedule Konos.  You only have so much energy to give.  Sign them up for a couple things in the community and let that give you the pizzaz.

 

Remember, you can ramp up.  Start with just 1 or 2 things the first week, then add another the 2nd week, another the 3rd, and so on.  That way you can work out the kinks.  :)

[Heathermomster]

For the 6 yo and math, maybe examine MUS or Right Start.

 

DD has mild motor planning issues and has worked with an OT for 5 weeks. In Kindie, we used LOE for handwriting.  Now that DD is first grade, I use Start Write software and print up sentences for her to copy using a manuscript font.  She is presently copying her name and one sentence per day.  For literature, we are using ELTL1.   HWT has a new keyboarding program that we may try.

 

Hands-on science and history are my favorite.  Hands-on science and history for DD means dragging out maps, the globe, a Beautiful Feet book, watching Wild Kratt videos, collecting leaves for her nature journal, planting seeds, butterfly kits, and using her Magiscope, which she loves.  We own a ton of books about nature, weather, and animals.  My DD currently requests maps and animal coloring pages that she colors alongside science and history.  DD likes to tell me animal facts , so I type what she wants, insert a picture, and then hand it over for her to color.  If you live near Hobby Lobby, definitely print up a coupon and have your boys pick out a science kit.  VP sells history kits that look appealing.

 

Since both of yours boy are likely dyslexic, maybe consider Barton for reading instruction.  

 

[MisH]

Thank you all for the replies!!!

 

Wondering how does Barton compare to Saxon Phonics (based on Orton Gillingham)???? I used about half of the first level of that with DS1, but stopped because he just got too frustrated (likely due to the combo of phonics + writing (copywork/spelling AND, possibly, because we were doing it in conjunction with public school (1/2 day kindy)). He did make tremendous progress though (e.g., understood the rules and continued to use them during school work at public school).

So, if Barton (which seems to be pricey???) is similar to Saxon, I am not sure I would want to switch! In looking at Barton, I do like the "tiles" and color coded aspects.....but difficult to tell if it would be different enough to be helpful without begin frustrating!

 

Also - how is the "carryover" with regard to the Barton program (i.e., great to learn with the tiles that are color coded, but does that carry over to "real" reading when the words are in books/on paper and it is not color coded)?????

 

And finally..... as a newbie....I am not sure I have the knowledge or confidence of how or WHAT to do to just "throw stuff together" (e.g., NOT have  "a" curriculum, but to use a phonics program + a math program (this I can do), but also, include history, science, etc with random stuff....) and figure out how to keep track/records of all of it??!! (fwiw....*I* have read about, understand, and expect this first year to be a bit of "deschooling" and trial and error and that it will take a year or two to figure it out a bit.....BUT....hubby (as well as the rest of family) is pretty hesitant about homeschooling at all and if there is not "progress", will expect me to have our boys go back to public school the next year :(  Hubby is supportive.....but only to a certain extent with regards to this decision!

[OneStepAtATime]

Hugs...I have never used Saxon so cannot speak to it.  Barton breaks everything down into very small pieces and rebuilds all those pieces in many different ways, not just with tiles, and does this over and over at every level, building layer after layer, with practical application of what is done on the tiles at the beginning of each lesson applied in reading/writing/spelling etc. for every single lesson.  It is teacher intense and must be done one on one but replaces all other language arts material for at least the first 3-4 levels.  After that you can incorporate outside grammar/writing to go alongside Barton.  Not every child will respond well to Barton.  But NT kids can also use Barton.  It tends to work very well for most dyslexic kids, but not all.

 

See this thread for some additional info:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/494226-lips-by-lindamood/?hl=lips

 

The thread is very long and starts off mainly dealing with LiPS but there is a ton of info on Barton in there, pros and cons.  It might help you.

 

Hugs.  You aren't alone.  Lots of parents have been where you are.  Just read past posts.  You will find the right path.  It just may take a bit... :)

[Heathermomster]

If you haven't done so already, maybe pick up a copy of the Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides and Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz.  Start with the Shaywitz book to gain a better understanding of reading, brain functioning, and MRI studies.  All that may seem complicated, but these books are very easy to read.  

 

At this moment, reading instruction is critical followed by math.  If your eldest child is not reading well by now, hire a tutor three days per week or pick up Barton.

 

You can rotate history and science every other week.  In spite of the dyslexia, you can purchase any curricula that you like and tweak it to make it work for your family.  Mercy, I have never followed homeschool materials as written.  For literature, DS listened to audio books and completed projects that were based upon the book.  If you haven't done so already, sign up for Bookshare and check out Learning Ally. 

 

For hands-on science, you could combine the boys and take a unit study approach with lab kits from Gems.  The idea is to expose your children to science and whet their appetite for more learning.  Most science covered now will be seen again at the logic and rhetoric stage.  

 

As to your DH and extended family...Many people do not understand the nature of dyslexia and have preconceived ideas and expectations.  All I can say is this...Read all that you can and gently teach your spouse.  I pulled my DS from a regular classroom in 5th grade and life became instantly better.  The ton of after schooling that DS and I endured more than prepped us both for homeschooling.  You control the agenda and decide where the learning emphasis needs to be.  My son's SAT-10 scores took a mighty leap....And you can't please everyone.  I'm 44 years old and my mother still struggles with my DD being home, in spite of the fact that she has friends, is well adjusted, started Latin (that's a family first), starts ballet in a couple of week (another family first), and wallops on math.

[MisH]

Heathermomster

Thanks :)

 

I have read Overcoming Dyslexia (as well as several other books on Dyslexia) and my background / degree is that of a Speech-Language Pathologist/Speech Therapist (though sadly with NO training or education during schooling re: dyslexia specifically AND worked in a medical setting (large hospital) with mostly adult acute care patients (e.g. strokes, Parkinson's etc) rather than in a school system working with kids)! So, I am, overall, pretty confident in my understanding of dyslexia, language acquisition and all of that.....What I am NOT confident about is HOW to go about teaching my boys to work WITH them and their learning styles (rather than fighting that as the school system seems designed to do)!!!

 

My dad has (undiagnosed) dyslexia (as does my brother and now, his son (age 7)), so he FULLY grasps what my son(s) going through. BUT, we all grew up in a "typical" public school setting with the "following the societal rules" kind of mind set. So, me "doing homeschool" is just kind of a WOW to everyone (and of course all of the "typical" questions  like "but what about socializing" and "but what about high school" and "but how can YOU do EVERYTHING" etc etc etc).

 

My boys already LOVE science, so I know that that will be a key "topic" in our homeschool ..... And, I love the idea of unit studies that tie together the concepts from history, language, science, etc (which is why I like the idea of Trail Guide).... My oldest IS now reading (he can read a "Level 1-2" book), but is in no way capable of reading well enough to do "independent reading" tasks.

 

Part of the issue (I do realize it! :) is MY need for a well organized "plan" and until *I* have a bit of experience with this homeschooling stuff....I don't even know where to start with a "plan" :) So, on some level, I suppose I am just going to have to "suck it up" and wing-it a bit and *have to* be ok with that!!!

 

So...(if you've gotten this far, THANK YOu, THANK YOU, THANK YOu!!), I very, very VERY much appreciate all ideas and advice regarding curriculum (I'd not heard of Math U See, for example) as it is VERY much helping me to feel a bit more organized as I list out possible options for each topic (rather than just the "all in one" stuff!)!!!

 

 

[Pen]

...

 

And finally..... as a newbie....I am not sure I have the knowledge or confidence of how or WHAT to do to just "throw stuff together" (e.g., NOT have  "a" curriculum, but to use a phonics program + a math program (this I can do), but also, include history, science, etc with random stuff....) and figure out how to keep track/records of all of it??!! (fwiw....*I* have read about, understand, and expect this first year to be a bit of "deschooling" and trial and error and that it will take a year or two to figure it out a bit.....BUT....hubby (as well as the rest of family) is pretty hesitant about homeschooling at all and if there is not "progress", will expect me to have our boys go back to public school the next year :(  Hubby is supportive.....but only to a certain extent with regards to this decision!

 

What does your place of residence legally require in terms of record keeping?

 

If you get the Story of the World audios and listen to them with your boys, discuss, do the activities from activities book if that is something the boys would like (they are boys I think, if not, sorry, substitute girls)--my son did not like the activities, but loved listening to the CD's over and over--you will be way ahead of most school history programs.  One of our relatives who was against homeschool was pretty impressed by my ds telling him he was studying history from the earliest nomads to the fall of the USSR.  

 

If you get some science DVDs (getting a Netflix membership was a great thing that I should have done years earlier), such as Iain Stewart's Earth, Carl Sagan's Cosmos, Attenborough's various films about nature and animals, and perhaps the Connections series, They will also know a lot about a variety of science areas.

 

You can then put your focus for teaching time and energy on remediating reading and working on math.

[dancingmama]

Start with focusing on reading. Then when you have that down add math and then writing and so on and so forth. Your kids are still young and will learn through lots of play. You might consider the Magic School Bus science kits as your kids love science. They come once a month and have everything laid out. I agree for history the SOTW cd's would be great to listen too for history.

 

Breathe. You can do this.

[OneStepAtATime]

I also suggest you look into homeschooling groups in your area that might do field trips, play dates, etc.  If the family sees that other families in the area are doing this successfully and that your kids can participate with them, they might feel better.  Are there any homeschooling conventions in your area?  What convinced my DH was in part going to a very large homeschooling convention a few hours away.  He saw hundreds of people there, most looking pretty darn normal (not that I'm all that normal :). ) and saw all the vendors with all the materials available and he realized this isn't some fringe thing for paranoid introverts and weirdos.   :lol:

[Heathermomster]

Op, I looked over at the Trail Guide to Learning series that you have mentioned and it looks awesome.  Just give yourself permission to tweak it.  Based upon one sample, I saw that there was copywork, dictation, and spelling.  Maybe consider dropping all of that, especially with your oldest.  He can provide oral narrations and you can scribe for him.  Spelling should come from the reading program that you select.  Socratic questioning, discussion, and mapwork are great for students.  Maybe go over to Bookshare and LearningAlly to see which books are available and use audio with the boys.  

 

Make typing a priority with your eldest.  I taught DS to type in 5th grade and it has given him a degree of independence that we both appreciate.  He typed for 20 minutes daily, with one break in the middle using a Typer Island program.  I set the wpm to the lowest setting and stressed accuracy over speed.  HWT is now selling a Keyboarding Without Tears product that looks interesting.  

 

You can do this.  

[PeterPan]

MisH, the GEMS guides include suggested reading lists.  For the ages you have, they would be a complete science.  

 

Have you seen the Christian Cottage Unit Studies?  The author of those was teaching a 2E dyslexic.

[1shortmomto4]

Since this is your first year of homeschooling - take it slow.  You'll need time to figure out your way of teaching and truly how your children learn.  Age appropriate hands-on learning right now is probably a given - most kids fit that learning style at this stage of their lives so things may change over the next year or so and you all settle in to a new way of life.  If you like the Charlotte Mason style check out Heart of Dakota.  You don't have to do all their suggestions but it would be a strong framework for the year for you to follow - open and go until you find your feet and decide what works for you (i.e., winging it, making it up as you go along, or needing something scripted).  I think that may be the draw towards the Paths option.  Two more ideas would be signing up for Amanda Bennett's unit studies - she offers specials each week at that are $5 a piece.  Easy to download, follow along day by day (although I end up taking way more than a day for the day's assignments) and they are full visual links, cooking, maps - some copy work (which would not be the end of the world if you don't do).  You could purchase a few units and work through them and see how you do - small financial commitment.  Story of the World is great, too.  The activity book has maps and project ideas so you could easy do that a few times a week and it is easy to combine the kids together.  And finally, give Beautiful Feet a look as they have a gentle early American program that might be a great fit for your first year.  As for science, I'm a new fan of Nancy Larson science.  It is expensive but it is complete.  It includes all ways of learning and it was very engaging.  This is one program that if I had an opportunity for do-overs in life I would have used this sooner and the cost would have been less than all the failed attempts at everything else I bought in the early elementary years!!!  She also provides book lists for the library for those who want more but probably pretty easy to come up with some on your own based on the subject at the library.  

 

Just take it slow and steady - it'll all come together.

[MisH]

I cannot thank you all enough for all of the advice, suggestions and calming words! Tremendously helpful to me!!! I do feel much more calm now - having read through everything and googled alot of it to look at more in depth! It helps me to feel more comfortable and confident that I don't, necessarily, have to have EVERYTHING all planned out AT THIS MOMENT! :laugh:

 

 

 

[Tokyomarie]

I agree with others to choose reading/language arts plus math curriculum that is multi-sensory and will meet your needs for developing foundational academic skills in the dyslexic student.

 

As for the content areas of literature, social studies (geography & history), and science, another option to consider is Five in a Row. FIAR uses good, classic picture books as the central piece around which a unit is build. The parent reads the story aloud each day and then chooses activities to extend the ideas that children are introduced to in the story. The manuals give ideas for activities and research into topics. I found that once I got the hang of the FIAR concept, I was able to generate ideas myself for extending the learning. The main FIAR curriculum is said to be most appropriate for ages 4-8, but one of my children with dyslexia was about 10-11 years old. She learned a ton, and because of the unit study approach, we could extend the learning to a higher level when she was interested.

 

In addition, we used a lot of DK and Usborne books for history and science info, which she responded to because she is such a visual learner. My son also watched a lot of Magic School Bus and other video programs when he was younger, then graduated to PBS documentaries and other such adult level programs by the time he was 10 or 11.

[PeterPan]

Marie, thank you for that!  You just pulled together threads in my mind I had been trying to figure out.   :)  I couldn't reconcile the "history is done with a spine" with my attraction to books with extensions for ds (FIAR, living math, history hands-on, etc.).  I kept viewing them as separate things and then couldn't figure out how in the world we'd get done BOTH the books with extensions AND more traditional spine work.  You're right though, if we let the books with extensions be enough, suddenly it makes sense!  I got him a timeline and the timeline figures from Geomatters.  They're just cute enough for this age and easy to work with.  I figure we'll print, color, cut and paste, nothing fancy.  I think you're right that their brains just take all this disparate information and pull it together and make connections. And I agree, we could keep doing this for a fair number of years.  

 

Thanks   :)

[Tokyomarie]

Elizabeth, I started with the FIAR concept and had been doing that for awhile when I got introduced to the whole TWTM version of classical education. While there are elements of the classical approach I like, I feel now like I jumped ship from the unit study/FIAR sort of approach too early in my son's education. If I had it to do over again, I would skip the first 4yr "cycle" of history and wait until probably 5th grade to jump into the chronological approach. I also wouldn't try to do much memory work with a dyslexic student like my son who gets more out of constructing his web of knowledge based on narratives. My son LOVED what we did with FIAR and I squashed his love of learning by giving that up. What we did wasn't all bad. It was still literature based, and he loved the literature, but it required too much written output too early in the game. He just couldn't handle memory work and written output at that young age.

[PeterPan]

Thank you Marie, those are things I've been wondering!! And yes, that's where I am this 2nd time around.  It just does NOT seem important to have everything be tidy and in order the first time through.  Any order, any method will do, because the whole point was pegs.  And these kids are such in-context, narrative learners, it just makes sense.  And it gives you the flexibility not to see things so separately, with living books for math, books to inspire your art, books to look at for lit, books to look at for history.  Instead it's just the book we want to look at and milking it.  Love.  Totally fits him.

 

Just as an aside, are you in a state that requires testing?  I'm trying to decide how to handle my ds.  Our state requires either testing (beginning in 1st or when they're 6 as of the cut-off) OR a portfolio review with a certified teacher.  I don't know that I can find a teacher who has has helpful feedback for ds' issues (to do more than blank check whatever I do) and I certainly won't do a review to be given advice from someone who leads me astray from what is appropriate.  But with a dc who isn't likely to read for some time, I can't give him a standardized test either.  This would be for a year (plus 9 months) from now, but I'm just saying the writing is on the wall.  He's taking a lot longer to do things than other kids, like in his swim classes, etc.  A year is not going to change who he is.  My other option is to homeschool under the private school option.  I'm then on my own, to my own recognizance, but I have to file the paperwork well in advance.  So basically it's a decision that has to be made this coming school year about how to handle something not due for another year, oy.  Any thoughts?