Counseling/Therapy, my teen Aspie

[DawnM]

we have found a great counselor who specializes in teen Asperger boys.  My son has gone about 7 times so far.  He likes the guy and I thought things were going swimmingly.

 

However, last week, when I told my son he had an appt he started complaining.  

 

Why do I have to go there?

Why do you have to pay someone to listen to me?

Am I that horrible of a human that I have to pay someone to talk to me?

 

 

There were more comments, but those were the gist of the sentiments.

 

How do I word this so that he won't feel bad about going or feel that he is somehow inferior?

 

So far I have explained that everyone needs help now and then and that this counselor helps teens who have Asperger's adjust to adult life, etc.....that hasn't helped his attitude.

 

Dawn

 

[OneStepAtATime]

No suggestions but  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .  

[DawnM]

He is going today and I told him and he just said, "Ok."

 

ARGH!!!!!!!  I guess it depends on his mood.  Glad today is ok, but still want some thoughts on how to handle this in the future when it isn't ok.

[Princess Ariel]

nt

[albeto.]

we have found a great counselor who specializes in teen Asperger boys.  My son has gone about 7 times so far.  He likes the guy and I thought things were going swimmingly.

 

However, last week, when I told my son he had an appt he started complaining.  

 

Why do I have to go there?

Why do you have to pay someone to listen to me?

Am I that horrible of a human that I have to pay someone to talk to me?

 

 

There were more comments, but those were the gist of the sentiments.

 

How do I word this so that he won't feel bad about going or feel that he is somehow inferior?

 

So far I have explained that everyone needs help now and then and that this counselor helps teens who have Asperger's adjust to adult life, etc.....that hasn't helped his attitude.

 

Dawn

 

Well, why is he going there? Why not tell him that reason? I think "everyone needs help now and then" is terribly vague, and if I were given that answer, I'd wonder what is being kept from me, what the real reason is, kwim?

 

I'm a bit torn on the issue. We've used the services of various therapists for years. Some results have been utterly fantastic, others quite disastrous. Understanding human behavior in any reliable, objective way is in its infancy, and we're really trusting a lot of anecdotal stories to be accurate reflections of reality at this point. Counselors and therapists are among the biggest culprits of this, I think, through no fault of their own but because of the nature of the beast. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has data to suggest its efficiency, but the last time I looked into this, psychological therapy did not show statistical benefit for people on the autistic spectrum. I would discuss this with your child often, talk with the therapist often, and find out just what your son is getting out of this. It may be nothing, it may be some really helpful insight. You can't know without actively exploring this. 

[Ivey]

He is going today and I told him and he just said, "Ok."

 

ARGH!!!!!!!  I guess it depends on his mood.  Glad today is ok, but still want some thoughts on how to handle this in the future when it isn't ok.

Yea, for my kid it would completely depend on his mood. If Ds forgets about an appointment and makes other plans (even if it's just a vague mental plan to play video games or watch tv), he'll fake a stomach ache and complain the whole way there. If he remembers, or I keep up with my reminders, and he plans his day around the appointment, he's fine. This goes for counseling, tutoring, etc. 

 

I do agree that being more specific with him about why he's seeing a counselor might help ease his mind. Ds knows why he started counseling, what the current goals are, and that he'll likely be seeing a counselor for a long time. 

[DawnM]

The specific reason is to help him to transition to adulthood.  I have told him that.

 

We do not feel that he will last on any job or at any school with the way he reacts to people when under stress or when he is frustrated.  THAT I don't want to tell him because he truly thinks he has no problem and it is everyone else's problem.  THAT is where the counselor needs to step in.  

 

He has tantrums, yells, gets angry, says everyone else is stupid, or otherwise cannot cope with real life.  

 

We have tried to explain to him for years that his reactions to things are not appropriate.  He doesn't believe us.  Heck, he sees the results at church, scouts, and outside the home, but he still doesn't GET IT.  He really doesn't.  

we are at the end of our rope with all of it.  We have no idea how to help at this point.  We have talked until we are blue in the face.  We have used scenarios and asked what he thinks.  He truly can't see it.

 

He went to a party last week.  He decided that all the kids there were too "public schooled" and into things he wasn't into, so he went into the host's kitchen and told her he didn't like the people she invited and that he was above talking about those silly, childish things like "those" kids.

 

Thankfully, she is a friend and let it slide, but that is simply not appropriate, in fact it is downright rude.  If we called him on it, he would not only not see it, he would be angry at us for making such a big deal about it when he knows he was in the right.

[DawnM]

I have watched Big Bang.  My son is Sheldon, but minus the genius portion, which is a huge deal too.  

 

On the way home yesterday he commented again that he doesn't find this beneficial and would like to stop going.  I told him that we will go through the remainder of the summer and then discuss is.  I also told him that it won't hurt anything, even if it doesn't truly help.

 

He likes the counselor, so that isn't the issue.

 

My son goes on a trip the first week of Aug.  I think I may make an appt. to see the counselor myself then and discuss a bit.

 

Dawn

[MomatHWTK]

Tell him it is part of his school and give him credit for the time? 

[Dmmetler]

Would the therapist be amenable to working via Skype or WebEx? My DD works with a counselor this way, and the counselor says remote sessions often work well for kids who need a high level of control to feel comfortable because they're at home, and they can disconnect at any time. Once they're comfortable with the delivery, progress can happen much faster. We ended up with this because the person recommended was out of state and too far to drive, but it's really worked well.

[albeto.]

The specific reason is to help him to transition to adulthood.  I have told him that.

 

We do not feel that he will last on any job or at any school with the way he reacts to people when under stress or when he is frustrated.  THAT I don't want to tell him because he truly thinks he has no problem and it is everyone else's problem.  THAT is where the counselor needs to step in.  

 

He has tantrums, yells, gets angry, says everyone else is stupid, or otherwise cannot cope with real life.  

 

We have tried to explain to him for years that his reactions to things are not appropriate.  He doesn't believe us.  Heck, he sees the results at church, scouts, and outside the home, but he still doesn't GET IT.  He really doesn't.  

we are at the end of our rope with all of it.  We have no idea how to help at this point.  We have talked until we are blue in the face.  We have used scenarios and asked what he thinks.  He truly can't see it.

 

He went to a party last week.  He decided that all the kids there were too "public schooled" and into things he wasn't into, so he went into the host's kitchen and told her he didn't like the people she invited and that he was above talking about those silly, childish things like "those" kids.

 

Thankfully, she is a friend and let it slide, but that is simply not appropriate, in fact it is downright rude.  If we called him on it, he would not only not see it, he would be angry at us for making such a big deal about it when he knows he was in the right.

 

 

These are still pretty vague. I mean, I know what you mean, but if I were to break it down for someone who doesn't get it, it might sound like this:

 

When you are older and ready to live by yourself, you'll need to be responsible for expenses. Groceries cost money, but so too does rent, electricity, even water. These things add up and you'll be responsible to pay for these things each and every month. Most people have a job to earn money, but in order to keep a job, one must learn to deal with others efficiently. 

 

Look kid, I get frustrated too. I think and feel and believe the same things you do, but I've learned to keep those thoughts in my head when they pop up. When I keep them in my head, I don't say or do something that makes another person really angry. People who are angry aren't going to want to go out of their way to help you. The trick is to make people happy to see you, and to do that, sometimes you go out of your way to help them. It's called cooperation, and sometimes it bites, but sometimes it's the best thing for us. We never know when it's going to be, but that's how most people operate. And you can better believe they learn to keep their thoughts in their heads too. 

 

One resource I've found to be most helpful was a book (now CD only) called Learning the R.O.P.E.S. for Improved Executive Function. It gives very concrete organizational tools for the individual to learn how to pay attention to certain details, details that you and I likely take for granted but not all kids naturally pick up. The more details they have, the more dots they can connect, and that's really the goal, isn't it? To teach him how to connect the dots when no one is around telling him what to do? I like it also because it divorces the concrete information from the emotional component. That's not to say the emotional component isn't there, it is included, but as a piece of concrete information to be identified and analyzed appropriately. That's helpful for our kids who don't do so well with that naturally. 

 

If you're not familiar with Wrong Planet forums, I'd encourage you to check them out, and I'd encourage you to have your son check them out. He can get all kinds of specific, personal, helpful advice from people who have btdt from his point of view. 

[Jennifer-72]

I love the ROPES book! I just wanted to mention that you can still buy the book with the cd from ABTA http://www.abtaproducts.com/publications.htm. Hopefully that link works. I am on the iPad so it is 50/50 shot at best!

[DawnM]

He simply doesn't care to know any of that.  He thinks he is fine.  He doesn't understand why we think there will be/or is a problem.

 

 

These are still pretty vague. I mean, I know what you mean, but if I were to break it down for someone who doesn't get it, it might sound like this:

 

When you are older and ready to live by yourself, you'll need to be responsible for expenses. Groceries cost money, but so too does rent, electricity, even water. These things add up and you'll be responsible to pay for these things each and every month. Most people have a job to earn money, but in order to keep a job, one must learn to deal with others efficiently. 

 

Look kid, I get frustrated too. I think and feel and believe the same things you do, but I've learned to keep those thoughts in my head when they pop up. When I keep them in my head, I don't say or do something that makes another person really angry. People who are angry aren't going to want to go out of their way to help you. The trick is to make people happy to see you, and to do that, sometimes you go out of your way to help them. It's called cooperation, and sometimes it bites, but sometimes it's the best thing for us. We never know when it's going to be, but that's how most people operate. And you can better believe they learn to keep their thoughts in their heads too. 

 

One resource I've found to be most helpful was a book (now CD only) called Learning the R.O.P.E.S. for Improved Executive Function. It gives very concrete organizational tools for the individual to learn how to pay attention to certain details, details that you and I likely take for granted but not all kids naturally pick up. The more details they have, the more dots they can connect, and that's really the goal, isn't it? To teach him how to connect the dots when no one is around telling him what to do? I like it also because it divorces the concrete information from the emotional component. That's not to say the emotional component isn't there, it is included, but as a piece of concrete information to be identified and analyzed appropriately. That's helpful for our kids who don't do so well with that naturally. 

 

If you're not familiar with Wrong Planet forums, I'd encourage you to check them out, and I'd encourage you to have your son check them out. He can get all kinds of specific, personal, helpful advice from people who have btdt from his point of view. 

 

[Jennifer-72]

The ROPES book is really excellent for exactly what you are talking about. As you know, children with autism often have trouble seeing the relationship between their actions and the consequence that ensue. ROPES uses a series of graphic organizers to teach the whole situation-action-outcome line of thinking. Developing that line of thinking goes a long way with helping them realize that everything is not happening to them but is a result of the actions they are taking (which often is part of their whole negative thinking/grumbling). She also talks in the book how thinking through situation-action-outcome is how we all set goals and priorities.

[DawnM]

Thanks.  I will take a look.  Not sure he will work with me on any of it though.  

 

I would LOVE to send him to one of the schools in this area for Asperger kids, but they are $20K and we just can't do it.

[Tokyomarie]

I wish it were easier for you, Dawn. It's hard when the extent of a teen's challenges are not fully identified until the teen years. By that time, they've been off the typical developmental track for so long that they have a lot of ingrained habits and no experience with professionals who are trained in guiding kids with atypical development. Anything you start with teens will take time to make a difference. With the right professionals, it can make a difference, but there are no quick fixes. 

 

Fortunately for parents of young children today, there is a lot more support and earlier diagnosis available than there was for young people who are now teens or young adults.  Hopefully, they will not have to deal with as many of the difficulties when their children are older. That doesn't help those who have older children today.

 

Different set of circumstances, but I told my son that the one overriding goal is for him to become a productive member of society who can earn his own living and manage the tasks needed for living outside of Mom & Dad's house. Because the professional assessment showed there were certain skills that needed to develop in order for that goal to be met, as long as he was under 18, he needed to be involved with professionals who could help us.

 

If you haven't yet got a sense for the goals the counselor has set and what he is doing- generally- in sessions to meet those goals, you may need to have a sit down with this person and have him help you understand his plan and come up with language to use with your son.

 

Another thought: your son only has 2 years or less until he is a legal adult. Do you see him being able to function as an independent adult at some point? If not, you'll need to address those issues. Also, do you have any plan for the development of occupational skills? It sounds like you'll need to develop a plan to help him develop skills and it may need to include services that the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation in your state can provide. Perhaps the person who made your son's diagnosis and/or his current counselor could help you think through those issues. You don't have much longer to get a plan together so now is the time to think about it, even if your son seems to think it's not an issue.

 

[DawnM]

Yes, I wish we had had this diagnosis before now as well.

 

We plan to give my son 3 more years to finish high school (so he will finish at 19.)  Part of the problem is that his best buddy is not only finishing in 2, but will be attending the local CC this fall and most likely get 2 years under his belt before going to a very good school.  My son either feels really stupid compared to others or thinks he is somehow better than they are.  We are trying to get him to see that there is a whole world of Gray and in-between that he seems to be missing.  

 

So that is ONE huge goal we have with the counselor.

 

Another goal we have set is in helping my son to see that things take TIME and just because he can't play the piano from day 1 the same as the kid who has had lessons for 7 years, doesn't mean he should give up.  He doesn't get it.

 

YES, one huge goal is to help HIM become a productive member of society (hold a job, live on his own, etc...) but it is also to help US to learn how better to help him.

 

He blames me for a lot of things which is very hard for me.  He blames me for his LDs and his inability to be at grade level, but he bucks me at every turn when I try to teach him.  He is very frustrated with himself and often takes it out as anger towards the rest of us.  

 

So another goal has been to help him deal with his anger issues.

 

Dawn

 

I wish it were easier for you, Dawn. It's hard when the extent of a teen's challenges are not fully identified until the teen years. By that time, they've been off the typical developmental track for so long that they have a lot of ingrained habits and no experience with professionals who are trained in guiding kids with atypical development. Anything you start with teens will take time to make a difference. With the right professionals, it can make a difference, but there are no quick fixes. 

 

Fortunately for parents of young children today, there is a lot more support and earlier diagnosis available than there was for young people who are now teens or young adults.  Hopefully, they will not have to deal with as many of the difficulties when their children are older. That doesn't help those who have older children today.

 

Different set of circumstances, but I told my son that the one overriding goal is for him to become a productive member of society who can earn his own living and manage the tasks needed for living outside of Mom & Dad's house. Because the professional assessment showed there were certain skills that needed to develop in order for that goal to be met, as long as he was under 18, he needed to be involved with professionals who could help us.

 

If you haven't yet got a sense for the goals the counselor has set and what he is doing- generally- in sessions to meet those goals, you may need to have a sit down with this person and have him help you understand his plan and come up with language to use with your son.

 

Another thought: your son only has 2 years or less until he is a legal adult. Do you see him being able to function as an independent adult at some point? If not, you'll need to address those issues. Also, do you have any plan for the development of occupational skills? It sounds like you'll need to develop a plan to help him develop skills and it may need to include services that the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation in your state can provide. Perhaps the person who made your son's diagnosis and/or his current counselor could help you think through those issues. You don't have much longer to get a plan together so now is the time to think about it, even if your son seems to think it's not an issue.

 

[Guest]

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[DawnM]

Thanks all.  I just feel so defeated with this child.  And just when things seem to be going better, bam, it crashes again.

[MomatHWTK]

I have found the combination of ASD and teen hormones to be my biggest challenge yet (and we've had quite a few to compare).  I talked to someone with an adult ASD who drives AND has a girlfriend and attends college.  She said somewhere around age 20 a switch just seemed to go off in his brain.  So- I'm going to cling to that hope. ;)  DS is very unhappy with hiself right now.

 

The teen years are so fixated on comparison fitting in/rebellion and he is really thrown by all those extra feelings. 

[DawnM]

I have ordered the ROPES book.  I hope it is good as it was almost $50!

[Guest]

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[albeto.]

He simply doesn't care to know any of that.  He thinks he is fine.  He doesn't understand why we think there will be/or is a problem.

 

I think the ROPES book will help you share with him just where he could use some help. His frustrations, his irritation and anger directed at you, these are things he can learn to identify as problems with ineffective solutions. For example, he wants to play the piano. The problem is, he can't get what he wants. The solution is to learn. Now the problem is that he can't learn fast enough to appease his desire. The ROPES book has organizational tools to help him identify his frustrations, brainstorm various solutions, anticipate possible outcomes for these solutions, and learn to identify the reality of these events.

 

This last one was a real eye opener for my child. Using one chart to predict how long a math lesson might take, for example, he predicted "infinity." He would never finish. We recorded that prediction (partly because he'd just learned about infinity and the infinity symbol, but also because it wasn't important to be accurate). We recorded the beginning and end times. We did this a number of days. His predictions became more realistic because he had the data in front of him and could see a trend literally rather than conceptually. This is the kind of thing your son can use with regard to playing piano (or any goal he has but feels frustrated that it doesn't come immediately). Looking at data, he can see the link between minutes practiced and the complexity of songs he has learned to play. 

 

I would maybe approach all this from a very self centered point of view. It may sound counter productive, but let me explain. As he learns to identify his desires, he learns to identify the variables that contribute to achieving his goals. Knowing these variables that provide access to or obstacles from his goals can help him make better plans, more efficient plans. In this way he'll increase his likelihood of reaching his goals. Social skills is a part of this, and the more he's internally motivated to learn the intricacies of social communication, the more skills he'll have. Like most things, the more skills we have in something, the easier it is, the more enjoyable it is. 

 

As far as turning 18 and being a legal adult, I would encourage you to keep open communication about "one day" when he's ready to spread his wings and venture out on his own. I wouldn't use age as an end goal, especially if he's easily frustrated and gets mad. Instead I would help him shoot for practical goals, keeping any age related goals to yourself. That way you can modify them as you see fit without worrying him unnecessarily. 

[cherylswope]

This last one was a real eye opener for my child. Using one chart to predict how long a math lesson might take, for example, he predicted "infinity." He would never finish. We recorded that prediction .... We recorded the beginning and end times. We did this a number of days. His predictions became more realistic because he had the data in front of him and could see a trend literally rather than conceptually.

 

....As he learns to identify his desires, he learns to identify the variables that contribute to achieving his goals. Knowing these variables that provide access to or obstacles from his goals can help him make better plans, more efficient plans. In this way he'll increase his likelihood of reaching his goals. Social skills is a part of this, and the more he's internally motivated to learn the intricacies of social communication, the more skills he'll have. Like most things, the more skills we have in something, the easier it is, the more enjoyable it is. 

 

As far as turning 18 and being a legal adult, I would encourage you to keep open communication about "one day" when he's ready to spread his wings and venture out on his own. I wouldn't use age as an end goal, especially if he's easily frustrated and gets mad. Instead I would help him shoot for practical goals, keeping any age related goals to yourself. That way you can modify them as you see fit without worrying him unnecessarily. 

 

Thank you for this. As a mom of a teen who struggles in very similar ways, I appreciate the concrete examples you gave!

 

 

To Dawn -

Your initial post reminded me so much of my own son! I have been wanting to write ever since I read it. Mainly, I just wanted to offer encouragement. I remember how exhausting every day became with our son. My husband and I rarely had any conversation that did not include our son's name. Now, at 19, our son is doing much better. This required many different approaches.

 

A quick reading of posts on this board shows that we know to approach reading difficulties from many angles (e.g., vision evaluations, phonemic awareness assessments, sensory/anxiety alleviation). Similarly, we may have far more options than we realize in the moment for our children's social and behavioral difficulties.

 

As was written for the child in the post above, so it is true for us: Like most things, the more skills we have in something, the easier it is, the more enjoyable it is. You can do this. Feel free to use anything below that might be helpful to increase your own skills during this wearying situation. All of them helped us, at one time or another:

 

-Consider avoiding a "feelings" approach to counseling or therapies, at least for a time. (For us, my son's anger and rudeness only worsened in such a setting.) Instead, try baby-step goal-setting, as albeto. described so well, with CBT approaches to improve thinking, mood, and civility.

 

-Evaluate his academics for the upcoming year:

1) Include excellent literature, such as Captains Courageous, and read without moralizing. Let the author do the instructing in good character, duty, courage, and virtue.

 

2) Teach logical fallacies. Introduce them with absurdities for the least accusing and most humorous effect. (After all, we're all guilty!) For a free glimpse into these, see YourLogicalFallacyIs. Just take them one at a time, perhaps one per week, on flash cards. We found this very effective for our whole family. For a formal program, Fallacy Detectives (from a Christian perspective) is an accessible choice. Classical Academic Press also has a new program for this.

 

-Consider a medical evaluation for a mood disorder with possible benefit of medication, if the doctor deems this necessary. Even if a child does not evidence mood disturbance in an initial evaluation as a young child, our doctor said that sometimes such difficulties can emerge at adolescence or with the "brain habituation" of negative thinking, especially for ASD children.

 

-Consider borrowing from the library I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help! which expands some of the principles described by albeto. above. Although written to address mental illness, the book might benefit anyone whose own lack of insight or self-awareness leads to rebellion, moodiness, or faulty thinking. The author, an M.D. with a brother who suffered from a severe lack of insight and even schizophrenia, learned to come alongside his brother in more effective ways for both of them. I changed my own approach after reading this, and it helped my son.

 

-Have your son complete (or dictate) a brief gratitude list at the end of each day. Require only 3 items from the day at first. Then expand to 5. It can include foods, people, activities. This is intended to shift his thinking, step by step, day by day, from self-pity and self-absorption into a more observant, appreciative thought pattern. 

 

 

Perhaps such a multi-tiered approach will help your son too.

 

Much encouragement to you, Dawn.  Your son sounds so much like mine. I hope some of this helps.

 

Cheryl

 

mom of adopted boy/girl twins

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

 

[texasmama]

My son goes on a trip the first week of Aug.  I think I may make an appt. to see the counselor myself then and discuss a bit.

 

Dawn

This is a fabulous plan.  Sometimes counseling provides a release valve for teens (Aspie or not) and helps take some of the pressure off of the parent-child relationship.  I have seen quite a few Aspie teens/kids in my time of doing therapy, always brought in by a parent who was struggling to parent or with how to respond to behaviors.  Having a therapist to mediate these things can take a load off the parent and provide support.  That is a valid reason to seek therapy.  The fact that your son likes the therapist and mostly does not protest is HUGE.

 

IME, social skills groups run by experienced therapists for kids/teens on the spectrum can have great benefits if you can find one.

[texasmama]

Thanks all.  I just feel so defeated with this child.  And just when things seem to be going better, bam, it crashes again.

(((hugs)))

 

My best friend of 25 years has an Aspie, OCD, ADHD son, and parenting him is exhausting.  I have had a front row seat for 15 years now, and she feels much the same as you do.

[albeto.]

-Consider avoiding a "feelings" approach to counseling or therapies, at least for a time. (For us, my son's anger and rudeness only worsened in such a setting.) Instead, try baby-step goal-setting, as albeto. described so well, with CBT approaches to improve thinking, mood, and civility.

 

I enjoyed reading each one of your ideas. I also liked hearing concrete examples when I was struggling. I wish I could "like" your post again, for the record.

 

This one particular point bears repeating (well, they all do, but I'll ramble on about this for a moment). If the counselor is appealing to the teen's emotions, I would fully understand (and support) his attitude about not wanting to go. For this reason, Dawn, I think it's important for you to know what the therapy is like. By that I mean you should know the style of the therapy, what the therapist's goals are and how s/he is working towards them. (By all means, let him have his privacy. Resist the temptation to ask for details.) If they are emotional goals, such as "X should learn empathy when conversing with friends," I would consider that a red flag and appeal for a different approach. It may sound counter productive to say that dealing with emotions won't help him identify and control his emotions, but it really has been shown to be ineffective with people on the autistic spectrum. There are ways to empower him with regard to his emotions and inability to navigate the social world to his liking, but appealing to emotions would not be it. Appealing to concrete goals is a more successful way. 

 

We have the same poster in the bathroom with logical fallacies. It's very simple. The kids can't not see it. It's the old Cheaper By The Dozen trick, I guess (dh never read it, but figured taking advantage of a captive audience is an efficient way to get some information across). 

 

Meds can make or break therapy. Having a brain not constantly reacting to events with a fear-fight/flight response will allow information to be used in a practical sense. Reducing stress hormones means the brain can process the kinds of information we want our kids to identify and process, information that is often relegated as superfluous when responding in a fight or flight manner. It's no one's fault, that's just how some brains are wired. Meds can help a number of people with this. It may take time to find the right meds, so be patient and make changes slowly so you can be sure of the effects. 

[Tokyomarie]

I think the ROPES book will help you share with him just where he could use some help. His frustrations, his irritation and anger directed at you, these are things he can learn to identify as problems with ineffective solutions. For example, he wants to play the piano. The problem is, he can't get what he wants. The solution is to learn. Now the problem is that he can't learn fast enough to appease his desire. The ROPES book has organizational tools to help him identify his frustrations, brainstorm various solutions, anticipate possible outcomes for these solutions, and learn to identify the reality of these events.

 

(parts of post snipped)

 

As far as turning 18 and being a legal adult, I would encourage you to keep open communication about "one day" when he's ready to spread his wings and venture out on his own. I wouldn't use age as an end goal, especially if he's easily frustrated and gets mad. Instead I would help him shoot for practical goals, keeping any age related goals to yourself. That way you can modify them as you see fit without worrying him unnecessarily. 

 

Abeto, thank you for your detailed recommendation of the ROPES book. I will check it out because it may be helpful for my work with students.

 

I want to comment further on the age 18/legal adult issue, because I'm the one who brought it up earlier. I, personally, don't use age as an end goal, certainly not with the thought that I would *push* an 18yo out of the nest when he is not ready. Nor would I *tell* the teen that he has to be ready to assume adult responsibility at age 18. We know that these young people tend to be several years delayed in their acquisition of executive skills needed to function independently. It is usually best if they can be in an environment where competent adults are scaffolding their experiences in a way that helps them to continue to build skills that will lead towards further independence.

 

OTOH, what I was thinking about regarding the age 18 issue is that our legal system gives young people the right to make their own decisions about how they'll live life and EXPECTS those young people to be ready to navigate college life or work on their own. Parents don't have any legal leverage with a teen who has turned 18yo unless arrangements for guardianship have been formalized. This is obviously a drastic step, but one that needs to be taken in situations where a young person is likely to need long term assistance to manage daily life. With teens who are likely to eventually live on their own, navigating those years from 18-25 or so can be tricky. The young adult needs help, but he has to be willing to allow the parent or another adult to give that assistance. Figuring out now what the issues will be legally and how to get to the point in your relationship that your son trusts you enough to accept your advice and assistance will be an important part of this process, Dawn.  

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[DawnM]

Yes, but so far there hasn't been any one person specifically.  There are people who influence him positively, but none that I would ask to mentor him at this time.

 

 

Dawn, have you considered the Mentor angle? Temple Grandin is very big on mentors. She was helped through a science teacher in school and he had a great impact on her life from that point on. She talks about mentors in her book "The Way I See It'. You should be able to find it at the library. She shares how to go about finding a mentor. I had mentors in my life that also helped me in many ways through my life and still remember them fondly to this day. If your son admires someone he may be more inclined to listen to them also. Just another angle to think about anyway.

 

[DawnM]

The basis of his counseling/therapy is:

 

To understand himself better

To understand how he sees the world

To understand that he is very black and white and that there is a big grey world out there

To understand how he can navigate that world

 

We have met with the counselor ourselves twice.  I have confidence in him.  He specializes in teen Asperger kids, particularly boys.  He has come highly recommended.

 

The first time we met with him (DH and I) was to establish what our goals were.  Basically, we wanted him to meet with our son and help him figure out how to be able to live as an adult.  We don't know if college is in his future or not, but a traditional 4 year college is probably not going to be for him.  

 

The second time we met, he gave me some pointers on how to deal with my son.  How to show more interest in what he is interested in and how to be a little firmer without getting angry (hard for me as this kid pushes my buttons.)

 

This is just a short list and a summary, but just to let everyone know that I do want this therapy/counseling.  So, the post wasn't really to have people question what we are doing and why we are doing it, it was more to figure out how to get my son to keep going and wanting to go.

 

Dawn

[albeto.]

The second time we met, he gave me some pointers on how to deal with my son.  How to show more interest in what he is interested in and how to be a little firmer without getting angry (hard for me as this kid pushes my buttons.)

If he gave you some ideas you could apply successfully, then he's already worth his weight in gold. Teaching the parent how to avoid stress is too often overlooked with regards to learning how to help our kids.

 

This is just a short list and a summary, but just to let everyone know that I do want this therapy/counseling.  So, the post wasn't really to have people question what we are doing and why we are doing it, it was more to figure out how to get my son to keep going and wanting to go.

 

Dawn

Fair enough. Hopefully you can find some ideas in here to incorporate in your discussions the next time he expresses hesitation.

Hang in there, Dawn. These years are tough, but try and resist the temptation of thinking about the adult man in terms of the teen man you have at home. There's a lot of years of growth and maturity ahead of him. I think these years are a lot like the first years - each year packs a lot of info into the brain, and the individual grows accordingly.

[DawnM]

Today I sat down with the older two kids.  Both will be High School next year.  I wanted to talk to them about goals for this year and high school in general.

 

My Aspie son made several references to, "You know, I need to talk to (therapist's name) about that."

 

He is actually being somewhat pleasant so far.......

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[texasmama]

Today I sat down with the older two kids.  Both will be High School next year.  I wanted to talk to them about goals for this year and high school in general.

 

My Aspie son made several references to, "You know, I need to talk to (therapist's name) about that."

 

He is actually being somewhat pleasant so far.......

Please know that the bolded is absolutely amazing and an incredible endorsement from your son.  Hold onto that when he complains and says you are spending too much money on useless therapy.  It is also giving your ds the gift of normalizing counseling, and the fact that he is having a pleasant experience now will make him more likely to seek help in the future if/when he needs it.

[DawnM]

He actually hugged me tonight, on his own, without me hugging him first.  He has never, ever done this since he was much younger.

 

Very surprised.

[kbutton]

I know this is small comfort, but things with my son always get worse just before a breakthrough or developmental change that is usually in the right direction. It doesn't matter if it's small (learning a new skill in VT, so we get worse before better in one short week) or something huge. This is the pattern with him. I forget that myself, but it's quite true.

 

:grouphug:

[DawnM]

thank you.  

 

What Dh and I were discussing just this morning is the fact that his emotions have become far more extreme.  This am he had a MAJOR meltdown.  He is leaving for camp.  Thankfully DH is going with him.

 

So, meltdowns are more intense and happy times have become more intense.  

 

It is a roller coaster for all of us and it is draining.

 

I know this is small comfort, but things with my son always get worse just before a breakthrough or developmental change that is usually in the right direction. It doesn't matter if it's small (learning a new skill in VT, so we get worse before better in one short week) or something huge. This is the pattern with him. I forget that myself, but it's quite true.

 

:grouphug:

 

[Guest]

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[DawnM]

It could be.

 

He told DH he hadn't slept for 2 nights.  When asked why or what the issue was, he said his shorts were bothering him and uncomfortable.  Why the child didn't think to CHANGE HIS PANTS I have no idea.  And, I have no idea if that really was the issue or just one of the symptoms.  He struggles in the area of sleeping.  He didn't sleep through the night until he was 4 and even then would have periods of time where he would get up in the middle of the night.  He wet his bed until about age 10.  

 

I think these camps and programs have overwhelmed him.  He has really had too much stimulation this summer......retreat, trip for a week, 3 different weeks of camp/adventure, etc....

 

We are just trying to figure it all out.  

 

I am meeting with the therapist myself/alone this week and have a list of things to discuss/bring up during the hour, so I am hoping that will enlighten me a bit.

 

Dawn

 

 

We go through some emotional times mostly with my youngest boy. He has very strong emotional reactions mostly because of sensory issues. His are more pronounced than his brother's. Is it possible that some of these outbursts have to do with sensory issues? I have sensory issues also so I can get where that is coming from. Many of mine lead to anxiety and I can see the anxiety in my son also. Most people react to/ cope with anxiety differently.
 

 

[Guest]

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[kbutton]

It could be.

 

He told DH he hadn't slept for 2 nights.  When asked why or what the issue was, he said his shorts were bothering him and uncomfortable.  Why the child didn't think to CHANGE HIS PANTS I have no idea.  And, I have no idea if that really was the issue or just one of the symptoms.  He struggles in the area of sleeping.  He didn't sleep through the night until he was 4 and even then would have periods of time where he would get up in the middle of the night.  He wet his bed until about age 10.  

 

I think these camps and programs have overwhelmed him.  He has really had too much stimulation this summer......retreat, trip for a week, 3 different weeks of camp/adventure, etc....

 

We are just trying to figure it all out.  

 

I am meeting with the therapist myself/alone this week and have a list of things to discuss/bring up during the hour, so I am hoping that will enlighten me a bit.

 

Dawn

 

I would mention this to the therapist. Problem solving skills are in short supply at our house if they involve self-awareness vs. objects. And it's not only the Aspie in the family who struggles with this. My husband rarely gets headaches--maybe a couple every five years. So, if he has a headache, it will take him DAYS to realize it because he doesn't think of himself as someone who gets headaches. My son's issues go beyond that, but just not thinking of the possibility is one thing, black and white thinking is another. Then there is the self-awareness, which is always worse when he's tired or stressed. I suspect there are executive functioning things in this area that overlap as well.

 

Maybe you can make a sleep time checklist. He can treat himself as the patient and see if he's following the treatment plan. He does xyz to get ready to sleep and wind himself down. If he can't sleep, he checks xyz, does xyz, etc., like a flowchart. Kind of like when a baby is screaming, we run down the list...is he hungry, tired, wet, messy, hot, cold, does he have a hair around his toe, etc. If he's not sleeping well, maybe he can realize he needs certain supports to make him more successful during the day, and those supports can go away when he's on his game. (I keep hoping my son will come to this realization too, but he's ten, so it's a long shot right now).

 

[albeto.]

It could be.

 

He told DH he hadn't slept for 2 nights.  When asked why or what the issue was, he said his shorts were bothering him and uncomfortable.  Why the child didn't think to CHANGE HIS PANTS I have no idea.  And, I have no idea if that really was the issue or just one of the symptoms.  He struggles in the area of sleeping.  He didn't sleep through the night until he was 4 and even then would have periods of time where he would get up in the middle of the night.  He wet his bed until about age 10.  

 

If you have the ROPES book, this is the exact thing you'd use it for. Don't wait for him to initiate. Find an emotionally neutral time to work out something like this. Give him the skills to recognize the dots he needs to be connecting.

 

Sleep and autism have a mysterious correlation. I don't know if anyone really understands why, but there can be profound sleep issues with people with autism. I would look into things like melatonin or perhaps some kind of night time ritual. My concern would be to let it go in hopes each night he'll finally exhaust himself. My concern would be setting him up to discover alcohol works really well to this end. 

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[DawnM]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

He is really not receptive to much I have to say on any of this, even when he is in a good mood.  

 

I met with the therapist last week and he has some good ideas.  I asked HIM to talk to my son about them as he will listen to the therapist more than he will listen to me.  He said he would be happy to.

 

Son's newest thing is that his mattress is uncomfortable.

 

I have no issue with getting him a new mattress.  My issue is that I am not sure any mattress will actually be what he wants and we will just keep spinning our wheels there.

 

Dawn

[8filltheheart]

Dawn,

 

I started reading the replies, but there are just too many of them for me to go through. I just wanted to share that typical discussion type therapy was useless for our ds. It did not connect with him, nor did it help him with his anger management or impulsive reactions at all. Nor did it help him make any adjustments to adulthood responsibilities. So I completely feel your pain.

 

Our ds, approaching 23, still struggles with all of the same issues---to a lesser extent in some areas but escalating in others (right now it is dating and our life has hit nightmare levels of emotion with him again bc of the mixture of anxiety and lack of understanding of appropriate relationship building.)

 

Group training was far more beneficial for him than any other approach we tried. Group life skills, group social skills, etc gave him real interaction vs simply talking to a counselor who gave him approaches he should try to employ......but he has to want to employ them. When our ds is fixated on what he wants, employing skills suggested during "talk therapy" are useless. He wants what he wants and there is absolutely no rationalizing with him until he calms down and can let go of his fixation.

 

Group therapy, otoh, has focused on different skills and those tend to become more engrained in his behaviors and have helped him make progress.

 

To sum it up simply, as one of just dozens of therapists our ds has seen over the yrs said, "xxx, I can't help you change your behaviors unless you want to change them." Our ds is completely dependent. He works full time for Goodwill and they love him. He was recently promoted. But, outside of the constant positive praise and positive reinforcement environment of Goodwill (which is a HUGE blessing in his life), his level of functioning is more on a pre-teen/young teen level of emotional response. I am starting to see glimpses of his maybe being independent one day, but it is more like a decade behind avg development.

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[DawnM]

And each day is so different.

 

Today he was great.  We got along.  I even played one of his (IMO) mind numbing games with him.

 

He is sleeping better and says the mattress is now fine.  :confused1:

 

I guess I need to focus on the good days, right?

 

As for his therapist.  We really like him.  He and my son mesh really well.  In fact, just today he said again, "Oh, I should tell (name) about that."  He actually said it with enthusiasm.

 

I so wish I could afford the $20K school here for Asperger kids.  There are actually two of them......both run about $20K.

 

Dawn

[EowynR]

Last night, I talked with a group of moms whose boys have sensory disorders and meltdowns. My teen daughter has Asperger's with the concomitant sleeping disorder.

 

Two moms are having better behavior and sleep with a little magnesium supplement.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Magnesium-Calm---/dp/B000GJOZWE/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1408552738&sr=1-2&keywords=natural+vitality+calm

 

I am going to try this with my daughter. She really wants to sleep. Another important thing that we usually forget to do is to use a good probiotic - the type that is stored in the fridge. There are a lot of new studies out about the relationship between gut bacteria and the brain.