It happened to my kids: people trying to convert them. And I'm MAD!!!

[Alenee]

Of late, my 15 yo has been questioning our teachings to her which we have gladly accepted.  She knows she's in a home where she can ask the hard questions and feel free to make her own decisions.  She recently wrote the most amazing mini-essay on modesty which you all would be so proud of!  She is also questioning God.  To some parents, this would induce fear but I'm so over that.  She has to decide for herself! 

 

So the story:  last night both my 12yo and 15yo went to an amusement park with several uber conservative families and were planning to spend the night.  At around 9pm, 12 yo called me to come get her.  On the ride home, she shared all the cr@p she was hearing all day.  Apparently, the father and even some of the other teenagers were spewing bible verses at my kids ALL.DAY.LONG.  DD12 said that the parents had issued a Christian music challenge.  Only listen to Christian music/radio for 30 days.  And dd12's response blew me away!  She said to me, "Why?  We listened (yes, past tense) to Christian radio for 10 years and it never changed me!  How is that supposed to change a person?!  It JUST doesn't!"  We talked about our faith as Orthodox Christians and what growth for us might look like and how to go about it and she finally relaxed but up to that point, she was angry and crying.  She felt violated by the attempt at converting her back to protestantism. 

 

I didn't pick up dd15 but now I know where some of her questions are coming from and plan to have an open discussion.  Dh doesn't want her around those friends for a while.  I agree.  DON'T MESS WITH MY KIDS!  Your faith is your own!  You have no right to push your religion on CHILDREN, especially MY children!

 

Thanks for the vent!

[Dana]

:grouphug:

[umsami]

Ugh. That would make me very angry.

 

But, I have to say, it sounds like you have some awesome kids.  Your DD's response to the Christian music challenge was great.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you.  I agree it was entirely inappropriate.  

[Truscifi]

:grouphug:

 

I'm sorry this happened. It is sounds like you are helping them deal with it well though.

[Spryte]

:grouphug: Your kids handled it well.  Good job raising kiddos who think for themselves!  And who talk to you.

[Greta]

I'm so sorry, Alenee. I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people who are already Christian! But it sounds like your daughters are handling it well, and it will probably prove to be a strengthening and clarifying experience for them. :grouphug:

[Guest]

I'm sorry. That really stinks. This is why I have never had my kids in VBS (although there may be many wonderful VBSes out there), because i remember vbs from my childhood was all about, "this may be the one chance these poor little sinful children will ever get to hear the gospel."

[bolt.]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I'm protestant evangelical, and I agree with you and your daughter. Spewing Bible verses and listening to Christian music doesn't change people. I love to talk about the  Bible and God, but with people who also want to talk.

 

I'll pass on an incident that happened recently. I went to Israel in June with group of other protestant evangelicals. Our tour guide was Jewish. A few days into our trip she asked our leader why our group was not like the other Christian groups she had led. Many of the other groups would try to convert her, but our group did not. Our leader explained that the decision to convert had to be hers with no coercion. Our job was to respect her and love her. I wanted to let  you know not all protestants actively try to convert others every minute of the day.

 

Best wishes.

[umsami]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

Honestly, I don't think it is appropriate to talk about with other people's children.  If they're adults, that's fine.  I think a lot of people explore faith and spirituality in college.  I think it's an appropriate place.  

 

I doubt you'd want me to try and convert your kids to Islam, even if they were teenagers and I thought it was a "good fit." (Although, I really have no desire to convert anybody.)

 

If they choose to pick up a Qur'an when they're in college or meet kids part of the Muslim Students' Association and want to learn more, fine.  But I'm not going to try and convert anybody's children.  Not my place, and rather disrespectful of the parents too.  

 

ETA: I'm fine with answering their questions, though.  So…"Are you hot in that?"  "Are you a nun?"  "Why don't Muslims eat during Ramadan?" Those things, I'll answer… and if I know the family's belief system, I'll try and link the answers back to that.  So, when we fast during Ramadan, it's kind of like when you give up stuff during Lent.  

[Truscifi]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

Only answering for myself here, but I would be fine with you chatting about faith with my kids if they ask you about it. But in my opinion if they don't ask and are not interested, it is not appropriate for you to aggressively "share" as Alenee's kids described with people of any age. It is especially loathsome if you (general you, not meaning you specifically) target kids who can't get away.

[Rosie_0801]

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

I wasn't allowed to talk to my younger brother about religion while either of us were living at home. I think he moved out when he was 17.

[Alenee]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

If it were just a chat with my teen, a CHAT, I'd have been okay.  But the message I was getting was that it was a conversation with a purpose.  Dh said he was cornered by the dad last week asking him about our religious practice and it was clear, "we're not Christian enough."

 

eta: yes, as someone said, my kids couldn't get away without asking to call home to do so.  DD12 felt she needed to come home but when making the call, she also felt like it made her stick out and as a major introvert, this was extremely bothersome for her.  And as someone else said, it was totally disrespecting us as parents.  The whole thing makes me so angry.  And sad. 

[DawnM]

I am very sorry.  I consider Orthodox Christianity to be Christian.  I have been appalled at some people in MY church recently who have said otherwise.  It is not my church's stance, but those of some individuals.  

 

In fact, my cousin was raised Evangelical and after seeking the Biblical text more and more, he was convinced Orthodoxy was the way to go.  He is now an Orthodox priest and has been for quite a while.

[DawnM]

First of all, if the person asks, I think it is appropriate to answer.  The line is crossed when the telling/answering becomes argumentative or continues on and on to prove your point.

 

I grew up in a missionary household.  I am very well aware of witnessing to others.  I don't even have a problem with it.  However, there is discussion and then there is harassment/argumentative.  I think often the lines become blurred to those who like to evangelize.

 

Dawn

 

 

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Honestly, I don't think it is appropriate to talk about with other people's children.  If they're adults, that's fine.  I think a lot of people explore faith and spirituality in college.  I think it's an appropriate place.  

 

I doubt you'd want me to try and convert your kids to Islam, even if they were teenagers and I thought it was a "good fit." (Although, I really have no desire to convert anybody.)

 

If they choose to pick up a Qur'an when they're in college or meet kids part of the Muslim Students' Association and want to learn more, fine.  But I'm not going to try and convert anybody's children.  Not my place, and rather disrespectful of the parents too.  

Agreed.  If my kids ask a question then feel free to answer (up to a point - I would hope there would be age appropriate discretion for certain types of topics :) ).  But even if we are of the same general faith I would not appreciate someone bombarding my children with their version of our faith, especially if they are not with me and have no easy way to extract themselves from an uncomfortable situation.  

 

And I would NEVER do that to someone else's child.  If they ask a question I will try to answer, but that answer will be short and succinct and I will redirect them to their parent for additional information.

[MomatHWTK]

The 30 day challenge that I'm aware of is actually not about conversion. It is put on by a Christian radio station and directed at Christian listeners.  The idea is to listen only to Christian music as opposed to secular (pop) music on the radio for a month to see how it impacts your daily life.  (i.e. garbage in, garbage out)  I've never heard it mentioned in reference to converting anyone, only as spiritually strengthening for believers.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't think it is appropriate to ever talk to children about stuff like that in that way.  It's what I'd call a cheap shot.  They are not in the same position as the adult to respectfully decline wanting to discuss it or hear it. 

Yes to the bolded especially.

[wintermom]

I understand the sensitivity of the topic, and I completely understand why your dd felt uncomfortable. I just wonder whether the group was quoting bible verses for each other and their own pleasure and your dd just happened to be there listening, or was she the only audience for these bursts of quotations.

 

Imagine if the group had a challenge to listen to only Beach Boys songs and were constantly quoting Beach Boys songs and singing little bits of the songs all day. That would also get really annoying if I happened to be along for the day and hadn't realized what the group was going to do. I agree with your dd in that music isn't going to be enough to convert anyone, though it can keep certain thoughts at the forefront of our minds. I wouldn't want surfing and racing cars to be at the forefront of my mind constantly, so please don't push Beach Boys on me! :laugh:

[OneStepAtATime]

The 30 day challenge that I'm aware of is actually not about conversion. It is put on by a Christian radio station and directed at Christian listeners.  The idea is to listen only to Christian music as opposed to secular (pop) music on the radio for a month to see how it impacts your daily life.  (i.e. garbage in, garbage out)  I've never heard it mentioned in reference to converting anyone, only as spiritually strengthening for believers.

 

Was the scripture specifically targeted toward changing your children's belief system or just general scriptural references throughout the day?  Did your DD feel there was a specific goal of changing her belief system?   

If they wanted to say that THEY were doing the 30 day challenge and discussed how it was working for them, that would be fine with me.  If they were insisting my own kids do it, especially in a pushy, pressuring manner where my kids were led to feel guilty for not immediately agreeing, that would NOT be o.k.  As Sparkly said, they are not in a position when at someone else's house without me to respectfully decline or take time to process what is being pushed upon them.

[KRG]

 At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

I don't think it ever becomes appropriate to discuss with another child a spiritual decision in a social setting.  If you are the child's sunday school teacher or the parent has asked you to(I find that hard to imagine though) then ok because I would assume the parents are on the same page. I'm a Christian and I would be more than aggravated if someone wanted to discuss spiritual decisions with my children in a social context.

[73349]

I'd cut off contact with a family that was that rude. :(

[PrincessMommy]

Wow that would make me angry too.  My kids have been exposed a bit to it too since converting, but not that bad.  I think I would have to have a talk with the parents...esp. if your dh had a similar experience.

[City Mouse]

It sounds like those "friends" are not really friends. I think it is time to look for some real friends.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

That happened to me when I was a year or two younger than your dd. I was a devout Christian from a family with a very vibrant and active religious heritage and community. I wasn't one of the "unchurched." But my friend's family who were of a different denomination tried to convert me. It was to the point of bullying, with the Christian pop music blaring and them telling me I needed to like it (my christian tradition was a Capella music only). I tried to politely answer, speak up for myself, change the subject, but it still ended with the Dad screaming at me and the Mom screaming at him. If my friend's boyfriend (who was sane) hadn't been there I don't know what would have happened but he got things calmed down. My friend was mortified. The ambush was not her idea.

 

I was a captive audience, away from home with them, or of course I would have just left. But here are the lifelong lessons I took from that experience (I'm telling you this because your dd might have similar thoughts after her experience):

 

1. Nobody had to forbid me from going to their house again, although I remained friends at school. I never saw her parents again. It was good that my parents let me mentally sort my good friend from her crazy parents instead of forbidding me from being with her.

2. I read up on manners (religion sharing etiquette) and religious freedom (never covered in school) and decided that I would be a person who respected others' different beliefs and choices. In my home church we talked about religious freedom but it was always about OUR freedom. I also became committed to freedom and respect for others' faiths or lack thereof.

 

I'm not saying this was a good experience but I did make the most of it. I do keep this from happening to my dc. They don't do trips or overnights or church visits with uber conservative families and that includes relatives who seem to be waiting for a chance to work them over in private. We're seen as incredibly, dangerously liberal because of my aforementioned tolerance for others of different beliefs. It's not fair, because personally our family is more conservative in faith and practice than most of our critics. Evidently that's not good enough -- you also have to hate and judge the people they hate and judge. No thanks.

[OneStepAtATime]

When I was a little girl we had neighbors that attended a different church than us but it was the same faith.  They had a child my age.  My mom and her mom talked about my attending service once in a while with her daughter, but I remember they were VERY careful to only talk to each other when we were around, and to keep the conversation low.  Once they left, Mom asked me directly if I would be interested, but in private, where I could think about it, ask questions and react in the safety of my own home.  I said yes, and I did go one time.  I didn't like it (I think I was just nervous at being in a new place), but the woman NEVER asked me directly if I liked their church and wanted to attend again.  She asked my mother, with no pressure directed at me or Mom, just asking.  Mom asked me if I wanted to go back, but she asked me in private.  When I said no I felt very comfortable doing so.  The family did not pressure me in any way and we continued to be friends.  Now that I am an adult I appreciate even more how our neighbor handled the situation and the respect she showed my family.

[Halftime Hope]

Alenee, I don't know if this would be helpful or not, but I wonder if setting up a time for you and dh--together--to talk to the parents in question would be instructive for them, helping them see how their behavior affected you all, so they could see their behavior from the other side.  I wonder if they knew, if it would produce a more gracious approach in them in future encounters. ?? 

 

I know that would take extraordinary grace and generosity on your part to even engage with them, and truly, it might not even be worth it--who knows.

 

I just know that I've been so grateful to have my thinking challenged by the perspectives of others on this board.  I've somehow always managed to end up feeling led to take the lesser traveled road on numerous topics (midwifery, healthcare, homeschooling, etc.) and it has helped me to hear other viewpoints on this board, and maybe I can live out my choices with more balance or more empathy when I have in mind others' viewpoints that I've heard on this board.

 

Just a thought.  Forgive me if it is not helpful.

[Lady Florida.]

OP, I'm sorry that happened to your kids.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think it is appropriate to talk about with other people's children.  If they're adults, that's fine.  I think a lot of people explore faith and spirituality in college.  I think it's an appropriate place.  

 

I doubt you'd want me to try and convert your kids to Islam, even if they were teenagers and I thought it was a "good fit." (Although, I really have no desire to convert anybody.)

 

If they choose to pick up a Qur'an when they're in college or meet kids part of the Muslim Students' Association and want to learn more, fine.  But I'm not going to try and convert anybody's children.  Not my place, and rather disrespectful of the parents too.

 

I agree. By the same token, I'd never try to convince someone else's child to not believe in a god even if I think atheism would be a good fit for that child. It's simply not right. 

 

If you want to know if it's okay to discuss religious beliefs (or lack thereof) with a child, think about a belief that's in direct opposition to yours and put your children in that position. Would you want someone trying to convert or deconvert your child? If the answer is no, then the situation is not appropriate for you to try and convert someone else's child.

 

 

ETA: I'm fine with answering their questions, though.  So…"Are you hot in that?"  "Are you a nun?"  "Why don't Muslims eat during Ramadan?" Those things, I'll answer… and if I know the family's belief system, I'll try and link the answers back to that.  So, when we fast during Ramadan, it's kind of like when you give up stuff during Lent.

 

I even have trouble with that. If a child asks me why I don't believe in (their) god it's difficult to answer without them at least perceiving offense to their beliefs. It's different when talking to an adult. With a child though, I usually just say something like, "Different people believe different things. Religious beliefs aren't right for our family." If they persist I tell them we don't talk about religion with our friends who believe differently.

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm sorry. That really stinks. This is why I have never had my kids in VBS (although there may be many wonderful VBSes out there), because i remember vbs from my childhood was all about, "this may be the one chance these poor little sinful children will ever get to hear the gospel."

That is what I remember, too. It is also why I do not allow "altar calls" during the elementary chapel services at my school. I will not have children being emotionally manipulated into "believing" like I was as a child.

 

Honestly, thinking back on all I saw and heard at church when I was a child, it's a miracle I am still a Christian.

 

OP, I am sorry your kids went through this. I was once pulled over for speeding and was forced to sit in the back of the squad car while the officer preached at me for 45 minutes. It was horrifying. I feel for you.

[Alexigail]

Hugs, Alenee.  I remember encountering Evangelical Christianity for the first time.  From and Orthodox perspective, it is hard to understand and even harder to navigate.  I think you daughter behaved beautifully. I also think that you have a great attitude towards your questioning teen.  Knowing she is loved and trusted to form her own opinions will help her in her struggle.  

[SKL]

I'm sorry your daughter's outing was spoiled.  But I'm glad that she has had enough past experience with different views that she knew how to deal with this issue and grew stronger in her ability to think and act for herself.

[Heather in Neverland]

The 30 day challenge that I'm aware of is actually not about conversion. It is put on by a Christian radio station and directed at Christian listeners. The idea is to listen only to Christian music as opposed to secular (pop) music on the radio for a month to see how it impacts your daily life. (i.e. garbage in, garbage out) I've never heard it mentioned in reference to converting anyone, only as spiritually strengthening for believers.

The problem I have with this "challenge" is that most of the music I hear on Christian music stations is garbage itself. It's mostly self-indulgent, spiritual navel-gazing or worse... the "Jesus is my boyfriend" type songs that make me nauseous. Very little of it is actually focused on worshipping God.

[SeaConquest]

I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people who are already Christian! 

 

I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people. Period.

 

I understand that I am a heathen Jew, and that you (the general you) are only trying to save my soul from hellfire damnation, blah, blah, blah, but I think that proselytizing about religion is just as rude as proselytizing about how to parent, how to eat, how to [insert other unsolicited advice about how to live one's life here]. 

[swellmomma]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

My rule of thumb towards other people's children and what I hope others adhere to with my own, is being open to answering questions they ask about my beliefs but not foisting them upon them.  In the car we may have worship music on but that is not because we hope to convert anyone but because we enjoy singing along as we drive. We never lob bible verses at other people, especially children.  However, I have had friends of the kids going through a tough time and I ask them if it is okay if I pray with them or share how we deal with difficult times with prayer.  I had had some of their friends as questions related to our faith and I share freely answering them, but leave it at the questions asked.  

 

 

 

ETA: on the music front, I would never issue a challenge to anyone's child about music, nor is Christian/worship music all we listen to.  If the kids friends were in the car with us this week they would be subjected to the soundtrack from Wicked lol We have been listening to it over and over since Saturday when I saw the show. If I bring my ipod into the car well then there is a wide mix on there.  Nothing like going from "Our God", to "My songs know what you did in the dark" to "repose in blue" (that one is a beautiful instrumental piece that makes me wish I was a ballerina and could dance to it all day) to any number of other songs from other genre's.  If it is a song I like I try to get it on there, and I listen to it all set on random :)

[Farrar]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

I'm not an evangelical Christian by any means.  Dh is an atheist.  Just to clarify where I'm coming from.

 

I feel like it's never okay to bring up faith with other people's children, especially without them there.  I mean, this is not to say I want anyone to hide their faith from my kids.  If it comes up naturally, it comes up, but faith coming up is not having a chat about it, it's saying things like, well, we were busy that day because we were at church or our tradition is different for that holiday because we believe differently.

 

I think when other people's kids, especially teens, ask questions and bring up the subject themselves, that it is okay, in fact, desirable, to say, this is what I believe.  I do this, I think this way, I read these books.  I, I, I.  To be an example of your faith and no more.  And, if the parents aren't there, to just say to them later, your dc asked me about our church/religion/faith and I just explained some of where I'm coming from.  I think the line is crossed when you start to turn the questions around on the child, or start to challenge them or when you're the one bringing it up, especially repeatedly.  I think the line is especially crossed when people say anything along the lines of, people who don't think the way we do are going to hell/can't be saved/etc.

 

Just my take.

[Joanne]

If it were just a chat with my teen, a CHAT, I'd have been okay.  But the message I was getting was that it was a conversation with a purpose.  Dh said he was cornered by the dad last week asking him about our religious practice and it was clear, "we're not Christian enough."

 

 

 

This message is insidious and pervasive. My spiritual heritage is in a Christian denomination known to be "liberal." Once I was introduced to literalist/fundementalist/conservative Christianity, I was often exposed to passive/aggressive forms of I wasn't the "right kind" of Christian.

When I moved (back) to Texas, and attended a PCUSA church, members practically fell over themselves to get to my family to tell us they were a "confessing PCUSA church" - as if it were a determining factor in my choice of church home (it was, but not in the way they assumed!)

 

I remember being on the mailing list of a very popular curriculum supplier. I loved their curriculum - used it for two years. I got a calendar from them with beautiful pictures of a wide variety of persons in various countries and cultures. Complete with the suggestion I "pray for their salvation and they come to Jesus."

More recently, a conservative Christian speculated that I lost my faith (while earning a Masters in a Seminary) because that institution was the wrong kind of Christian semiary (too ecumenical, too liberal).

 

It's ironic that Christians don't need Satan to woo people away.

[Spryte]

 

I even have trouble with that. If a child asks me why I don't believe in (their) god it's difficult to answer without them at least perceiving offense to their beliefs. It's different when talking to an adult. With a child though, I usually just say something like, "Different people believe different things. Religious beliefs aren't right for our family." If they persist I tell them we don't talk about religion with our friends who believe differently.

 

I do the same thing.  I want to be respectful of other families, and I don't want to undermine other parents.  

 

A purely intellectual conversation with an adult is different, or a simple question from a child, but I don't want to offend or create a rift between our families, so I simply stay away from the topic with kids, if possible.  My go to answer is the same: "Different people/families believe different things."  

 

And then we have cookies and play.   :)

[Joanne]

The problem I have with this "challenge" is that most of the music I hear on Christian music stations is garbage itself. It's mostly self-indulgent, spiritual navel-gazing or worse... the "Jesus is my boyfriend" type songs that make me nauseous. Very little of it is actually focused on worshipping God.

 

I'm not a fan, either.

 

But even this (and I KNOW you don't mean it that way) is on the "better Christian than you" continuum. There are millions of Christians who enjoy that music, worship with that music, feel closer to God through that music, and are inspired to be better people. Just like the thousands who have been helped and ministered to at Lakewood. ;) Or AA. Or A Course in Miracles. Or Oprah.

 

It seems to me that spiritual people should celebrate spirituality.

[MFG]

The 30 day challenge that I'm aware of is actually not about conversion. It is put on by a Christian radio station and directed at Christian listeners.  The idea is to listen only to Christian music as opposed to secular (pop) music on the radio for a month to see how it impacts your daily life.  (i.e. garbage in, garbage out)  I've never heard it mentioned in reference to converting anyone, only as spiritually strengthening for believers.

  

The problem I have with this "challenge" is that most of the music I hear on Christian music stations is garbage itself. It's mostly self-indulgent, spiritual navel-gazing or worse... the "Jesus is my boyfriend" type songs that make me nauseous. Very little of it is actually focused on worshipping God.

My cynical thought is that this is just a ham-handed attempt by a radio station to guilt people into listening for the purpose of upping their ratings. Do radio stations have sweeps periods like TV does?

[Firefly]

The whole idea of being evangelized to is foreign to me; that kind of thing doesn't happen often up here. But anyway, I've always thought the best way to proselytize your faith is to be a shining example of it.  Any overt attempts to convert, for me, are immediately off-putting.  

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry about what happened to your kids, Alenee -- I would be absolutely livid, too!!!

 

I'm sure the family meant well, but that doesn't excuse their behavior. I'm sure they would say they were trying to help your kids be better Christians or something along those lines, but my feeling is that it's none of their business and they have no right to try to influence someone else's children.

 

I hope seekinghim45 sees this thread and responds, because it would be interesting to hear her perspective on it. I know she believes in trying to convert the people she meets (I'm sure I'm using incorrect terminology for it, though -- sorry about that,) and I have never been able to relate to it because I find that sort of behavior to be both inappropriate and intrusive, but I have a feeling she might be able to see the situation from the perspective of the other family and I'm wondering if she would think they had crossed a line.

 

No matter what their intentions, I know my ds would have wanted to come home, too. He's not a big fan of anyone trying to shove their beliefs down his throat.

[aggieamy]

I understand the sensitivity of this situation, and I feel for you. I don't like what happened to your family here.

 

But it has made me curious. I'm exploring my own urge to be evangelical, and where it fits in a good faith that is as good for others, and society, as it is for me. At what age does it become appropriate to chat about faith (and possible spiritual decisions) in a social context with "other people's children"?

 

When is it okay ... with my kids I would say if you're comfortable discussing something as adult and personal as s*x with them then it's probably okay to try and discuss faith.  I'd say that's about 18 years old or so.  Before that it's probably best to leave it up to parents to discuss and answer questions.  

 

I don't think it is appropriate to ever talk to children about stuff like that in that way.  It's what I'd call a cheap shot.  They are not in the same position as the adult to respectfully decline wanting to discuss it or hear it. 

 

Well said.  That's a good point that they don't have the life skills to deal with an uncomfortable subject as well as an adult.  

[Liz CA]

It sounds more like harassment of a captive audience. It is not acceptable for parents or a group to harass someone who does things a little differently. This is always sad and this type of behavior gives other Christians a bad name too.

[Liz CA]

I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people. Period.

 

I understand that I am a heathen Jew, and that you (the general you) are only trying to save my soul from hellfire damnation, blah, blah, blah, but I think that proselytizing about religion is just as rude as proselytizing about how to parent, how to eat, how to [insert other unsolicited advice about how to live one's life here]. 

 

There is something in scripture (New Testament, which I understand most Jews do not view as part of the Bible) "to go out and make disciples." This is probably misunderstood often and taken to mean it's okay or even commanded to preach to everyone. However, nowhere does it say treat people with disrespect and hit them over the head with the Bible.

 

[Liz CA]

SeekingHim45:

My dad finally converted at the end of his life not because of anything said necessarily, but because the people at my church just loved on him and provided for him with no strings attached.  Despite his bipolar problems and my growing up years, I showed him grace.  I loved him and took care of him because God commanded me to do so and because I loved him.  He ended up being baptized with my boys in a swimming pool...  That after years of his cynical comments.  Love won him over.  So I try to love in deeds more than words.

 

 

 

This is what Christians are supposed to do IMHO.
 

[Catwoman]

But see... this situation is just weird in my book. They were not trying to convert the kids to Christianity but THEIR brand of Christianity. I don't know that listening to a Christian radio station makes you a Christian or even necessarily matters in your Christian walk. I love ALL types of music. ( Ok..maybe not rap. But I can appreciate the talent it takes to do it.) I think the family was out of line totally.

 

Funny story. My children were riding I cars with other youth/parents to go to Six Flags. They were listening to secular music. One of my children's friends yelled out that my children were not allowed to do that... My boys rolled their eyes. They are allowed to listen to whatever they wish. Yes, we listen to mainly Christian music because we all like it. But my boys have copies of the Journey and Foreigner songs from dad's albums. We dance around our house to Shake Your Boody. (sp???) My daughter loves that song!

 

I get the idea that you think I stop random people on the streets. Nope, but I do talk about my faith a lot. Everything I do revolves around it. So it is more like, "It is SO exciting to see how God is working. God is so good to do ...." " We are having such and such if you want to come." ( But then we go on to another topic.) My dad finally converted at the end of his life not because of anything said necessarily, but because the people at my church just loved on him and provided for him with no strings attached. Despite his bipolar problems and my growing up years, I showed him grace. I loved him and took care of him because God commanded me to do so and because I loved him. He ended up being baptized with my boys in a swimming pool... That after years of his cynical comments. Love won him over. So I try to love in deeds more than words.

 

But I think equating listening to only Christian music with a true relationship with Christ is stupid.

I wanted to like your post, but I have somehow managed to already run out of likes for the day. :glare:

 

Thanks for posting your perspective on this! I know we don't always agree on the religious stuff, but I respect your opinions and I was very interested in hearing your impressions of the situation. :)

[Greta]

I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people. Period.

 

I understand that I am a heathen Jew, and that you (the general you) are only trying to save my soul from hellfire damnation, blah, blah, blah, but I think that proselytizing about religion is just as rude as proselytizing about how to parent, how to eat, how to [insert other unsolicited advice about how to live one's life here]. 

 

I posted about this just recently in the persecution thread.  Christians do have a mandate from Christ to preach the gospel and make disciples.  But the point of the mandate is the "make disciples" part.  When the gospel is presented in an aggressive or condescending way without any consideration for the needs of the audience and whether or not they want to hear what you're saying, that is not following Christ's instructions at all.  Threatening people with hellfire and damnation is NOT spreading the good news (let us Christians not forget that that's what gospel means) of Christ's resurrection.  The best way to make disciples is to live out our faith in the manner that Christ set forth for us:  loving our neighbor as much as we love ourselves. 

 

So, while I agree with you about proselytizing, the fact remains that Christians have a basis in our belief for spreading our faith.  The reason is there - though I get that people outside of the faith don't always understand it, and I also get that Christians often go about it in the wrong way -- it is there, it's a direct instruction from Christ.  

 

My point was that even as a Christian, I do not see any reason for trying to convince other Christians to convert to my church.  Doing so would have to be based on a belief that they aren't already Christian.  And I have never read any passage of the Bible that leads me to believe that I have the ability or authority to judge whether or not other Christians are truly Christian.  Christ did not give that responsibility to me.

 

Of course I warmly and enthusiastically welcome inquirers and newcomers into my church, and will talk openly about my faith if asked.  But I'm saying that to go out and aggressively try to convince other Christians that they're doing it wrong, and I can set them straight?  Ha!  No way.  I'm still working on the massive plank in my own eye, and am in no position to remove the specks from others' eyes.  And I truly just don't understand why some Christians feel the need to do this.

 

I hope that this sounded as I intended:  clarifying and not argumentative.  

[HRAAB]

I will never understand why some Christians feel so driven to try to convert people. Period.

 

I understand that I am a heathen Jew, and that you (the general you) are only trying to save my soul from hellfire damnation, blah, blah, blah, but I think that proselytizing about religion is just as rude as proselytizing about how to parent, how to eat, how to [insert other unsolicited advice about how to live one's life here]. 

 

No, it's ruder because a person's religious and spiritual beliefs are one of the most, or the most, intimate relationship a person can have.  I'm only speaking to proselytizing here, not true open discussion.  

[ThisIsTheDay]

Why would Bible verses and Christian music be against your Orthodoxy?  It doesn't sound like evangelizing to me, rather just the way they live their lives.

 

If the behavior bothered you, I guess you didn't know them very well beforehand?

 

  She has to decide for herself! 

 

. . .

 

I didn't pick up dd15 but now I know where some of her questions are coming from and plan to have an open discussion.

 

How can she decide for herself if she's not allowed to be around others who don't share your beliefs?

 

I don't understand your indignation.

 

[DawnM]

If another Christian decided my Christianity wasn't "the right one" and "witnessed" to me, I would be offended.

 

 

 

Why would Bible verses and Christian music be against your Orthodoxy?  It doesn't sound like evangelizing to me, rather just the way they live their lives.

 

If the behavior bothered you, I guess you didn't know them very well beforehand?

 

 

How can she decide for herself if she's not allowed to be around others who don't share your beliefs?

 

I don't understand your indignation.