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S/o on menopause - keeping your marriage together as hormones mess with everything


Ginevra
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I am reading reviews and the negative ones are speaking to me......go off all caffeine and sugar and eat mostly a clean diet. That doesn't seem like new info. Am I missing something?

 

And really, go off caffeine......not really sure you want me to go off caffeine.

 

Dawn

 

No caffeine?

 

No sugar?

 

And what is this "clean diet" of which they speak? :eek:

 

Sounds like torture to me.

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:grouphug:

 

Yeah, i understand that thinking. It isn't realistic, though. Sometimes you do get blindsided, even if you did everything right. I learned this lesson when my baby girl died in labor. There was no reason that should have happened. It just did and it sucks.

 

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It has been widely reported that women initiate 2/3 of divorces in middle age, and that women report being happier post divorce than they were before, while men do not.  

 

I think women's incentives for staying married are diluted sometimes in middle age.  Often the couple has enough financial security that a woman thinks she will be OK with half the assets.  She is no longer as concerned about how divorce will effect the children,  now that they are older.  She feels more "up" for the challenge of changing her life, getting a job if necessary, and being on her own.  On the other hand, most of us, for religious or social reasons or because we want to honor our vows, do believe that staying married is better than divorcing.

 

So I wonder if as couples reach middle age, it wouldn't be wise for women to do a honest inventory of why they want to be be married to their spouses, and if they want to remain married, to figure out how to start focusing on their own happiness, health, contentment and goals.  Since the unhappiness of women appears to be more of the issue that starts divorces, I would think that often women would do well to adjust their behaviors.  Instead of trying to always keep the peace, keep their man happy, and avoid doing anything to rock the boat, I wonder if women wouldn't do better to work on figuring out how to be happy themselves, while obviously still caring about her husband's happiness.  

 

It seems to me that an annoyed woman watching her husband flip channels at night might do better to just say,  "I am not going to do this anymore."  It's not good for her or her husband or her marriage for her to sit there stewing.  Obviously there are times we make compromises.  We move where we don't want for a spouse's career, welcome inlaws we don't really care for, eat Chinese when we wanted Italian, or watch Kung Fu when we wanted to read.  And I think most men make those kinds of compromises too.   But I also think sometimes we have to choose ourselves and our spouses adjust, especially as the demands of young children aren't there. I don't have any easy solution that would work for everyone, but I just thought I would point out that a woman who constantly swallows her own thoughts, desires, goals, and preferences "for the sake of the marriage" might actually be putting that marriage at greater risk than a woman who figures out how to enjoy this period, accomplish things that matter to her, and create some energy and excitement in her own life.  

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I also feel that I am a very upfront person.  I say it like it is.  I have since we started dating, actually BEFORE we started dating.  I told DH I am a city girl and want to live in a city.  I also told him I never intended to be a SAHM.  He was fine with all of it.  Until he wasn't.    I complied.  I was actually agreeable to an extent.  But now I am hating it to the point that I can't do it anymore.  I feel I was very upfront about it prior to marriage.  MY rules haven't changed.  His seem to have.

 

 

I probably said all that stuff to DH, too, but I'm the one who changed.

 

I was a city girl and I loved wild nature but hated suburbs, I hated the idea of being a housewife with the fire of ten thousand suns because I thought it was depressing and degrading, and I was very committed to my professional career and had no intention of staying home with children.

 

But, once I had a kid I yearned to be home, and it didn't depress me after all (who knew?) and I simply refused to be degraded by it.  And I felt that I had accomplished enough in my career and did not feel trapped in letting it go.  And I became patient and calm.

 

Honestly it was the closest thing to a personality transplant that I can imagine.

 

As mad as I get at my DH at times, the fact is that I'm the one who changed AND I think I was right to do so.  We did a far better job with our daughter because of this.

 

But. 

 

If I still felt trapped by staying home, I wouldn't have done it.  Plain and simple.  It does not serve kids well to resent the fact that you're home taking care of them.  I saw far too much of that as a kid, growing up with mothers who really, truly had no choice in the matter--they HAD TO stay home.  It was not pretty at all.

 

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I think my husband and Quill's husband are the same man...and we are facing the same challenges right now.

 

Mu husband is not a bad man, just a poor fit for me it seems.

 

I have kept up with this discussion because after 10 years of "not sweating the small stuff", "not making it my hill to die on", prioritizing my preferences with husbands (and kids), not just taking a back seat (because I definitely do not do that), I am REALLY STRUGGLING with not ending my marriage.  I came to this thread to try to glean some insight into how much of my fed-up is magnified by hormonal swings.  This pre-menopause stuff is making me absolutely CRAZY.  I am experiencing 26 of the 34 signs from the link posted towards the beginning of this thread.  Due to this thread, I tried to discuss with husband last night at dinner without the kids.  He interrupted and let me know that I need to cut out my 3 glasses of wine a week (not taken at once) so I can sleep better.  Then, if I'm rested, I can put in 15 hours/wk into our business (which he spends maybe 4 hours/day on and we make a very GOOD living).   What????????  Not where I was going with that conversation.  Was it a conversation?  It ended up me just listening to keep the peace (and I'm pretty much resigned. Continuing to try to do the same thing expecting different results is pointless.)  It's like we are on different planets.  And this is just an example.  Quill's example above?  Replace window down with shoes in house.  I ask everyday for 10 years.  If he's being nice, he takes them off.  If he is blowing me off, he doesn't.  But he makes me ask...everytime.  In the grand scheme, not THAT big of a deal, but it IS a big deal to me.  And he knows that...for 10 years.

 

I'm not one to make a rash decision, like uprooting my children from their family unit, but geez.  I swear it it might not be easier, but it sure would be more manageable without this spouse.   Or am I just fed up because I feel CRAZY, because my hormones are CRAZY, because everything seems so much more critical these days (or the last year)?

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I'm so thankful for this post right now.  I'm actually sitting at work with tears keep coming to my eyes over something majorly silly and I know it's hormonal.    I actually sent dh an email (fairly calm) about the plans, or lack thereof, and it's actually good now but it's still crazy how things can spiral so quickly.

 

As for the out-of-the-blue, my ex claimed that I never told him I was upset or unhappy.  When I pointed out specific things that I HAD mentioned in the past his answer was "I didn't realize you were upset enough that it would lead to divorce".  So, it wasn't enough for him that things were bothering me and I was miserable until it was bad enough to affect him personally.  I didn't know it would lead to divorce until it led to divorce, kwim?  He then went through the motions of changing but it wasn't real, he didn't mean it or understand why I was unhappy so it wasn't going to last.  I think a lot of times when people say it came out of the blue, that if they were really paying attention, that isn't the case.

 

 

Lots of the same marriage and hormone issues here.....thanks to everyone for sharing.

 

Just wondering if you can elaborate on "moods".     I am very introverted so I think my moods are not as much outwardly expressed as inwardly having dark thoughts that get on a downward

spiral that's hard to break.    For example, getting convinced I have cancer..... how awful my husband/marriage is......how trapped I feel and seeing no escape.....  hating the way I look....  and of course when I am able to see/think more clearly I can tell that I was viewing things out of proportion to reality.   Things aren't perfect for sure but there are times when I can't find one good thing or an ounce of

gratitude.   Everything is bad, bad, bad in my mind, for a time, and then I'll snap out of it.    Repeat cycle.   

 

Anyway, just wondering about that.    I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning at my next gyn appt.    I always thought they would ask questions about that to put people on mood altering meds when maybe they are getting at hormonal stuff.

 

The bolded above is soooo me.  When those thoughts would start I knew that my period would be starting shortly.  Now it seems to happen on a random basis.  My regular gp did put me on anti-depressants for a little while.  I didn't notice any real difference or things getting better, although just being aware of it helps some.

 

That is a hard one, and one I am going to a counselor to try to work out.

 

I was always taught to put others first.  You know, that whole JOY thing (Jesus, Others, then You) and then you will find happiness.   Who knows, maybe I am being selfish, but I don't think a little anagram answers life issues.

 

I also feel that I am a very upfront person.  I say it like it is.  I have since we started dating, actually BEFORE we started dating.  I told DH I am a city girl and want to live in a city.  I also told him I never intended to be a SAHM.  He was fine with all of it.  Until he wasn't.    I complied.  I was actually agreeable to an extent.  But now I am hating it to the point that I can't do it anymore.  I feel I was very upfront about it prior to marriage.  MY rules haven't changed.  His seem to have.

 

As for how I look.  I am seeing the counselor about that one too.  I have gained a significant amount of weight and we are trying to determine if some of it is some sort of mild depression.

 

 

Dawn

 

I'd have a hard time continuing with a path that I truly hated.   I'd have to work really hard at a compromise that works for both of us.  

I never expected to be a SAHM (didn't expect to remarry and have more kids either).  I didn't find it came naturally to me, especially once we started homeschooling but I didn't hate it.  I returned to work because I had to but in a lot of ways I find working more satisfying.  I lucked out in my job, and the kids are still homeschooling which I'm sure helps, but having the opportunity to spend time with other adults where the duties and rules are clearly spelled out is great.

 

I will say I don't have any biblical or religious ideas about gender roles or interactions so I'm not coming from that viewpoint.

 

A lot of things are discussed later, though this one most likely won't be, because there are bigger fish to fry. But I don't know what the answer is to stalemates. Kind of like what Dawn is saying above. There is no middle ground between being at home and not. She can only give up her own dreams (temporarily or permanently) or pursue them against his wishes.

Or take a car for example. Our van needs to be replaced. I'm not terribly picky about what car we get to replace the van; i just want it to meet certain needs for gas mileage, reliability, etc. so, there are two models that would fit the bill. But -oh, I'm sure you are so surprised - these two models are emphatically not acceptable to dh. So, one one hand, I don't care so much, there are any number of models that would be acceptable to me; all he needs to do is research it a bit and present me with a case to support his picks. But OTOH, I ask why must my choices be rejected out of hand? Also, he is not looking in to it. If left to him, we will have the van until I am left stranded on rt. 70 - and beyond, because that has in fact, already happened in this van.

 

The car example reminds me of when I kept trying to get DH to do something about us getting life insurance when the kids were babies.   He never did anything about it (and with his work schedule at the time, he needed to be involved in setting it up) until one day in a passing comment kind of way I said "you know, if anything ever happened to you, the kids and I would be homeless."   A little hyperbole there but not completely inaccurate.  He set up appointments not long after that.

 

Have you talked to him about how you feel unsafe in the van?  That you worry about getting stranded with the kids?  

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I'm interested, because I do a lot of marriage counseling. What book do you use?

 

Joanne, I don't think you would use it... :001_smile:  It's a Christian book, Preparing for Marriage God's Way by Wayne Mack.  And since now the title is out here, I'll also say that it is not a perfect book.  A bit hoky in some places ("put on your thinking cap!") and way too many "look up this verse..." sections.  But there are some things that are quite good; as I said there is a strong emphasis on communication. Including nonverbal which is so important and sometimes neglected.  We do an exercise with the couples that is fun and very enlightening.  We've found just a couple of things in the book that seem a bit off to us, and we discuss those with the couples too. 

 

My husband and I have had a lot of communication struggles over the years.  It is interesting to revisit all that with these young couples.  For example, I have developed a bad case of BRF as I've aged, and look mad a good bit of the time.  But even worse, my "I'm confused" look apparently is easily confused with my "I'm mad!" look.  It has taken a long time for me to remember to say "I'm confused, not mad" when my husband... confuses me. ;) 

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I was thinking about this thread in the shower.  My hormones hit me in all of my interactions with people (and not just people).  I have to stuff down my annoyance at the grocery clerk who is snapping her gum, at the person who stole my parking spot at the mall, at the little kids who are too rambunctious in a public place (at least to my menopausal nerves).  I notice it of course more with my dh because he's with me more and I can't correct his behavior in a way that I can with my kids.  But it's not his fault that my hormones are going wild.  Neither is it my kid's fault or the dogs' or the cat's.  For that matter it isn't really my fault either but it is my responsibility to control myself.  I did talk to my doctor just this week about some hormonal issues.  I think there is a place for that.  I did that for my husband's sake as well as my own.  I think like all things there is a continuum of how badly it hits one person versus another, when it hits them worse etc.  I do think that I'm at a time of my life when I can do more about my environment and my circumstances than I could when I was a teen.  So I can schedule "menopausal break days" when I go off by myself.  I can outsource certain things for my kids more.  I can choose to go on certain diets (even without caffeine and sugar, Dawn!) or not, and can choose to go to the doctor or get certain supplements.  

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I know...I'm going to give it my best, but I think transition's going to be pretty rough! Lol

If I tried it, I would have to be alone on a desert island or something, because I would fear for the safety of anyone near me if I had to cut out both caffeine and sugar.

 

It wouldn't be pretty.

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I have to be completely honest. I think that I would be absolutely wretched if I did not take that time to recharge my batteries. Often times, I feel overwhelmed with the house, the kids, etc...I just must be alone. Just because my DH has his issues, does not mean I should throw mine out the window. I know a lot of women, including myself, that ignore how they feel in order to make everyone else's happiness a priority. The problem with this though, is that it festers, and eventually rears it's ugly head. So what if you were on vacation, and someone *might* think he's a "weekend dad." Is that more important than trying to give mom down time? I don't think so.

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 "Don't *I* ever get to decide how the Christmas picture should be?"

 

 

Do you usually get to decide about the picture? Coordinate the outfits, determine the setting, etc.? Because I usually do. ;) I spend a lot of time and energy deciding on exactly how I want to picture to look. I can get a little crazy about it, truth be told. I just want the "perfect picture", is that too much to ask? ;)

 

Anyway, maybe this is your DH's way of saying that he would like the pictures to be a more collaborative effort? Or maybe he doesn't like the stress of having to stage the perfect photo? Maybe he just has a different idea of what makes a picture "perfect", kwim? Can you compromise? Maybe he would like a fun, "real" picture of you all just relaxing at the beach, sweaty, sandy, wet, and all? I think that would make a beautiful picture. I think I would wait until "the golden hour" for the best light, if possible. But I think you may be surprised at how beautiful a relaxed picture can be. At the end of a long day at the beach there is usually such a feeling of togetherness and contentment and the spell would be broken by going home to change. IDK how long you are there, but could you do a "just as you are" photo at the end of the day at the beach and then a "cleaned, dressed, and groomed" photo at the beach the next day (morning might be easiest for this shot)? You have a lot of time to decide which to use for the card. Or you could use both with the many collage options there are now. 

 

Just some thoughts. ((hugs)) I hope you can work it out so that you each feel heard and have your needs met. 

 

 

 

ETA: This may not be about the photos at all. Maybe he is feeling a lack of control in some other area of life? Or maybe he is not feeling heard and validated. I would try for a compromise about the photo first, being aware that it may open up other feelings. 

 

 

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Joanne, I don't think you would use it... :001_smile:  It's a Christian book, Preparing for Marriage God's Way by Wayne Mack.  And since now the title is out here, I'll also say that it is not a perfect book.  A bit hoky in some places ("put on your thinking cap!") and way too many "look up this verse..." sections.  But there are some things that are quite good; as I said there is a strong emphasis on communication. Including nonverbal which is so important and sometimes neglected.  We do an exercise with the couples that is fun and very enlightening.  We've found just a couple of things in the book that seem a bit off to us, and we discuss those with the couples too. 

 

 

 

I have Christian clients, and I meet clients at their spiritual space. I am trained to offer "Christian" counseling, and if my clients prefer such resources, I am happy and competent to go there. :)

 

One that the place I earned my Master's is currently using is:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Focused-Marriage-Counseling-Guide-Therapy/dp/0830815481/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406141233&sr=8-1&keywords=hope+based+marriage+counseling

 

I haven't had a chance to read it, but I am familiar with other Worthington resources.

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Here's another little vacation vignette to illustrate a point about communicating needs not being a total solution:

 

(Keeping in mind that in no way do I consider this event a big deal of itself; just that it speaks to a disagreeable attitude I know of no way to help.). We were heading by car to a restaurant yesterday. He had his window down. The noise of the highway was irritating me. So I asked, "honey, could you wind up the window? It's so loud with it down." He said, "No. I want it down." Well, okay then.

 

In a perfect relationship, he does not want me to endure the deafening roar of cars and that infernal Blu Bunny Ice Cream Truck jingle and I don't want him to feel airless and hot. But that is not what we have, here. So in this instance, he "won" and I "lost." I'm sure there are many other moments when I "win" and he "loses." I don't know how you can look for a win-win if both parties are not attempting to find it.

I guess I see it a little different.   You both lost.  There are no winners and losers in marriage.  You win together or you lose together.  I might suggest that the communication doesn't end on that note.  I would sit down and talk to dh and bring up the situation that happened.  You can explain the reason you wanted the car window up and tell him how you felt when he responded with No.  I think you should express that you want to understand him & where he's coming from just as you want him to understand you.  Talk to him about compromise and what that might look like for the two of you.  My concern is if situations like the one above are getting to you and causing you to think in the frame of mind of him having won, you'll end up harboring a lot of negativity and it'll come out as irritation and anger towards him.  That's part of how we get into these bad cycles.  One person is frustrated because they don't feel someone heard or listened to their request.  The other person doesn't see what the big deal is.  Then back to the first person, they get resentful and bitter.  Meanwhile most often (not always) neither of the parties have ever really sat down as often as necessary and talked about communication and meeting each others needs.  Best of luck, I know this isn't easy.

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I hope I don't regret opening this subject. *blush*

 

In the meno thread, I was happy to have the assurance that many things I don't love about myself at the moment do in fact go hand-in-hand with hormonal changes of peri menopause. What I find difficult, though, is figuring out how to not move to Tijuana in the middle of the night, leaving dh to figure out how the washing machine works and what to do with the chickens.

 

DH has hormonal effects all by his marvelous self; he is 51. He is more irritable, more retreating, more sleepy and less interested in brewing a cup of TeA. But I am not much help, because oftentimes I couldn't care less about some peppy brew, just want to go to my bedroom and shut out the world, don't feel chatty, don't want to be "on." I can see the potential marriage neglect.

 

We are on vacation now. Last night, dh and the kids wanted to walk to DQ and get ice cream. I can't eat ice cream anymore (Lactose Intolerance), and I had that whole comfortable-here-now-and-don't-want-to-go-walking-now thing happening, so I told them to go without me. Dh was quite miffed. "This is family time, don't you want to go with your family?" To watch you all eat ice cream? Not so much.

 

Anyway, that's just one little vignette, but I can see how his andropause changes combined with my peri meno changes could really put a hurtin on the marriage. Anyone have any insight as to how to get through it intact? (And please don't say counseling, because there is pretty much not a snowman's chance of that.)

Eh, you suck it up and power through, like you get through all the other hard times in life.  And try to be kind and forgiving to each other, remembering that you will come out on the other side as a sweet old couple and be glad.    Your husband should gladly go off with the kids and not be concerned if you don't want to watch them eat ice cream. It's not a personal indictment of his character if you don't want to watch them eat ice cream!   You can walk on the beach -or wherever you are - when they get back. 

 

Peri- and Menopause are not fun, but what's the alternative? 

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Do you usually get to decide about the picture? Coordinate the outfits, determine the setting, etc.? Because I usually do. ;) I spend a lot of time and energy deciding on exactly how I want to picture to look. I can get a little crazy about it, truth be told. I just want the "perfect picture", is that too much to ask? ;)

 

Anyway, maybe this is your DH's way of saying that he would like the pictures to be a more collaborative effort? Or maybe he doesn't like the stress of having to stage the perfect photo? Maybe he just has a different idea of what makes a picture "perfect", kwim? Can you compromise? Maybe he would like a fun, "real" picture of you all just relaxing at the beach, sweaty, sandy, wet, and all? I think that would make a beautiful picture. I think I would wait until "the golden hour" for the best light, if possible. But I think you may be surprised at how beautiful a relaxed picture can be. At the end of a long day at the beach there is usually such a feeling of togetherness and contentment and the spell would be broken by going home to change. IDK how long you are there, but could you do a "just as you are" photo at the end of the day at the beach and then a "cleaned, dressed, and groomed" photo at the beach the next day (morning might be easiest for this shot)? You have a lot of time to decide which to use for the card. Or you could use both with the many collage options there are now. 

 

Just some thoughts. ((hugs)) I hope you can work it out so that you each feel heard and have your needs met. 

 

 

 

ETA: This may not be about the photos at all. Maybe he is feeling a lack of control in some other area of life? Or maybe he is not feeling heard and validated. I would try for a compromise about the photo first, being aware that it may open up other feelings. 

It's almost never about the specific subject at hand, and always about power, rejection, bitterness, fear, or some other underlying motivation. 

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Re. the peri/hormonal rage thing, I found that a nutrient totally took care of this.  It's borage oil, same active ingredient as evening primrose oil, which is often recommended for PMS.  Two big 1300mg capsules night and morning starting with day 14 going until day 1 knocked that right out for me.  I found that I could use less and it would still be effective, but the amount that you can back off varies.

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I have Christian clients, and I meet clients at their spiritual space. I am trained to offer "Christian" counseling, and if my clients prefer such resources, I am happy and competent to go there. :)

 

One that the place I earned my Master's is currently using is:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Focused-Marriage-Counseling-Guide-Therapy/dp/0830815481/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406141233&sr=8-1&keywords=hope+based+marriage+counseling

 

I haven't had a chance to read it, but I am familiar with other Worthington resources.

Do you ever use His needs Her needs?

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Sometimes it really is about the Christmas picture. Or the window on the car. Or...

Sometimes.  But rarely.  Otherwise, when she says, "Would you mind putting the window up because the wind is forceful" he does it.  Or vice versa.  Unless there is a power struggle going on or some other reason related to breathing or something. 

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I keep seeing the recommendation for supplements to be taken Day 14, or Day 1 through Day 12, or whatever.  Who the heck can tell what day it is these days? I don't have a dang clue anymore.   :thumbdown:   Does that mean I need to skip these supplements?

 

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Do you usually get to decide about the picture? Coordinate the outfits, determine the setting, etc.? Because I usually do. ;) I spend a lot of time and energy deciding on exactly how I want to picture to look. I can get a little crazy about it, truth be told. I just want the "perfect picture", is that too much to ask? ;)

 

Anyway, maybe this is your DH's way of saying that he would like the pictures to be a more collaborative effort? Or maybe he doesn't like the stress of having to stage the perfect photo? Maybe he just has a different idea of what makes a picture "perfect", kwim? Can you compromise? Maybe he would like a fun, "real" picture of you all just relaxing at the beach, sweaty, sandy, wet, and all? I think that would make a beautiful picture. I think I would wait until "the golden hour" for the best light, if possible. But I think you may be surprised at how beautiful a relaxed picture can be. At the end of a long day at the beach there is usually such a feeling of togetherness and contentment and the spell would be broken by going home to change. IDK how long you are there, but could you do a "just as you are" photo at the end of the day at the beach and then a "cleaned, dressed, and groomed" photo at the beach the next day (morning might be easiest for this shot)? You have a lot of time to decide which to use for the card. Or you could use both with the many collage options there are now.

 

Just some thoughts. ((hugs)) I hope you can work it out so that you each feel heard and have your needs met.

 

 

 

ETA: This may not be about the photos at all. Maybe he is feeling a lack of control in some other area of life? Or maybe he is not feeling heard and validated. I would try for a compromise about the photo first, being aware that it may open up other feelings.

No, it is not about the pictures. In twenty years, he has not cared one jot about the photo, the card style, whom I send them to or when. If I did not plan it (and it has happened a few times), there would be no Christmas card.

 

He definitely has other issues. Hence, this thread.

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No, it is not about the pictures. In twenty years, he has not cared one jot about the photo, the card style, whom I send them to or when. If I did not plan it (and it has happened a few times), there would be no Christmas card.

 

He definitely has other issues. Hence, this thread.

Oops. Sorry that I misunderstood. 

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But I also think that there is a line between not being yourself and being rude. I think that if being yourself means that you can be selfish, outspoken to the point of being rude, etc in the name of "being yourself." then that is not right either. Maybe I've had a bad day, but that does not give me the right to take it out on my husband. And if you are that way all of the time, is he really going to want to be around you? That said, you don't need to be a Stepford wife either. I think there is a balance. I have to be nice and listen to my children, even when I don't feel like it. My therapist does like that about me...I do the right thing whether I feel like it or not. Sometimes my feelings catch up. Sometimes not. I think there has to be grace on both sides, but at the same time bad behavior should not be tolerated in the long term. An off day, ok. A pattern, not ok.

I agree with you on this. I know someone who has this as her go-to phrase, "hey, i just tell it like it is." No, you speak without a thought in your head!

 

The number one reason I decided to accept treatment with a SRI drug was because I do NOT want to become an insufferable b@tch for the next decade. I have watched a few women around me do that and I don't want that. So yes, I agree with you, but OTOH, like Sparkly Unicorn said, one should not have to pretend everything's just fine-fine-fine so as to maintain the illusion of peace.

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One thing I've learned is that I don't MAKE my husband mad.  I will say or do something and then he chooses how he will respond to it - with grace or with anger or indifference or. . .   Same is true for me.  Despite our common saying of "he made me so mad", it really is my choice how I respond.  Now I might respond appropriately with a boundary or by calling something bs if it really is, but it is a thought out response that doesn't control me.

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It has been widely reported that women initiate 2/3 of divorces in middle age, and that women report being happier post divorce than they were before, while men do not.

 

I think women's incentives for staying married are diluted sometimes in middle age. Often the couple has enough financial security that a woman thinks she will be OK with half the assets. She is no longer as concerned about how divorce will effect the children, now that they are older. She feels more "up" for the challenge of changing her life, getting a job if necessary, and being on her own. On the other hand, most of us, for religious or social reasons or because we want to honor our vows, do believe that staying married is better than divorcing.

 

So I wonder if as couples reach middle age, it wouldn't be wise for women to do a honest inventory of why they want to be be married to their spouses, and if they want to remain married, to figure out how to start focusing on their own happiness, health, contentment and goals. Since the unhappiness of women appears to be more of the issue that starts divorces, I would think that often women would do well to adjust their behaviors. Instead of trying to always keep the peace, keep their man happy, and avoid doing anything to rock the boat, I wonder if women wouldn't do better to work on figuring out how to be happy themselves, while obviously still caring about her husband's happiness.

 

It seems to me that an annoyed woman watching her husband flip channels at night might do better to just say, "I am not going to do this anymore." It's not good for her or her husband or her marriage for her to sit there stewing. Obviously there are times we make compromises. We move where we don't want for a spouse's career, welcome inlaws we don't really care for, eat Chinese when we wanted Italian, or watch Kung Fu when we wanted to read. And I think most men make those kinds of compromises too. But I also think sometimes we have to choose ourselves and our spouses adjust, especially as the demands of young children aren't there. I don't have any easy solution that would work for everyone, but I just thought I would point out that a woman who constantly swallows her own thoughts, desires, goals, and preferences "for the sake of the marriage" might actually be putting that marriage at greater risk than a woman who figures out how to enjoy this period, accomplish things that matter to her, and create some energy and excitement in her own life.

I think this is wise and spot-on. And i'm sure you are right that it is easier for a woman to contemplate being unmarried when she's forty-couple, her kids are not so vulnerable, and there's no reason not to accept working, being an earner.

 

This is perhaps a strange admission, because I emphatically have loved motherhood and working only in the family business, hsing and being present for my kids for these past 17 years. But, I was doing a power point for my Management class and needed photos of women in business settings to illustrate workplace diversity. Looking at the photos of attractive women, looking so together and powerful, briefcases in hand, being regarded with respect by colleagues...it gave me a pang of envy. I had the briefest thought of, "I want that to be me." I did work in a professional office years ago, though I was a lowly plebe. I was wistful about it for a couple of minutes. My mind went on a bunny trail, thinking about how I do have a connection, albeit tenuous, with one of the attorneys from my old office. He is my "friend" on FB. So off went my brain, wondering if I could lay some groundwork with the attorney via FB; it is a way back into a professional work life. WOAH, NELLIE! I got carried away in la-la land...:D

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Have you talked to him about how you feel unsafe in the van? That you worry about getting stranded with the kids?

 

Yeah, he knows. He agrees the van needs to be replaced. This is a great example of something about him that has changed, which I attribute to his hormonal changes. He is not pressed about taking care of anything. Whenever he gets around to it...When I met him, one of the most attractive things about him was that he was on fire. He was a do-er. He and his dad and brothers are all pilots. They built an airplane that won prestigious awards with the Experimental Aircraft Association. They were featured in a national magazine. He started two companies. He built a motorcycle. He restored a '66 Ford Mustang. He built our homes.

 

Now? Not so much.

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Yeah, he knows. He agrees the van needs to be replaced. This is a great example of something about him that has changed, which I attribute to his hormonal changes. He is not pressed about taking care of anything. Whenever he gets around to it...When I met him, one of the most attractive things about him was that he was on fire. He was a do-er. He and his dad and brothers are all pilots. They built an airplane that won prestigious awards with the Experimental Aircraft Association. They were featured in a national magazine. He started two companies. He built a motorcycle. He restored a '66 Ford Mustang. He built our homes.

 

Now? Not so much.

That must be heartbreaking to watch. Does he have a reason for his apathy now?

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That's got to be tough to watch. I'm sorry.

 

 

Yeah, he knows. He agrees the van needs to be replaced. This is a great example of something about him that has changed, which I attribute to his hormonal changes. He is not pressed about taking care of anything. Whenever he gets around to it...When I met him, one of the most attractive things about him was that he was on fire. He was a do-er. He and his dad and brothers are all pilots. They built an airplane that won prestigious awards with the Experimental Aircraft Association. They were featured in a national magazine. He started two companies. He built a motorcycle. He restored a '66 Ford Mustang. He built our homes.

 

Now? Not so much.

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That must be heartbreaking to watch. Does he have a reason for his apathy now?

I haven't asked him, because I wouldn't want to make him feel like a slug. I think he would say he doesn't have the energy to do things like that now.

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Has he had his testosterone levels checked? Low T would fit a lot of his symptoms... Of course getting a guy to get that checked can be rather difficult... Don't ask me how I know.

I would bet on it. The probability of him investigating it are exceedingly low. He has commented before on the commercials for Rx that treat low t, because nine-tenths of the air time is warnings and contraindications.

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I haven't asked him, because I wouldn't want to make him feel like a slug. I think he would say he doesn't have the energy to do things like that now.

I would say something. There's got to be a gentle way to address it that won't make him feel like a slug. If roles were reversed would you want to know that the love of your life noticed something is wrong and is concerned?

 

ETA: And if I'm being too pushy, ignore me. :)

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I would say something. There's got to be a gentle way to address it that won't make him feel like a slug. If roles were reversed would you want to know that the love of your life noticed something is wrong and is concerned?

 

ETA: And if I'm being too pushy, ignore me. :)

But isn't there a part of this that comes down to accepting aging? We are all going to peter out.

 

Recently, someone in the family commented about some work that needs to be done at our house. The family member said, "i wouldn't wait on him any longer. You know the number of the guy who does this work. You should just call him and schedule it yourself." I didn't do this. It makes me feel like I'm blowing past dh. It seems emasculating. Hostile even. Like I'm saying, "Get out the way, slowpoke. I'm calling Carlos to come knock this work out in an afternoon."

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Wait.  Does Carlos have suntan lotion?   :lol:

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

 

But isn't there a part of this that comes down to accepting aging? We are all going to peter out.

Recently, someone in the family commented about some work that needs to be done at our house. The family member said, "i wouldn't wait on him any longer. You know the number of the guy who does this work. You should just call him and schedule it yourself." I didn't do this. It makes me feel like I'm blowing past dh. It seems emasculating. Hostile even. Like I'm saying, "Get out the way, slowpoke. I'm calling Carlos to come knock this work out in an afternoon."

 

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I've called "Carlos" before.  Dh is busy and can't get to everything.  But  having said that, I did ask him "do you think you can get to this soon or want to get to it, or do you want me to find someone to do it"?  Sometimes I take a very long time to get to things.  Sometimes dh takes a very long time to get to things.  We both give each other grace on that.  But sometimes it's nice to have someone take it off of our hands.

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But isn't there a part of this that comes down to accepting aging? We are all going to peter out.

 

Recently, someone in the family commented about some work that needs to be done at our house. The family member said, "i wouldn't wait on him any longer. You know the number of the guy who does this work. You should just call him and schedule it yourself." I didn't do this. It makes me feel like I'm blowing past dh. It seems emasculating. Hostile even. Like I'm saying, "Get out the way, slowpoke. I'm calling Carlos to come knock this work out in an afternoon."

I agree with you on both points. With the second, I think there is a gentler way of broaching the subject and as aPP said we need to extend grace to each other in marriage as we grow, change, age... I must have misread your description of his get 'er done spirit and thought it sounded more like a switch had been thrown than his energy petering out.

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Yeah, he knows. He agrees the van needs to be replaced. This is a great example of something about him that has changed, which I attribute to his hormonal changes. He is not pressed about taking care of anything. Whenever he gets around to it...When I met him, one of the most attractive things about him was that he was on fire. He was a do-er. He and his dad and brothers are all pilots. They built an airplane that won prestigious awards with the Experimental Aircraft Association. They were featured in a national magazine. He started two companies. He built a motorcycle. He restored a '66 Ford Mustang. He built our homes.

Now? Not so much.

Could he be suffering from depression?

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Although saying day 1 is the day you start your period would be confusing to me.  Day 1 meaning the first tiny spot?  Or day 1 meaning heavy flow?

 

Too much info, but really I can't tell what is day one.  It comes on spotty for days before and after the main "event".

 

Again...sorry for TMI, but I'm just telling it like it is.

 

I don't count spots .............are we meant to count spots?

 

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But isn't there a part of this that comes down to accepting aging? We are all going to peter out.

 

Recently, someone in the family commented about some work that needs to be done at our house. The family member said, "i wouldn't wait on him any longer. You know the number of the guy who does this work. You should just call him and schedule it yourself." I didn't do this. It makes me feel like I'm blowing past dh. It seems emasculating. Hostile even. Like I'm saying, "Get out the way, slowpoke. I'm calling Carlos to come knock this work out in an afternoon."

 

I would have called Carlos. Okay, I have called Carlos. Dh didn't even notice that the work was done for months. He wasn't emasculated; he was relieved. I also went ahead and started looking at vans. I did test drive my top choices over to dh's office where he got to have a look. I then purchased van. This has led to my being in charge of all vehicle purchases (we tend to purchase a lot of vehicles...) Not something I really wanted to take over, but it seems I have a knack for getting good deals?

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I also wanted to say, he is allergic to doctors. There are numerous medical things he should be doing that he doesn't and I have said so. He should have his eyes examined, for instance, but he hasn't. He just buys Walmart readers and calls it good. He hasn't had anything like bloodwork done in...ever?

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Here is our problem with Carlos.  DH CAN do the work, he wants to do the work, but he has no time.  But he is also an accountant......so ANY money spent on something he is able to do and he just can't stand it.

 

He is finally now agreeing to get some things hired out so we can get this house on the market.  Meanwhile, I have lived with things not working or in need or repair for years because he doesn't want to spend the money.  We aren't broke or poor, we CAN hire it out, he just hates spending it.

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Here is our problem with Carlos.  DH CAN do the work, he wants to do the work, but he has no time.  But he is also an accountant......so ANY money spent on something he is able to do and he just can't stand it.

 

He is finally now agreeing to get some things hired out so we can get this house on the market.  Meanwhile, I have lived with things not working or in need or repair for years because he doesn't want to spend the money.  We aren't broke or poor, we CAN hire it out, he just hates spending it.

Oh. My. We are living with the same man.  The not wanting to spend the money thing makes me crazy.  I have a hard time not interpreting it as 'I don't care what you have to suffer with.  Money in the bank is more important.'  I know it isn't really that, but I get tired of having a major ongoing conversation about every single major purchase.  Currently we need a new refrigerator.  Ours is not keeping things cold enough and the freezer is allowing food to thaw and freeze again.  It is about 40 years old.  We have been having a discussion about it for months.  I am so tempted to just go buy one, but he would be so mad.  Same thing happened when my 17 year old car needed major repairs and I thought it was time to buy a new (read pre-owned) one.  In the end we always end up buying whatever it is and the sky doesn't fall, but I have to be willing to go through the conversations before it happens.  I'm getting like everyone else here mood swings and cranky, and it's getting very old.  I'm mostly biting my tongue though b/c he lost his job last year and was unemployed for a while and now very stressed with his new job, so I'm not wanting to add any more stress.

 

ETA: I am alos noticing some things about how Dh deals with things and wondering if it is all b/c of stress, or if there are other factors relating to age or hormones.  I have a hard time deciding if he has always handled things this way and I have just noticed, or if age and hormones are a factor.  I'm thankful for this thread b/c it really never occurred to me that men could go through hormonal swings.

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I also wanted to say, he is allergic to doctors. There are numerous medical things he should be doing that he doesn't and I have said so. He should have his eyes examined, for instance, but he hasn't. He just buys Walmart readers and calls it good. He hasn't had anything like bloodwork done in...ever?

 

Do you have someone in your life - close friend or relative, maybe your husband has a brother he's close to - that you can talk to and have him talk to your husband?    'Cause there are a lot of signals here that all is not well with him.   Sometimes it is easier to hear things from someone other than the wife, kwim?  I don't even think it's intentional, or at least not always.   I don't like to chalk it up to "that's the way men are" but in my observation it just seems that way. 

 

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Here is our problem with Carlos. DH CAN do the work, he wants to do the work, but he has no time. But he is also an accountant......so ANY money spent on something he is able to do and he just can't stand it.

 

He is finally now agreeing to get some things hired out so we can get this house on the market. Meanwhile, I have lived with things not working or in need or repair for years because he doesn't want to spend the money. We aren't broke or poor, we CAN hire it out, he just hates spending it.

This is us, to, except DH is a contractor and THAT is why he cannot bear to hire Carlos.

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