S/o on menopause - keeping your marriage together as hormones mess with everything

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh dear God, if that's what it takes, I'm out. I simply cannot find it in me to do these things. It's quite possible that I've turned into a cold, hard *****, because that list makes me feel like I'd be going to marriage jail.

 

I'm not saying it won't work for other people.

 

I agree!!!

 

Maybe that list would be perfect for someone else.  For me it would have been the nail in the coffin of our marriage.

[Belacqua]

I love my dh, but those suggestions sounded like overkill to me. I don't even think my dh would like that much attention, and he'd think I'd found out he only had weeks to live if I suddenly started kissing up to him so much. ;)

 

Same here. If either of us is being unusually pleasant or patient, the other will invariably ask, "Am I dying? What have you heard?"

 

But while the specifics of the list certainly won't work for all of us, I think the spirit of it is valuable. I'm interpreting that as: we need to remember the little kindnesses that work for us and make ourselves do them (whether that's folding laundry in the common room or not running the dryer when somebody is trying to watch Cosmos...). At least most of the time. Even when we would sooner pinch somebody's head off.

 

But in our case, the occasional closed door has been a tremendous benefit, not a hindrance. I can't throw stuff at anybody through a closed door.

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree that little kindnesses are both appreciated and necessary.  Lists like that don't tend to read to me like that though.  Maybe because of my own past baggage?  But legalism has no place in marriage in my opinion - as in "you should do xyz to keep the marriage going".  Also marriage and family in general is where we are our own true selves.  We don't stand on ceremony and it is safe to let our emotions show.  I don't mean that we should be rude and crude and abusive but you can be "real" without being any of those things.  I think that a marriage has to have a certain security to it in order to allow that to happen.  My marriage has not always been roses by any means but I've never ever wondered if I was going to parent alone (unless I were to be widowed) or if our marriage was going to last.  We promised that it would last.  

 

 

[DawnM]

DH is currently watching a show that is BORING......America's Test Kitchen.  If a commercial even hints of coming on, a channel flipping he will go.   :bored:

 

However, if he goes downstairs to the other TV in his "man cave" I will accuse him of not spending time with me.

 

He can't win.  Really, there is something wrong with me.  :cursing:

 

Although it would be nice if he could ask me what I would like to watch. 

[TCB]

 

I agree that little kindnesses are both appreciated and necessary.  Lists like that don't tend to read to me like that though.  Maybe because of my own past baggage?  But legalism has no place in marriage in my opinion - as in "you should do xyz to keep the marriage going".  Also marriage and family in general is where we are our own true selves.  We don't stand on ceremony and it is safe to let our emotions show.  I don't mean that we should be rude and crude and abusive but you can be "real" without being any of those things.  I think that a marriage has to have a certain security to it in order to allow that to happen.  My marriage has not always been roses by any means but I've never ever wondered if I was going to parent alone (unless I were to be widowed) or if our marriage was going to last.  We promised that it would last.  

 

 

 

We promised it would last too and now dh isn't so sure that it will. This has been a huge shock to me, I always thought the one thing we'd do right was always stay together. And I hope we will but now I am not sure, or rather he is not so sure. So I would just like to say - please don't take it for granted. I have been going through menopause for the last 5 years and I have kept him up to date on how I'm feeling etc, but I guess it hasn't been what was needed to help him understand.

 

ETA - I meant please don't anyone take it for granted - not just Jean who I quoted

[PrincessMommy]

We promised it would last too and now dh isn't so sure that it will. This has been a huge shock to me, I always thought the one thing we'd do right was always stay together. And I hope we will but now I am not sure, or rather he is not so sure. So I would just like to say - please don't take it for granted. I have been going through menopause for the last 5 years and I have kept him up to date on how I'm feeling etc, but I guess it hasn't been what was needed to help him understand.

 

ETA - I meant please don't anyone take it for granted - not just Jean who I quoted

 

:grouphug:  I'm sorry - that must be like a slap in the face. 

[kroe1]

But are these really what one must do to keep the peace? And I say that in spit of generally being a peace keeper already. So, taking them individually, here's how the list looks to me:

1. I am not allowed to carve out my own solitude when I want.

2. Defer to his idea of fun at all times.

3. Look at him - i have no problem with this suggestion.

4. Not the worst piece of advice, although specifically folding clothes would make no sense, because our laundry room is upstairs.

5. Post its - cute idea.

6. Bathing, etc. no. I fix myself up every day, but I'm not going to get up at 5 so I can beat him to the shower, just so he never has to look at me with bed-head.

7. Favorite meal - yeah, ok. I cook almost every day as it is.

8. This last one I really don't get. Are you saying treat him as though he has all the answers? How can we have a relationship of equals in such a way?

First of all, you were the one who started this thread, yet, you are quite negative on my comments, which were an honest an attempt to tell you what I did wrong at that time in my life. I never offered you advice and quite frankly, in the first sentence said I cannot give you advice on what to do, only what not to do. Take it or leave it.

 

It takes quite a lot of time for people to write out these posts. Perhaps just simply ignoring or a thank you, even if you do not agree, is all that is needed.

 

At any rate, I hope you figure it out for you and your DH. It is sad to think you are struggling.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We promised it would last too and now dh isn't so sure that it will. This has been a huge shock to me, I always thought the one thing we'd do right was always stay together. And I hope we will but now I am not sure, or rather he is not so sure. So I would just like to say - please don't take it for granted. I have been going through menopause for the last 5 years and I have kept him up to date on how I'm feeling etc, but I guess it hasn't been what was needed to help him understand.

 

ETA - I meant please don't anyone take it for granted - not just Jean who I quoted

I'm quoting you, but I'm not responding directly to your personal situation.  I'm responding to the general principle of taking things for granted.  I guess I see marriage as similar to other familial relationships.  My kids know that there is nothing they can do to make me not love them.  I will always be their mom.  I see my marriage as being similar to that to some degree.  The only thing I can think of that would make me put up a firm boundary cutting things off would be marital infidelity.  I am my husband's wife.  I promised to love him and to be faithful to him.  I don't see that love as being tied to emotions.  I would cut things off with infidelity because he would have broken the promise to love and be faithful to me.  So I don't know that I'm taking things for granted.  My husband and I have talked about this and we have similar views on marriage.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

See this relates to Cat not understanding why this scares some of us.  Because the couples ( including our good friends that just announced) verbalized these EXACT sentiments.....   What changed?????  I don't get it.  Some of these couples I never thought....  Just so incredibly scary.  What exactly is permanent...  Are we really different or do we just think we are...  Because right now I would say exactly what you say Jean...  but so did those other couples.  Yet these marriages ( between 25 to 35 years in length) are gone.

 

Let me clarify.  I'm only responsible for my own thoughts and actions.  I can't do anything about my husband's fidelity to me whether it is sexual or otherwise.  But I know my own determination to be faithful.  So - from my half of the marriage equation, I know that I will not leave my marriage.  I know that he's expressed the same sentiments but of course he's the only one who could follow through on that.  If he doesn't, I would be shocked, hurt, angry . . . all the emotions I'm sure people have.  If he were unhappy with things that I could fix, I would hope and even expect him to bring those up to me because I would see that kind of honesty as part of being active in a marriage.  And I would want to do the same if I was unhappy.  

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[marbel]

First of all, you were the one who started this thread, yet, you are quite negative on my comments, which were an honest an attempt to tell you what I did wrong at that time in my life. I never offered you advice and quite frankly, in the first sentence said I cannot give you advice on what to do, only what not to do. Take it or leave it.

 

It takes quite a lot of time for people to write out these posts. Perhaps just simply ignoring or a thank you, even if you do not agree, is all that is needed.

 

At any rate, I hope you figure it out for you and your DH. It is sad to think you are struggling.

I think your post could be very helpful if you joined in the conversation.  People are talking about some of the things you wrote.  I know I am not certain what some of your points mean exactly.  For example, I wonder what made you determine you must always be in eyesight and why it was not OK to ask your husband a question.   Of course you don't have to respond to me but I think you could give some good insights.    I found your post interesting, even intriguing, but rather cryptic.  That's not meant as a criticism, but perhaps to explain why people are commenting on it. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[TCB]

I am one who would have said exactly what Jean said, and for me I say it still, I still believe that. I thought my dh believed it too, we've been married 18 years, I really felt I knew him. We are still together and I hope and pray that we will always be. But the fact that we might not has been a huge shock and I can't even begin to describe the emotions I have faced and am facing. I never knew or imagined how much this would hurt. I have to admit to being pretty judgmental, at times, about other peoples marriages - I've certainly come to realize that I just had no idea.

[Catwoman]

I am one who would have said exactly what Jean said, and for me I say it still, I still believe that. I thought my dh believed it too, we've been married 18 years, I really felt I knew him. We are still together and I hope and pray that we will always be. But the fact that we might not has been a huge shock and I can't even begin to describe the emotions I have faced and am facing. I never knew or imagined how much this would hurt. I have to admit to being pretty judgmental, at times, about other peoples marriages - I've certainly come to realize that I just had no idea.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry. :(

 

This may not be the best time to mention this, but if there is any chance of a divorce, I hope you have consulted with a good divorce attorney so you know your legal rights in the event of a separation. I would also advise you to start putting some money aside for yourself if possible, and to know every last detail of your family's financial situation so there will be no questions later.

 

Hope for the best, but prepare carefully for the worst. Protect yourself -- and assume your dh is doing the exact same thing on his end.

[jaderbee]

My observations about things that cause (usually) women to flip out and divorce seemingly suddenly...

 

1. Years of unresolved resentment and conflict

2. Inability to see that your partner has made an effort to change things you have been unhappy with

3. Voicing said resentments to people who are not 'friends of your marriage' which leads to encouragement to abandon your vows

4. Voicing unhappiness to an opposite sex person which very often leads to affairs which often turn into exit affairs.

5. Failure to feed your marriage...

6. Failure to care for yourself.

#3 reminded me of a story Zig Ziglar has about one of his daughters. She and her husband were going through an awful patch in their marriage. Each of them reached out to friends for support. Both said none of their friends encouraged them to stay together and work things out. That's so sad.

[Joanne]

(Hugs) for the pain and fear expressed in this thread.

 

There tends to be a commonly held belief that "it takes two" to make a marriage work AND to end one.

 

It does take two, but one can ruin a marriage - solo and the other person may not have a "part" beyond being a human with a personality.

[Jean in Newcastle]

(Hugs) for the pain and fear expressed in this thread.

 

There tends to be a commonly held belief that "it takes two" to make a marriage work AND to end one.

 

It does take two, but one can ruin a marriage - solo and the other person may not have a "part" beyond being a human with a personality.

This is part of what I've been trying to get at.  i don't want it to sound like I think I'm somehow immune from problems or divorce.  I don't believe that.  I've just been talking about my part in a marriage.  I don't think that my part in a marriage is to be such a perfect wife that my husband won't leave me.  I don't think that my part is to somehow sweet talk him into staying with me.  The list approach to marriage (and it usually seems addressed to wives and not husbands) often seems to major on those kinds of things.  

 

And I very much agree about the sympathy and hugs for any pain expressed.  

[Scarlett]

I think your post could be very helpful if you joined in the conversation. People are talking about some of the things you wrote. I know I am not certain what some of your points mean exactly. For example, I wonder what made you determine you must always be in eyesight and why it was not OK to ask your husband a question. Of course you don't have to respond to me but I think you could give some good insights. I found your post interesting, even intriguing, but rather cryptic. That's not meant as a criticism, but perhaps to explain why people are commenting on it.

I agree. I didn't read her post as the death sentence that some saw it....even though some on her list would be not possible in my life. That is the point though to do our part, keep our side of the street clean....not in a desperate attempt to hold our man--yuck-- but rather an honest attempt to be the best human we can be.

[Anne]

I agree. I didn't read her post as the death sentence that some saw it....even though some on her list would be not possible in my life. That is the point though to do our part, keep our side of the street clean....not in a desperate attempt to hold our man--yuck-- but rather an honest attempt to be the best human we can be.

 

I really like the bolded part of Scarlett's post.  That's what I want in my marriage - to just be the best person I can be (never perfect or even trying to be perfect) - just trying to do the best I can, by the grace of God, day by day.  Loving my husband to the best of my ability (not obliterating myself in the process), sharing the small daily joys with him (that first cup of coffee, a daughter's phone call, peaceful evening at home), and encouraging him to do the same.

 

Ann

[MomatHWTK]

Yes, I think the idea is not to follow someone else's list but to be mindful that some things might get skipped without a reminder.  So, if I normally do little things to make my DH feel special, but because of my current physical/hormonal state suddenly could care less if I observe those niceties, then it might be a good idea to make myself a list to try to prompt myself to continue those little things. 

As far as conversations, when I am down I tend not to pull my punches with anyone, so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea for me to have a little checklist to help me not say something I'll regret later.  KWIM?   

 

The idea of not closing doors, spending time together, etc. don't have to be taken as absolutes but as reminders that it is very easy to become complacent and find yourself always closing doors, never spending time together...  moving toward a "why bother" attitude. 

 

Sometimes we have to remind ourselves to play nice in order to make it through those not very nice days.  ;)

[Melissa in Australia]

DH is currently watching a show that is BORING......America's Test Kitchen.  If a commercial even hints of coming on, a channel flipping he will go.   :bored:

 

However, if he goes downstairs to the other TV in his "man cave" I will accuse him of not spending time with me.

 

He can't win.  Really, there is something wrong with me.  :cursing:

 

Although it would be nice if he could ask me what I would like to watch. 

 

MY DH does the channel flipping thing. IT bugs me so much that I stopped watching TV, and started studying online. I am now doing my last internship before passing my degree :hurray:

Unfortunately that means that I have no more study to do in the evenings- and back to being driven mad by channel flipping :cursing:

 

 

Maybe I should get a job so I can have enough money to start studying again.

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

So while we were both in a good mood I brought up this thread with dh. I honestly didn't know men's hormones flux ( dumb me). I showed him the list and asked him what would be on a list for him. Continuing to bring him a cold drink while he gets changed after work, LOL. I should be able to do that ;-). Anyway, strange how an online forum can educate and bring about conversation.

[marbel]

Let me clarify.  I'm only responsible for my own thoughts and actions.  I can't do anything about my husband's fidelity to me whether it is sexual or otherwise.  But I know my own determination to be faithful.  So - from my half of the marriage equation, I know that I will not leave my marriage.  I know that he's expressed the same sentiments but of course he's the only one who could follow through on that.  If he doesn't, I would be shocked, hurt, angry . . . all the emotions I'm sure people have.  If he were unhappy with things that I could fix, I would hope and even expect him to bring those up to me because I would see that kind of honesty as part of being active in a marriage.  And I would want to do the same if I was unhappy.  

 

This is a key but something that is often missing.  People don't talk about their unhappiness so the partner may not even know something is wrong.  Some people are more sensitive than others and can see when their spouse is unhappy, or seems to be drifting, and can take steps to resolve the problem.  Some people are clueless when it comes to relationships and need to be shown or told everything.   When people are surprised by being handed divorced papers it often (usually?) means there has been a terrible lack of communication in the marriage.  (It can also means someone has not been acting in good faith with their spouse of course.)

 

My husband and I don't have a perfect marriage but I think it is pretty good. Lately we have been doing pre-marriage counseling for a few couples in our church.  It has been very interesting for us because, of course, it's making us look at ourselves and our own marriage.  The book we are using places a huge emphasis on communication which I think it appropriate.  Whatever the topic, finances, in-law relationships, sex, it always comes down to communication.  If one person isn't interested in communicating though, it is very hard for the person who wants to make things work.  

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:  to those who are struggling.

[Guest]

First of all, you were the one who started this thread, yet, you are quite negative on my comments, which were an honest an attempt to tell you what I did wrong at that time in my life. I never offered you advice and quite frankly, in the first sentence said I cannot give you advice on what to do, only what not to do. Take it or leave it.

 

It takes quite a lot of time for people to write out these posts. Perhaps just simply ignoring or a thank you, even if you do not agree, is all that is needed.

 

At any rate, I hope you figure it out for you and your DH. It is sad to think you are struggling.

I meant no offense. I asked for added clarification on a couple of points.

 

I would think ignoring your effort would be more offensive than asking for clarification on a few points.

[Guest]

I'm quoting you, but I'm not responding directly to your personal situation. I'm responding to the general principle of taking things for granted. I guess I see marriage as similar to other familial relationships. My kids know that there is nothing they can do to make me not love them. I will always be their mom. I see my marriage as being similar to that to some degree. The only thing I can think of that would make me put up a firm boundary cutting things off would be marital infidelity. I am my husband's wife. I promised to love him and to be faithful to him. I don't see that love as being tied to emotions. I would cut things off with infidelity because he would have broken the promise to love and be faithful to me. So I don't know that I'm taking things for granted. My husband and I have talked about this and we have similar views on marriage.

I can't say I view marriage the same way. There are things besides infidelity that would be a game-ender for me. Cruelty, for instance. As you said, he took vows to LOVE and be faithful. What if he is persistently unloving? What if I am? Is he stuck with me if I am a constant b@tch? What if he devastated our financial stability? What if he woke up one morning and announced he was never going to work for money again and I could either make some dough myself or apply for public services?

[Guest]

Have you ever tried taking natural progesteron cream to balance out the estrogen? I have been having hormonal issues and I think I have estrogen dominance, so I started using the progesteron cream for 14 days, starting on day 15 of my cycle. And it really helps me out.

 

I use Pro-Gest, and there are lots of rave reviews by perimenopausal women who use it to relieve symptoms.

 

I would be way too scared to take the pill if their was a history of breast cancer in women in my family.

I did try progesterone cream years ago when my issues were not remotely bed. :D it could be worth considering afresh. My mom's cancer was not estrogen-receptive, so there's that.

[marbel]

I can't say I view marriage the same way. There are things besides infidelity that would be a game-ender for me. Cruelty, for instance. As you said, he took vows to LOVE and be faithful. What if he is persistently unloving? What if I am? Is he stuck with me if I am a constant b@tch? What if he devastated our financial stability? What if he woke up one morning and announced he was never going to work for money again and I could either make some dough myself or apply for public services?

 

I agree with this.  These are all forms of abandonment.  Infidelity would not be the only thing for me.

 

Of course if constant b@tchiness came from hormonal upheaval then it is a medical problem, so I would not expect that to be a game-changer as long as I/we were trying to find a solution.   In sickness and in health and all that.  

[Muttichen]

Thank you for starting this thread.  I never even thought about men having hormonal issues.  Dh has been moody lately, and realizing it may be biological helps me deal with him the way I like him to deal with me when I'm hormonal -- with compassion instead of frustration.

 

I am surprised by how much opposition there is to Miniwannabee's list.  I don't agree with everything on it, but the basic idea, sacrificing yourself for someone else, is spot on.  Isn't that what love is?  I'd encourage all of you who's immediate response was, "But what about my needs?" to try putting your needs aside for a few days and really focusing on your husband's happiness.  I bet you'll be surprised at the results!

[Guest]

. If one person isn't interested in communicating though, it is very hard for the person who wants to make things work.

Yes, this. This is why it resonates with me when Joanne says one person can ruin the marriage on their own. It is possible for one spouse to say they really need or want X, Y, Z, but for the other spouse to say (in either word or deed) "I don't care," or, "that is not what I want."

[Scarlett]

Yes, this. This is why it resonates with me when Joanne says one person can ruin the marriage on their own. It is possible for one spouse to say they really need or want X, Y, Z, but for the other spouse to say (in either word or deed) "I don't care," or, "that is not what I want."

Yep. I experienced this with my first marriage. I have no problem asking for what I need and want. He. didn't. care. How he got to the point of not caring is a matter for another discussion, but the fact that some get to that point should be a cautionary tale.

[Guest]

Here's another little vacation vignette to illustrate a point about communicating needs not being a total solution:

 

(Keeping in mind that in no way do I consider this event a big deal of itself; just that it speaks to a disagreeable attitude I know of no way to help.). We were heading by car to a restaurant yesterday. He had his window down. The noise of the highway was irritating me. So I asked, "honey, could you wind up the window? It's so loud with it down." He said, "No. I want it down." Well, okay then.

 

In a perfect relationship, he does not want me to endure the deafening roar of cars and that infernal Blu Bunny Ice Cream Truck jingle and I don't want him to feel airless and hot. But that is not what we have, here. So in this instance, he "won" and I "lost." I'm sure there are many other moments when I "win" and he "loses." I don't know how you can look for a win-win if both parties are not attempting to find it.

[scootiepie]

Lots of the same marriage and hormone issues here.....thanks to everyone for sharing.

 

Just wondering if you can elaborate on "moods".     I am very introverted so I think my moods are not as much outwardly expressed as inwardly having dark thoughts that get on a downward

spiral that's hard to break.    For example, getting convinced I have cancer..... how awful my husband/marriage is......how trapped I feel and seeing no escape.....  hating the way I look....  and of course when I am able to see/think more clearly I can tell that I was viewing things out of proportion to reality.   Things aren't perfect for sure but there are times when I can't find one good thing or an ounce of

gratitude.   Everything is bad, bad, bad in my mind, for a time, and then I'll snap out of it.    Repeat cycle.   

 

Anyway, just wondering about that.    I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning at my next gyn appt.    I always thought they would ask questions about that to put people on mood altering meds when maybe they are getting at hormonal stuff.

[DawnM]

That is a hard one, and one I am going to a counselor to try to work out.

 

I was always taught to put others first.  You know, that whole JOY thing (Jesus, Others, then You) and then you will find happiness.   Who knows, maybe I am being selfish, but I don't think a little anagram answers life issues.

 

I also feel that I am a very upfront person.  I say it like it is.  I have since we started dating, actually BEFORE we started dating.  I told DH I am a city girl and want to live in a city.  I also told him I never intended to be a SAHM.  He was fine with all of it.  Until he wasn't.    I complied.  I was actually agreeable to an extent.  But now I am hating it to the point that I can't do it anymore.  I feel I was very upfront about it prior to marriage.  MY rules haven't changed.  His seem to have.

 

As for how I look.  I am seeing the counselor about that one too.  I have gained a significant amount of weight and we are trying to determine if some of it is some sort of mild depression.

 

 

Dawn

 

 

Lots of the same marriage and hormone issues here.....thanks to everyone for sharing.

 

Just wondering if you can elaborate on "moods".     I am very introverted so I think my moods are not as much outwardly expressed as inwardly having dark thoughts that get on a downward

spiral that's hard to break.    For example, getting convinced I have cancer..... how awful my husband/marriage is......how trapped I feel and seeing no escape.....  hating the way I look....  and of course when I am able to see/think more clearly I can tell that I was viewing things out of proportion to reality.   Things aren't perfect for sure but there are times when I can't find one good thing or an ounce of

gratitude.   Everything is bad, bad, bad in my mind, for a time, and then I'll snap out of it.    Repeat cycle.   

 

Anyway, just wondering about that.    I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning at my next gyn appt.    I always thought they would ask questions about that to put people on mood altering meds when maybe they are getting at hormonal stuff.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah so then it leaves you with your friend who comes to the two of you and says his wife served him with divorce papers out of the blue.  He was incredibly stunned, so were we...  That is the point.  I guess there is no way to be sure.  Nothing except eventual death is certain...  Just really really scary....

But that dynamic is true from the start.  You have no control over the other person and that means that sometimes change can be hidden from one until it is dramatically revealed.  It's the same with children who might seem compliant all their lives and then suddenly reject everything you've taught them.  So in a Christian marriage, I think that God has to be number one in both spouse's lives.  I know that my husband will have broken faith with God long before he does with me and God won't be surprised by anything.  And if I'm gobsmacked, then I'll have God to help me pick up the pieces.  And I know that God is only keeping me responsible for my end of the marriage or my end of the divorce, for that matter, if it ever came to that.  

[MomatHWTK]

Here's another little vacation vignette to illustrate a point about communicating needs not being a total solution:

 

(Keeping in mind that in no way do I consider this event a big deal of itself; just that it speaks to a disagreeable attitude I know of no way to help.). We were heading by car to a restaurant yesterday. He had his window down. The noise of the highway was irritating me. So I asked, "honey, could you wind up the window? It's so loud with it down." He said, "No. I want it down." Well, okay then.

 

 

I probably would have told DH he was being a jerk right then. If I didn't want to have the discussion in front of the kids, I'd definitely bring it up later.  Do you regularly just let this stuff go without discussion?  I don't think I could. 

[MomatHWTK]

Lots of the same marriage and hormone issues here.....thanks to everyone for sharing.

 

Just wondering if you can elaborate on "moods".     I am very introverted so I think my moods are not as much outwardly expressed as inwardly having dark thoughts that get on a downward

spiral that's hard to break.    For example, getting convinced I have cancer..... how awful my husband/marriage is......how trapped I feel and seeing no escape.....  hating the way I look....  and of course when I am able to see/think more clearly I can tell that I was viewing things out of proportion to reality.   Things aren't perfect for sure but there are times when I can't find one good thing or an ounce of

gratitude.   Everything is bad, bad, bad in my mind, for a time, and then I'll snap out of it.    Repeat cycle.   

 

Anyway, just wondering about that.    I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning at my next gyn appt.    I always thought they would ask questions about that to put people on mood altering meds when maybe they are getting at hormonal stuff.

So, being on mood altering meds would be worse than the constant anxiety spiral? 

[tori@thehomefront]

Have you read The Hormone Cure by Dr Sara Gottfried? My neighbor gave it to me because my post baby hair loss was that noticeable. Anyhow, it's for all hormone issues that women experience. She has a detailed questionnaire to help you figure out what hormones are going wacky. She includes scientific explanations about hormones, what they do, etc. and research on the effects of lifestyle changes, herbs, and prescription drugs on hormones. She also gives plans for correcting the hormone imbalance (from least risky lifestyle changes to prescriptions). I found it helpful. While my hair has not grown back, the fatigue, "drying up", sex drive, ability to cope has all improved from the lifestyle changes and some herbs she recommended. Too bad there's not a book for men. ;)

I bought this for kindle last night, and for the first time in many months I feel like I can see a way to begin addressing my issues. Even without yet finding a dr willing to listen to me. Even though I had been beginning to think that maybe I am just weak/crazy/unhelpable, and prozac was the answer.

 

Great book! Thanks for mentioning it!

[PrincessMommy]

I bought this for kindle last night, and for the first time in many months I feel like I can see a way to begin addressing my issues. Even without yet finding a dr willing to listen to me. Even though I had been beginning to think that maybe I am just weak/crazy/unhelpable, and prozac was the answer.

 

Great book! Thanks for mentioning it!

 

I put a hold on it from my library yesterday.  I appreciate jaderbee recommending it. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't say I view marriage the same way. There are things besides infidelity that would be a game-ender for me. Cruelty, for instance. As you said, he took vows to LOVE and be faithful. What if he is persistently unloving? What if I am? Is he stuck with me if I am a constant b@tch? What if he devastated our financial stability? What if he woke up one morning and announced he was never going to work for money again and I could either make some dough myself or apply for public services?

Oh, I agree.  When I said fidelity, I meant faithfulness in general to the marriage, not just sexual.  Some things are divorceable in my opinion, and some aren't (though I might separate).  I think there needs to be boundaries even in marriage - esp. if one person is destructive in any way.  Dh and I talked about all of these scenarios before we ever got married.  I was really scared to get married.  I had come out of a very bad DV situation with middle of the night death threats etc. and even a hint of violence would have had me out of there (and still would).  Marriage is a crapshoot.  I think it's really good if you hit the jackpot and really bad if you don't.  Hormonal fluctuations don't count though in my final tally.  We can all be jerks at times.  I do want to exhibit a certain amount of self control and expect the same from an adult husband.  I've lived with chronic pain for over twenty years.  I've learned to not subject him to my grumpiness because of it.  

 

We both try to not sweat the small stuff though.  My dh is a channel surfer.  I figure I have a choice.  I can ask him to stop, though not sweating the small stuff means that I won't bother unless it is something like Sherlock in which case I have no problem threatening him with dismemberment if he even touches the remote!   I can move to another room with a tv or a laptop.  If he complains then I would have no problem telling him that he can bring me back to the couch easily - by finding one show and sticking to it.  That kind of thing though is a transient annoyance.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Here's another little vacation vignette to illustrate a point about communicating needs not being a total solution:

 

(Keeping in mind that in no way do I consider this event a big deal of itself; just that it speaks to a disagreeable attitude I know of no way to help.). We were heading by car to a restaurant yesterday. He had his window down. The noise of the highway was irritating me. So I asked, "honey, could you wind up the window? It's so loud with it down." He said, "No. I want it down." Well, okay then.

 

In a perfect relationship, he does not want me to endure the deafening roar of cars and that infernal Blu Bunny Ice Cream Truck jingle and I don't want him to feel airless and hot. But that is not what we have, here. So in this instance, he "won" and I "lost." I'm sure there are many other moments when I "win" and he "loses." I don't know how you can look for a win-win if both parties are not attempting to find it.

You need a car with air conditioning.  Problem solved!

 

But I agree with MomatHWTK - I probably would say something though what I said and how would depend on a few things.  How far away is the restaurant, for one!  But things like that have to have a compromise, right?  And sometimes that means that one person wins.  I don't keep score on who wins what.  And I don't think that the man always has to be chivalrous and let me win.  And I don't think that the woman always has to be a doormat and let him win.  I tend to address things like that with humor though - I would probably say "OK then, but you realize that if I hear that Blu Bunny jingle one more time I might reach over and take the wheel so that I can push that truck off the road, right?!"  And dh might laugh and turn the radio up for me to drown out the noise (or put up the window and put on the a/c if that was an option).  

[DawnM]

I am reading reviews and the negative ones are speaking to me......go off all caffeine and sugar and eat mostly a clean diet.   That doesn't seem like new info.  Am I missing something?

 

And really, go off caffeine......not really sure you want me to go off caffeine.

 

Dawn

 

 

I bought this for kindle last night, and for the first time in many months I feel like I can see a way to begin addressing my issues. Even without yet finding a dr willing to listen to me. Even though I had been beginning to think that maybe I am just weak/crazy/unhelpable, and prozac was the answer.

Great book! Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Guest]

I probably would have told DH he was being a jerk right then. If I didn't want to have the discussion in front of the kids, I'd definitely bring it up later. Do you regularly just let this stuff go without discussion? I don't think I could.

A lot of things are discussed later, though this one most likely won't be, because there are bigger fish to fry. But I don't know what the answer is to stalemates. Kind of like what Dawn is saying above. There is no middle ground between being at home and not. She can only give up her own dreams (temporarily or permanently) or pursue them against his wishes.

 

Or take a car for example. Our van needs to be replaced. I'm not terribly picky about what car we get to replace the van; i just want it to meet certain needs for gas mileage, reliability, etc. so, there are two models that would fit the bill. But -oh, I'm sure you are so surprised - these two models are emphatically not acceptable to dh. So, one one hand, I don't care so much, there are any number of models that would be acceptable to me; all he needs to do is research it a bit and present me with a case to support his picks. But OTOH, I ask why must my choices be rejected out of hand? Also, he is not looking in to it. If left to him, we will have the van until I am left stranded on rt. 70 - and beyond, because that has in fact, already happened in this van.

[DawnM]

Honestly, this is what I mean.......things that didn't used to annoy me so much, now annoy me more.  

 

I could have written everything you have written........up until about 2 months ago.  At that point, I snapped.  I just decided I can't take it anymore.  I  need some help and some things need to happen.

 

I really don't think it will affect my marriage, as in, end in divorce......but I am definitely going through some changes and need some things to happen in order to maintain my sanity.  

 

Last night, he did finally hand me the remote, even though I really hadn't complained directly to him.   I had just gone on my laptop and surfed for a while.  And I guess ultimately, that particular show does benefit me.  He likes to try the recipes!  Last night was Julia Child's turkey and stuffing recipe AND some root vegetable cooking recipe.   

 

Dawn

 

Oh, I agree.  When I said fidelity, I meant faithfulness in general to the marriage, not just sexual.  Some things are divorceable in my opinion, and some aren't (though I might separate).  I think there needs to be boundaries even in marriage - esp. if one person is destructive in any way.  Dh and I talked about all of these scenarios before we ever got married.  I was really scared to get married.  I had come out of a very bad DV situation with middle of the night death threats etc. and even a hint of violence would have had me out of there (and still would).  Marriage is a crapshoot.  I think it's really good if you hit the jackpot and really bad if you don't.  Hormonal fluctuations don't count though in my final tally.  We can all be jerks at times.  I do want to exhibit a certain amount of self control and expect the same from an adult husband.  I've lived with chronic pain for over twenty years.  I've learned to not subject him to my grumpiness because of it.  

 

We both try to not sweat the small stuff though.  My dh is a channel surfer.  I figure I have a choice.  I can ask him to stop, though not sweating the small stuff means that I won't bother unless it is something like Sherlock in which case I have no problem threatening him with dismemberment if he even touches the remote!   I can move to another room with a tv or a laptop.  If he complains then I would have no problem telling him that he can bring me back to the couch easily - by finding one show and sticking to it.  That kind of thing though is a transient annoyance.  

 

[Joanne]

This is a key but something that is often missing.  People don't talk about their unhappiness so the partner may not even know something is wrong.  Some people are more sensitive than others and can see when their spouse is unhappy, or seems to be drifting, and can take steps to resolve the problem.  Some people are clueless when it comes to relationships and need to be shown or told everything.   When people are surprised by being handed divorced papers it often (usually?) means there has been a terrible lack of communication in the marriage.  (It can also means someone has not been acting in good faith with their spouse of course.)

 

My husband and I don't have a perfect marriage but I think it is pretty good. Lately we have been doing pre-marriage counseling for a few couples in our church.  It has been very interesting for us because, of course, it's making us look at ourselves and our own marriage.  The book we are using places a huge emphasis on communication which I think it appropriate.  Whatever the topic, finances, in-law relationships, sex, it always comes down to communication.  If one person isn't interested in communicating though, it is very hard for the person who wants to make things work.  

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:  to those who are struggling.

 

I'm interested, because I do a lot of marriage counseling. What book do you use?

[Jean in Newcastle]

A lot of things are discussed later, though this one most likely won't be, because there are bigger fish to fry. But I don't know what the answer is to stalemates. Kind of like what Dawn is saying above. There is no middle ground between being at home and not. She can only give up her own dreams (temporarily or permanently) or pursue them against his wishes.

 

Or take a car for example. Our van needs to be replaced. I'm not terribly picky about what car we get to replace the van; i just want it to meet certain needs for gas mileage, reliability, etc. so, there are two models that would fit the bill. But -oh, I'm sure you are so surprised - these two models are emphatically not acceptable to dh. So, one one hand, I don't care so much, there are any number of models that would be acceptable to me; all he needs to do is research it a bit and present me with a case to support his picks. But OTOH, I ask why must my choices be rejected out of hand? Also, he is not looking in to it. If left to him, we will have the van until I am left stranded on rt. 70 - and beyond, because that has in fact, already happened in this van.

But in that scenario, nothing is still black and white.  It sounds to me like you have some deal breakers and some not deal breakers (not on marriage but on if I'm going to fight or not).  So tell him the deal breakers.  "Dear, leaving the van to break down is dangerous to me and the kids.  We must have new reliable transportation within the month.   That's a deal breaker for me.  If you want to be part of the decision then you need to help me find a van that is reliable.  If it has good gas mileage, that's even better. I don't care about make, model or color if those two needs are met.  If you want to be part of the decision making process then you need to help me look.  If not, I'll find something and let you know what I've found."  

[tori@thehomefront]

I am reading reviews and the negative ones are speaking to me......go off all caffeine and sugar and eat mostly a clean diet. That doesn't seem like new info. Am I missing something?

 

And really, go off caffeine......not really sure you want me to go off caffeine.

 

Dawn

The clean eating, no caffeine, etc that she mentions as a starting point aren't new info; you're right. But she also lists (fairly comprehensively, it seems to me, as a layperson) how to determine what kind of imbalance you're likely dealing with, how the imbalances operate and affect each other, different supplements to support resolving imbalances. In the back there's a table listing normal and optimal hormone ranges. I found that very interesting, because I've been told repeatedly by GYNs that testing is useless because everyone is different, there is no acceptable average, etc.

 

It's true that there is little detail on an eating plan, other than a basic outline for a day's meals. And on the author's website, I saw a lot of signature products that she is selling. I won't be buying into all that hype, lol. But, IMHO, there is enough factual, helpful info in the book for me to feel comfortable recommending it. Don't know if that helps or not. :)

 

I admit, I'm kind of feeling "high" just from reading some validation to my own suspicions about my situation. ;)

[Guest]

You need a car with air conditioning. Problem solved!

 

But I agree with MomatHWTK - I probably would say something though what I said and how would depend on a few things. How far away is the restaurant, for one! But things like that have to have a compromise, right? And sometimes that means that one person wins. I don't keep score on who wins what. And I don't think that the man always has to be chivalrous and let me win. And I don't think that the woman always has to be a doormat and let him win. I tend to address things like that with humor though - I would probably say "OK then, but you realize that if I hear that Blu Bunny jingle one more time I might reach over and take the wheel so that I can push that truck off the road, right?!" And dh might laugh and turn the radio up for me to drown out the noise (or put up the window and put on the a/c if that was an option).

Funny you say that about the a/c, because we were in the car with a/c (we have two cars, the ac on the van is broken. See my post about needing a new car.) i even said that in my request, "...that is the entire reason I drove this car, so the windows don't need to be down." The restaurant was very nearby, which is one reason it was a small matter on the whole. We nearly walked, but had already walked a couple miles yesterday and didn't want to walk two more.

 

I have not kept score for twenty years, and i do believe that is important in marriage. But i think he does keep score. He says as much often. He said this TODAY, when I was talking about set up for photos, which we do every year for Christmas cards. He had said previously that he wants to do them in front of the ocean, which we have not done before. This is fine, I have no issue with it whatsoever, but it is more logistically complex. You know how Atlantic beaches are, I am betting. So I said to do this, it means we all need to come home from the beach, clean up, get dressed, and head back in late evening so we have a couple square inches of empty beach and not a blinding sun. Why don't we just do it during the day, he asks, so what if everyone is wet and disheveled? "Don't *I* ever get to decide how the Christmas picture should be?"

 

Whatever. I wanted it to be a nice photo. So sue me.

[Catwoman]

Yeah so then it leaves you with your friend who comes to the two of you and says his wife served him with divorce papers out of the blue.  He was incredibly stunned, so were we...  That is the point.  I guess there is no way to be sure.  Nothing except eventual death is certain...  Just really really scary....

I'm still not understanding the scary part.

 

I can understand being incredibly upset if it happens to you, but it doesn't make sense to me to worry about something happening "out of the blue," because there's nothing you can do about it.

 

If you're doing your best in a relationship and the other person still doesn't want to be with you, there's nothing you can do about it. If the person has openly stated that there are problems that need to be fixed and you don't bother trying to work things out, that's something else entirely, but if your dh suddenly informs you that he wants out of the marriage, you can bet it wasn't a sudden decision for him and that either you missed a lot of clues that something was wrong, or else he was just very good at keeping things close to the vest so you wouldn't know. (And in that case, it would often probably be because he was having an affair.)

 

Whatever the case, I don't believe in pre-emptive worry about something that will probably never happen if your marriage feels pretty solid. I worry about everything else. I don't need one more thing! :)

[Guest]

Because I'm a control freak. Because I feel like if you add 2 plus 2 you should get 4. In my head I get that is not the case in relationships. But I just cannot shake the fact that if I do a, b and c then I should definitely have a great marriage. I don't like pain and I don't like failure and try to do all that I can to erase uncertainty from my life.

Yeah, i understand that thinking. It isn't realistic, though. Sometimes you do get blindsided, even if you did everything right. I learned this lesson when my baby girl died in labor. There was no reason that should have happened. It just did and it sucks.

[Catwoman]

Yeah, i understand that thinking. It isn't realistic, though. Sometimes you do get blindsided, even if you did everything right. I learned this lesson when my baby girl died in labor. There was no reason that should have happened. It just did and it sucks.

I'm so sorry about your baby, Quill. :grouphug: