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Accommodating vs teaching Spelling for Dyslexic w/working memory issues?


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My ds is still struggling with spelling in spite of making huge strides in his reading.  We are stuck in AAS 2 because he cannot recall the way to spell a long vowel

 

He may spell bake one of 3 ways on any given day:

bake, baek, baik

 

I will say he has A HUGE working memory deficit.  I was having him read over and over the long vowel lists and both of us are extremely frustrated.  Months of working on the silent e words are not getting him anywhere.

 

I recently came across an app that would accommodate for this (Spell Better) and I'm considering dropping spelling and letting it slide.  I feel almost that the way the app is would help him develop rudimentary spelling skills over time - it's kinesthetic and has him choose a spelling (word prediction).  

 

 

I'm beginning to think it's like working memory in regards to his math - the neuropsych encouraged us to hand him a calculator.  It took almost 4 years to be willing to do it and now he's almost on grade level in math.  He still has some bumps but for the most part, he's FINaALLY progressing well in math.  

 

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this!!

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We have not done anything else exc the spelling that went along w all the reading programs! Recipe for reading, rewards, LiPS and picture me reading were his reading spines. We also used Dianne Craft phonics.

 

We followed the spelling recommendations and as soon as he wasn't reading along with the program the spelling was forgotten.

 

I'd love to hear about a program that breaks it down further. I was only aware of rule based and pattern based spelling programs. He cannot recall information long term from either so far.  (I have attempted to use AAS to do patterns. )

 

 

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Well, Barton Reading and Spelling breaks it down further.  Some approach it as memorize a rule and move on but that is the least effective way for most dyslexics to use this program.  You have to work on each lesson at the pace of the child and focus on helping them internalize the application of the rule in several different ways.  And we do a lot of review with Barton card games and Barton board games to keep reinforcing as we move forward.  Not a perfect program (not sure there is one that ticks of all boxes with no issues for a dyslexic) but it has helped tremendously here.  I have one child that definitely seems to have working memory and word retrieval issues besides dyslexia.  She has really functioned well with this program.  Teacher intense, though.

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I love AAS for my NT kids, but it would be a disaster for my dyslexic daughter. The pace is too fast, there aren't enough examples, and there simply aren't enough steps in between. Barton spelling has been fabulous for us, but Wilson would be a good fit too as they do a better job of teaching kids HOW to use spell check the right way.

 

12 is not too old to learn to spell. Get in touch with some local OG tutors and see what they have to say.

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I'm confused (which happens often when I look at all the options for our son)!

 

Im open to trying another program with him or putting him back with a tutor. However, he's done LiPS (w/a SLP) and an O-G program. 

 

How does Barton and Wilson differ from O-G and do they have a spelling specific program that I'm not finding? While he is still needing some reading remediation, his spelling falls farther and farther behind his reading. Everything we do helps his reading while doing nothing for his spelling skills. 

 

A quick  google didn't offer spelling options that would fit.

 

Barton is reading and spelling 

Wilson Just Words is accelerated 

 

Can you clarify? Are you suggesting I start over again w one of these (Barton, Wilson or an O-G tutor) -- do the reading/spelling program but focus on spelling?  Or is there a spelling program I just haven't dug deep enough to find.  As I consider that as an option, it may be worthwhile to start over again or just put him back in therapy. Truth be told I'm fatiguing doing so much at home.

 

Sorry to be confused! I'm definitely wanting options; however having done so many things w him at home and gone through so many types of therapy I'm losing hope a little :( and he's so frustrated. The biggest relief was when he finished rewards and started reading assistant because he didn't have to work w someone anymore for reading!!!  

 

Thanks so much. 

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As a mom of a dyslexic (14 year old ds) and he's reading on grade to above level and has experienced exactly what you have (once they introduced that whole silent e concept everything went downhill) and he also has slow processing issues I will tell you what I did this spring. I tried out the new Spelling U See and boy, what a change.  I did the placement test rather than go by age and boy has that been a world of difference.  He has grown so much since starting to use this and the pressure is off.  He works hard on his own to retain the lessons and he has begun to enjoy writing.  Some kids, after the reading remediation, just don't retain all those spelling and phonics rules - it just doesn't make the connections inside their brains.  They need something else.  They need more than a list of words that all follow the same pattern and rules.  This program appeals to their visual skills (they highlight the vowel combinations for example) and they see the same lesson for the week.  It has time to really solidify in their brains and make the connections.  When I think about how I spell words I visualize the words.  I'm not repeating the rules for when to use this vowel or that (except perhaps the i before e rule).  At some point once they are reading well and strong you have to move on to Plan B to help further their progress and not continue to frustrate them or yourself.

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I'm confused (which happens often when I look at all the options for our son)!

 

Im open to trying another program with him or putting him back with a tutor. However, he's done LiPS (w/a SLP) and an O-G program. 

 

How does Barton and Wilson differ from O-G and do they have a spelling specific program that I'm not finding? While he is still needing some reading remediation, his spelling falls farther and farther behind his reading. Everything we do helps his reading while doing nothing for his spelling skills. 

 

A quick  google didn't offer spelling options that would fit.

 

Barton is reading and spelling 

Wilson Just Words is accelerated 

 

Can you clarify? Are you suggesting I start over again w one of these (Barton, Wilson or an O-G tutor) -- do the reading/spelling program but focus on spelling?  Or is there a spelling program I just haven't dug deep enough to find.  As I consider that as an option, it may be worthwhile to start over again or just put him back in therapy. Truth be told I'm fatiguing doing so much at home.

 

Sorry to be confused! I'm definitely wanting options; however having done so many things w him at home and gone through so many types of therapy I'm losing hope a little :( and he's so frustrated. The biggest relief was when he finished rewards and started reading assistant because he didn't have to work w someone anymore for reading!!!  

 

Thanks so much. 

Oh, don't be sorry for being confused !  That's sort of the norm for nearly all of us here at one time or another, believe me.  Just read some of my past posts!  :)

 

Trying to teach a child that does not learn in a more mainstream way can be challenging.

 

Have you had evaluations?  There may be things going on that are tripping him up that are not readily apparent.  An eval through a neuro-psychologist, if you haven't had one yet, might give you some great answers on where to go next.  What have you had done, if anything, so far?

 

Wilson and Barton are both O-G but just like with other O-G programs they have different approaches in how lessons are done.  I have heard good things about Wilson but have not used it so cannot speak about it.  Barton is integrated, with reading and spelling being worked on together, but that has actually helped my DD so much better than teaching them separately.  DS is struggling a bit with application but he has other issues that are causing him to lag behind DD.  He has definitely still made significant progress in both reading and spelling with this program, though.  It doesn't mean that Barton will solve your issues, though.  I just know that it really turned things around here.

 

As for being burned out, I get that, too.  There have been times I have been very burned out.  Huge hugs!!!!  If you think turning over his instruction to a tutor, at least for a bit, might be better, then look into that.  Maybe you both need a break for a season or so and if you find a good one it could be a huge help.

 

 I have not had much luck with tutors, unfortunately, so I turned to Barton, since it is clearly scripted out and has DVD's for the tutor to watch.  Makes it a lot more open and go than many O-G programs.  Since your son has done LIPS and LiPS is what Susan Barton recommends doing first if a child cannot pass the student screening, then you may be ahead of the game if you chose to go with Barton.  Even if you don't want something like Barton, though, I recommend you give him the student screening since it is free and doesn't take that much time.  If he trips up on the screening then any O-G based system may be difficult.  He might need to repeat LiPS, in fact.  But at least you would have a better idea if there is something still tripping him up in that area.  You would need to take the tutor screening first, which is actually also easy to do.  Make certain you are both rested and can do this uninterrupted and without distractions.

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/tutors.html#screen

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen

 

I know others will chime in that may have a lot more experience than I do.  Hopefully, you can get some ideas that will point you both along a better path.

 

Best wishes!

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We have had evaluations w a SLP, OT, neurology, and neuropsych.  His issues are complex and the COVD (is that the right anacronym? The developmental ophthalmologist) says he's not a candidate for vision therapy.

 

he has acquired dyslexia (a neurological incident similar to a stroke has resulted in both phonological and visual dyslexia). His working memory was destroyed and he is at a 3% in that area. He has visual processing and perception disorders. He actually retained executive function which is abnormal. The neuropsych has his theories on that; I'm just grateful.  

 

here is my opinion of what is happening

*LiPS worked

O-G worked for reading only and he can visually discriminate and perceive up to 2-3 syllable words

*rewards worked to some extent but he needs another round of this or something more

*reading assistant is working but may not be enough in regards to decoding long syllable words

 

i believe his reading just needs time and effort. We did spelling alongside of reading but it wasn't sticking :(

 

spelling, however, appears to be  working memory issue!  I actually plan on discussing this at neuropsych. Because he has long term affects of chemo and may have long term effects from a severe concussion, neuropsych is an ongoing process for him.  I'm also going to discuss if a tutor at this point is wise!

 

The problem we are having is that the chemo saved his life but people are unsure what to do with him now... Haha... Typing brought some clarity. I'm wondering if I need to back up and focus on working memory again?? I am starting him a new supplement this week. A brain supplement actually amino acid based.  He's also done a ton of brain integration therapy, brain gym, vision gym, and some vision therapy. 

 

I am going to look into spelling U See!   That sounds like it may be a good fit!

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With all that you and he are dealing with, spelling focus may not be something to beat yourselves up over.  My dad never did learn how to spell well and neither did my husband but they both had/have successful careers.  Lots of ways to accomodate spelling.  Do you scribe for him?  Have you looked into Dragon Naturally Speaking. Ginger, Inspiration software?

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And huge hugs.  It sounds like you have both been through a tremendous uphill battle.  I wish you both the very best in the world.

 

 

By the way, we are in the process of training to use a Spell Checker here, since Barton introduces a spell checker in Level 4.  Some words you just may need a spell checker even if you get good at spelling.  We are using a Franklin spell checker and it also has some games on it.  I don't know if there are better ones out there since we are just using what Barton recommended but I would definitely take the pressure off with spelling and look into a spell checker and Dragon to help out with his output, if you haven't already.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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We are just starting our journey learning about dyslexia and the programs that can help, so I'm not much use with suggesting curriculum, but I have read posts from people who have decided to accommodate spelling issues instead of trying to remediate them, because the remediation just does not work for their child. I'm not saying to give up -- if I were you, I'd keep looking for something that will help him, even a little -- but I'm agreeing with OneStep that many adults succeed in life while having trouble with spelling. I'd try to find something that can help him progress a little, if possible, while avoiding being discouraged. It sounds like he has overcome so much already in life. I think I would tend to focus on his strengths and not focus overly on a weakness he may not be able to change.

 

:grouphug:

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I'm raising this boy, too, so I completely sympathize! We're starting Sequential Spelling this year (freshman) to see if it does anything magical, but otherwise I'll speak to accommodations and philosophy.

 

Buck can't spell to save his life. As a 9th grader, he's usually in the range of 4th grade spelling. Though like your son, he can spell the same word 5 different ways in the same paragraph! We make jokes about it because I want him to be confident in the fact that spelling has nothing to do with intelligence. So this has to be something that we take pretty lightly.

We also make jokes about his grandpa (my dad) because while Grandpa graduated 2nd in his law school class and went on to be one of the more respected attorneys in his half of the state for about 40 years, he can't spell, either!

(The kids' electronic Christmas presents this year included the note "battys in coset" ) Grandpa's accommodation is that he went into a profession that came with a secretary! ;)

 

Buck is learning to rely on spell check and sites like dictionary.com as well as habits like spelling things aloud when he's typing because invariably someone in ear shot will correct him when he is wrong.

 

Just yesterday, little sis the Super Speller was tormenting him and asked if he could spell "smart."

S-M-A-R-T

"You forgot the E"

 

*puzzled look*

 

"Oh! Ooops! S-M-A-R-T-E. Thought I'd miss that, huh?"

:001_huh:

 

"Wait a second...There's no E in smart!"

 

 

 

Oh son… lol

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After reading more of what you shared - has his hearing been tested by an audiologist - not just the hear the beep test but a good, full work up audiological screening.  My oldest (almost 21) went for years with an undiagnosed hearing loss and we treated everything else (dyslexia, spelling, reading, vision, memory - and now they have concluded that he is ADHD) only to find out that he was hearing impaired and it wasn't found until he was 15.  He passed all those screening tests through well visits but he was deaf from day one but no one picked up on.  Just wondering if that could be something more to the story for your ds - not that he needs another chapter.

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My son is also 12.5. I found Spelling Power relatively recently and he has been making progress with it. (It and Spelling Plus have in common that they both concentrate on most common words arranged into shorter lists in increasing levels of difficulty, but SPower does more total than SPls, and use a combination of oral, visual, and kinesthetic means to help them be remembered. SPower also, had the daily lists more arranged according to a type of word such as short a words, or other groups with a group "rule"--which does not seem to be the case for SPlus.) SPower takes 15 minutes per day and also has work on dictionary skills, games and so on as part of the program (which sometimes make it go over 15 min.)--but for the regular work it is deliberately made not to take more than 15' per day, and only a few words that are not known are worked on each day.  It starts with placement tests to put the child at a level that will neither be too hard nor too easy. I bought the main book used, and then also a new Student journal to record the day's work. You could just use paper, the Journal is set up to  be very helpful, and also has a place for the student to keep track of progress on the back cover which is motivating.

 

The other program I also considered was Sequential Spelling.

 

The app you mention also sounds interesting.

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After reading more of what you shared - has his hearing been tested by an audiologist - not just the hear the beep test but a good, full work up audiological screening.  My oldest (almost 21) went for years with an undiagnosed hearing loss and we treated everything else (dyslexia, spelling, reading, vision, memory - and now they have concluded that he is ADHD) only to find out that he was hearing impaired and it wasn't found until he was 15.  He passed all those screening tests through well visits but he was deaf from day one but no one picked up on.  Just wondering if that could be something more to the story for your ds - not that he needs another chapter.

Yes! As a part of his oncology his hearing and vision are screened regularly as after affects of chemo can include vision and hearing impairments.

 

so far, his hearing and vision have been mormal. He's 9 year post diagnosis (cancer) and 6 years post chemo. Typically impairments happen in the first 5 years post chemo so we are hopeful he's past that. He's now considered a long term cancer survivor <3 

 

and yes yes we use dragon but with his right side affected by chemo spell better works better for him. I do scribe some but with spell better we are workig at getting him independent of me. 

 

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm praying about what to do next :-)

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I will say he has A HUGE working memory deficit.  I was having him read over and over the long vowel lists and both of us are extremely frustrated.  Months of working on the silent e words are not getting him anywhere.

 

Besides reading the lists over and over (I'm assuming you mean the silent E word banks?), what other things were you doing to directly address this?

 

When my kids hit a wall like this (and did a number of times), I did a lot more tile work (and when they outgrew the tiles, we wrote on the white board). We would do demos of the type of word at the beginning of each lesson time until they got it down.

 

So, I would make a word like "bake" and have them tell me about it's spelling. Why is the silent E there? Why do we use a K? and so on. Make a few words each day (use the "more words" and the word bank words too for daily demos) until he can easily teach it back to you. Have him label it with the syllable tag and have him tell you why it is that kind of syllable.

 

If he can consistently get the word correctly with the word cards, move on, but keep an eye on this in his dictations.  If he writes "baek" in his dictation, tell him there is one spelling error, and see if he can find it. If he can't, show him the word, and ask him to look at the vowel teams for an "ae" vowel team. When he can't find one, let him know that only very advanced words use that (it's an advanced phonogram) and it doesn't stand for the long A sound when it is used. So he can rule out that choice.

 

Since he sometimes uses "ae," he may be trying to remember words visually, the way we remember phone numbers (characters in a certain order, without really thinking about how some work together as teams). That could be a holdover from previous habits that's hard for him to shake. I let my kids know that memorizing every word visually is tough--there are thousands to remember--and that using some other strategies means there are fewer that have to be visually remembered. Sometimes being very direct about HOW to learn the word helped my student clue in to why we were using a certain strategy--helped them connect it and apply it. 

 

Then ask him what rule we've learned about the most common ways to spell long A words.

 

If he uses AI, let him know you haven't come to that pattern yet, and you'll learn about it later. It's much less common than A_E is, so A_E is a good first guess. See if he can correct it, then have him label it with the syllable tag or ask him what kind of syllable it is, and have him explain why it's that type.

 

The more you can get him to teach the concept back to you, the more he'll internalize it. That's a good way to to get more mileage out of reading the lists too--don't have him just quickly read them--have him read a section but have him first tell you about those words--why are they grouped together? What do they all have in common? Let him know one of the goals is to associate the words together and to realize they are all spelled with the same pattern. Letting a student know the goal can help them pay more careful attention so that the reading is more useful. Some kids naturally get it,  but some need to be directly told that there are some goals and what they are, why they are doing the activity etc...  

 

If he no longer likes the tiles, use color-coding with white-board markers so that he has a very visual way of seeing the pattern/rule.

 

Another strategy that worked here was to review tricky words or concepts both at the beginning and ending of our lesson time. My oldest, who had the most problems said this helped solidify things for him, and it was just a short, simple thing. Make sure you aren't doing too many words at once and that you master as you go--if you try to go too quickly & have a bunch of different patterns together, it all gets jumbled in their minds. This article on the Funnel concept and student memory issues explains more. 

 

I reviewed words every day until they could spell them quickly & easily, without having to self-correct or second-guess. And, I liked to wait until a Monday before moving any cards to mastered--so they had to remember over the weekend.

 

My oldest had the most memory issues (and very low working memory), and I reviewed all mastered cards once a week for a month after he mastered them to make sure they stayed mastered. Ones that didn't went through a lot more review. 

 

HTH some! My heart goes out to you, I know it's a lot of work to help a student through all this, but he'll get there. 

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...

He may spell bake one of 3 ways on any given day:

bake, baek, baik

 

I will say he has A HUGE working memory deficit.  I was having him read over and over the long vowel lists ...

 

 

 

What exact sorts of long vowel lists are you using and how?

 

I think from what you say that you might be best off with using technology to get around this problem, but I also know that looking at word list does not help my ds at all. He needs a multi=sensory approach and plenty of repetition.

 

Is the bake, baek, baik a real example? If so, then he may be getting mixed up by having too many long a spelling choices at once. He may need to work on bake, cake, fake, etc. alone, with no other versions of long a, until he gets that pattern. There are a few exceptions to the [ ]ake words, such as ache, but in general, there are not [ ]aik or [ ]aek words. So something is getting him more mixed up than he needs to be. I would guess you need things to be more limited than you are currently doing as to how much at once you are trying to do. But very likely also need more multi-sensory than just looking at a word list.

 

Some other possible choices that I did not go with--and won't as long as Spelling Power seems to be helping:

 

http://www.highnoonbooks.com/detailHNB.tpl?action=search&cart=14058933311340208&eqskudatarq=DDD-546&eqTitledatarq=Making Spelling Sense&eqvendordatarq=ATP&bobby=[bobby]&bob=[bob]&TBL=[tbl]

 

 

and the more general 4 level program listed at the top of the other items lower on page.

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We have had evaluations w a SLP, OT, neurology, and neuropsych.  His issues are complex and the COVD (is that the right anacronym? The developmental ophthalmologist) says he's not a candidate for vision therapy.

 

he has acquired dyslexia (a neurological incident similar to a stroke has resulted in both phonological and visual dyslexia). His working memory was destroyed and he is at a 3% in that area. He has visual processing and perception disorders. He actually retained executive function which is abnormal. The neuropsych has his theories on that; I'm just grateful.  

 

here is my opinion of what is happening

*LiPS worked

O-G worked for reading only and he can visually discriminate and perceive up to 2-3 syllable words

*rewards worked to some extent but he needs another round of this or something more

*reading assistant is working but may not be enough in regards to decoding long syllable words

 

i believe his reading just needs time and effort. We did spelling alongside of reading but it wasn't sticking :(

 

spelling, however, appears to be  working memory issue!  I actually plan on discussing this at neuropsych. Because he has long term affects of chemo and may have long term effects from a severe concussion, neuropsych is an ongoing process for him.  I'm also going to discuss if a tutor at this point is wise!

 

The problem we are having is that the chemo saved his life but people are unsure what to do with him now... Haha... Typing brought some clarity. I'm wondering if I need to back up and focus on working memory again?? I am starting him a new supplement this week. A brain supplement actually amino acid based.  He's also done a ton of brain integration therapy, brain gym, vision gym, and some vision therapy. 

 

I am going to look into spelling U See!   That sounds like it may be a good fit!

 

You say, " I'm wondering if I need to back up and focus on working memory again?? "  YES! I think so!  Brain plasticity exists throughout a person's life and any measure of gain in the area of memory functioning will help your DS advance his cognitive functioning.  The brain therapy, brain gym, etc. is also fabulous for helping to rebuild synapses damaged through chemo.

 

Sounds like you've been through a lot with your little guy.  I know the medical affects on the brain can be pervasive and are challenging to overcome.  The good news is that intensive programs and therapy can help... It's awesome that you're homeschooling and love it because that will make all the difference in the world for your guy!

 

Given that memory functioning is foundational for spelling and math, I'd rank it right up there as being just as (if not more) important than the academic skills themselves. ;-)  Otherwise, sounds like other moms have already given you some fabulous ideas.  HUGS!  

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