j3mom Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hello, After spending some time reading a wonderful thread by Lewelma on evaluation of numerous writing curricula, I begin to research what we are going to do for writing with my son (fifth grade) this year. We have done WWE1 through half way into WWE4 ( he could not stomach it anymore). Then we switched to IEW Intensive A, and a third of a way done through the continuation A course. At this point I started to notice, that my son was writing only to use all the dress ups, while the actual content of his writing took a back burner. He developed a game for him self, to squeeze as many dress ups in the smallest amount of sentences possible.....Seeing this, I stopped using IEW. My son does not like to write much, but can be semi good at it, if he really applies him self (if motivated). However, he loves talking! And I can imagine him to do a lot of talking in the future, hence I think that writing would be important for him. Now to the question: I really like the look of Classical Writing, but after my research, I am understanding that it is an excellent program if the teacher is very good at writing. So I am wondering, would you agree with this as being true? English is a second language for me, and I am starting to wonder if I can swing teaching Classical Writing. If I would use all the Teacher's guide and Student's workbook along the side with the core book, would this ease the need to be a good writer for the teacher? How good of a writer does one need to be to succesfully teach this? I appreciate all input. Thanks Veronika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenslp Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I don't feel like you need to be a strong writer to use it with your child. Everything is spelled out so that there are clear steps to follow for each lesson, including editing rubrics. It requires the use of a grammar program and you can use your own or the one they recommend which is called Harvey's Grammar. I would think with using the student and instructor guides you should be fine since they provide step by step instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I found Aesop fine. Homer is going to be a big step up, and I am very grateful for having done work and bought books on writing for myself over the years. I am going to find the teacher's book and the student books very helpful I think. Just wading through the Core book on Homer is both interesting and terrifying, because there is just so much! Seriously, the thing is 300 pages plus. Can't tell you if I am going to be successful or not, but it's the one writing program I can both afford and stomach, so I am doing what I can with it. I've been hearing a lot of good things about CAP and their writing program, but I don't have any experience with it. I understand it is more open and go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thank you for your replies, I am looking at Critical Writing samples right now, and I can not imagine doing Aesop (seems to much like WWE)...so the assumption would be to start with Homer. CritterFixer, now I am terrified ;-) Is there same handholding? Do they give you samples of the student's work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The core book is really that long. Yes, there are samples! In the core book, which is great, because I didn't get to purchase either the instructor or student text this summer due to funds getting low (unforeseen kitchen mess!). The samples on CW of the books are pretty helpful too. I really think things are going to come together really well with the instructor book beside me as I re-read through Homer this summer and fall. FWIW, I LOVE the core book for Homer. I have been underlining, highlighting text and nodding along in agreement, making notes...it just makes so much sense to me. But this is also right up my alley. I write creative fiction on my own, but I would not consider myself a good writer. I just love to write, and love to read books on writing, and to admire great writing. I would say that a love of writing and language would be important for someone using the CW series. I was frightened when I got the Core in the mail-my jaw dropped, but once I started reading through it, and seeing how methodical it was in teaching story telling I was hooked. It is still going to be a lot of work on my part, though, to read and comprehend and implement it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Great! I like to hear that. Yes, I re-read all the samples of Classical Writing and for some reason I feel that that is the way to do it. I love language and good structured sentences. I think that I am just going to order it and deal with it ;-) Thank you so much, Critterfixer, I am glad to hear that there are samples as what is to be expected for the kiddos. That is very helpful. Now, how important would it be to read the next levels core books ahead of time? As to understand where the whole program is heading......Or do they give a pretty good understanding in Homer core book alone. Really appreciate the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm going to need to. I figure on buying the cores about six months ahead of time to use them so that I can get a feel for where we are going. Homer is for two years. I think I'd be overwhelmed if I tried to buy all the cores and read through them to find out where they are going in the end. One at a time is all the direction I can take at once. We will probably be starting Homer in late fall or early spring. My boys are not exactly reluctant writers, but I want to get more outlining work under their belt before they tackle heavy narrative work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thanks, that make a great sense. I should start doing some pre-studying as well. :-) Veronika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Do take a look at CAP Writing and Rhetoric. I find it very user friendly, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Popping in to encourage you with CW's Homer. Our most successful writing years have been with CW products. I just haven't stuck with it! There is a teacher learning curve. You'll need some time to sit down with all 3 books (Core, student workbook and IG) and figure out how to go back and forth between them. About 2 weeks in, we found a great rhythm to the teaching and writing. So the learning curve is a bit steep but it's short. And worth it. I think CW could have done a better job incorporating the teacher's work into one volume but the Core came first and was followed by the IG and student workbook to help flesh out the Core. love how Homer continues to add layer and dimension to the writing process. Homer, especially, teaches the student to play with language through denotation, connotation, synonyms, rearrangment, etc. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Good to know with Homer. It has been neat, but tough just having the core book. I plan on getting the IG and the SW soon, which should give me all fall to play with it and work through several lessons myself. I found myself having a lot of fun just reading through it and seeing where I could take Homer into creative fiction with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 My dd started with Aesop, moved to Homer, then Diogenes and begins Herodotus in the fall. As FloridaLisa says, there is a learning curve with Homer but once you've mastered their methods, it makes the program much more easy and very flexible. Many programs you have to stick with exactly what they have in their lessons, but with CW you can chop and change very easily to fit your student's needs. When my dd reached Diogenes, she was able to do the lessons herself with less involvement on my part. One thing that was very helpful was that in the last level of Diogenes, I bought marking through Classical Writing. The package included 5 essays that I could submit for feedback and marks, if I so desired, and the feedback was absolutely excellent; much better than I could have given and I am fairly good writer. I would recommend it at that level. So to answer your question, you I don't think you have to be a good writer, but you have to be willing to invest the time to learn how the program works. Let me know if you have any more questions, I'd be glad to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaderbee Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Good to know with Homer. It has been neat, but tough just having the core book. I plan on getting the IG and the SW soon, which should give me all fall to play with it and work through several lessons myself. I found myself having a lot of fun just reading through it and seeing where I could take Homer into creative fiction with ease. Popping in to encourage you with CW's Homer. Our most successful writing years have been with CW products. I just haven't stuck with it! There is a teacher learning curve. You'll need some time to sit down with all 3 books (Core, student workbook and IG) and figure out how to go back and forth between them. About 2 weeks in, we found a great rhythm to the teaching and writing. So the learning curve is a bit steep but it's short. And worth it. I think CW could have done a better job incorporating the teacher's work into one volume but the Core came first and was followed by the IG and student workbook to help flesh out the Core. love how Homer continues to add layer and dimension to the writing process. Homer, especially, teaches the student to play with language through denotation, connotation, synonyms, rearrangment, etc. Lisa My dd started with Aesop, moved to Homer, then Diogenes and begins Herodotus in the fall. As FloridaLisa says, there is a learning curve with Homer but once you've mastered their methods, it makes the program much more easy and very flexible. Many programs you have to stick with exactly what they have in their lessons, but with CW you can chop and change very easily to fit your student's needs. When my dd reached Diogenes, she was able to do the lessons herself with less involvement on my part. One thing that was very helpful was that in the last level of Diogenes, I bought marking through Classical Writing. The package included 5 essays that I could submit for feedback and marks, if I so desired, and the feedback was absolutely excellent; much better than I could have given and I am fairly good writer. I would recommend it at that level. So to answer your question, you I don't think you have to be a good writer, but you have to be willing to invest the time to learn how the program works. Let me know if you have any more questions, I'd be glad to help! Are any of you using the student workbooks or are you pulling together your own lessons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Are any of you using the student workbooks or are you pulling together your own lessons? I use the student workbooks simply because they make it a little easier. My dd is studying four languages (not including English) and she needs all the extra time she can get. I do, however, modify the lessons to fit my dd's writing strengths and weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I plan to use the student workbook. With Aesop, I have used the student book, and done my own thing. That was relatively easy to do. Homer looks like it would be far better for me to use the help provided by that student book before I attempt to play with it. Play with it, I shall. Narrative writing is such a fun place to introduce plotting, character development, archetypes in fiction from a creative writing standpoint, not to mention working through some literary elements in a hands-on way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Thank you everybody for chiming in. I ordered it last night, the core book, the student book and the teacher's guide. I appreciate your warning about the learning curve, so I shall be patient with my self in that regard. ;-) I am sure that I will have tons of questions then. Cleopatra, where do you sing up for the essay's marking? Not that we will need it yet, but I was thinking about that type of service and how useful it would be in the higher levels? So I am glad to know that it will be available when we get to that. Where do you find it? I am liking this program even more.....of course that may change when I will actually hold it in my hand! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's strange ……. I went on their site where they usually list their tutorials. They used to have live tutorials, then they were selling pre-recorded tutorials, as well as essay marking but I couldn't find anything except free tutorials. I finally went on their message board and they mentioned in the Herodotus thread that they have discontinued tutorials and are working on adding free tutorials. Hmmm ……. you might want to either post on the message board here: http://www.classicalwriting.com/messageboard/ and ask them if they still have essay marking packages, or contact them directly by e-mail. Please let us know if you find out anything interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathie in VA Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I used CW from Aesop thru Herodotus. I use the workbooks also. Read first thru the introduction and prep week. For the actual teaching, my suggestion is to let the workbook lead. Turn first to the lesson in the workbook, then note the pages in the core to read. Read those. Lecture/teach from those. Then turn back to the workbook pages. I tend to do some if these with my students and leave some to do on their own. FYI we also didn't always do everything in the workbooks. Use the answer key... It's is not just for grading but also to help understand the work (imho) oh and feel free to post questions on their message boards! They do answer them! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thank you Kathie, I will follow your steps. I am hoping that it will be easier to understand once I actually hold the books in my hand. I was watching the free videos on Classical Writing website and I am even more psyched to start the program. I think that it is wonderful and fits nicely with everything else we have been doing. Cleopatra, I will post a question on their forum and will update here once I hear anything back. I wanted to ask about the poetry element of this program? Are any of you doing it? The author in the free video lecture was promoting it highly. What is your experience? Do you do it at the end of the year, just like it is suggested? My understanding is that is is to be done after the Book B (second part) is finished? Veronika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've got the Poetry Core. I haven't had a chance to go through it yet, since I've been reading through Homer. So I'm interested too. I'm pretty comfortable with narrative writing, but when it comes to writing poetry, I'm not at all good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I wanted to ask about the poetry element of this program? Are any of you doing it? The author in the free video lecture was promoting it highly. What is your experience? Do you do it at the end of the year, just like it is suggested? My understanding is that is is to be done after the Book B (second part) is finished? Veronika I bought the first level of Poetry and we did some of it. Honestly, there is definitely value in it, but I found it quite technical. They really focussed on the structure of poetry, whereas my dd was more interested in delving into the meaning, at least at that age. We ended up using The Art of Poetry and she loved it. We had to wait a little longer, because it does require abstract thinking but I think I introduced it at about a grade 7 level. It was less focussed on structure but you got to dig deeper into the poetry, any background of the poet that might pertain to the poem, poetic devices, etc. In a perfect world, I would have liked to do both, but having to choose, I'd definitely choose The Art of Poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j3mom Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thanks Cleopatra. Good to know that there are other options. I will check into it. For now, I won't worry about the poetry part. Although if there are others with any poetry input, I would still like to hear more ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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