If you have used Discovering Mathematics (Singapore Math), would you please share your perspective on pacing/scheduling?

[g1234]

Over on the logic-stage board, I asked a question recently about pacing for Discovering Mathematics, since we have been finding that level 1 (level 7 in the new common core edition) is going more slowly than we expected. It seems from the responses over there that we're not the only ones to experience this. Yet we do plan to stick with DM because my daughter loves it in every way, and the harder the problems get, the happier she is. We have dabbled in several other math curricula (Dolciani, Saxon, and AoPS), and nothing speaks to her like DM does.

 

I was hoping that by posting on the high school board, I might be able to get some advice or even just perspective on how this looks as you continue to the higher levels of DM. If last year was any indication, it will be a challenge for us to finish a level each year, and close to impossible if we also use the workbook, which we started doing--and loving--late last year. Yet it doesn't seem right to fall behind, since my daughter has always been advanced at math. I don't mind her falling back to grade level (so, finishing the fourth level by the end of 10th grade), but I don't want to slow down more than that.

 

Have any of you used DM through the higher levels? I'd especially love to hear from anyone who has used it at or near grade level without the luxury of extra years to stretch it out. How did you schedule it? How did you make it work? Were you able to keep up, doing one level per year? Did you use the workbook, too? Did you do the reviews in the textbook? How did you find the time?

 

Also, if anyone has used it all the way through level 4 (level 10 in the new edition), did each level take about the same amount of time? I ask this because a friend of mine who has used NEM all the way through several times says the later books in that series go faster and the first one is the slowest by a good bit.

 

I would really appreciate hearing anything about pacing/scheduling from anyone with longer experience using this curriculum! Many thanks.

[Sarah CB]

I would take a look at the DM scope and sequence and compare it to the scope and sequence of your state.  Ds (14) finished 7A in grade 7, 7B in grade 8, and is now doing an online math 9 course through a big online school in our province.  He's getting fabulous marks (93 on his last test) in the online course and a lot of it is review after what he covered in 7A/7B of DM.  I don't think that going through DM at a slower pace will actually put you behind a regular math scope and sequence.

 

Not DM related, but close - my dd completed Singapore NEM 1 (same level as DM 7A/7B) and then did some of level 2 and a couple units in level 3 and then she wrote her math 10 provincial exam.  

[lewelma]

Isn't there a lot of geometry in DM 7 and 8. Could it count for Algebra 1 and half of Geometry?  That would gain you the 1/2 year you need.  Just a thought

[midorifamily]

We used the older version of DM (before the Core) through Level 4A and Additional Mathematics.  We didn't do 4B because it was all review; we used half of Additional Mathematics instead to cover some topics typically found in Precalculus.

 

As far as scheduling goes, we followed the yearly schedules at the beginning of Teacher's Manuals, so that she could finish the series by the end of sophomore year.  We made it work by tailoring the problem set according to her needs.  For example, if the lesson is a breeze, I only assigned hard ones in the textbook as well as a few from the workbook (which were generally more challenging than those the textbook).  If she made same kind of mistakes, I scanned over the solutions and picked similar ones to assign.  So we didn't just do all problems or even every other problems in the set.  In this way, it was fairly easy for us to save time and keep on track.  And as I remember it, that's how they taught us in Asian countries.  (By the way, the schedules have some time specifically set aside for doing chapter-end reviews.  So we did those.)

 

Although the first half (and a bit) of Additional Mathematics did cover some of Precal, I thought their treatment of trig was rather quick and maybe even superficial.  (I think my suspicion was valid because dc was placed in trig at CC.  She passed College Algebra.)  We heavily supplemented it with Foerster and Math Without Borders DVD.  So, for us, the later levels didn't go faster.  Since I wanted to make sure our dc had a rock-solid foundation before hitting Calculus, we signed her up for College Algebra and Trig course at a local community college.  I'm glad we did.  Even though most of it was a review for her, there were enough important topics that DM only brushed on but that would have cost her in transition to Calculus.  When she took Differential Calculus this spring, she did very well. 

 

For us, finishing DM sequence by the end of 10th grade worked well, because she could not only start taking her first CC class in something she was already familiar with, but also take SAT Subject Test Math Level 2 at the beginning of 11th grade.  On hindsight, if SAT Subject Test hadn't been in the equation, we could have done without supplementing with Foerster and finished the DM earlier.  She could have just started at College Algebra and Trig course at CC.  But we wanted her to try the test, and because it tested some knowledge of Precal, a little more exposure than what DM provided was necessary.

 

I hope some of this is helpful.  It's great that your dc is enjoying DM's problems as we did.  We dabbled into AoPS too, but it wasn't a good fit for her.  She needed to talk and bounce off ideas while learning new things.  She couldn't do virtual conversation with AoPS book by herself.  She needed a real person, a teacher, and DM served us in that regard.  Maybe, while you stick to the Teacher's Manual's schedules, you can satisfy your dc's thirst by sharing challenging problems form the Workbooks over weekends or holidays?  You can make it fun by treating it like a mini Math Camp.

 

Good Luck!

 

Midori

[g1234]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread.  I appreciate so much everyone's thoughts. 

 

Sarah, thank you for reminding me that DM may "count" for more than a public school scope. 

 

Ruth: I'm probably being dense here, but I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, though I'd really like to understand.  Are you thinking, like Sarah was saying, that a level of DM might count for more than a year's worth, and in that way buy us time?  Or am I not quite getting it yet?

 

Midori: You are exactly the kind of user I had hoped to find when I posted on the high school boards!!  Thank you so much for chiming in.  (And welcome--I see you're a new poster.)  I was pretty surprised not to find more people who have used DM through most or all levels.  It has been making me feel insecure about our choice...what do others know that I don't that made them drop DM?  There seem to be a lot more users at the lower levels.  The details you offer are absolutely invaluable: about picking and choosing problems, about it being useful to finish by the end of 10th grade, about supplementing, about weaknesses in Additional Math, and about how your daughter has gone on to college math and feels DM basically prepared her well.  I am copying your reply and adding it to my permanent math file!

 

May I ask you two more questions?  Which Foerster did you supplement with--was that Foerster's Alg2/Trig book, or a different one?  Also, this may be asking a lot, but would you have an easy way to share the TM schedules with me?  The new series does not have a schedule in the TM.  I asked Jenny at Singapore Math about this, and she just said to take it at whatever pace worked for us.  Which kind of makes sense, but it's so useful to have a general benchmark to shoot for, you know what I mean?  Are the schedules pages long, or would it be easy to just take a photograph of one page and mail it to me if I PM you?  Or is there some easy generalization, like, Two weeks per chapter except one week each on chapters x and y?  If this wouldn't be easy for you to do, though, I definitely don't want to put you up to a lot of work.  We'll muddle our way through just fine.

 

It sounds like we had similar experiences with AoPS.  Plus, my daughter kind of likes things short and sweet.  Just give her some examples and a few tips and let her puzzle it out.  DM is very spare in a way that she loves.

 

Thank you again, Midori and everyone else!

[Coffeemama]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread.  I appreciate so much everyone's thoughts. 

 

Sarah, thank you for reminding me that DM may "count" for more than a public school scope. 

 

Ruth: I'm probably being dense here, but I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, though I'd really like to understand.  Are you thinking, like Sarah was saying, that a level of DM might count for more than a year's worth, and in that way buy us time?  Or am I not quite getting it yet?

 

Midori: You are exactly the kind of user I had hoped to find when I posted on the high school boards!!  Thank you so much for chiming in.  (And welcome--I see you're a new poster.)  I was pretty surprised not to find more people who have used DM through most or all levels.  It has been making me feel insecure about our choice...what do others know that I don't that made them drop DM?  There seem to be a lot more users at the lower levels.  The details you offer are absolutely invaluable: about picking and choosing problems, about it being useful to finish by the end of 10th grade, about supplementing, about weaknesses in Additional Math, and about how your daughter has gone on to college math and feels DM basically prepared her well.  I am copying your reply and adding it to my permanent math file!

 

May I ask you two more questions?  Which Foerster did you supplement with--was that Foerster's Alg2/Trig book, or a different one?  Also, this may be asking a lot, but would you have an easy way to share the TM schedules with me?  The new series does not have a schedule in the TM.  I asked Jenny at Singapore Math about this, and she just said to take it at whatever pace worked for us.  Which kind of makes sense, but it's so useful to have a general benchmark to shoot for, you know what I mean?  Are the schedules pages long, or would it be easy to just take a photograph of one page and mail it to me if I PM you?  Or is there some easy generalization, like, Two weeks per chapter except one week each on chapters x and y?  If this wouldn't be easy for you to do, though, I definitely don't want to put you up to a lot of work.  We'll muddle our way through just fine.

 

It sounds like we had similar experiences with AoPS.  Plus, my daughter kind of likes things short and sweet.  Just give her some examples and a few tips and let her puzzle it out.  DM is very spare in a way that she loves.

 

Thank you again, Midori and everyone else!

My DD 13 completed 7A & 7B this year. Pacing was slow at the beginning and I was concerned we wouldn't finish, so to speed things up she only did every other problem in the first two sections (basic practice and further practice) but did all of the problems in the math at work and brain works sections. She also enjoyed the more challenging and application based problems. If she had trouble with any of the further practice ones, we had the other half to work through.

 

**Please be aware that the Singapore Math site is discontinuing their higher level math books (above 8B). I posted about it on the k-8 board a few days ago. Sorry I don't know how to link it here.

[g1234]

Oh, wow.  Thank you for the warning, Coffeemama.  Oh, no.  My kid is so in love with this curriculum.  Already it looks like the 4a text, 4b teacher's guide, and level 4 workbook/teachers wkbk are unavailable, plus additional math.  This is a bad day!  It's so funny--just weeks ago when I was ordering level 8 (level 2), I wondered if I should order everything, just in case, because it would be so horrible if we couldn't continue in DM.  But that just seemed so expensive.  Now it has happened, though.  I sure do hope I can find the missing pieces somewhere! :sad:

[MamaSprout]

It's a copyright conflict. Singaporemath.com will not continue DM 3 and 4, but for now it seems available through Rainbow Resource and CLB from Star Publishing. Rainbow confirmed they will continue to carry it as long a it's available and speculate a DMCC may eventually be available.

[g1234]

Thank you, thank you, Elladarcy.  I just got the missing pieces from RR, so we're good through level 4.  Ooh, my credit card is feeling some pain right now.  I really hope DM keeps working for us, at this rate!  But I feel so relieved.

 

Now I do have one more followup question for Midori or anyone else: Can anyone tell me more about Additional Mathematics?  I have not yet sprung for that, and I'm trying to figure out if we should, or just plan to move to a different curriculum (I'm thinking Foerster's, as my other daughter used his Alg. last year and she and I were both extremely impressed) after level 4.  Midori, it sounds like you were lukewarm about AM.  Do you think it's worth going for at this point?  Do you think we'd be just as well off skipping it and using something else after 10th grade?  Or are you supposed to complete it along with level 4 in 10th?  If so, does that double your time commitment in an already time-intensive curriculum?  Or of course anyone else with experience in higher-level DM.  I am finding it hard to get my mind around AM.

 

Oh, what a great community.  I'm still feeling woozy from all this, but I'm so grateful for the heads-up and relieved to have secured the basic pieces.

[MamaSprout]

Jenny from SingaporeMath.com filled in some more information this week about the DMCC editions:

 

Right now, Singapore Math is concentrating on K-8. Whether the publisher will wish to adapt later levels to US in the same way as Dimensions Mathematics remains to be seen. It is problematic due to the different system there, and that even DMCC is ahead of Common Core. It would be quite difficult to do a high school common core level and also be Singapore math. 2 more years might be a possibility, but additional Mathematics covers calculus as well, and does not cover logarithms until calculus, and other things.

 

And regarding what to do after various levels of Singapore (The question was regarding what to do after DMCC8.)

 

In answer to the first question, you can do a traditional US text for algebra 2 (second year algebra) or geometry (if you want proof based geometry and to cover remaining topics in geometry). Or you can buy Discovering Mathematics 3A and 3B now, and after doing that you could do a college level pre-calc (if you are not concerned about proof-based geometry approach).

 

 

HTH

[MamaSprout]

My DD 13 completed 7A & 7B this year. Pacing was slow at the beginning and I was concerned we wouldn't finish, so to speed things up she only did every other problem in the first two sections (basic practice and further practice) but did all of the problems in the math at work and brain works sections. She also enjoyed the more challenging and application based problems. If she had trouble with any of the further practice ones, we had the other half to work through.

 

**Please be aware that the Singapore Math site is discontinuing their higher level math books (above 8B). I posted about it on the k-8 board a few days ago. Sorry I don't know how to link it here.

 

Coffeemama (or anyone else whose done DMCC)-

 

Did you use the workbooks? With PM Standards we did the textbook on the whiteboard, but did the written assignments from the workbook. What if we did the same with DMCC? I have a math-strong kid who is just getting used to writing math out in a notebook, so I would like to be as efficient as possible with written assignments.

[chiguirre]

The DMCC workbook isn't like the PM workbooks, there's no space to write in it. The layout is similar to the layout of the problems in the textbook, although there are no pretty color coded pages. The first section of the workbook corresponds to the Basic Practice section, the second to Further Practice, the third to the Math Works and the fourth to Brain Works. We use the wb as review before the chapter test (I cut out the Chapter Reviews to use as tests). We do a selection of problems from sections 1 and 2, most or all of the third (there's usually more than one problem of each type) and the fourth together as a challenge that we may or may not get (they're hard for me too).

 

I bought T a quad ruled notebook for writing out the work. It's got bigger squares than the usual graph paper so you don't have to scrunch up your writing to use it. I bought it from Amazon because I couldn't find one in Target or Walmart. There's also large ruled graph paper at MUS:

 

https://www.mathusee.com/parents/parent-resources/downloads/

[MamaSprout]

I guess I didn't really ask very well. Everyone who talks about scheduling DMCC says there is too much to do all of the questions. So if the best questions are in the workbook, would it make sense to just assign those? I only have the textbook right now, and am trying to decide if I should add the workbook to my RR order.

 

DD actually does okay working in a notebook she's still very s.l.o.w., so striving for efficient assigning here. :)

Thanks!

[midorifamily]

Hi g1234 and others,

 

Sorry I'm replying late.  I don't check very regularly.  First, the Foerster we used was his Alg2/Trig book.  As for the schedule, it's what they call "Scheme of Work".  You can see the sample on Singapore's website.  It lists weeks, topic/objectives, strategies, activities, resources, and websites.  As other information wasn't really necessary for planning, I only looked at the "Week" section to figure out how many weeks to spend on each chapter.  So I'm tentatively copying that for you here.  Since I heard the Core series changed the order of some chapters, I include the chapter titles:

 

Level 1

 

Term 1

Week 1   Ch.1 Factors & Multiples: 1.1 

Week 2   1.2 to 1.4

Week 3   Ch.2 Real #s: 2.1 to 2.3

Week 4   2.4 to 2.5

Week 5   Ch. 3 Approximation & Estimation: 3.1 to 3.2

Week 6   3.3

Week 7   Ch.4 Intro to Algebra: 4.1

Week 8   4.2

Week 9   Ch. 5 Algebraic Manipulation: 5.1-5.3

Week 10 Revision/Test

 

Term 2

Week 1   5.4 to 5.5

Week 2   Ch. 6 Simple Equations in One Unknown: 6.1 to 6.2

Week 3   6.3 to 6.4

Week 4   Ch. 7 Angles and Parallel Lines: 7.1 to 7.3

Week 5   7.3 to 7.4

Week 6   Ch 8 Triangles and Polygons: 8.1 to 8.2

Week 7   8.3 to 8.4

Week 8-9   Revision/Test

 

Term 3

Week 1   Ch. 9 Ration, Rate and Speed: 9.1

Week 2   9.2 to 9.3

Week 3   Ch. 10 Percentage: 10.1 to 10.4

Week 4   Ch. 11 # Patterns: 11.1 to 11.2

Week 5   Ch. 12 Coordinates & Linear Graphs: 12.1 to 12.2

Week 6   12.3

Week 7   Ch. 13 Simple Inequalities: 13.1 to 13.2

Week 8   Ch. 14 Perimeters and Areas of Plane Figures: 14.1 to 14.2

Week 9   14.3-14.4

Week 10  Revision/Test

 

Term 4

Week 1   Ch. 15 Volume and Surface Areas of Solids: 15.1 to 15.2

Week 2   15.3 to 15.4

Week 3   Ch. 16 Data Handling: 16.1 to 16.3

Week 4   16.3 to 16.5

Week 5   Revision

Week 6-7   Exam

 

To be continued...

 

 

[midorifamily]

Level 2

 

Term 1

Week 1   Ch. 1 Proportion: 1.1

Week 2   1.2

Week 3   1.3

Week 4   Ch. 2 Expansion & Factorisation of Alg. Expressions: 2.1 to 2.2

Week 5   2.3 to 2.4

Week 6   Ch. 3 Simple Algebraic Fractions: 3.1

Week 7   3.2

Week 8   3.3

Week 9   3.4 to 3.5

Week 10 Revision/Test

 

Term 2

Week 1   Ch. 4 Congruence & Similarity: 4.1 to 4.2

week 2   4.3 to 4.4

Week 3   Ch. 5 Linear Equation in two Unknowns: 5.1 to 5.2

Week 4   5.3 to 5.4

Week 5   5.5

Week 6   Ch. 6 Quadratic Function & Equations: 6.1 to 6.2

Week 7   6.3 to 6.4

Week 8-9   Revision/Test

 

Term 3

Week 1 Ch. 7 Pythagoras' Theorem: 7.1 to 7.2

Week 2   7.3

Week 3   Ch. 8 Mensuration of Pyramids, cones and spheres: 8.1

Week 4   8.2

Week 5   8.3

Week 6   Ch. 9 Set Language & Notation: 9.1 to 9.2

Week 7   9.3

Week 8   Ch. 10 Data Analysis: 10.1 to 10.2

Week 9   10.3

 

Term 4

Week 1   10.4

Week 2   10.5

Week 3   Ch. 11 Probability: 11.1

Week 4   11.2

Week 5-7   Revision/Exam

 

To be continued...

[midorifamily]

Level 3

 

Term 1

Week 1   Ch.1 Indices: 1.1 to 1.2

Week 2   1.3

Week 3   1.4 to 1.5

Week 4   Ch.2 More about Quadratic Equations: 2.1 to 2.2

Week 5   2.3 to 2.4

Week 6   2.5 to 2.6

Week 7   Ch. 3 Linear Inequalities: 3.1 to 3.2

Week 8   3.3 to 3.4

Week 9   Ch. 4 Conditions of Congruence & Similarity: 4.1 to 4.2

Week 10   Revision/Exam/Test

 

Term 2

Week 1   4.2 to 4.3

Week 2   4.3 to 4.4

Week 3   Ch. 5 Functions & Graphs: 5.1

Week 4   5.2

Week 5   5.3

Week 6   5.4 to 5.5

Week 7-9   Revision/Exam/Test

 

Term 3

Week 1  Ch. 6 Properties of Circles: 6.1 to 6.2

Week 2  6.2 to 6.3

Week 3   6.4

Week 4   Ch. 7 Trig: 7.1

Week 5   7.2 to 7.3

Week 6   7.4 to 7.5

Week 7   Ch. 8 Applications of Trig: 8.1 to 8.2

Week 8   8.3

Week 9   Ch. 9 Coordinate Geo: 9.1 to 9.2

Week 10   Revision/Exam/Test

 

Term 4

Week 1   9.3

Week 2   Ch.10 Arc Lengths & Sector Areas: 10.1 to 10.2

week 3   10.3 to 10.4

Week 4   Ch. 11 Quartiles & Percentiles: 11.1 to 11.2

Week 5   11.2 to 11.3

Week 6-7   Revision/Exam

[midorifamily]

For now, I hope the above gets you started.  Come to think of it, I guess you didn't need Level 3 info because Singapore hasn't published Core 9 and you must have already gotten the original version for this level, which has the schedules.  Oh well… I got carried away.

 

We used the first half of Additional Mathematics (along with the chapter on log later in the book) in place of 4B.  Since we skipped 4B, we could finish everything (incl. AM) by the end of 10th grade.  According to Singapore, AM is supposed to be done in conjunction with Levels 3 and 4, but we just did it after we finished 4A.  As I remember it, on their forum there was some concern as to where exactly in 3A, 3B, or 4A books we should introduce specific chapters in AM, and I opted for an easiest way.

 

I think, if you decide to stick with DM, you probably don't want to skip Additional Mathematics, because it does contain some topics (like log) from Algebra 2.  Their sequence is very different.

 

I know…  It's a very difficult decision.  When our dc hit 10th grade, I started putting post-its on a prep book for SAT Subject Test Math Level 2, just to see what topics were not covered in DM and AM.  I remember feeling depressed when I finished.  There seemed to be so many post-its!!  I panicked.  Hence our short-lived experiment on Foerster as our main curriculum.  But it was a very different style and our dc got bored.  I really don't think we did justice to that book.  But even if it had worked, I would have had to look for a geometry curriculum now in order to pick up pieces not covered in DM Levels 1, 2 and 3.  And I absolutely loved DM's geometry problems.  So we decided to stick with DM.  As it turned out, lots of SAT Subject Test topics seemingly forgotten in DM were indeed covered (or at least brushed upon in "Extend Your Learning Cure" sections and such) in DM and Additional Mathematics.  Ironically, when we finished AM and still saw some persistent "holes", our adequate familiarity with Foerster helped filling them in.

 

It's so unfortunate that Singapore is having copyright conflicts.  Hopefully they'll get it all straightened out and start offering higher levels again.  And I hope this glitch won't make other homeschoolers shy away from their curriculum after PM.  I think their integration of Algebra and Geometry holds a special place in the math curriculum market.  So… Enjoy!

 

Midori

[g1234]

Oh, Midori, you don't even know me and you have gone to such trouble to help out.  I thank you so much for this.  I wish I could bring you a big plate of cookies!  You must have had to go get those books out of storage, and then type in all that information....please know that I am deeply grateful.  You are helping me in so many ways to bring our DM future into focus.

 

I also appreciate you sharing your stresses as well as successes with using this curriculum.  I think that's going to be me in a few years with my sticky pad and SAT prep book, stressing about what to do now.  However, I just can't see leaving a curriculum that is the only one of four she's tried that she loves, and that I'm convinced is teaching her deep and excellent math skills.  I can see the same inner conversation going on in what you describe about your use of the curriculum.  This non-sugar-coated sharing of your experience will, I think, help us go forward with our eyes as wide open as possible.

 

Again, heartfelt thanks.

[g1234]

Elladarcy,

Well, I'm not really sure about skipping the textbook problems altogether.  I've always assumed those were designed as the bread and butter of the curriculum, so I'd hesitate to ditch them completely in favor of the workbook, but then again, that could be a misplaced assumption.

 

The reason I, personally, would get the workbook is because some of the problems there are so cool, especially the more advanced ones.  My daughter is actually energized by this, though I'm not sure if my other daughter (who thrives with Foerster) would be.  So for us, even if we only did one advanced problem from the workbook each chapter, it would be worth it, and I'm not exaggerating.  (I'm talking about the problems that take two notebook pages and 45 minutes and a lot of collaborative work to solve.)  The workbook as mentioned before also offers more review if needed at different levels.  For us, it's really about how the workbook takes the textbook concepts two or three steps farther with the advanced problems.  Very cool....or very frustrating, probably, depending on the kid and his/her learning style and preferences.

 

HTH!  Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.  Would it help for me to share a few workbook problems from a certain chapter?  Right now we have DMCC 7 and 8, so I could look into either of those.  (Soon we'll have DM 3 and 4, too, and then I'd be happy to share anything I find in there.)

[chiguirre]

I guess I didn't really ask very well. Everyone who talks about scheduling DMCC says there is too much to do all of the questions. So if the best questions are in the workbook, would it make sense to just assign those? I only have the textbook right now, and am trying to decide if I should add the workbook to my RR order.

 

DD actually does okay working in a notebook she's still very s.l.o.w., so striving for efficient assigning here. :)

Thanks!

The workbook problems aren't divided by subsection of the chapter, so unless you want to put some time in deciding which to assign when, it's best as review. There aren't enough problems to completely replace the textbook problems, imho. The workbook is a very useful extra and I'd order it, but it doesn't play the same role as the wb in PM. It's more like Intensive Practice.

[MamaSprout]

Elladarcy,

Well, I'm not really sure about skipping the textbook problems altogether. I've always assumed those were designed as the bread and butter of the curriculum, so I'd hesitate to ditch them completely in favor of the workbook, but then again, that could be a misplaced assumption.

 

The reason I, personally, would get the workbook is because some of the problems there are so cool, especially the more advanced ones. My daughter is actually energized by this, though I'm not sure if my other daughter (who thrives with Foerster) would be. So for us, even if we only did one advanced problem from the workbook each chapter, it would be worth it, and I'm not exaggerating. (I'm talking about the problems that take two notebook pages and 45 minutes and a lot of collaborative work to solve.) The workbook as mentioned before also offers more review if needed at different levels. For us, it's really about how the workbook takes the textbook concepts two or three steps farther with the advanced problems. Very cool....or very frustrating, probably, depending on the kid and his/her learning style and preferences.

 

HTH! Let me know if there's anything else I can help with. Would it help for me to share a few workbook problems from a certain chapter? Right now we have DMCC 7 and 8, so I could look into either of those. (Soon we'll have DM 3 and 4, too, and then I'd be happy to share anything I find in there.)

Thanks! We aren't starting back up for a few more weeks, but I sat down last night and worked through the first chapter in the text myself, then went and looked at the CBD sample for the workbook. I see better how it all hangs together.

 

You're right. My dd will find the "good stuff" in the workbook. Now how to schedule it? I may just have to order it and throw it in the Friday "logic and problem solving" pile. We're more than halfway through most of those books, anyhow. Or maybe do it instead of Alcumus, although I like having AoPS as a backup option for after 8b...

 

Thank-you!

[JadeOrchidSong]

Is the TM very useful and essential?

[g1234]

The Teaching Notes and Solutions book is indispensable for us, but if someone was really confident in their ability to solve all the problems and answer all their kid's questions, it wouldn't be necessary.  The Teaching Notes section is extremely short and almost nonexistent and I never, never use it.  The Fully Worked Solutions section is awesome.  It has solutions to everything--class activities, discussion questions, extend your learning curve, try it, and all the homework problems.  And not just solutions, but, as it says, fully worked solutions--they show you step by step how it's solved.  Every once in a while they make a logical leap that I have to scratch my head over for a few minutes, but more often they have more steps than I would need.  So that's really nice.

 

I was in advanced math through high school and am not math-phobic, but I didn't continue in math when I was in college and since I've been out of high school for.....oh, a few years :tongue_smilie: .....I'm sometimes a little rusty.  Plus, some of those problems get kind of sneaky.  I could do most of them myself with no trouble, but some of the harder ones would take me a little bit, and that's time my daughter is sitting there waiting for me to get a clue so I can answer her question.  It's so much quicker and less stressful for me to cheat by opening up the solutions book, seeing how to solve it, and then quickly answer her question.

 

Here are two specific examples, chosen mostly at random but also because they don't have any graphics I would need to reproduce:

 

DMCC 7B, Further Practice Ch. 14.1, #2a: On a scale drawing, 100 ft. is represented by 3 in.  Find the scale of the drawing in the form 1:n.

 

The solution provided:

Scale of the drawing = 3 in.:100 ft = 3 in.:100x12 in. = 3:1,200 = 1:400.  [They formatted it more nicely, lining up the equal signs with each step on a new line.]

 

So you can see they don't just give you the answer, but also provide intermediate steps.  However, they don't show everything--you need to realize that in the last step they divided both sides of the proportion by 3, since they don't show this.  But that kind of thing is usually pretty obvious if you have a basic knowledge of math.

 

The second problem is of a different, more logic-oriented sort:

DMCC 7B, Brainworks Ch. 14.4, #17: If 12 workers take 100 days to build a house, is it true that 1,200 workers will take one day to build the house?  Explain briefly.

 

The solution provided:

It is very unlikely that 1200 workers can build the house in one day.  As the skills of the workers and the rate at which they work are different, the number of days taken to build the house is NOT inversely proportional to the number of workers.

 

HTH!

 

[MamaSprout]

Is the TM very useful and essential?

What g1234 said plus the questions are there, which is handy, although the student pages are not replicated.

 

Working through the first chapter last night I had a question where I wasn't sure what they were asking. With a quick glance at the teaching notes I realized it was a LCMS or GCF question (I don't exactly remember now).

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thank you, g1234. I don't think I can save money on TM. Excellent solutions!

[Coffeemama]

Coffeemama (or anyone else whose done DMCC)-

 

Did you use the workbooks? With PM Standards we did the textbook on the whiteboard, but did the written assignments from the workbook. What if we did the same with DMCC? I have a math-strong kid who is just getting used to writing math out in a notebook, so I would like to be as efficient as possible with written assignments.

Sorry I'm late to reply...

We did not use the workbook. The way we used the program was to read through the lesson and examples together and work through the Try-its side by side to make sure there was understanding, then my DD would work through the problems on her own (recording in a notebook) every other problem for the basic sections and all of the advanced problems. As we did for all of the Primary Mathematics levels, we used the end of chapter reviews as tests. She scored well on these, so I'm figuring this plan is working.

Hope that helps! 

[JadeOrchidSong]

Coffeemama, do you use the TM?

[midorifamily]

g1234, you are very welcome. :001_smile:   I've learned so much from the board, and this is a small way in which I might give back to the wonderful people here.  If you want more info than just the number of weeks for Level 2, please let me know. I'll see what I can do.

 

On a side note, I hope my experience with higher levels didn't discourage other homeschoolers from using them.  They were just fine.  If our dc were only going to take regular SAT, I don't think supplementing with Foerster was necessary.  My point was that if you want it to qualify for Precal, then you'd probably need a bit more than DM and AM offer.

 

Anyway, thank you for your kind words. :grouphug:

 

Midori

[Coffeemama]

Coffeemama, do you use the TM?

Yes, I often need to see the worked out solutions since I haven't worked with higher level math in many moons...

[MamaSprout]

Because it looks like "buying ahead" is the safest plan, I thought I would put this schedule together for comment, and to make sure I don't have any holes.

 

DM 7

 

DM 8

 

DM 3 + a couple of chapters from Chaukrin Geometry or other text to cover proofs- (we have a copy of Chaukrin, and I can see this kiddo doing SAT subject tests for math.)

 

Pre-Calc with Trig (Foerster and Derek Owens are both set up to cover both. We already have the Foerster Pre-Calc with Trig book.)

 

-or- take a College Algebra, then Trig class as early college classes.

 

Would this work?

 

Thanks!
 

 

[Guest ufmba97]

We are just finishing up DMCC 8B and realized that there is no 9A (!) So we're trying to figure out what the plan for the next year is going to be. We've used Singapore Math since the beginning and all of my sons ("rising" 9th grader, 7th grader, and 4th grader) have done very well with it. My 7th grader is working at the same level as his older brother.

 

For 7A through 8B we've basically followed this schedule: For the textbook we work through the Try Its in the textbook and I assign a selection of the textbook problems (for instance in a computation problem with a) through g) problems I would probably pick only 2 and often one with just numbers, one with variables.) I look through the problems over the whole section and choose a good variety so we get all "flavors" of the topic, but never more than half. These problems just take a long time for the students to work through. Most chapters seem to be laid out such that you can finish through the review the first week.

 

The next week we work through the workbook chapter. We tend to do one section per day (Monday: Basic, Tuesday: Further, etc.) A longer section would get spread over 2 days. Again where there are problems like 10 a) through g) I'll pick two to do. We often do the enrichment together. I always have my kids come get me to work through a problem if they are stuck. 

 

I have not purchased the solutions manuals for any of the books yet and only occasionally get stuck on a problem. There is an online forum that can help you if you can't work through it. There are also some mistakes in the answers in the back of the textbook and workbook. The website has a link for errata but not all seem to have been caught yet.

 

Singapore Math is challenging but I feel like they are really learning how to think about math with it.

 

I'm having a minor panic attack at the moment over the discontinuation past 8B and will probably just purchase the "old" materials for 3 and 4 (maybe not 4B from what was said above?) that are out there so we can continue on.  I also hadn't considered that the texts would not cover enough information to score well on the SAT subjects test for math so I'll be digging through the forums I guess to figure out how to fill in the gaps. Thanks to Adorifamily for pointing that out.

 

[g1234]

That's what Singaporemath.com suggests--go on to levels 3 and 4. They have made assurances that this works fine. I think you just skip a chapter or two that were covered in 7 and 8.

[MamaSprout]

Because it looks like "buying ahead" is the safest plan, I thought I would put this schedule together for comment, and to make sure I don't have any holes.

 

DM 7

 

DM 8

 

DM 3 + a couple of chapters from Chaukrin Geometry or other text to cover proofs- (we have a copy of Chaukrin, and I can see this kiddo doing SAT subject tests for math.)

 

Pre-Calc with Trig (Foerster and Derek Owens are both set up to cover both. We already have the Foerster Pre-Calc with Trig book.)

 

-or- take a College Algebra, then Trig class as early college classes.

 

Would this work?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Similar question at Singapore Math forum :o)

 

 

 

Jenny from Singapore Math:

3A and 3B is not a complete algebra 2, depending on what is considered algebra 2, as it does not have enough trigonometry. But you can do directly to a pre-calc/trig US book because US books have so much repetition. They always reteach a lot.

I also compared my copy of Foerster PreCalc with Trig with the TOC for DM 4A. I think we'll probably do 4A, as well. I don't see much repetition between the two, unless I'm overlooking something based on a British term vs. an American one.

 

I have read that there is significant repetition of Trig topics between Foerster Alg II and Foerster PreCalc with Trig.

 

Hope this helps someone.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Can you do the old 1A through 4B without the workbooks?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I checked rainbow resource and couldn't find Discovering Mathematics 1 workbook or 2 workbook. They carry workbook teachers edition. There are workbooks for 3 and 4. So can I do 1 and 2 with only the student textbook and TM without workbooks? I feel so confused. Please help!

[MamaSprout]

I checked rainbow resource and couldn't find Discovering Mathematics 1 workbook or 2 workbook. They carry workbook teachers edition. There are workbooks for 3 and 4. So can I do 1 and 2 with only the student textbook and TM without workbooks? I feel so confused. Please help!

I don't know. I do know that it's not nessesary to use the old 1&2 to be able to do the old 3&4. You can use the 7&8 if you don't already have parts of 1&2.

[g1234]

I don't know. I do know that it's not nessesary to use the old 1&2 to be able to do the old 3&4. You can use the 7&8 if you don't already have parts of 1&2.

 

I agree.  We used 7 and are about to use 8, and then will switch to 3 and 4.  Jenny at Sinaporemath was confident this works fine.  I think they made it what way on purpose, not being sure if or when they'd do 9 and 10.  I think maybe you get to skip one chapter in level 3, or something like that.

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

I just bought 2A 2B TMs and student textbooks. Now where can I find workbook 2?

If I can't find it, can I sub with DMCC 8 workbooks?

[Candid]

I rarely visit this forum so I am late AND my information is a little sideways. That's because my oldest is going to be a senior this year. 

 

We got started a year early because we were ready way back when to do the Primary 1A program when my oldest turned 6 which was late September. He was still in K. This means we got started on the upper level books a year early. We also used the old dinosaur NEM. Based on everything I've read over the years, NEM follows approximately the same course of materials but may be a tiny bit harder. It did not come with any teaching guides and solution sets were only available for the first two books. By the time we reached 4, its Additional Maths was out of print so we switched to DM for that.

 

My general experience was that NEM 1 was the hardest pace and we did lag a bit on that but did finish by the end of June over a regular school year that usually begins the first of September. Two went much quicker and 3A, 3B, and 4A could be done in one year. Then we closed out with Additional Maths (Singapore used to have College Maths but they were long gone by the time we got to the end of 8th grade.) 

 

So I do think you can do each year of DM in a year, but I also think the first year was big and tough. 

 

We moved from Additional Maths to Pre-Calculus with Art of Problem Solving. We had no problems transitioning to that.

 

However, looking back I wish we had done the Probability and Number Counting book first. I'm now in a bit of a pickle with a bright but not math oriented child and his last year. He has ruled out taking a college class because he rightly wants to focus on his strengths. I think he'd suprise himself and do well, but I agree with his reasoning. Plus he has multiple extra-curricular commitments making fitting in a class difficult unless by computer. BUT I don't want to do an 800 page Stat text which as a former stat person I think is ridiculous for the first level of stat. I wish I still had my first stat book, we'd use that. Sigh. 

 

So my other recommendation is that Singapore math can put a child a bit ahead so do think out your choices and be aware that high school students tend to pick up stuff in which they are involved.

 

Edited to add: I always suggest posting over on the Singapore board. It is slow moving, but Jenny will usually answer questions like this. 

[JadeOrchidSong]

Candid, does it mean my soon to be 12 year old will be fine starting DM 1?