Issues with Time Tests (Using Saxon 2)

[CAmomof4]

My 7yo DD is halfway through Saxon 2, and we are having real difficulty with her time tests.  So far they only consist of either all the addition facts, or the subtraction of number minus itself, minus one, or minus zero, or some combination.  So, Saxon gives them 25 facts to do, and you're supposed to time them for one minute.  The student is supposed to complete at least 15 correctly.

 

DD finishes maybe four, possibly five facts in the minute.  She is SO distracted, even in an empty room with no siblings, noise, etc.  She looks at the problem, then her eyes wander around the room for a good minute before she writes an answer.  She always gets the right answer, but she is so slow it's painful.  After the test is over, I tell her to finish writing the answers on the ones she didn't get to, and it takes 20 minutes.  When we do flashcards she is equally slow.  We have been "practicing" with these time tests for over a year now, and she hasn't improved her speed.

 

She otherwise does well with math, but I am wondering if I should be concerned with the difficulty in recalling basic facts.  I don't know if it will make things very hard as we move on to other concepts, perhaps I should spend time JUST doing addition/subtraction facts over and over until she picks it up, or if you have found that being slow is ok as long as she is still understanding the material?

 

If you do recommend remedial work, can anyone recommend something that has worked for them?

 

Thanks Hive!

[Starr]

In our house its a distraction, slow processing speed  issue. I wouldn't time her and I would only put a few problems on a page at a time. Go over them together and *fix* the problem so your bridge doesn't fall down. I wouldn't worry about speed at 7. Play some math games , get some math fact cds to interesting music, and don't be wedded to all of Saxon.

 

And don't ask how many hours I've sat next to dc to keep focus on math.   :grouphug:

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

My son deals with the EXACT same issue.  It was a problem in school, and it's still a problem.  For one thing, I do not time him.  SWB even talks about the "timed" factor hampering certain students in Saxon and to revise, if necessary.  But when it comes to math facts, it is so painfully slow even though he will do fine on the worksheets and test.  Something about seeing all those rows just makes him glaze over, and I have to constantly stand over him.  Soon, it will be 100 fact sheets, and they want them to do it in under 4 minutes, which I personally find a little ridiculous anyways.  Sometimes, I will set the timer for 10 minutes to see if he can beat his "record."  Even then, it's hit and miss.  Like your daughter, he is 100% accurate, just slow.  I know he can be faster too because when I stand over him and point to each one, he does it much more quickly.  I try to give him shortcuts, but sometimes it makes it worse.  He knows about switch around facts, for example, so halfway down the page, he will spend his time looking for a switch around before he just tries to think of the answer.  (Sometimes, he works harder to not work hard than he would to just do it...in many things, not just math.)  Drives me bonkers.  I wish I could give you all the answers, but I completely sympathize.  

 

My son reads very well and ignores everything around him.  However, he gets very distracted on certain things and has since he was little.  

 

Since we were working a year above grade level (Level 3 in 2nd grade), I slowed things down considerably this year and worked with him a little more on getting his facts down, especially since we are starting multiplication.  We've gotten through half of the book, and I intend to do the other half this year with Life of Fred as a supplement to help him enjoy math and somewhat as a reward for hard work.  I don't want to speed through to long division if we can't recall 8+5.  He often gets bogged down by tricks too because he uses them for every single problem before he thinks about the answer.  

 

He really likes the wrap-ups.  Those have helped.  Also, he was getting bogged down in some of the skip counting, and skip counting songs REALLY helped him go from tears to recalling 7x7 fairly quickly.  (He does have to sing the song some though.)  I am more concerned with accuracy over speed, but we need to move a bit quicker.  I plan to do lots of drill and math games this year.  Donna Young has a math bingo printable.  Pinterest also has lots of ideas.  I don't want to hold him too far back because he understands advanced math concepts very well.  I think speed will pick up with more consistent practice.

 

Maybe do every other Fact sheet orally, or create an incentive that if she completes x problems in a certain time, she could do the next day's fact sheet orally.  Writing is what is demotivating to my son, but I don't know what motivates your daughter.

 

I think I have offered enough rambling suggestions.  I'd love to hear what others have to say.  This is the weakest area of our homeschool.  You are definitely not alone in this frustration.

[kiana]

This might be crazy, but have you considered cutting the fact sheets into strips with a max of 5 problems per strip?

 

Maybe plowing through strips with fewer problems per strip would be less distracting.

[Murrayshire]

I rarely ever time my ds b/c the mere thought of it makes him sooooo wiggly and all he'll do is stare at the clock and groan! Geez! I usually will fold the paper in half...... If I feel he is getting distracted, I will say the problem out loud and that makes him jot it down quickly! Some dc just need coaching and there is nothing wrong with that!!

 

You could just as easily do them orally and for however many he gets right..... Reward him with something special!

 

Mine like to play math games on the iPad as a break midday or at night...... I wouldn't follow Saxon to the "T".....if something isn't working, tweak till it does! That should be my motto!

[SilverMoon]

I'd throw the timer away. Some kids just can't handle the pressure.

[Doodlebug]

I agree with getting rid of the timed element for now.  Let her work the problems at her own speed.  I gave my son the fact sheet, and gave him about 10 minutes to work on it before I moved on to the next school thing.  If it was finished, he didn't have to come back to it.  If it wasn't, he finished it up after other subjects were finished.  Eventually, he was getting that sheet done in the 10-12 minutes so he wouldn't have to come back to it.  From there, I did reintroduce the timer... but from the perspective of personal best.  We kept a running list of times to beat.  A lot less pressure since he was the one setting the bar.

 

I did find it helpful to do an occasional drill in which I wrote the answers. I know my kid is a spazz that dislikes handwriting.  But when I really just need to know if he knows his facts, I sit next to him (helps him focus) and remove the loathsome writing element.  It generally never fails to give me surprisingly inspiring view of his real knowledge of the facts.  

 

Finally, those 100 fact drills you eventually get to -- I did as someone earlier suggested... I cut them into strips initially.  And I eventually began dictating those sheets entirely.  Too much for my guy at that age.  

 

Stella

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My 7yo DD is halfway through Saxon 2, and we are having real difficulty with her time tests.  So far they only consist of either all the addition facts, or the subtraction of number minus itself, minus one, or minus zero, or some combination.  So, Saxon gives them 25 facts to do, and you're supposed to time them for one minute.  The student is supposed to complete at least 15 correctly.

 

DD finishes maybe four, possibly five facts in the minute.  She is SO distracted, even in an empty room with no siblings, noise, etc.  She looks at the problem, then her eyes wander around the room for a good minute before she writes an answer.  She always gets the right answer, but she is so slow it's painful.  After the test is over, I tell her to finish writing the answers on the ones she didn't get to, and it takes 20 minutes.  When we do flashcards she is equally slow.  We have been "practicing" with these time tests for over a year now, and she hasn't improved her speed.

 

She otherwise does well with math, but I am wondering if I should be concerned with the difficulty in recalling basic facts.  I don't know if it will make things very hard as we move on to other concepts, perhaps I should spend time JUST doing addition/subtraction facts over and over until she picks it up, or if you have found that being slow is ok as long as she is still understanding the material?

 

If you do recommend remedial work, can anyone recommend something that has worked for them?

 

Thanks Hive!

 

I think this isn't uncommon developmentally.  It's possible that the pressure of having a time limit is overwhelming her.

 

It is also possible that she hasn't yet made the transition from the concrete manipulations to a page of facts.

 

How does she do on the worksheets?  Do these also take a lot of time? Does she read them on her own or do you have to read them to her?

 

Try having her work out each problem on the sheet out loud, with a handful of manipulatives.  You don't have to be limited to just what is in an official Saxon manipulative set.  We used Matchbox cars, Playmobil figures, stuffed animals, shoes, whatever. 

 

Instead of giving her a time limit, time how long it takes to do the sheet.  Record the time and track her improvement.

 

Try doing the same sheet yourself as she does hers.  Not as a race, but as a check to keep her on track. 

 

Converse while she's doing the sheet.  So what does the first problem say? <answer> Yes, so what is 2 plus 3 more?

 

I wouldn't just do away with the time restriction.  But I would focus on seeing if there is a conceptual misunderstanding, or another problem under the long time for doing the sheet.

 

FWIW, my kids have often needed me present during a math assignment.  This isn't often an area where I can just hand them a worksheet and then walk away.

 

[ZeldaRules]

I took a free online class last semester taught by a Stanford Math professor that talked about Teaching Maths to students.  One of the things she said is that timed tests are bad for kids.  It causes unneeded stress and can cause a child to hate math, and you don't ever want to do anything that can discourage them from liking a subject.

 

I used to give my son timed test on an online site, and he hated the timed part.  He did better on the untimed part.  There are some battles that aren't worth fighting.  :)

Vicki

[wapiti]

I would quit timing altogether.