Help me with character for special needs?

[Student Mommie]

I have noticed a correlation between non-neurotypical and "bad character".  (I've also noticed there seems to be an unusually high prevalence of extremely good character in the non-neurotypical population, too.  But my concern today is about the negative side.  (The two people I've known in my entire life I would trust the most to stick to their morals and never harm another person both may have Aspergers or something similar.))

 

But it really bugs me that all the stuff that is traditionally considered "good character" is pretty much the opposite of a lot of the non-neurotypical population's brain tendencies.  Sure seems like an unfair handicap.  If you look at the definition of many diagnoses, it's like a list of stuff that is often considered a difficult or even bad personality.  And on top of that, often they also have a tendency to a negative, pessimistic worldview, or to be extremely "fragile" emotionally.

 

Yet some special needs folks get beyond it.  I don't mean they just harness their strengths which are naturally positive character type strengths but still have difficult personalities-- I mean some actually manage to have no-question-about-it amazingly good character.

 

How do people do it?  When someone's brain is built to be totally inflexible, for instance, or hyperfocusing, combined with a lack of actual ability to experience empathy in their bodies (but instead must intellectualize empathy)-- how can they go beyond that strong tendency in order to be kind and considerate instead?  Is it just through lots of practice and baby steps, so it all ends up being done using "ineffecient" brain pathways-- or has anyone figured a way to leap over the hurdles through grace?  I really want to believe in full-on free will, but after seeing how severely non-chosen "brain type" can impact people's lives, I really don't know any more...

 

[Lecka]

The idea that people with autism cannot feel empathy is pretty controversial and it is not something that a lot of people think is true.  I am one who does not think it is true.

 

I think that it can "appear" this way, because maybe they are not picking up on social signals, or maybe do not quite know what to do to show the empathy they feel. 

 

I am subscribed to "Diary of a Mom" on facebook, she talks a lot about things like this.  Her daughter is about 11 and she has a lot of challenges, she can appear to be misbehaving, etc.  But, she also does sweet and thoughtful things.  I think it is a great blog, I love reading it.  

 

I also believe that effort counts for a lot.  I mean, that maybe one person has a very easy time behaving in a way that will have an appearance of socially acceptable behavior.  Another person may have an extremely difficult time in showing that same outward appearance.  But I believe God knows what is on the inside, and I believe God knows what struggles each person has and what they have to overcome.  

 

I don't think God is going by "who has the most well-behaved appearance."  

 

I do not have to think about "what will the random person at the grocery store think," if I know my son is doing the best he is capable of.  If he is not doing the best he is capable of, then I need to address it.  In fact I can be more worried about him if he is staring blankly, even if that is not "bothering anyone," than if he is being a little bit noticable by talking a little bit loud, or being a little bit enthusiastic, but he is doing the best he can, and I think it is part of a path to having even better behavior in the grocery store.  

 

But really I think that sometimes you need to not think about appearances and do think about what is going on inside.  

 

As far as ways to encourage flexible thinking, social skills, and thinks like that, there are programs out there.  There are recommendations.  It may not be the challenge that some people have, but it is not a "worse" challenge just b/c it is one challenging to this area, I think.  

 

I did this Bible study a couple of years ago:  http://www.amazon.com/Respectable-Sins-Confronting-We-Tolerate/dp/1600061400/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405353145&sr=8-1&keywords=acceptable+sins  It is about how some sins that are more socially acceptable today in 2014 in our churches and society, are not more acceptable to God, than other sins that are socially unacceptable and unacceptable in churches today.  Or that is what I remember!  I think one of the main things for me was talking about gossip and how pernicious gossip can be, but it is often not recognized as gossip.  

 

So -- I think a different perspective does matter.  

 

But then as far as trying to teach skills -- look into autism programs, I guess.  Look into Social Thinking.  Try to educate about different perspectives people have and things like that.  

 

I do also believe that God's grace covers all.  

 

I also think ------ that I don't quite see how this would come into free will.  I think people do still have free will.  It may be slightly different than another person's free will, but I think that is part of just being born in one place or another, or having a different upbringing.  I think someone can have a difference that way, but still have free will.  I don't think it is the same as not having free will.  But -- I may not know exactly what you mean by free will.   

 

I have a Temple Grandin book where she talks about some ways to make religion more concrete and how to give more concrete examples, I will see if I can find it.  

[kbutton]

I am struggling with this issue right now. There is often going to be a gap between what a person is capable of vs. what a person has learned, and this gap is more readily apparent in folks who are not neuro-typical. Add to that the fact that therapies are in flux, constantly being refined, etc., and it makes things more complicated. My son has Asperger's, so this is really important thing to me. **ETA: therapies that are available to our kids were not available when we or other generations were dealing with this stuff.

 

To bring this home, my MIL is not neuro-typical. I suspect she has NVLD and probably is on the spectrum in addition to that. **ETA: she has not been diagnosed, but her whole family has a list of various diagnosis, and she openly brags/snidely remarks about how she probably ought to have one too, but it's too late to learn anything new.** Apparently her mother was a lot like this as well. My MIL is very irritating in many ways, and her behavior borders on narcissistic. I feel bad for her. Her family has always dealt with things in the most practical way possible (ignore, work around her and hope she doesn't notice that people did exactly the opposite of what she wanted, etc.), and I just can't. If she says something utterly ridiculous at dinner, they ignore her. I always thought this was rude, so I would try to speak logically with her. That was a mistake. Well, now, she won't tolerate being ignored by me, and more than a decade of having to deal with her has made it clear that she and I are like oil and water. I am left with no good options. Meanwhile, the family that has enabled the behavior doesn't do anything to help, and she thinks I'm mean. I literally cannot even make eye contact with her lest she engage my in some totally meaningless, tedious, pedantic, and frustrating conversation. It's partly personality; I'll grant that. My SIL (the other DIL, not MIL's daughter) is very similar in personality to me. My MIL treats her the same way, and this SIL literally responds exactly like I do (sometimes word for word what I said in the same situation), and we've never spent much time together for her to be following my pattern of behavior. But, my SIL lives 2500 miles away and sees my MIL once every other year, so she can laugh it off.

 

My MIL sees that everyone gets mad at her, but she doesn't see why or think it's her fault. She doesn't get social cues, but even if someone tells her what they mean, she responds with disdain or other negative reactions. The last time I was at her house (late spring), she learned for the FIRST TIME that rolling your eyes has a negative connotation unless someone is telling a joke. She thought that was the stupidest thing she's ever heard. If we are lucky, she'll stop rolling her eyes, and she won't mention it again. However, if it follows the pattern of previous discussions like this one, she'll made snide, derogatory comments about how it makes no sense, and she'll go out of her way to make it sound like the world is out to get her by making this stupid and ridiculous rule about eye rolling. She'll comment aloud over and over, "I would normally roll my eyes at a moment like this, but apparently, I'm not allowed to do that anymore" (with lots of disdain, provocative body language and voice, etc., hoping for some kind of reaction. At what point does my MIL's behavior cross over from a deficit/brain difference to outright sin? I don't know, and I literally have a spiritual crisis every time I am with her. And the more I try to treat her like a valid person, the more she does rude things and then tries to engage me. It's really awful.

 

If she were just odd, that would be one thing, but she's provocative. And she makes most things terribly unpleasant. I was listening to a broadcast on Bright Not Broken, and the hosts were interviewing the Social Thinking woman. She was talking about kids who are stuck in between being socially typical and kids who do well with memorizing social rules. These kids get openly hostile because they function well enough that they need to make judgment calls, but their judgment is not neuro-typical, and the memorized rules fall short of working in enough situations. I think my son is in this category (and at an age that it shows up). I think my MIL is stuck there. I really, really want to help my son with this because if he's like my MIL, it won't be pretty. **ETA: I need to listen to the podcast again, but the interview suggested some ways to help these kids learn--they just need someone to meet them at the right place.

 

[Guest]

.

[SandyKC]

I don't know of a way to leap over the social skills issues, but I've found that "Teaching Your Child the Language of Social Success" helps parents (including myself) with directly teaching social skills to kids whose social skills are not developing in a desirable way.  It's probably not a solution that would work for every kid, but so far.. the moms I've known who have used the book found that the methods helped their child.   Teaching a child the social skills isn't easy because it requires that a mom become a virtual helicopter for her child's social interactions and that she intercede and TEACH at those prime teachable moments.  With peers, it works well for very close friends, but I found it was difficult and "odd" to neuro-typical acquaintances who seemed to think both the child's behavior and the teaching was odd.  It's a tricky issue to deal with!

[kbutton]

I don't know of a way to leap over the social skills issues, but I've found that "Teaching Your Child the Language of Social Success" helps parents (including myself) with directly teaching social skills to kids whose social skills are not developing in a desirable way.  It's probably not a solution that would work for every kid, but so far.. the moms I've known who have used the book found that the methods helped their child.   Teaching a child the social skills isn't easy because it requires that a mom become a virtual helicopter for her child's social interactions and that she intercede and TEACH at those prime teachable moments.  With peers, it works well for very close friends, but I found it was difficult and "odd" to neuro-typical acquaintances who seemed to think both the child's behavior and the teaching was odd.  It's a tricky issue to deal with!

 

Thanks for the book recommendation.

[Student Mommie]

Thanks, all!

 

I would like to clarify-- when I say "non-neurotypical", I do not mean "autistic"-- I mean special needs.  I mean all the non-neurotypical types such as anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, dyslexia, autism, etc.  I think the usage of the word to just mean non-autistic is dated.  As for autism, I have read about different theories of "disregulated empathy" etc, I'm not referring to autists in particular.  

[merry gardens]

Thanks, all!

 

I would like to clarify-- when I say "non-neurotypical", I do not mean "autistic"-- I mean special needs.  I mean all the non-neurotypical types such as anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, dyslexia, autism, etc.  I think the usage of the word to just mean non-autistic is dated.  As for autism, I have read about different theories of "disregulated empathy" etc, I'm not referring to autists in particular.  

 

I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about special needs.  I have a child with dyslexia (and probably ADHD), another with auditory processing problems and a BIL with high functioning autism (among other things--he's been given many dx, but that seems most accurate.) 

 

I'm Catholic.  Knowing what I now know about dyslexia and other special needs, when I read the lives of the Saints, I sometimes find information that stands out to me as "Hmm, this person may have had _____.) St. John Vianney and Saint Bernadette are a couple of examples that stand out. St. John Vianney was a Catholic priest who struggled greatly with academics. He almost didn't become a priest because he struggled so much with Latin--yet he is now the patron saint of priests.  I suspect he had dyslexia. Another that come to mind is St. Bernandette.  She was a French peasant girl who wasn't very smart, In fact, she was regarded as stupid (at a time when they didn't have all the advanced terminology to describe people who struggle in school for various reasons.)  Bernadette had visions of "a lady" that no one else saw.  Many now believe she saw the mother of Jesus..  Aside from the miracles that came later at Lourdes, the sight where the visions occurred, one of the reasons they believed Bernadette was because wasn't intelligent yet she shared theological terms that the lady told her that were far above Bernadette's intellectual ability.

 

 

How did these likely special needs saints do it?  Grace. Pure and simple grace from God.

 

Special needs often has a way of keeping people humble.  Humility is an outstanding virtue!  I've read Catholic scholars that humility is the best way to defeat the devil because the devil understands pride but humility confuses him.  High intelligence may be a gift from God, but many smart people struggle with pride far more than those who struggle with basic concepts.  Being intellectually gifted doesn't always come with the gift of compassion. 

 

Special needs can help develop compassion, both in the special needs person and/or in those around them.  I have often thought that my husband is a better person because of his brother. And I think I've become a better person for having seen my sons work very hard to understand things that most people simply take for granted.  And I think my sons who struggle have more compassion on average than others who don't have those struggles.

 

I'll tell you a secret 've learned by observing humanity.  (Shhh!)  Everyone has some type a special need. And we all need grace.

[Ottakee]

I have worked extensively with the cognitively impaired---mostly mild to moderate---ages birth through senior citizens.  I have found that those that do best in the "real" world are those who have developed the best social skills.  In most settings the academic stuff matters much less.

 

The challenge is helping the child do as much as they are capable of.  I saw that many older cognitively impaired adults do far less than they might do if they were born now..............not because they were not loved and cared for..........but because their parents were told over and over by the professionals that their child would never do ................ (thinking a lot of the adults with Down Syndrome for example).

 

The challenge though is how to teach them the skills they need and work on those areas of difficulty.  Some of it is just honestly genetics, wiring, etc. as I have 3 special needs kids and my one with the lowest IQ likely has the best overall social skills.  He just has different special needs than my other 2.

[PeterPan]

Student Mommie, I think I know what you mean.  Especially in some church circles, things that are rewarded or cited as spiritual growth are really just the result of good upbringing and being NT with that strong, secure background.  So you enter someone who is different into that environment, someone who is maybe sincere (as many rule-following people are!) but quirky, unable to perceive things the way the church says, unable to effuse the way the church says, quirky in spite of their values (agree humility is good, still come across as proud) and it's really contradictory and hard to sort out.  And people within the church then have a tendency to moralize this and assume sin, volition, lack of desire, rather than seeing the heart.  Lecka has written some about this and I think it's really helpful to ponder, that idea of whether they are doing their best to the degree *they* are able to perceive and understand.  

 

And to the degree it seems contradictory or unfair, you're right.  The best "christian" I know is not a christian.  He's loyal, kind, makes conversation with everyone, is constantly generous and thinking of you, overlooks faults, is unbelievably patient, never talks over you or comes across as proud.  He doesn't even claim to be a christian.  He just happens to have this by virtue of stable parenting, temperament, something, I don't know.  So it's really ironic when a person like that is surrounded by people who claim to be of faith who have quirks who ramrod over him in conversation, are unkind or fight, etc. etc.  But those people struggle with anxiety and have their quirks.  

 

So I'm just agreeing with you about the contradiction.  Some christian writers/counselors want to take everything in the direction that people who struggle are ALL BAD and that if they would just read a verse and meditate it would GO AWAY.  (If you wanted to be better, you would be better.)  It's also possible to swing to another extreme and blow off everything and not challenge them at all to act on what they believe to the degree they're able.  So long as the person is acknowledging the challenge and not pretending it doesn't exist, I'm cool with it.