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Considering homeschooling dd again, and need help with test results


WaterLily
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My daughter is 10 years old, going into 5th grade, and I'm thinking about homeschooling her again. I homeschooled all my kids until 3 years ago when I put my oldest in public high school and then 2 years ago I put my other 3 in a Montessori school (public charter).

 

My daughter was adopted internationally at about 3 1/2 years old and at first I thought her reading struggles might be due to the language change. It became obvious that it wasn't that simple. Putting her in school for 3rd grade was very beneficial because we were able to have testing done to better understand her issues. My understanding, based on our IEP meeting at the end of 3rd grade, is that she has issues with short term memory and auditory processing, and a reading/language disability (dyslexia). Frankly, it's all a little confusing.  To make things more interesting, she also has mild conductive hearing loss! At this point they think that it's more auditory processing than the physical hearing loss that is causing her problems. In school she was also getting speech therapy for not being able to pronounce "r" properly.

 

Anyway, she had the Wechsler Fourth Edition (WISC-IV), Kaufman Test Second Edition (KTEA-II), and an Adaptive Behavior test (ABAS-II). I didn't get percentiles for everything so if anyone knows where I can find that info, that would be great! For the WISC-IV......

 

Verbal Comp 89

Perceptual Reasoning 104

Working Memory 80

Processing Speed 91

 

Her report says her "overall intellectual ability, as measured by the WISC-IV Full Scale Score, falls within the low average range of scores for a student her age (SS 89) and ranks at the 23rd percentile. However, examination of the cognitive test results from CHS Cross-Battey perspectives... evidence a pattern of strengths and weaknesses in cognition that renders this global score relatively meaningless." The report says her short term memory was in the 8th percentile. I could add more but this is already a long post.

 

The Kaufman showed similar results with math being average and most other areas were low average. Overall reading was 9th percentile and she was low average in phonics, reading comprehension, and sight word vocabulary. Phonological awareness was in the average range. Her writing and spelling areas were the lowest scores and were "below average".

 

She also has yet to pass an ISTEP.

 

OK, I'd love any feedback on that info. As far as school, I'm not sure she got enough help last year. It seems the Montessori school expects more independence than she can handle and I really don't think she got very much one-on-one help. She was regularly taken out of class for reading group and speech therapy but other than that (and testing accommodations) I don't think she got any extra help. She needs a lot of repetition and that didn't happen. One day at the end of the year while at the school helping out, I discovered how much she was struggling with long division and double digit multiplication. She was practically clueless. When I asked the teacher about that I was told that they'd been focusing on fractions for second semester......  I later approached her teacher and special education teacher with the idea of homeschooling her and was saddened when they  focused their concerns on how she needs to be "with her peers" and "in a social setting".  

 

If she goes back she'd have a new teacher so here I am trying to decide what to do.  She wants to be homeschooled again and I just want what's best for her.  I feel like I could do better than what she got last year but I'm still concerned about how to best deal with her needs.  I feel like I'd need a totally different approach than what I did with my boys.

 

I cant apologize enough for the length of this post. If you made it through, thank you!!!!, and I'd love any thoughts or advice.  I'm a little overwhelmed.

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My son, who has been diagnosed with dyslexia, ADHD, auditory processing issues, and vision issues, did not do well in his Montessori elementary school in 1st grade.  In fact, his reading and math skills *deteriorated* significantly during that year. 

 

I don't think that a Montessori school is a good environment for a child who needs to be explicitly taught, and that is something that kids with dyslexia and other conditions that impact learning absolutely need.

 

After three or so years of homeschooling, my son was doing *much better* academically.  But he would have been lost if we had left him in the Montessori school (or probably *any* school).

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Although I have never had kids in a Montessori setting my mother tutored me after school in Montessori when I was little.   I am not dyslexic, nor do I have any auditory issues that I am aware of.  I did fine.  But I have two dyslexic kids with other issues, as well as strengths and I agree, I don't think Montessori would be the best option for most kids with dyslexia.  

 

She wants to homeschool.  You have already homeschooled so you are not a total rookie.  You already have the testing out of the way so you have some clue what you are facing.  There are many resources out there that might help you to help her and she will certainly get more one on one attention at home than she would at school.  Perhaps homeschooling for 5th grade, to see how you both function, would be a really great option.  It sounds like her school really isn't clued in to how she may learn best and certainly if they are more concerned about her "socialization" than her academic struggles then they really aren't tuned in to the benefits of homeschooling either.  Therefore, the teacher and special ed person would not be able to give you an accurate analysis of what might be the best path for your daughter at this time.  Go with your gut.  What is your gut telling you?  Mine was telling me to pull my kids out of school LOOONNNNGG before I actually did, much to my regret..  

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I appreciate hearing more firsthand experience with Montessori and your opinion about it. I love so much about Montessori but am realizing that it may not be ideal for every child.

 

No, I'm not a rookie, that's true. I'm just concerned about finding the best curricula and resources for her needs. I guess since I'm leaning toward homeschooling her next year I need to kick my researching into high gear! :) You're right about the teachers' opinions not being very helpful. That was disappointing because I had built relationships with them but I guess that has nothing to do with how they feel about homeschooling. I was just hoping for some useful feedback from them. My gut. Yep, will definitely not ignore that. ;) Thank you!

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I don't think any one program can work for every child, even if it is Montessori.  

 

I also think that when they say they are benefiting her socially, on one hand, that is very valuable.  But I think that it is also a cop-out that maybe they realize they are not serving her academically, and maybe they rationalize that by focusing on the things that do go very well for her at school.  

 

Not that I think that makes them bad in any way, I think that has to be reality for teachers sometimes.  

 

But that is kind-of the kind of thing I heard from my son's K teacher when she had given up on really being able to teach him and really expecting him to learn.  And he needed so much help and was not qualifying for services -- I don't know how she could have helped him.  B/c it truly took hours of one-on-one for him to learn.  I don't know how his teacher could have provided that for him.  But at the same time, I think he knew he was given up on by his teacher.  I despise this teacher, but I also acknowledge she is kind and well-meaning.  She just didn't know how to help my son learn to read.  But sorry, don't give up on my kid.  

 

Another thing, knowing how much one-on-one time I spent with my son on reading (I don't have to continue to work with him at this level, b/c he is able to read independently now), locally he just would not get that amount of time in reading group.  I like the reading specialist, I think she is kind, I think she gets a lot done with some kids.  But I think -- your daughter is at 9th percentile now.  That is probably pretty behind.  I cannot say if her test results imply that this is the best she can do or not.  But it seems like it is pretty low to me.  

 

I also think, maybe with her auditory processing, a group learning environment (even if this means reading group -- it is still a group and not one-on-one) means that the teacher can't always be focused on her and making sure she understands what is being said.  That is not anyone's fault, but it may just be how it is.  Her auditory processing may be fine for a lot of social things where she is having an easier time.  But for academics it might be making it more difficult for her.  

 

I think you might think of independent testing if it might be possible.  I think this might be a time where she is not extremely delayed, so the school kind-of thinks of fitting her into what they offer, the reading group they offer.  If she is in a group then I make an assumption, she is doing whatever curriculum is best for the group.  Even if they change groupings and stuff, it is not individualized to her and was not chosen just for her.  And -- this can matter for dyslexia, even without the additional issues.  

 

I think independent testing might be able to answer some questions about what curriculum or teaching method to use with her.  

 

Locally this depends on the "building principal" but it can be allowed for private therapists to tutor students during school hours in the school building.  It can also be allowed for students to be picked up from school early, or dropped off late, in order to go to outside therapy or tutoring.  It is an option for people who need to work but can pay for therapy and transportation (or insurance pays).  It seems like it is not something that a lot of people know about as an option, and I was discouraged from taking my son out early by his 1st grade teacher.... in 2nd grade and 3rd grade I told the teacher it needed to happen, and low and behold, they could tell me "please don't take him early on x day because he will miss y" and then it worked out fine. 

 

I think if she can improve her reading, it is a given she will need one-on-one with you or a tutor.  

 

Otoh if you go to private testing and you hear that she is very low, really, and they think the school services are actually very appropriate for her despite the low scores, then that would be a different situation.  

 

But to be honest I would worry they have kind-of given up on being able to help her academically.  She is going to pass from grade to grade whether she does well in academics or not, it sounds like.  

 

I don't know how the school is set up or if this would be more stressful to her instead of easier to her, but you might be able to supplement during part of the day and send her part of the day.  But, I think you could also find other social opportunities for her, not only formally as part of the school.  B/c social development is so important, but there is no balance if is comes at the expense of math and reading.  

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/

 

This is the link for Barton reading.  It is an option.  I don't necessarily specifically recommend it, but I think if you look around, you can just get a sense like -- wow, look at all these testimonials about kids who spent years in reading group without making much progress.  And then, with lots of time and a specialized curriculum, they do make progress. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Wrightslaw-Emotions-Advocacy-Education-Survival/dp/1892320096/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top  This is a book I read from the library.  It is a book people recommend a lot, and they have a website wrightslaw.  In about chapters 8,9,10, and 11 I found out some things I had not known.  With testing, sometimes it can be really hard to tell if a child is making progress, b/c maybe the tests are not very specific.  It is the difference between having a vague idea maybe my son didn't make much progress in a certain subject, and seeing, wow, he barely made any progress.  The teachers can also have a fuzzy idea and not exactly know.  

 

But I think this is a good book, too, b/c it is just hard when you like a school and have built a relationship with teachers, and like them, and all of those things, but then you are in a situation where your child is not benefiting as much as is needed, and then you have to be in a situation of needing to advocate or make a hard decision to take a different path.  

 

But I also think, sometimes, if you ask for more you get more.  I think it can come across that a parent is satisfied with the status quo, and then when it comes up -- oh, we have to go off auto-pilot here, then more can happen.  But a lot of times it takes a parent for that to happen.  

 

My son goes to a very nice school, and the fact is, some kids are just going to be below grade level.  I think teachers have to accept that on some level, they do not have the time or resources for every child, some kids are not behind enough to qualify for intense services.  They are still good people and good teachers.  But when I am the parent of a child who would be in that category, then that is reality, and I can try to change that or I can let him be socially promoted while he goes through school without making a lot of academic progress.  But it is not that he goes to a bad school.  It is just how it is, even though no one wants their kids to be the one in this situation, yet there are kids in this situation and someone is their parent, who loves them and wants the best for them, too.  

 

Edit:  my big takeaway from the book I linked, iirc (maybe it was another book), is that there are two extremes parents can have.  One, being very conciliatory to the school and really liking the school and teachers, and not wanting to have to advocate.  Then the other extreme is being very antagonistic toward the school.  The middle ground is more effective, where you try to get along, but also advocate and push for things.  

 

The book is really aimed at parents who have made a choice, that they want to make an effort with school.  It is not a book for someone who is considering homeschooling or staying with public school.  It just assumes you have already chosen public school.  So it might not be the best book to read if you are thinking more of homeschooling, b/c I may be sensitive, but it can come across a little like -- if you pull out your child to homeschool, it is b/c you haven't properly advocated.  But ---- I don't think that is true.  You can also just make a decision that homeschooling is the right choice.  But there are times when people pull their kids out after intense frustration with the school -- and I think that kind of thing can hang over like a cloud.  But just b/c some people choose to try to get things through school and then have a lot of problems and then pull their kids out -------- that does not have to have anything to do with your (or my) situation or experiences.  But I can feel like it does.  But, I also think it is a true thing, that sometimes schools will just not do any more, and it is just not enough.  

 

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I appreciate hearing more firsthand experience with Montessori and your opinion about it. I love so much about Montessori but am realizing that it may not be ideal for every child.

 

No, I'm not a rookie, that's true. I'm just concerned about finding the best curricula and resources for her needs. I guess since I'm leaning toward homeschooling her next year I need to kick my researching into high gear! :) You're right about the teachers' opinions not being very helpful. That was disappointing because I had built relationships with them but I guess that has nothing to do with how they feel about homeschooling. I was just hoping for some useful feedback from them. My gut. Yep, will definitely not ignore that. ;) Thank you!

 

What is it that you "love so much" about Montessori? 

 

I love their materials! I think that Montessori materials can work wonderful with children who have learning disabilities, (but the approach that some take to just show the children once or twice and then leave them on their own to figure things out doesn't.) I like Montessori materials because they beautiful and are very hands-on.  I use Barton, which Lecka linked above, and the Barton system relies heavily on a hands on approach that includes letter tiles. Orton-Gillingham methods for dyslexia all use some type of hands-on approach too, but in a slightly different way from Montessori's hands-on approach. 

 

If you are homeschooling your child, I suggest "playing" with some Montessori materials right next to your child so that by playing together you are teaching her explicitly what you'd like her to learn.  There are also lots of games and materials, including "Montessori materials" that work to help develop memory. (Since memory is one of your daughter's shortcomings, I suggest that improving her memory may help improve lots of things beyond just memory!)   I go to free Montessori websites to print or create materials sometimes as we homeschool.  But the Montessori approach is not my exclusive approach to homeschooling.  I'm sort of a Montessori-wanna-be, but I like and need other approaches to our homeschooling.  The Orton-Gillingham approach to reading is much more explicit.  My son needed that explicit teaching, but he also benefits from exploring the world around him in the spirit of Montessori.

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Lots of great stuff from Lecka and Merry Gardens.

 

I know this is stressful.  Have you read up?  Books I recommend (each has strengths and weaknesses but I have found lots of good info in these):

 

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

 

The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide

 

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

 

How to Homeschool Your Learning Abled Kid by Sandy Cook (posts on this board)

 

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

 

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss

 

 

The Barton Reading and Spelling site has some interesting info (free, no obligation to buy the system).  Also, Brian Butterworth has done extensive research on math difficulties so read some of his publications.  Ronit Bird has some great books for helping with number issues.  Lots of great resources out there.

 

 

What we have used/are using that I can actually recommend from using and liking:

 

LiPS by Lindamood Bell (since DS could not initially pass the Barton student screening)

Barton Reading and Spelling

Dynamo Math

Ronit Bird's Overcoming Difficulty with Numbers

 

Things we are in the process of getting ready to implement that I have heard good things about for our particular situation (dyslexia plus other issues) but have not used:

Dragon Naturally Speaking

Ginger

Inspiration

IEW

 

 

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__________________________________________________________

Lecka,

You make some very good points about the teachers and teachers in general.  I know how hard their jobs are and that they have their limitations on what they can do with the amount of students they have. I certainly believe there is some benefit to her being with her friends but I'm afraid the price may be too high. At our school there is a teacher and assistant in every room so the ratio is pretty good. I still feel like my daughter is slipping through the cracks. I know the help she got would often come from her best friend - another 4th grader.  And as far as I can tell, everything (aside from some standardized testing) was done in a group.  It's probably just not possible to give her the attention she needs to make sure she's actually learning and retaining!

 

You also addressed my concern regarding her actual ability. I just want her to reach her full potential ...... whatever that is! The testing helps, but it's still hard to know.  I don't want to have unrealistic expectations regarding her abilities or the school.  I don't know if the testing is enough to show me what she's capable of.  I'm trying to figure that out.

 

I hadn't thought about doing more testing.  I'll have to see if that's something we could afford. 

 

It's true that they will continue to pass her from grade to grade. When we met with them about a year ago, they were considering holding her back in 3rd grade. It was decided that holding her back wouldn't be beneficial because she may never "catch up" and she needs to be able to move on in things like math where she is closer to grade level. Also, our school has grades 1-3 together and grades 4-6 together so I do think it would've affected her negatively to keep her in 3rd grade. So they gave accommodations and moved her on.  When I told them I am considering homeschooling her to see if a little more one-on-one attention might help, I would think that that would show I'm not totally satisfied with how things are going.  They brought up the social concerns and that they could keep me better informed of what she's working on so I can help her at home.  Of course that's good but I kind of felt like I might as well homeschool!  I just thanked them for their input and left it at that b/c I didn't think they could have an unbiased opinion.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts and recommendations!  Lots to think about!!!

 

 

merry gardens,

Yes, we could certainly incorporate Montessori materials and ideas at home.  Initially I thought the school would be good for her needs b/c of all the manipulatives and hands-on type materials.  I still think those things are great but maybe she needed more instruction and repetition.

 

You are so right that improving her memory would improve so much more! They put something in her report about how the memory issue can result in difficulties in so many areas. I'd love to help her with that so maybe that's something I should be researching. Again, I'm not sure how much improvement is realistic but we can try!

 

Thanks for you input and recommendations!

 

 

OneStepAtATime,

Thank you for all the great suggestions! I admit, I haven't read much. Well, I've done my share of internet research but haven't read many books. It's overwhelming and it's hard to know where to start. I see a library trip in my future! :) Thanks so much!

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It's overwhelming and it's hard to know where to start. I see a library trip in my future! :) Thanks so much!

I think many, if not most, of us her on this board have been where you are now and totally understand.  I still have days when I get so worried.  And it is hard to know which way to leap.  Making that call puts everything on your shoulders.  Not an easy place to be.  

 

I will say that pulling the kids out of school has been of great benefit in most ways for my own family.  We are making progress that might never have occurred otherwise.  For us, it was absolutely the right decision, at least for now.  I still have moments of panic but they don't last long.  And our stress level, for the most part, decreased about a billion times.  The kids needed one on one attention and they just could not get that at school.  Not the teachers' fault.  It is just how things are in many school settings.  Yes, taking that leap of faith was huge and terribly scary.  And I had never homeschooled before, or even thought about homeschooling.  But we made it.   :)

 

Read up, do more research if you need to before you commit one way or the other.  Just know that no matter what you decide, you are not alone.  You will have a lot of support either way, if you need it, from the wonderful people here.  

 

Big hugs.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, I think I just realized that there is a "learning challenges" board as well as a "special needs" board, correct? I didn't even realize there were two when I posted! :) Maybe this post would have fit better on the learning challenges board? I gave my daughter the Barton screening and had some questions so maybe I should post there?

 

Thanks again for the advice, encouragement, and support, BTW! :)

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