Specific LD in Reading and Writing - 3rd/4th Grade Curriculum/Plan

[FloridaMomTo5]

Here we go again....

I'm not a new homeschooler. We pulling our oldest daughter out of public after she completed Kindergarten 10 years ago, so I'm not new to the rodeo. I AM new to the learning disability one though.  We made the choice to enroll our 3rd child into a charter school last year for her 3rd grade year.  After much frustration with reading we knew their would be some issues with milestones from the school. Sure enough they told us she was behind in reading. Pretty drastically.  Not a shock. I had been hoping that her struggle with reading was just a delay in having the "click" moment.  After having her evaluated by an independant psych we learned that she did have a pretty significant memory deficiency that was less than helpful in her ability to read. So... fast forward to the end of 3rd grade.... She had improved her reading so greatly that everyone was excited about it, but her comprehension was low and she failed the FCAT (state test that must be passed in 3rd grade for promotion). She's been going to Summer school as a last effort to be promoted, but I am less than pleased with the public schools right now and my heart is pulling me back to home education.

 

So... do you have a student with LD in reading and writing? What are your best suggestions? Websites? Blogs to follow? My #1 goal is to rebuild her self confidence! She's gained a significant amount of weight which I truly believe is a result of stress, so I want to help her relax and enjoy learning again.

 

I would best describe our homeschool as eclectic.  My oldest is going to early college next year, but our 2nd child is doing similiar work as she...saxon, shurley english, apologia, books for history.  I have no idea how these things that I'm accustom with will work with an LD child. Thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Beth

[OneStepAtATime]

You might want to read some books first before buying curriculum.  There are several recommended on this board.

 

Maybe start with The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide, The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide and Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.

 

And yes, my kids have LDs in reading and writing, but presented differently in school and need somewhat different approaches.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[FloridaMomTo5]

Thank you! I like your "onesteopatatime" user name :) Definitely been our motto, but forgotten from time to time when the proverbial 'waves' crash around us. I will look at those books. Life is full here so I'm trying my hardest to get organized and gear up for having everyone home again.

 

 

You might want to read some books first before buying curriculum.  There are several recommended on this board.

 

Maybe start with The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide, The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide and Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.

 

And yes, my kids have LDs in reading and writing, but presented differently in school and need somewhat different approaches.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

See if the library has them in audio form.  Maybe you could listen with headsets while you are doing housework or something....?  I know trying to find the time and energy to read can be quite challenging.  You might get on the Dyslexic Advantage Website, the Barton Reading and Spelling Website and do a search for Kathy Kuhl.  I think she has a website that might help.  Skim through the free info on those sites.  It might be faster than reading a whole book.  Also, Sandy Cook, who posts here, has written a book on homeschooling kids with learning difficulties and has a blog.  Seek out old posts of hers and also do a search for her blog.  I would link but my borrowed computer is whacked out....

[FairProspects]

This is a HUGE question and depends so much on the child their strengths and weaknesses even within the diagnosis as well as their subtest scores.

 

I have 2 dxd dyslexics and 3rd grade will look vastly different for both of them. More than likely you will need some kind of Orton-Gillingham program for teaching reading and spelling but there is variance even among these types of programs. My older dyslexic eventually picked up reading and really only got stuck on multi-syllable words along with fluency, so he needed Rewards but not much else for reading remediation. His writing composition work is going to be difficult though. My younger dyslexic needed Barton and lots of specific spelling instruction to learn to read at all. However, he is an incredible verbal processor who has a lot to say, and once the decoding/encoding issues are tackled, teaching him to write will be easy. It all depends on the child. What is the reading level of your dd? What are her strengths and weaknesses? Do you have subtest scores that give you more info from the eval?

[Heathermomster]

For reading comprehension and writing, you may want to consider a more hands-on approach for learning and demonstrating her knowledge.  Maybe look at dioramas and poster type projects.  Here's a book to give you ideas. 

 

How is she with math facts and handwriting? 

[Pen]

Is her reading comprehension low truly? Or is her ability to do a standardized test the problem?

 

If the former and she has the decoding part under her belt already, I would just do a lot of reading and discussing the thing read with her to see what she might need more help with.

 

If the latter, then do test practice.

[Pen]

...

So... do you have a student with LD in reading and writing?

 

Yes.

What are your best suggestions? Websites? Blogs to follow? My #1 goal is to rebuild her self confidence! She's gained a significant amount of weight which I truly believe is a result of stress, so I want to help her relax and enjoy learning again.

 

I would best describe our homeschool as eclectic.  My oldest is going to early college next year, but our 2nd child is doing similiar work as she...saxon, shurley english, apologia, books for history.  I have no idea how these things that I'm accustom with will work with an LD child. Thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Beth

 

Different kids do better or worse with different programs and so you have to figure out your own child's needs.

 

My son at grade 3 - 4 did well with MUS for math which had easy page layout and lots of writing room, little to read.

 

He did not have a reading comprehension problem, only decoding, so once he could decode he could comprehend. However, I am inclined to suggest some of the materials from Critical Thinking Co. for working on comprehension--though it is hard to say depending on the problems. What we used for decoding www.highnoonbooks.com also has materials for comprehension, but since for my ds that was not an issue, I do not know how they would be. We have used things like Critical Thinking's Math Detective and my son liked it, especially the computer version. It has comprehension aspects, though probably things like Inference Jones and Reading Detective have even more.

 

An online class with Bravewriter (Kidswrite Basic) helped get over a hump with writing.

 

At 12, my ds is now using Saxon math 8/7 with prealgebra and AoPS prealgebra. And he is using Hake grammar. But these would have been much too wordy for him a few years back.  We use a lot of DVD learning for history and science, though also he reads books on those. I cannot speak to apologia or shurley, but my impression is they too would have been on the too wordy side.

[geodob]

Something that you could look at, is the way that she reads?

Specifically, whether her eyes move from one word to the next, as she reads?

When children first learn to read, it is a word by word process, with the focus on developing word recognition.

 

But once basic word recognition is developed.

Then their is a change where the eyes move in 'blocks of words', from one block to the next.

Which enables greater comprehension.

To appreciate the difference. Perhaps you could try re-reading this. But when you read it, read it by moving your eyes from one word to the next?

Where you will probably find it difficult to comprehend what you are reading, when you read word by word?

As it is more like reading a word list.

 

So perhaps you could look at how she actually reads?

[merry gardens]

I agree with those who wrote different reading problems require different methods.

 

I'm also an eclectic homeschooler who had lots of homeschool experience before I ran into a child with serious reading challenges.  I tried a variety of things that didn't work before I found some things that did.  Barton Reading and Spelling was the turning point--and the Barton student screen showed that my son needed another program to develop his sound discrimination before he'd even be reading to start Barton. Barton sent me to  LiPS, which was developed by Lindamood-Bell, and they developed a variety of reading programs to address a variety of reading challenges.

 

I'd recommend you check out both Barton  at bartonreading.com and Lindamood-Bell at ganderpublishing.com to scan through their programs. They may give you a feel for some of the various problems people can have with reading.  Barton is a scripted Orton-Gillingham styled 10 level program developed for people with dyslexia, and it has been the backbone of our homeschooling for the past several years.  I've also included various Lindamood-Bell materials, including some from the Visualizing and Verbalizing for reading comprehension, plus another program similar to V&V.

 

Add to that we've done simple work to improve memory, and we've done vision therapy and more.

 

Oh, if you haven 't already done so, you may want to have your son's hearing and vision screened, and perhaps speech too.  We had already done that, but the speech therapist didn't know how to remediate my son's issues that showed up again on the Barton student screen.  That's one of the many reasons why I'm thankful to Susan Barton who developed Barton Reading and Spelling--she referred us to the LiPs program, which is what my son needed to start making real progress with his reading. 

 

So...reading comprehension you say is the trouble now, plus she had difficulty learning to read.  It could be she's so focused on de-coding that she's not paying attention to anything but one word at a time.  How are her fluency and de-coding skills? De-coding doesn't automatically translate to comprehension. If her reading is choppy, she may need work on fluency.  Or if she doesn't comprehend the vocabulary, de-coding won't be enough. 

 

If you are open to homeschooling this child again, that's what I'd do--especially if you want to re-build her confidence while teaching her to read to the best of her ability.  Homeschooling a child with dyslexia or other reading and learning struggles can certainly be a challenge, (understatement!) but if you can identify what the specific difficulties are, you can address them at your child's pace.  There are some excellent programs available to help your child, as well as excellent support for homeschool mothers such as this forum. 

 

 

 

[FloridaMomTo5]

This is a HUGE question and depends so much on the child their strengths and weaknesses even within the diagnosis as well as their subtest scores.

 

I have 2 dxd dyslexics and 3rd grade will look vastly different for both of them. More than likely you will need some kind of Orton-Gillingham program for teaching reading and spelling but there is variance even among these types of programs. My older dyslexic eventually picked up reading and really only got stuck on multi-syllable words along with fluency, so he needed Rewards but not much else for reading remediation. His writing composition work is going to be difficult though. My younger dyslexic needed Barton and lots of specific spelling instruction to learn to read at all. However, he is an incredible verbal processor who has a lot to say, and once the decoding/encoding issues are tackled, teaching him to write will be easy. It all depends on the child. What is the reading level of your dd? What are her strengths and weaknesses? Do you have subtest scores that give you more info from the eval?

Her reading level is almost an average 3rd grader. At the beginning of the year they said she was preK level (I cannot trust that initial eval from the public school teacher though since she tested her on the first day of school and her first day in a traditional school environment not to mention we had just moved half way across the country). Her major issue right now is with comprehension. She does much better if things are read to her; indicating she's an auditory learner. She loves math, but tested low despite her IEP allowing for the word problems to be read to her. I'm so confused about that one. She's gotten great math grades all yr. She was a public school honor roll student who failed their test. Her handwriting is definitely a strength. Overall she's so stressed though that it's causing wait gain and constant thumb sucking. Ugh. Her IQ was average from her psych eval. No other subtests at this time.

[FloridaMomTo5]

For reading comprehension and writing, you may want to consider a more hands-on approach for learning and demonstrating her knowledge. Maybe look at dioramas and poster type projects. Here's a book to give you ideas.

 

How is she with math facts and handwriting?

 

 

 

 

Her math facts are adequate and handwriting beautiful....better than the older kids in fact.

 

Is her reading comprehension low truly? Or is her ability to do a standardized test the problem?

 

If the former and she has the decoding part under her belt already, I would just do a lot of reading and discussing the thing read with her to see what she might need more help with.

 

If the latter, then do test practice.

You nailed it. Test taking is the worst for her. Her reading is improving (indicating to me that she's finally had the 'click' moment), but her test scores for comprehension low.

[FloridaMomTo5]

Different kids do better or worse with different programs and so you have to figure out your own child's needs.

 

My son at grade 3 - 4 did well with MUS for math which had easy page layout and lots of writing room, little to read.

 

He did not have a reading comprehension problem, only decoding, so once he could decode he could comprehend. However, I am inclined to suggest some of the materials from Critical Thinking Co. for working on comprehension--though it is hard to say depending on the problems. What we used for decoding www.highnoonbooks.com also has materials for comprehension, but since for my ds that was not an issue, I do not know how they would be. We have used things like Critical Thinking's Math Detective and my son liked it, especially the computer version. It has comprehension aspects, though probably things like Inference Jones and Reading Detective have even more.

 

An online class with Bravewriter (Kidswrite Basic) helped get over a hump with writing.

 

At 12, my ds is now using Saxon math 8/7 with prealgebra and AoPS prealgebra. And he is using Hake grammar. But these would have been much too wordy for him a few years back. We use a lot of DVD learning for history and science, though also he reads books on those. I cannot speak to apologia or shurley, but my impression is they too would have been on the too wordy side.

I have not heard of the Critical Thinking Co., but looking now and impressed. Thank you, and sadly I think you're right about Shurley and apologia being too wordy for her. I enjoy them so much, but each child is different.

[FloridaMomTo5]

Something that you could look at, is the way that she reads?

Specifically, whether her eyes move from one word to the next, as she reads?

When children first learn to read, it is a word by word process, with the focus on developing word recognition.

 

But once basic word recognition is developed.

Then their is a change where the eyes move in 'blocks of words', from one block to the next.

Which enables greater comprehension.

To appreciate the difference. Perhaps you could try re-reading this. But when you read it, read it by moving your eyes from one word to the next?

Where you will probably find it difficult to comprehend what you are reading, when you read word by word?

As it is more like reading a word list.

 

So perhaps you could look at how she actually reads?

Fascinating, but once I discover how she reads what is the next step?

[FloridaMomTo5]

I agree with those who wrote different reading problems require different methods.

 

I'm also an eclectic homeschooler who had lots of homeschool experience before I ran into a child with serious reading challenges. I tried a variety of things that didn't work before I found some things that did. Barton Reading and Spelling was the turning point--and the Barton student screen showed that my son needed another program to develop his sound discrimination before he'd even be reading to start Barton. Barton sent me to LiPS, which was developed by Lindamood-Bell, and they developed a variety of reading programs to address a variety of reading challenges.

 

I'd recommend you check out both Barton at bartonreading.com and Lindamood-Bell at ganderpublishing.com to scan through their programs. They may give you a feel for some of the various problems people can have with reading. Barton is a scripted Orton-Gillingham styled 10 level program developed for people with dyslexia, and it has been the backbone of our homeschooling for the past several years. I've also included various Lindamood-Bell materials, including some from the Visualizing and Verbalizing for reading comprehension, plus another program similar to V&V.

 

Add to that we've done simple work to improve memory, and we've done vision therapy and more.

 

Oh, if you haven 't already done so, you may want to have your son's hearing and vision screened, and perhaps speech too. We had already done that, but the speech therapist didn't know how to remediate my son's issues that showed up again on the Barton student screen. That's one of the many reasons why I'm thankful to Susan Barton who developed Barton Reading and Spelling--she referred us to the LiPs program, which is what my son needed to start making real progress with his reading.

 

So...reading comprehension you say is the trouble now, plus she had difficulty learning to read. It could be she's so focused on de-coding that she's not paying attention to anything but one word at a time. How are her fluency and de-coding skills? De-coding doesn't automatically translate to comprehension. If her reading is choppy, she may need work on fluency. Or if she doesn't comprehend the vocabulary, de-coding won't be enough.

 

If you are open to homeschooling this child again, that's what I'd do--especially if you want to re-build her confidence while teaching her to read to the best of her ability. Homeschooling a child with dyslexia or other reading and learning struggles can certainly be a challenge, (understatement!) but if you can identify what the specific difficulties are, you can address them at your child's pace. There are some excellent programs available to help your child, as well as excellent support for homeschool mothers such as this forum.

Thank you. This was so enlightening to me and encouraging. Bella is a beautiful spirited girl and I want her to be confident in who she is. Rebuilding that will be our focus to start. She reads well now after a lot of hard work last year, but yes, she still requires fluency work.

[Pen]

...

 

You nailed it. Test taking is the worst for her. Her reading is improving (indicating to me that she's finally had the 'click' moment), but her test scores for comprehension low.

 

I understand that the test scores were low. But when she reads and talks about it with you, do you perceive her to be comprehending what she reads, or not?

 

She may have a combination of test taking anxiety, lack of test taking skills, and also low comprehension, but it may be that it is not all three and it would be good to know what needs to be dealt with. It could be just anxiety, for example.

 

Will she have to take the test again, or any standardized test? Or if you go to homeschooling will that be not an issue at least for awhile? Or was the progress made at the PS significant enough that it makes sense to try to keep her there, but to work on the anxiety problem?

[Pen]

Her reading level is almost an average 3rd grader. At the beginning of the year they said she was preK level (I cannot trust that initial eval from the public school teacher though since she tested her on the first day of school and her first day in a traditional school environment not to mention we had just moved half way across the country). Her major issue right now is with comprehension. She does much better if things are read to her; indicating she's an auditory learner. She loves math, but tested low despite her IEP allowing for the word problems to be read to her. I'm so confused about that one. She's gotten great math grades all yr. She was a public school honor roll student who failed their test. Her handwriting is definitely a strength. Overall she's so stressed though that it's causing wait gain and constant thumb sucking. Ugh. Her IQ was average from her psych eval. No other subtests at this time.

 

Does she ever do well on standardized testing? The math seeming to be lower in testing than in real life also suggests test specific problems--skills for testing and or anxiety.

[Pen]

If you have not done so already, I would have her take the grade 3 sample tests available here http://fcat.fldoe.org/fcat2/fcatitem.asp such that you can see for yourself what seems to be causing problems, what seem to be areas where she does not understand, stress level even in a home practice environment and so on.