Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 My son is in the icu. His heart rate is abnormal and the cardiologist is trying a new medicine overnight while monitoring all his rates. Several times tonight we've had alarms going off for the reasons he is being monitored. No one was coming in the room and ny son was making a weird sound. His blood ox level was 80. I went out to find someone and the nurse was asleep in front of the screen at the desk. So, I'm stressed but understand shift work. I wake her and ask her to check him. She comes in and has him lay on his back. Several hours later the same thing happens only on this side of icu a male nurse is sleeping on the other side 6 nurses are loudly laughing and joking (at 3am) I ask for the dr to be paged. She had told me to page her any time she is in the hospital all night. They don't page her. A few of them come in and try to tell me its his iv beeping. Its not. Then they want to know why I'm even here. They can't believe I'm his mother. I'm so young- yada yada. Then they tell me his numbers are fine and he doesn't even need to be monitered. I explain that yes he does that the cardiologist explained what we were looking for and he needs all the info from tonight to make decisions tomorrow. Argh. I know this could be me just freaking out over nothing- but am I justified in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 So many typos- I'm on my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm not a medical person, but I think you're completely justified in not being happy with the staffs' behavior, and particularly with the refusal to page the doctor. That's inexcusable, IMO. As far as the info the cardiologist needs -- I'm guessing it's being recorded somewhere via one (or more) of your DS's monitors. I could be wrong, though. :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yes, you are justified in being upset. The sleeping alone is unacceptable, shift work or not. I've never in my life seen ICU nurses sleeping on duty. There could have been reasons for the monitors going off that weren't actually indicative of a problem. For example, the pulse ox is notorious for going off because it isn't reading well or if a patient is moving his arm (or leg or wherever it is). Not being there, I don't know if that was the reason but it is possible that they were less worried because they could tell it wasn't accurate. That could be why they told him to change position and it got better, it may not have been reading well. BUT. They should have explained that better if that was the reason and if you asked for the doctor to be paged, they should have paged the doctor. Not to justify them, but it's possible that the doctor is difficult to work with and they have gotten burnt before when paging her for something that wasn't an emergency. Some doctors will tell patients that "they can always be called/paged" but then really expect the nurse to take care of most of and prevent them from needing to be paged. I don't know if that's the situation there but it's possible. Also, regardless of whether or not it was just monitor trouble and the cardiologist did or did not need to be paged, a large part of medical care is communication with patients and their families. Even if medically they did everything right if they left you feeling like they didn't care and weren't taking you or your son's care seriously than that is a failure on their part. At this point I would first talk to the doctor. Is the cardiologist the only doctor involved? I would imagine that she is not the attending (the person in charge of your son's care) as I remember you said he has meningitis. You can talk to the cardiologist and also the attending, who if it is the intensive care doctor may have more authority over the ICU and the way it is run. And should definitely be informed about the sleeping. If you feel like it's not being taken care of appropriately or you aren't being taken seriously every hospital has a patient care advocate. You always have the right to request to talk to that person. It is their job to then look at what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. :grouphug: I know it's stressful having a sick child. How is your son doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I totally get all of that. If they weren't sleeping than I wouldn't have doubted that the monitor was wrong. But how would they know if they aren't even awake. I just feel like only the infectious disease specialist is actually good at her job. This is a tiny hospital. The goal is to get him out of here tomorrow and then back to Chicago thursday. Where at northwestern or rush nurses don't sleep on duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaplank Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 When my mom was in the icu I stayed with her all night and I was appalled by the atrocious and unprofessional behavior of the nurses. Once my mom stabalized I went to the hospital's ombudsman and filed a complaint. This sounds like something you should consider once you can safely leave your son's side. So sorry for all you are going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 When my husband comes back in the morning. We will meet with the doctor team, I will file a complaint, and then I'm going to the hotel to take a nap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 ICU nurses should not be sleeping on duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insertcreativenamehere Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've spent a lot of time in hospitals with my son, including a few long stints in ICU. The behavior you're describing is awful! I would try to speak with the intensivist (the doctor who works on the floor coordinating the care of all patients with their specialists.) There may also be a resident you could speak with who could help. Short of that, I'd speak with the charge nurse and ask for a new nurse. Nurses can lose their license for sleeping -- I'm shocked that they were sleeping right in front of you! I'd also be concerned with the 80% reading on the pulse oximeter. I don't know the particulars of your son's situation, but that is not normal. Is he on oxygen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If the pulse ox meter is on his finger, then just curling his fingers a bit (like gripping the sheet or making a fist) can cause a low reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I actually think maybe the finger monitor is messed up. When the crowd came in after I caught them asleep my son was offered oxygen. His numbers went up to 93 on oxygen. I had him stay on it for an hour. He said it hurt his nose. So from 3:30am until now (5:40 am) he has been off and was at 89/90. I'm sure they gave him oxygen just to placate me. Only another hour or so before the docs make their rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 :grouphug: The sleeping certainly sounds very unprofessional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Ohhh, how scary. ((((HUGS))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I can't imagine any ICU nurse sleeping! I never saw anything like that in all the times I've sat with a loved one. Hope and pray you get answers and that he is doing better today. :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I actually think maybe the finger monitor is messed up. When the crowd came in after I caught them asleep my son was offered oxygen. His numbers went up to 93 on oxygen. I had him stay on it for an hour. He said it hurt his nose. So from 3:30am until now (5:40 am) he has been off and was at 89/90. I'm sure they gave him oxygen just to placate me. Only another hour or so before the docs make their rounds. Giving oxygen to a person that does not need it can cause problems as well. They should have made sure he needed it first. Sleeping on the job is not acceptable. It sounds like the nursing staff needs cleaning up. Sorry you are going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticmomma Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Sleeping?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Sleeping on the job is unacceptable. The nurses sound very unprofessional to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Frankly, I would have pulled out my cell phone and taken a video, that way when someone tried to tell me that they weren't actually sleeping - "just resting their eyes", I could hand them the video and if they were snoring, even better. My Aunt is some sort of head of nursing in the emergency surgery section. Heads would roll for much less then sleeping! That's terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I wish I would have either taken a photo or video. I just didn't think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Also not medical but I've recently spent four months 24/7 in an acute care wing of a reputable hospital, including nights when nurses were doing long shifts due to being short-staffed during storms. Laughing and joking--yes, and I'm ok with that because it's a stressful job with long hours and happier employees will be better at their jobs. Not once did I see an employee sleeping. Not once did anyone dismiss my request to page the doctor. On the contrary they often suggested it at times when I might not have. Never once did anyone minimize my caregiver role. A nursing supervisor responsible for the wing came around every so often to specifically ask about the care my son was getting, and took the concern we expressed about one staff person seriously. Find that person on the daytime shift and go have a chat. If you saw two sleeping nurses in ICU then I'd bet a culture has developed where staff members are overlooking dangerous practices in fellow workers. Also, until this is sorted out, ask the doctors who see your son for one of their cards, so you will have their pager numbers and can page yourself if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratford Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm an RN. You NEVER sleep at work. Ever. Never, ever, ever. I would complain (about the sleeping, blowing off your concerns about the monitor, and not paging the physician when you requested) and escalate that complaint until something was done. Sounds like your son has a fantastic patient advocate! Hope your son is on the mend soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 FWIW, it's hard to tell about the pulse-ox thing. I had a one-year-old with RSV many years ago and the alarm kept going off. After several hours, the nurse finally said, out loud, "oh, maybe he really does need oxygen." (Duh, that's why we were there in the first place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splash Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I spent 35 days in PICU with my daughter in 2012. Not once did her night nurse sleep. As a matter of fact lots of nights with her were extremely busy as she always seemed worse at night. Her care was exhausting I'm sure, good thing she was tiny at the time. They never complained, they were wonderful, caring, encouraging and upbeat. One nurse I didn't care for because she was just sooooo slow and seemed not as capable so I just asked not to be assigned her again and they took care of it. There was always a doctor on the floor that I could find and ask questions. I know she was only 11 and he's older but I would assume the level of care should be the same. On regular floor it was harder to get a nurse at night. I did a lot more of her care, it was expected. Ratios were different. When she was really bad her nurse only had her as a patient. Then ratio went to 2 patients to 1 nurse. Regular floor was 4-5 patients per nurse. For oxygen. Sometimes we moved monitor to another finger to check if working correctly before treating. If not too off we'd just put oxygen by her face and help her breathe this was often enough. It made her very upset if we actually put it in her nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've spent a lot of time in hospitals with my son, including a few long stints in ICU. The behavior you're describing is awful! I would try to speak with the intensivist (the doctor who works on the floor coordinating the care of all patients with their specialists.) There may also be a resident you could speak with who could help. Short of that, I'd speak with the charge nurse and ask for a new nurse. Nurses can lose their license for sleeping -- I'm shocked that they were sleeping right in front of you! I'd also be concerned with the 80% reading on the pulse oximeter. I don't know the particulars of your son's situation, but that is not normal. Is he on oxygen? I'll venture a guess that if rivendellmom saw two nurses sleeping in ICU in the same night, that the charge nurse already knows about it and hasn't done a darn thing about it. The hosptial where we were staying the charge nurses were just some of the more experienced nurses on the floor that they assigned charge duties to on a rotating basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 When my husband comes back in the morning. We will meet with the doctor team, I will file a complaint, and then I'm going to the hotel to take a nap. Go get 'em, Mom! This is a chance to change things for many patients beyond your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If you have the time and the energy to spare after your ordeal with your son, I would call and file a complaint against the nurse. They were supposed to be on the job, not sleeping, and they should be implementing doctor's orders. You need to notify the doctor about this also. My son is in the icu. His heart rate is abnormal and the cardiologist is trying a new medicine overnight while monitoring all his rates. Several times tonight we've had alarms going off for the reasons he is being monitored. No one was coming in the room and ny son was making a weird sound. His blood ox level was 80. I went out to find someone and the nurse was asleep in front of the screen at the desk. So, I'm stressed but understand shift work. I wake her and ask her to check him. She comes in and has him lay on his back. Several hours later the same thing happens only on this side of icu a male nurse is sleeping on the other side 6 nurses are loudly laughing and joking (at 3am) I ask for the dr to be paged. She had told me to page her any time she is in the hospital all night. They don't page her. A few of them come in and try to tell me its his iv beeping. Its not. Then they want to know why I'm even here. They can't believe I'm his mother. I'm so young- yada yada. Then they tell me his numbers are fine and he doesn't even need to be monitered. I explain that yes he does that the cardiologist explained what we were looking for and he needs all the info from tonight to make decisions tomorrow. Argh. I know this could be me just freaking out over nothing- but am I justified in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 You are NOT overreacting. Nurses sleeping while they are supposed to be taking care of patients??? Not summoning physicians after monitors have gone off and nobody seems to have been able to explain correctly why and what the reason was? Finally asking stupid questions why his mother is there??? I think I would have been so upset, I would have snarked back: "Well someone has to be here since you are all snoozing." Someone in the know has suggested which path to take to file a complaint. I'd consider it. Can your son be transferred to a hospital near you? From your other post I got the impression this happened out of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 There is no excuse for a nurse sleeping on the job. A resident on a 24 hour-shift? Maybe. Not a nurse. And especially not a nurse in the ICU. I would complain. I have seen unprofessional behavior, though, even at a big city hospital. When my dad was in the hospital after his colon cancer surgery, he had some very difficult moments and we needed help. The nurses were too busy with their Halloween party to check on him. After much pestering, we had them page the surgeon. As it turns out, he had an intestinal blockage with his colostomy that needed to be cleared. It was causing him great pain. I was so glad to see him get out of there. That hospital has since closed. I am praying for quality care and healing for your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 My mom is an RN. At the hospital where she works there are dept nursing supervisors and a house nursing supervisor. I believe those are the people you want to contact to file complaints. Also contact Risk Management. You can complain to the docs who come around, but they may or may not have any direct supervisory authority over the nurses and they may or may not escalate your complaint. Nurses sleeping in the ICU is just abysmal. I think I'd consider pulling the wrath of JCAHO down on them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoHomeschooler Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm a nurse. This is totally unacceptable and I would speak with the charge nurse, the unit manager, the nursing supervisor, and hospital heads. My kiddo has been in an icu, I work in an icu, I get it. This is not ok, and I would advocate for my child, and the other patients and families affected by this unprofessional behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyniffrec Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Sounds like there are larger problems at that hospital. Find out if there is a patient advocate or family support group of some kind, although I doubt there is given how small it is. Maybe a social worker could speak for you if all else fails and you don't get out of there soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Praying that it is better today hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Gregg Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Another nurse here. NEVER NEVER NEVER okay to sleep at work. You need to file a complaint. I hope your kiddo improves and that the nurses act with professionalism and compassion that is the hallmark of this profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Wow! I would have been livid. Good thing you and your husband are there watching your son. Definitely try to get your son to Chicago somehow. Northwestern, Rush, U of Chicago. While you're waiting there, here are Chicago Magazine's Best Doctors 2014 list and Best Hospitals 2013. Infectious disease specialists are listed. http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2014/best-doctors-other-specialties/ http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2013/Top-Hospitals-Chicago-and-Suburbs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readwithem Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Wow. Unbelievable. I'll say it again - I'm so glad you and your dh are there - nobody will be a better advocate for your ds. Let me know if you can use air miles. DH travels a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I would ask to speak the the head nurse to discuss your concerns. You can also ask to speak to the head nurse who was in charge of that shift. Sleeping during a shift is a serious concern. They may decided that your son's readings were within normal limits, but you certainly should be secure in knowing the nursing staff is awake enough to respond appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I would be tempted to get video of their sleeping, but I'm sure that's against some hospital rule, as should be the rule of NOT sleeping on duty!!! I'd ask the doctor point blank, "Do you really mean to page you? Because I asked for you to be paged and the nurses (keep a record of the nurses' names and times and dates of your requests) refused.So, what should I do?" Put it back on the doc. Say why you wanted to page him and see if those were reasons he agrees with. Perhaps the doctor can tell you how to call his beeper/pager (assuming they're not obsolete now). I can't imagine the stresses of nurses and doctors these days, but bottom line, ICU means intensive care. A nurse I met while my mother was in the hospital (where she died) said she'd never leave any loved one alone in the hospital, even in ICU, even if it meant a fight. That made a big impact on me. and I was already staying nights w/ Mom when she wasn't in ICU. You don't want to get a reputation w/ the nurses, but you need to be an advocate for your son. That can be hard to balance. Angie not a medical person, but who saw and learned much while caring for my dying mother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Let us know when you have updated news of your son. I hope he is improving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 At the hospital where I work, sleeping on the job is grounds for immediate termination and I have seen it happen. Pick up a phone & ask the hospital operator to speak to the House Supervisor (typically an RN or Department Manager who oversees the daily staffing & handles issues as they arise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 He is in no way "better" we just have to use this window of stable to get him home. He may be hospitalized as soon as we reach chicago. When we were leaving I tried to talk to the nurse manager and was introduced to one of the nurses that were working all night. He didn't care. He gave me a "customer service response" Tell me what happened? Nodding, then wording the response so that he really said nothing. No admitting guilt, and did in no way acknowledge that maybe I had a point. I went to the business office and the patient advocate doesn't work today. And conveniently the only person I could talk to was in a meeting all day and couldn't be disturbed. The infectious disease doc had already given me her cell number so I called her. She works for 5 hospitals here. She said just to go. That if my son hadn't improved yesterday she was going to tell us to transfer him anyway. So we are in the hotel and will fly home in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Praying for an uneventful night, safe flight, and good care when you arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 You tried. That's a shame that they don't care. But I'm glad that he's can leave and get better care elsewhere. And I'm glad that despite their attitude that he had you to look out for him and is stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Wow. Unbelievable. I'll say it again - I'm so glad you and your dh are there - nobody will be a better advocate for your ds. Let me know if you can use air miles. DH travels a lot. Thanks. DH works for United. We have unlimited miles ;) We are number 1 on the standby list for this flight and there are plenty of unsold seats so we should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 He is in no way "better" we just have to use this window of stable to get him home. He may be hospitalized as soon as we reach chicago. When we were leaving I tried to talk to the nurse manager and was introduced to one of the nurses that were working all night. He didn't care. He gave me a "customer service response" Tell me what happened? Nodding, then wording the response so that he really said nothing. No admitting guilt, and did in no way acknowledge that maybe I had a point. I went to the business office and the patient advocate doesn't work today. And conveniently the only person I could talk to was in a meeting all day and couldn't be disturbed. The infectious disease doc had already given me her cell number so I called her. She works for 5 hospitals here. She said just to go. That if my son hadn't improved yesterday she was going to tell us to transfer him anyway. So we are in the hotel and will fly home in the morning. Smooth travel and best wishes for a speedy recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yes, safe journeys. What an ordeal, but at a certain point you have to just leave a situation where the care is sub-par and go where you can get decent care. There's one like that in my metro area that we will never, ever set foot in again. I don't care if they supposedly fixed the issues; I don't trust them any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 What hospital? I need to make sure we never end up there…. I hope your trip goes smoothly and your son is doing better very soon. I would focus on him right now and make any complaints later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Salt Lake City Regional Medical Center. It sounds bigger than it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 He is in no way "better" we just have to use this window of stable to get him home. He may be hospitalized as soon as we reach chicago. When we were leaving I tried to talk to the nurse manager and was introduced to one of the nurses that were working all night. He didn't care. He gave me a "customer service response" Tell me what happened? Nodding, then wording the response so that he really said nothing. No admitting guilt, and did in no way acknowledge that maybe I had a point. I went to the business office and the patient advocate doesn't work today. And conveniently the only person I could talk to was in a meeting all day and couldn't be disturbed. The infectious disease doc had already given me her cell number so I called her. She works for 5 hospitals here. She said just to go. That if my son hadn't improved yesterday she was going to tell us to transfer him anyway. So we are in the hotel and will fly home in the morning. I have one word for you….JHACO (Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations). You can look up the website to lodge a complaint. Include all the names, dates, times, etc you can remember. This is an organization that takes standards seriously and comes down HARD on hospitals found to be deficit in areas. Your information will be kept anonymous if you desire. I hope your son improves soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Did they send you out the door with isolation masks for him to wear when he's out in public? Very important that he not pick up anything else in his condition. Wishing you a safe and uneventful journey to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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