Testing question

[mommy25qtpies]

I posted the following post in the k-8 board but it was suggested to try here as well. I'm in the hampton roads area of Virginia. Anyone have recommendations of avenues of testing in my area?

 

 

Three of my five children were late readers but once they started reading they took off. So I never really worried when my youngest turned 5 and barely recognized the alphabet despite lots of reading to her, leap frog videos, fun activities, ect. I figured she would take off in that area eventually even though the others had their abcs down by 4. Well she is now 6.5 and I feel like banging my head against a wall. She has her sight words memorized but can't tell me what letter says the b sound let alone point the b out on a page. I feel totally stuck and not sure how to precede. We had been using CLE but that moved to fast for her so we are now using preK workbooks to go over the abcs again and again but I don't see any progress. We have had her eyes checked and she shows no signs of learning disabilities in other areas. She can memorize other things with ease and is in CLE 2nd grade math with no problem as long as I read the directions. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[PeterPan]

When you say you had her eyes checked, it was with a COVD doc?  I'm just asking, because our doc brought up the D word (dyslexia) with my ds.  His visual processing seems off (enough that they want to do full testing), but he seems to have NO functional vision problems according to their screening.  So his convergence, tracking, focusing, etc. is FINE but his visual processing is weak.  I think a pattern like that would not be unexpected with dyslexia, so if you've had her checked by a developmental optometrist and they DIDN'T notice something like that, then that to me is significant.  You could assume it's one thing and it turns out to be another.  (assume dyslexia and it's CAPD or hearing loss, for instance)

 

When you say the others were late readers, how late do you mean?  10?  6?  

 

The bummer about waiting and assuming it's just "late bloomer" stuff is you miss a valuable window for intervention if it's NOT.  You want private evals or through the ps?  It would be nice to get her screened by a COVD doc (developmental optometrist) if the doc checking her before was regular.  It's just sort of going through steps, least to most expensive, kwim?  I can get an annual exam for $60 with the dev. optom, where a neuropsych eval is $1500 around here.  So you sort of work through the steps.  

 

What we're also not seeing here is the entire context of your situation.  You probably are seeing other things that would steer this conversation in one direction or another.  You might make a list of those oddities, things that make you go hmmm, ask your dh or inlaws or SS teacher or whoever to add to the list, and then see if it reveals anything.  For instance, if your inlaws take her out to lunch and notice she has trouble filtering voices in a noisy restaurant, that's one of those things that make you go hmmm that will point you toward getting a CAPD screening.  You have lower budget and higher budget ways of doing that.  So that's what you're looking for, these little pieces that give you a picture of where to look.

 

If you just want to go for evals, yes, I've heard there's a good eval place in the Hampton Rds area.  I don't recall the name as it was mentioned to me a couple years ago.  Try googling CAPD, ADHD, and dyslexia plus Hampton Rds and see what comes up.  

 

It would just be nice to have more of those little pieces to fit together to decide what practitioner is your next step.  You could conceivably try a SLP, psych, or audiologist or go through the ps and let them do it or go to a place (like I know there is there) that has all three.  Just depends on what you're seeing.  Obviously for financial reasons you want to start with the least expensive thing first.

 

The other thing to remember is that these places can have long waiting lists.  Decide if where you'll be happy if you're still wondering in 3-4 months and make the appt with the psych you'd want to see.  Then if that time comes and she's turning 7 (which she probably would be by then) and this has all faded as a late bloomer thing, you just cancel the appt and move on.  But that way you don't hit 7 and have to wait ANOTHER 3-4 or more months after that.  That's when it gets ugly.  Things aren't ugly now, but it won't be fun if you hit 7 and realize you want that eval.

 

Ok, I found the one I was remembering.  I know someone who used them a number of years ago who was happy.  I know nothing more than that.  http://discoveryprogram-inc.com  Definitely get feedback and look at all your options.  An SLP, psych, or audiologist can run a CAPD screening.  The ps can do evals.  A dev. optom. can check for vision stuff.  Just depends on the mix of what you're seeing as to what way you go first.  With my ds, who can't even distinguish vowel sounds, we're doing it all.  I have him screened yearly by the COVD doc and the SLP runs tests and he's seeing a psych in the fall and I've talked with an audiologist.  But he has apraxia (a motor control speech problem) already.  When I'm confused on what to do, I make my list of all the weird things bugging me and I start calling people.  You'd be surprised how much they'll help you if you just make calls.  The COVD docs will email you through the COVD website.  I've had audiologists spend 10-15 minutes answering my questions.  Psychs and SLPs spend even longer.  Everyone I've called has tried to be helpful, and they'll usually listen and help you sort out if they're the right next step.  

 

 

[geodob]

You said that she has her sight words memorized, and also seems to know her numbers.

Though what she may have, is a difficulty with 'concept of letters'?

I have come across children with problem, where they can make sense of written words and numbers, as they represent something.

But when they look at a letter? 

What is a H ?

It is just a random symbol to represent a sound.

Which they try to make sense of?

Where it can be helpful to explain letters as symbols to represent sounds?

So that you could try talking with her about letters as symbols?

What symbol represents the sound B ?

[SandyKC]

Take into account everything OhElizabeth has said, particularly paying attention to developmental vision issues.  

Additionally, It is entirely possible for a child to have a deficit in phonemic awareness and no other learning disabilities.  However, given she can't even point out a "b" on the page, she may have a "naming" or "labeling" issue as well.  It may be a visual memory problem, or be specific to the randomness of the letters themselves.  Letters aren't tangible objects, so they can be more difficult for a child with LD's to categorize in their memory/recall.

 

If she was experiencing the same or similar issues with numbers and math, it'd more likely to be a more pervasive problem like a memory/recall issue for text-based objects.  However, since her ability to remember numbers and understand math is not a problem at all, I'd look more deeply into the possibility of true dyslexia, which is caused by a lack of phonemic awareness.

 

Whatever the case may be, it will be very difficult to determine precisely the right solution without a comprehensive evaluation to find out what the exact issues are.  We could all guess all day long, but we all may be wrong.  As OhE points out, the earlier you can start on intervention the better because only 15% of kids are in fact "late bloomers".  MOST of the time (85%), when a child struggles with a particular area of learning, there is an underlying neurological cause which will not be "outgrown".  

 

So, the sooner you can identify the root cause of your DD's difficulties, the sooner you can help her, and if nothing major is wrong, you'll at least know where you stand.  Unfortunately, getting the needed evaluations can take a lot of time (6 months+) depending upon how quickly you can find a highly qualified evaluator, get an appointment, get tested, and receive the results.  

[PeterPan]

Sandy, just for my trivia, where did you get the 15/85 numbers?  That's very interesting and makes sense.  Just wanted to know where they came from before I repeat it.  :D

[SandyKC]

Sandy, just for my trivia, where did you get the 15/85 numbers?  That's very interesting and makes sense.  Just wanted to know where they came from before I repeat it.   :D

Ohhhhh... I'll have to go looking for that reference!! I got it at a session at the International Dyslexia Association annual meeting over a decade ago.. I HAD the handouts with the research name info, but I don't know where it is at the moment (or if I even still have it!).

[PeterPan]

Ohhhhh... I'll have to go looking for that reference!! I got it at a session at the International Dyslexia Association annual meeting over a decade ago.. I HAD the handouts with the research name info, but I don't know where it is at the moment (or if I even still have it!).

That's good enough for me!!  Wow!  Really puts teeth behind the argument that the "late bloomer" thing is flawed...  It might work out for some people and be really disastrous for the rest.  People act like it's either/or, and your statistics are basically showing what common sense dictates, that both scenarios could happen.  Just means it's not wise to bank on it being one thing when it could be the other.

[SandyKC]

That's good enough for me!!  Wow!  Really puts teeth behind the argument that the "late bloomer" thing is flawed...  It might work out for some people and be really disastrous for the rest.  People act like it's either/or, and your statistics are basically showing what common sense dictates, that both scenarios could happen.  Just means it's not wise to bank on it being one thing when it could be the other.

I thought I'd go poking around for some of the research since I can't find my paper.. 

 

"In the simplest terms, these studies ask: Do struggling readers catch up? The data from the studies are clear: Late bloomers are rare; skill deficits are almost always what prevent children from blooming as readers. This research may be counter-intuitive to elementary teachers who have seen late-bloomers in their own classes or heard about them from colleagues. But statistically speaking, such students are rare. (Actually, as we'll see, there is nearly a 90 percent chance that a poor reader in first grade will remain a poor reader.)" (http://www.aft.org/newspubs/periodicals/ae/fall2004/editorssb1.cfm)

 

"The evidence is in: The children who we hoped would be "late bloomers" in reading rarely are. Their early and modest reading weakness impedes enjoyment and deters practice. Soon, their small reading problems spiral into devastating ones. But with new easy-to-use tools, we can identify children headed toward failure and prevent it as early as kindergarten. Children who are destined to be poor readers in fourth grade almost invariably have difficulties in kindergarten and first grade with critical phonological skills: their knowledge of letter names, their phonemic awareness (ability to hear, distinguish, and blend individual sounds), their ability to match sound to print, and their other skills in using the alphabetic principle are weak." (http://www.ncld.org/checklist/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273%3Apreventing-early-reading-failure-and-its-devastating-downward-spiral-&catid=75&Itemid=311&lang=en)

 

Hope that helps! :-D

[PeterPan]

I thought I'd go poking around for some of the research since I can't find my paper.. 

 

"In the simplest terms, these studies ask: Do struggling readers catch up? The data from the studies are clear: Late bloomers are rare; skill deficits are almost always what prevent children from blooming as readers. This research may be counter-intuitive to elementary teachers who have seen late-bloomers in their own classes or heard about them from colleagues. But statistically speaking, such students are rare. (Actually, as we'll see, there is nearly a 90 percent chance that a poor reader in first grade will remain a poor reader.)" (http://www.aft.org/newspubs/periodicals/ae/fall2004/editorssb1.cfm)

 

"The evidence is in: The children who we hoped would be "late bloomers" in reading rarely are. Their early and modest reading weakness impedes enjoyment and deters practice. Soon, their small reading problems spiral into devastating ones. But with new easy-to-use tools, we can identify children headed toward failure and prevent it as early as kindergarten. Children who are destined to be poor readers in fourth grade almost invariably have difficulties in kindergarten and first grade with critical phonological skills: their knowledge of letter names, their phonemic awareness (ability to hear, distinguish, and blend individual sounds), their ability to match sound to print, and their other skills in using the alphabetic principle are weak." (http://www.ncld.org/checklist/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273%3Apreventing-early-reading-failure-and-its-devastating-downward-spiral-&catid=75&Itemid=311&lang=en)

 

Hope that helps! :-D

I wish that "prevent it as early as kindergarten" were as easy as they make it sound.  :(

[SandyKC]

I wish that "prevent it as early as kindergarten" were as easy as they make it sound.   :(

AMEN THAT!! I don't know of ANY school that moves on that dime.  Parents are lucky if administrators even acknowledge there is a problem in Kindergarten.  That "wait and see if they outgrow it" mindset is pervasive.