is something wrong with my three year old?

[Student Mommie]

Sigh.  I guess I'm getting everything out of my worried brain on this forum, after being so gently nurtured and guided on these forums with amazing actionable advice.  I hope I don't get written off as a troll here.  This is going to sound strange since my daughter is only three.  But I'm wondering if anyone has experience with bipolar in young kids or noticed OCD in very young kids?  I never in a million years would have suspected that my 3.5 year old was anything but neuro-typical or would give me any reason to have to research or look into anything related to her.  She has always been a healthy sweet-tempered affectionate child, reaching milestones exactly on time, very social and playful, never giving me anything to be concerned about.  After worrying so much about her brother and seeing non-typical development, she was a huge relief.  And unfortunately, since she is "easy" she has been a bit neglected because her older brother always needs SO. MUCH. of my time and energy.  I try to be fair, but in practice sometimes the loud sensitive one gets the attention.  (She certainly gets most of the affection, though, because she warmly welcomes it whereas big brother is more sensory avoidant for physical affection.)

 

Yes, she has always had a hint of rigidity, where she likes things just so, and loves her routines even saying the routine words in a formulaic way like when i leave her at preschool.  But totally in the range of normal, I figured she'd just end up an excellent housekeeper and maybe teach her mom a few things on orderliness ;).  

 

Except that recently she has been acting strange and I'm wondering if I need to be concerned about this.  Her personality is in fact totally different from her baby personality, and it's just taken me awhile to realize she has transformed.

 

First of all, she started rejecting me these recent months.  From being a snuggly love bug her entire life, now she runs off into a room by herself to calm herself down (yes!  She puts herself in time out to freak out!), and she will frequently tell me she doesn't want me at all and instead wants grandma or dad and refuses any hugs.  I don't know why she seems as if she is no longer attached to me, it's so bizarre, it's not just when she's tantruming.  I must admit, I'm so surprised about all this that I'm not teaching her not to do it, or guiding her that it would hurt someone's (my) feelings, or trying to coach her away from it in any way.  I guess I am letting it unfold to see where this leads.

 

Second of all, she gets "stuck" when she is in a meltdown/tantrum.  She keeps repeating the same thing over and over, and it usually doesn't make any logical sense.  I can't explain it, but I haven't seen something like this before in her brother's tantrums where it's just like she's stuck in a different world.  I cannot snap her out of it.  This is really the symptom that made me think there might be something more going on here.  ***************It really freaks me out-- has anyone ever experienced this bizarre behavior?*****************

 

She definitely gets scared of gore and stuff.  She is terrified of her body bleeding.  As she is falling asleep at night she suddenly remembers every scary thing she's ever heard of, like skeletons coming for her, and bleeding, etc.

 

She has also been grumpy/irritable for over half a year now, but I had chalked that up with her usually not being able to settle down for a nap.  (She does sleep excellently at night, 11 hours+-- and if she does nap, she ends up not able to sleep until very late, even if a very short nap.)  Yet even after a long night's sleep and her awakening NATURALLY not forced awake, she always needs tons of time to slowly get up and adjust to the day, and even after that she is STILL irritable.

 

I think she is too young for me to be concerned.  Even if this is similar to what older diagnosed kids experienced at her age, we still cannot predict the future and she could have a healthy trajectory.  I guess I just need to hear someone else tell me this, because I don't want to neglect my daughter just because my son has so many "loud" issues that need my attention :(

[MistiDelaney]

<hugs>  All of that sounds scary to live through, superlotto. 

 

I think I would ask her pediatrician.

[wapiti]

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[Lecka]

The repeating of a phrase might be scripting or echolalia.  If it is -- do not worry like it is creepy.  It is really not.  

 

My younger son used to say "I knocked over a building" at random times and repeatedly, and I wondered if it was creepy, but it also didn't seem creepy.  Just -- why would he say it?  

 

Now, he does have an autism diagnosis, but there are other things where kids might do it besides autism.  Or, it could be nothing, too.  

 

But don't worry that it is creepy.

 

I have seen a few different explanations.  One, is that she might be having trouble thinking of words to express herself while she is upset.  Her language may just go down when she is upset or stressed out.  Two, she might associate that phrase with the context of the time she heard it, and she thinks that you share that context with her, and understand what she means.  Three, she could find it calming in some way, and be trying to calm down.  

 

I think there are more.  

 

My son has not done it since "I knocked down a building" and I think he meant "I did something really cool" or "this is cool."  Maybe his brother said it really excitedly once when he was playing, and my son thought saying that meant "this is exciting, this is cool, this is something to pay attention to."  I don't know -- but it is possible I think.  

 

I do not really know besides that -- I am more just saying, that is probably not creepy.  

 

I do not know much about it since my son does not do it anymore, and has not since that one phase... but from what I read it is often an attempt at communication or at calming down.  There is probably more but that is what sticks in my mind.   

 

I agree to check with the pediatrician, too.  I think there are so many possibilities, including "no cause for concern."  But it is something to ask about, too.  And hope to find helpful information from the pediatrician.

 

I thought PANDAS was getting more accepted, too, I am sorry to hear there is not a physician in your area :(

 

Separately -- the "I don't want you, I want the other person" is something I have seen with my daughter and all my nieces at this age.  It is very attention-seeking.  They do it to the person who will make a show of being upset.  I have heard of other kids this age suddenly wanting their Dad, when as baby/toddlers they insisted on Mom.  I think it is something where, of course it hurts your feelings, but it might be one of those kid things.  What we always tell grandpa -- of course she loves you, it is just a phase she is having, and she likes the chance to see that you really care about her b/c she sees you are upset.  She is just old enough to realize she can make someone be upset through her actions.  

 

If that was all you mentioned I would not worry at all, even though it is not pleasant to go through.  

 

I have not gotten too much, but my 5 1/2 daughter has told me she doesn't want me.  But with her -- it is such a ploy b/c I have not let her get her way, and she is seeing if she can say that and then have me relent.  She is just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.  But it is like -- it is just that context.  At bedtime she does want me, when she has a boo boo she does want me.  (Not necessarily preferentially if my mom is around, b/c she does favor my mom the most right now, but if my mom was not visiting she would want me.)   

 

But if you feel like it is a worry, like it is more than that thing that a lot of pre-school girls do, then DON'T let the pediatrician blow you off.  Let him/her know you think it is more than that and you are concerned.  But if you are not so worried, let the pediatrician put your mind at ease.  I know it is hard to tell the difference, lol.  I think -- err on the side of concern.  That is my personal experience, my son has an autism diagnosis now.  For someone who ended up with not having anything like that, their experience may be -- err on the side of not worrying.  I think it is hard to say what is better.  

 

Edit:  The line I take is -- "your body your choice" if you don't want a hug.  But there is a way to be polite about it.  

[Crimson Wife]

A course of high-dose probiotics would be a good idea to see if that helps any. If you're comfortable giving a rectal suppository, that's actually one of the best ways to do probiotics since it goes directly into the colon and bypasses the stomach. Epsom salt baths help with die-off symptoms.

 

Inositol is supposed to be good for OCD.

[wapiti]

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[Crimson Wife]

Youngest DD doesn't swallow pills either. So when we do probiotics, I generally give Inner Eco Coconut Kefir: http://www.inner-eco.com/

 

The very first course we did, I used a rectal suppository. I waited until she fell asleep and then inserted it (she's a sound sleeper and it never woke her up).

 

Our biomed dr. recommends Klaire Labs Therbiotic powder, but it's very expensive compared to the Inner Eco.

[wapiti]

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[sbgrace]

We used to order Klaire from Prothera. They shipped on ice.

 

OP, it's worth mentioning to the pediatrician I think.

When my son's OCD was severe, it really affected sleep. OCD is often worse at night. I can't tell if this might be that or not!

 

What does she do or say in response to the fears? Does she seek reassurances from you with repeated questions or similar? Are her repeated words to deal with anxiety? Do you see things like that at night?

 

While less common in girls than boys at younger ages, OCD can certainly show up that young. Is there any OCD history in the family?

 

If she sleeps long enough but still seems unrested, you might think about a sleep study. I think any child who snores should have a sleep study. My son had apnea, and I had no clue. 

 

 

 

 

[Student Mommie]

I appreciate all these responses!  They sure helped me calm down.  I am going to come back and revisit this thread in a few weeks and see what ideas are still relevant.  (And also I'm going to watch her sleeping to see if there is snoring or apnea.)

 

For now I've decided to assume that I am the one creating these symptoms and she does not have anything off with her.  (Sigh.  I know that sounds like I'm just self-blaming-- but hey, sometimes it really is the mom, lol, especially a mom who has been busy with another child.)  I am going to give her lots more attention and kindness these days, combined with "not allowing" tantrums by catching her very early before she unravels and getting her off the tantrum track with smart and firm ways of intervening, pre-emptively avoiding her fears by doing our go-away-monsters-and-skeletons-and-blood stuff, injecting her with some energy when she seems tired, and see what happens.