how to have a daily rhythm with a hyper focusing kid who can't transition?

[Student Mommie]

Hello ladies,

 

Hope you can offer some advice to me on how to deal with my 7-year-old son who is very difficult to transition when he gets enamored by some activity.  He has dyslexia, dyscalculia, seems like a classic ADHD, and has a touch of ASD type tendencies (like competitiveness and difficulty with transitions).  This will be our first year homeschooling.

 

He really needs to be homeschooling.  Remediate the learning disabilities, get him a solid education (as much as is possible with his learning differences), figure out what he is really good at so he can take flight.  But he is a huge extrovert and needs tons of social opportunities!  I am planning to sign up for 4H, a homeschooler park day, maybe a two day co-op if it's close enough.  

 

Here's the main problem.  I cannot really direct my child.  In this way he is kind of autistic/adhdish-- when he gets into an activity, he loses interest in everything else and is extremely motivated to continue that activity no matter what.  EXTREMELY motivated, it's like the rest of the world disappears.  I have spent YEARS trying to "discipline" this out of him but i have finally realized it's some brain difference and i've been on a fool's quest.  This has crippled our routines his entire life.  Every time i want to do something regular like "read alouds at 7pm" it ends up being hijacked by some activity he doesn't want to stop which I allow to stretch to bedtime because he is not interested anyway in the read alouds any more (although ordinarily he LOVES such things) so I see no point in reading to someone who isn't listening or engaged.  (And no, he didn't just adopt this behavior in order to manipulate me and get what he wants-- he truly hyper focuses and cannot disengage his brain easily.)  He has been like this since toddlerhood-- he used to play with play dough for a full day (but only every several weeks, otherwise it would bore him)!!  Playdates were a nightmare because his friends were quickly ready to move on to new activities but he wanted to keep playing whatever they were playing!  Sometimes when I force him to change,  after a bit he finally gets intrigued by the new thing, and then we are back to square one where he becomes "addicted" to that latest activity which he then does not want to quit.  I mean don't get me wrong, i think this level of persistence/interest is really very useful in adult life, especially fields like science etc.  But it sure makes it hard to have a family life rhythm or any kind of schedule.

 

Help!!

 

[sbgrace]

My son hyperfocuses too. I used to set a timer (there is a bomb timer that explodes when the time is up free online, he liked that one). It helps some to say you have this much time until....

 

The other thing that helps here is to have a set routine.  When I have my act together to start first thing, before he can start anything else, it goes better. When he gets everything necessary done, he gets to get on the computer to read his documents (about his special interest) and/or write his stories.

 

My son will leave his activity in body if I tell him he has to. He just doesn't leave the hyperfocus in his mind. So he's not really fully there with me. In other words, none of that entirely solves the problem here. I'll be watching your thread for ideas!

[kiwi mum]

A timer really helped for us too. He honestly had no idea how much time had passed when he was hyperfocused, so it seemed to him like I was always the meany getting him to stop "so soon". For some reason he didn't have such a problem with the timer telling him to stop and it also helped him to get a better sense of time - what does five minutes feel like, what does thirty minutes feel like.

 

For us, it has really improved with age but I must say that age seven to nine was absolutely the worst (sorry!) The other thing that was important for us was schoolwork first before any freetime activities. He just could not switch back after going into free time mode. We had a list for each day of what needed to be accomplished and used the timer for that too so it didn't feel like things were taking forever. Each item was crossed off the list as it was completed so he could see what was left to do.

 

I can't think at the moment of anything else we did that helped, but I think these two were the most important,

[Student Mommie]

Thanks for the interesting ideas and insights!  SBgrace exactly, his mind d ors not transition even if his body does.  He will continue to be so excited about the last topic that he is not really engaged in the next thing at all.  I just saw this yesterday.  He had been doing origami and was so excited by it.  Then we were in the car and I put on an audio CD, something about scientists that he was just LOVING previously.  He could not listen to it, he was just imagining more origami!

 

I have thought of something drastic.  Which does not at all address he issue i discussed above, but would address the fact that I cannot really stick to a routine or do anything regular on a daily basis due to my own limitations.  ......Medicating myself.  I am really not comfortable medicating HIM for many reasons... but I just realized that it's been YEARS and i still have not been able to provide him with any kind of consistency and structure despite my regular attempts and desire.  So the result is that I am not addressing his ADHD either behaviorally or with pharmaceuticals.  Clearly he got his ADHD symptoms from me!  Maybe if I medicate myself I will be able to give him what HE needs to thrive... hmmm... weird.... I wonder if docs would even give me a diagnosis since I pretty much function fine, did exceptionally well in school despite being a scatterbrained absentminded type, and just want to do it so i can function as a parent better...

[kbutton]

Thanks for the interesting ideas and insights!  SBgrace exactly, his mind d ors not transition even if his body does.  He will continue to be so excited about the last topic that he is not really engaged in the next thing at all.  I just saw this yesterday.  He had been doing origami and was so excited by it.  Then we were in the car and I put on an audio CD, something about scientists that he was just LOVING previously.  He could not listen to it, he was just imagining more origami!

 

I have thought of something drastic.  Which does not at all address he issue i discussed above, but would address the fact that I cannot really stick to a routine or do anything regular on a daily basis due to my own limitations.  ......Medicating myself.  I am really not comfortable medicating HIM for many reasons... but I just realized that it's been YEARS and i still have not been able to provide him with any kind of consistency and structure despite my regular attempts and desire.  So the result is that I am not addressing his ADHD either behaviorally or with pharmaceuticals.  Clearly he got his ADHD symptoms from me!  Maybe if I medicate myself I will be able to give him what HE needs to thrive... hmmm... weird.... I wonder if docs would even give me a diagnosis since I pretty much function fine, did exceptionally well in school despite being a scatterbrained absentminded type, and just want to do it so i can function as a parent better...

 

Could you give him a warning timer that tells him he needs to stop, and a timer (maybe 3 minutes later) that tells him to start the next thing? Maybe in between he could come up with a routine to close the mental door on the first one and open it to the next activity. It would take time for him to learn how to do this.

 

About your own structure--you sound like a wonderful parent. I am pretty sure I don't have ADHD, but I do struggle with routines in the sense that I've only ever used them on an "as needed" basis, and my husband's work schedule is really the antithesis of something that encourages routines and stability. I really struggle with the idea that I have to change something so significant about my own preferences to help the 3 other family members that have executive functioning weaknesses, so I think it's wonderful that you are willing to consider whether this would help out. Good for you!

 

[PeterPan]

Superlotto, you can have transition issues and perseverations/fixations with both labels (adhd and autism).  I'll be a little weird here and ask why you're transitioning him off something he was into?  In the examples you game, I would have left him alone, as in let him do what he was into.  Transitioning over to the audio cd didn't matter, etc. etc.  Some transitions MATTER and some YOU could flex on.  So that would be one angle, to see where you can be more flexible and let him continue with his interest.

 

For us, the timers (which we us a LOT!!!) and limits work ONLY if they're started BEFORE the activity.  You can't just come up midstream and say now I'm going to set a timer.  With a dc that young, you can still remove his ability to make things happen without asking.  For instance we put locks on our devices (iPad, phone, etc.).  We change the codes enough that he doesn't know them and can't get in without asking.  That allows us to control them and specify the timer before he starts.  If you have the amazon fire tv, you can actually passcode it so he can't even get into it without a code.  Mac (and maybe windows?) computers have timers and the ability to create users and password locks.  So see if you can use parental controls to create structure around some of the most problematic things.  The rest, see if you can be flexible on.  

 

I have a friend who tells me one of the best things she did with her spectrum dc over the years was spend lots of time TALKING about flexibility and MODELING flexibility.  It wasn't like this either/or, yes/no, got it now kind of thing.  It was slowly exploring the concept of flexibility from lots of angles over lots of years to build the idea in the dc's mind.  I just had a thread on flexibility, so you could search for it.  

 

I can see now why you're concerned in your other thread about spectrum.  Was that adhd label from a ped or a psychologist doing a full eval?  Sometimes adhd meds help and sometimes they don't.  It might be better to get the full eval for your ds, see what's going on, then approach it.  

 

EF (executive function) is in a portion of the brain, and you can do all kinds of things to target it.  There's the Executive Function Training Workbooks you can buy from Linguisystems.  There's a book Unstuck and On Target that I probably need to break down and buy.  Interactive Metronome or metronome work you do yourself for free using heathermomster's instructions here on the board will target EF.  You can add in digit spans and get some working memory benefit too!  Neurofeedback is considered a tier 1 intervention for adhd and as effective as meds.  I haven't used it, but there are some alternatives to neurofeedback like Play Attention.  

 

Another suggestion.  Sometimes when a person can't create structure for themselves, what they need to do is hem themselves in with structure.  For instance you could sign up for some kind of lessons twice a week, and then  you start to get some end points to your day, things that keep you on track.  Or start going to the library read aloud program every week.  Or a homeschool gymnastics class.  Does he have social issues?  If he does, a co-op may or may not work out well.  I signed my ds up for daily activities at the Y this summer, because frankly *I* do better with something hemming me in.  I'm not one to create internal structure for myself.  I never could get dd to bed at a consistent time, that kind of thing.  I can dream up the plan, but dh is the one who gets stuck implementing it.  

 

I also think, and this is a total rabbit trail, that sometimes when we say we're no good at creating structure and routines, what we mean is we have this big, perfectionist vision of what we want to accomplish and we CAN'T DO IT.  So then we feel like a failure.  What if your goal was not structure from 9 am to 2 pm with 7 glorious subjects happening and the kitchen clean and dinner on?  What if your structure was just 1 hour of something together selected from the bins and then after that you don't give a rip what he hyper focuses on?  And what if it was that you knew after lunch you started looking at what your plan is for dinner?  Kwim?  Like less points, less attempt at structure/routine, less chances for it to go wrong because of him being into something.  Success is all you need, little successes that you can actually manage.  

[Student Mommie]

Wow, lots of great ideas from everyone.

 

The thing about timers is that they make him anxious.  At school, the teacher used to use those Time Timers for their free play time.  She stopped using it, one of the reasons is that my child got extremely anxious from it.

 

I really like the idea of timers on electronics.  I am planning to do a couple things on the computer next school year.  For math and reading practice.  It would be great for him to know that it would automatically stop after his allotted time.  

 

I hear you on the hemming yourself in for structure.  The problem I have with this is that I panic about the deadlines.  It is so stressful and I start yelling at the kids in order to not be late.  I am so much happier without any appointments to remember.  Not that this will ever happen on a continuous basis.

 

This child is severely dyslexic.  He needs some structure to do the intensity of remediation that he needs in order to ever be able to access print.  

 

But as for routines that I'm talking about, honestly I don't have any kind of huge perfect vision.  I don't have the space to think big yet  because I don't even have regular lunch time... etc.  I am really starting to panic for him, though, because he has learning disabilities so he needs like ten times as much work as a regular kid in order to be at grade level.  I have totally dropped the ball with him.  And then on top of that, he needs extra stuff I need to do with him for social skills, character, etc.  

 

So we need basic barebones routines like get dressed when you wake up BEFORE starting to play, etc.  It takes soooo much work to establish a basic routine for him-- and when he has the routine, that's the only time he does not whine and complain and EXHAUST me with his rigidity and resistance.  So routines are golden-- except that if i slack for JUST ONE DAY, get distracted by his younger sister or I am just spacing out or whatever, then i LOSE the entire routine for him and it is back to square one.

 

 

 

Superlotto, you can have transition issues and perseverations/fixations with both labels (adhd and autism).  I'll be a little weird here and ask why you're transitioning him off something he was into?  In the examples you game, I would have left him alone, as in let him do what he was into.  Transitioning over to the audio cd didn't matter, etc. etc.  Some transitions MATTER and some YOU could flex on.  So that would be one angle, to see where you can be more flexible and let him continue with his interest.

 

For us, the timers (which we us a LOT!!!) and limits work ONLY if they're started BEFORE the activity.  You can't just come up midstream and say now I'm going to set a timer.  With a dc that young, you can still remove his ability to make things happen without asking.  For instance we put locks on our devices (iPad, phone, etc.).  We change the codes enough that he doesn't know them and can't get in without asking.  That allows us to control them and specify the timer before he starts.  If you have the amazon fire tv, you can actually passcode it so he can't even get into it without a code.  Mac (and maybe windows?) computers have timers and the ability to create users and password locks.  So see if you can use parental controls to create structure around some of the most problematic things.  The rest, see if you can be flexible on.  

 

I have a friend who tells me one of the best things she did with her spectrum dc over the years was spend lots of time TALKING about flexibility and MODELING flexibility.  It wasn't like this either/or, yes/no, got it now kind of thing.  It was slowly exploring the concept of flexibility from lots of angles over lots of years to build the idea in the dc's mind.  I just had a thread on flexibility, so you could search for it.  

 

I can see now why you're concerned in your other thread about spectrum.  Was that adhd label from a ped or a psychologist doing a full eval?  Sometimes adhd meds help and sometimes they don't.  It might be better to get the full eval for your ds, see what's going on, then approach it.  

 

EF (executive function) is in a portion of the brain, and you can do all kinds of things to target it.  There's the Executive Function Training Workbooks you can buy from Linguisystems.  There's a book Unstuck and On Target that I probably need to break down and buy.  Interactive Metronome or metronome work you do yourself for free using heathermomster's instructions here on the board will target EF.  You can add in digit spans and get some working memory benefit too!  Neurofeedback is considered a tier 1 intervention for adhd and as effective as meds.  I haven't used it, but there are some alternatives to neurofeedback like Play Attention.  

 

Another suggestion.  Sometimes when a person can't create structure for themselves, what they need to do is hem themselves in with structure.  For instance you could sign up for some kind of lessons twice a week, and then  you start to get some end points to your day, things that keep you on track.  Or start going to the library read aloud program every week.  Or a homeschool gymnastics class.  Does he have social issues?  If he does, a co-op may or may not work out well.  I signed my ds up for daily activities at the Y this summer, because frankly *I* do better with something hemming me in.  I'm not one to create internal structure for myself.  I never could get dd to bed at a consistent time, that kind of thing.  I can dream up the plan, but dh is the one who gets stuck implementing it.  

 

I also think, and this is a total rabbit trail, that sometimes when we say we're no good at creating structure and routines, what we mean is we have this big, perfectionist vision of what we want to accomplish and we CAN'T DO IT.  So then we feel like a failure.  What if your goal was not structure from 9 am to 2 pm with 7 glorious subjects happening and the kitchen clean and dinner on?  What if your structure was just 1 hour of something together selected from the bins and then after that you don't give a rip what he hyper focuses on?  And what if it was that you knew after lunch you started looking at what your plan is for dinner?  Kwim?  Like less points, less attempt at structure/routine, less chances for it to go wrong because of him being into something.  Success is all you need, little successes that you can actually manage.  

 

[PeterPan]

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