What's next after accelerated Singapore Math

[MamaSprout]

If you've had elementary dc move through multiple levels of Singapore Primary Math in a year, what happened next? How much did they slow down going into PreA/ DM7?

 

DD is starting DM7 this fall, and I'm debating pacing and if I should only order 7a for this year.

 

If you have used Discovering Maths with a young student, how much of the text did you cover? Did you use the workbook- would it be overkill with daily Alcumus? She's never liked the CWP books, but did like the IP's. We also do MOEMS books weekly.

 

ETA: She's done through PreA Chapter 4 in Alcumus and the first three chapters of Dolciani this year, so I guess the question mostly applies to Singapore Discovering Maths textbook and workbook.

 

Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

DD took 3 semesters going year-round to get through DM 7 with the workbook + Horizons Pre-Algebra + PM IP 6. But I still didn't feel she had totally mastered all the pre-algebra topics so we did a quick run-through of selected topics from MEP Yrs. 7-9 using the "express" (honors) track. I gave her the pre-tests and she just did the topics where she made conceptual rather than calculation errors.

 

We started DM 8A this semester but DD hit a wall with the chapter on multiplying polynomials/FOIL. We tried some of the other books I have on my shelf (Lial, Larson, LOF, etc.) but it became clear to me that she didn't understand the concept. So I decided to shelve it and move to a consumer math text (Larson's "Math and You"). We'll try again in the fall and I'm considering getting the Arbor Center "Chuckles the Rocket Dog" book to see if that presentation is any easier for her to understand.

[EKS]

My son finished 6A in 3rd grade and we decided that was enough of Singapore math.  He did Derek Owens prealgebra course the next year at a somewhat accelerated pace (I think he finished in 5-6 months), then the next year he did Algebra I at a b&m school at the normal pace (sort of--the first guy who taught it was incompetent and went at half speed for 3/4 of the year then they got a different teacher and she went at double speed for the last 1/4 of the year).  He did geometry with me this year at the normal speed.

 

My son isn't in love with math though.  If he were, we'd probably still be moving just as quickly as we were in grades 1-3.

[MamaSprout]

My son finished 6A in 3rd grade and we decided that was enough of Singapore math.  He did Derek Owens prealgebra course the next year at a somewhat accelerated pace (I think he finished in 5-6 months), then the next year he did Algebra I at a b&m school at the normal pace (sort of--the first guy who taught it was incompetent and went at half speed for 3/4 of the year then they got a different teacher and she went at double speed for the last 1/4 of the year).  He did geometry with me this year at the normal speed.

 

My son isn't in love with math though.  If he were, we'd probably still be moving just as quickly as we were in grades 1-3.

 

Derek Owens is sort of my second choice- mostly because I think we'd have lots of time for "extras", which is what she likes. I'm not sure I want to be tied to the videos because she's done some PreA already. Is it easy to accelerate?

[EKS]

Derek Owens is sort of my second choice- mostly because I think we'd have lots of time for "extras", which is what she likes. I'm not sure I want to be tied to the videos because she's done some PreA already. Is it easy to accelerate?

 

It is easy to accelerate.  I had my son listen to the videos where Mr Owens introduced a new concept and then instead of watching him work all of the examples, I had my son do them orally while I wrote everything down in the notes.  Then my son did the practice problems on his own.

 

That may not seem like it would speed things up much, but the videos can take a *long* time to watch.

 

[Dmmetler]

Well, my DD went from doing SM from 1A-5B in under 2 years to doing Pre-algebra/algebra 1 over 2 years so far and going into a 3rd year now of Algebra 1 with some algebra 2 content. Having said that, her first year was LOF PA 1/2 and Key to Algebra, last year was AOPS PA with LOF Beginning Algebra, and this year is AOPS Introduction to Algebra with LOF Advanced Algebra and LOF Geometry. (and I'm kind of HOPING this last takes 2 years).

 

So in our case, the multi-levels per year acceleration stopped when she no longer needed to push through multiple books to get the challenge she needs.

 

We didn't look at DM because DD really, really wanted a math book with "Algebra" on the cover, not "7".

 

 

[MamaSprout]

She does want to stay with Singapore. I'm not sure where/ how to "exit" Singapore. By age, she could finish DM series by high school... and I don't think there is enough support material for me to teach her through DM4/ Additional Maths. I guess I could hire a tutor.

[Tsutsie]

My son (9) slowed down a fair bit when he started DM7a. An single exercise will now take 2 - 3 days, instead of 1 or 2 exercises a day as with Singapore Primary. I also find that his little-guy-style ability to pay attention to detail is slowing his way down, even though he conceptually understands the concepts. (Forgetting to sign negative numbers, fractions not written neatly enough and then morphing into something completely different, etc.)

 

DM has been a good transition for us from SM. I'm guessing it will take us 3 semesters to finish 2 books. 

[MamaSprout]

I think will plan on just 7a this year to give us time to dig deep if needed. That way we can do problem solving and contest prep books, too.

[Sbeverid]

Try Stanford University's EPGY program.  It goes through college math.  It is a full curriculum, self paced and well done.

[MamaSprout]

Try Stanford University's EPGY program.  It goes through college math.  It is a full curriculum, self paced and well done.

 

I've thought about it. We tried it 2 years ago and she didn't especially like it, but she didn't like anything at that time. Have the format changes they announced happened yet?

 

Thanks!

[lewelma]

DD took 3 semesters going year-round to get through DM 7 with the workbook + Horizons Pre-Algebra + PM IP 6. But I still didn't feel she had totally mastered all the pre-algebra topics so we did a quick run-through of selected topics from MEP Yrs. 7-9 using the "express" (honors) track.

 

Wow!  Our kids are twins .  My younger has just started DM7 with the workbook and the PM IP6, and it will definitely take us 6 10-week terms (1.5 years), because I just am not seeing him mastering the idea of showing the work -- not showing *his* work, but *the* work.  I tutor algebra, and I know the trouble kids can get into if they are still using the approach of  jot-down-my-calculations-in -whatever- crazy-way-they-come-out-of-my-head, rather than writing a full equation for the numbers in the word problem and then working it out algebraically.  That is what we are using PM IP6 for.  I am getting him to apply the algebraic reasoning he is learning in DM7 to the difficult word problems in IP6.  In addition, there is a LOT of material in the DM7 workbook that is not in the textbook.  Given that my ds is young (we are only half way through the year here), we have time, and I want him to be working at a very high conceptual level rather than breezing through math at an algorithmic level.  So we are doing most of the extension work in the workbook which is very time consuming.

 

We have also spent some time doing MEP year 8, as a way of doing some fun topics that are not in DM.

 

Happy to answer questions.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

  I tutor algebra, and I know the trouble kids can get into if they are still using the approach of  jot-down-my-calculations-in -whatever- crazy-way-they-come-out-of-my-head, rather than writing a full equation for the numbers in the word problem and then working it out algebraically.  

 

Any tips on how to do this?  I loved writing down everything in a neat and organized way but dd is the exact opposite.  Getting her to write anything, let alone in an organized way, is not easy.  And when she talks about the calculations she is doing in her head it is often hard to follow.

[lewelma]

Any tips on how to do this?  I loved writing down everything in a neat and organized way but dd is the exact opposite.  Getting her to write anything, let alone in an organized way, is not easy.  And when she talks about the calculations she is doing in her head it is often hard to follow.

 

I am training younger ds to try to get the entire calculation from the word problem written in one line (with order of operations brackets where required) using only the numbers given in the word problem.  And the first line should be a formula where available.

 

So for example, SM IP6 page 12: The figure is made up a quadrant and a semicircle.  Find the area of the shaded part

(so it looks like a 1/4 circle with a semicircle taken out of it. In the diagram, the radius of the 1/4 circle is 4, which is the diameter of the semicircle in it) 

 

I am looking for:

 

Line 1: Area = 1/4 PI r^2 - 1/2 PI r^2   (formula as applied to this specific problem)

Line 2: Area = 1/4 PI 4^2 - 1/2 PI 2^2  (plug in exact numbers from the word problem, so no mental maths yet)

Line 3: Area = 12.56-6.28 (calculations, done any way desired (including in your head) as long as it is correct)

Line 4: Area = 6.28 cm^2 (answer with units)

 

(yes, you can do this problem in an easier way, but I am using it to teach algebraic reasoning)

 

The key is: you must use the numbers exactly as seen the in the problem.  And if you can, write it all in 1 equation. Also, I stress that he can do the *calculations* in any way he wants, just by jotting down some notes, or doing it in his head, or using a calculator etc.  But setting up the problem is a different thing, and the 'next level up.' (kids love that line, makes them feel advanced). 

 

This is incredibly difficult for my younger, but we just keep plugging away.  In the end, algebraic reasoning is not the same as algebraic manipulation.  It is very easy to manipulate if you know the rules, but the reasoning is way more difficult to master but also way more important.

 

Ruth in NZ

[pollyanna]

My 7yo finished SM5B a few months ago. I started 6A with her but she was tired of SM, so I let it go for now. She's working through BA now, which is review but also more challenging for her. DD is definitely not ready to move onto pre-algebra at this point, so we will go through BA at her pace, then probably do a  bit of logic, math games, and game theory. I encourage her to be more organized with her approaches to problem solving (in BA and in setting up science experiements) and that is a major thing she lacks for moving onto higher maths. We'll re-evaluate next summer if she'll be ready for pre-algebra. I'm in no rush!

[MamaSprout]

My 7yo finished SM5B a few months ago. I started 6A with her but she was tired of SM, so I let it go for now. She's working through BA now, which is review but also more challenging for her. DD is definitely not ready to move onto pre-algebra at this point, so we will go through BA at her pace, then probably do a  bit of logic, math games, and game theory. I encourage her to be more organized with her approaches to problem solving (in BA and in setting up science experiements) and that is a major thing she lacks for moving onto higher maths. We'll re-evaluate next summer if she'll be ready for pre-algebra. I'm in no rush!

 

Have you done any Dragon Box? Your dd might like it for some pre-pre algebra. My dd has done all three (most of a and b sides for the algebra ones), and it really has fueled an interest in learning higher math. (well that, and the murderous math books)

 

Dd likes the Beast books, she's actually done quite a bit of what's in them through other problem solving books.

We've been working through Alcumus a few minutes a day last school year, and she's about 1/2 way through the prealgebra problems. She's some of Dolciani PreA and MEP 7- she likes set theory. We sort of unschooled math until she was 7, and she's done Singapore in the last  year or so. I think she's ready to move on.

 

I tutored a student in PreA almost daily this last school year, and she sat across the table doing her own work, but sponged quite a bit of it. She has just "gotten" showing her work in the last few months.

 

We haven't done CWP (she prefers the puzzle-y problems), so I think I probably will need to take my time with the workbooks for DM. I have the HIGS from Singapore 5 Standards. We haven't done all of the enrichment problems in those, so I might do those, Russian Math 6 or IP 6 along-side DM 7a, and follow a semester behind with the workbook.

 

Thanks!

[kiwik]

I am training younger ds to try to get the entire calculation from the word problem written in one line (with order of operations brackets where required) using only the numbers given in the word problem. And the first line should be a formula where available.

 

So for example, SM IP6 page 12: The figure is made up a quadrant and a semicircle. Find the area of the shaded part

(so it looks like a 1/4 circle with a semicircle taken out of it. In the diagram, the radius of the 1/4 circle is 4, which is the diameter of the semicircle in it)

 

I am looking for:

 

Line 1: Area = 1/4 PI r^2 - 1/2 PI r^2 (formula as applied to this specific problem)

Line 2: Area = 1/4 PI 4^2 - 1/2 PI 2^2 (plug in exact numbers from the word problem, so no mental maths yet)

Line 3: Area = 12.56-6.28 (calculations, done any way desired (including in your head) as long as it is correct)

Line 4: Area = 6.28 cm^2 (answer with units)

 

(yes, you can do this problem in an easier way, but I am using it to teach algebraic reasoning)

 

The key is: you must use the numbers exactly as seen the in the problem. And if you can, write it all in 1 equation. Also, I stress that he can do the *calculations* in any way he wants, just by jotting down some notes, or doing it in his head, or using a calculator etc. But setting up the problem is a different thing, and the 'next level up.' (kids love that line, makes them feel advanced).

 

This is incredibly difficult for my younger, but we just keep plugging away. In the end, algebraic reasoning is not the same as algebraic manipulation. It is very easy to manipulate if you know the rules, but the reasoning is way more difficult to master but also way more important.

 

Ruth in NZ

Does it really use cm^2? I have never seen that, we always had to use mm^2 or m^2.