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Hello-I am new to this board, and my DS just turned 9 and we are just detecting that he has some learning challenges.  I could use some advice...  His doc didn't pick up on anything although I kept insisting something wasn't right with his writing.  He is still reversing some letters.  The confusing part is that he reads very fluently, way above grade level and has excellent comprehension, and is very articulate. He loves public speaking and excels at it.  However, he has lots of difficulty writing, with size and spacing, and reversals, etc.  He can do copy work, but for example, if he wants it to look like the model, I mostly have to be standing over him reminding him the entire time about size and to use his finger for spacing between words if it's going to look anything like the model at the end.  He hates it and complains that his hand tires easily, like after just a sentence or a small list of words.  He also has difficulty with spelling in that he mostly has no trouble with a lesson (we used All About Spelling last year), and getting the words correct w/in the lesson time, but remembering how to spell them later is hit or miss, mostly miss.  We started Spelling You See over the summer to see if that program might be a better fit, but it is too early to know if that is going to be the right fit for him.    Another issue he has is that sometimes he will just reverse the spelling of entire words, if he does not just misspell them, for example the contraction it's.  ti si, yet when he reads it back he will recognize it as being spelled correctly and read it as such.  Can someone have dyslexia and yet have no trouble with reading or learning to read?  

I pushed for a developmental evaluation w/ his doc, and she sent us to OT.  Had the evaluation a few weeks ago, so now waiting for a slot to open up to begin therapy.  Haven't been able to read the report yet to see what the evaluation revealed about why he's having difficulty.

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?  Are there any other evaluations I should be seeking for him, b/c his doc is really not a lot of help, but I think will be receptive if I ask for something specific?  

So, another question for all of you is, what are some good options regarding Language Arts?  Here's what I've tried that hasn't been a good fit.  FLL3, IDK if it isn't visual enough or not enough spiral, but he could do the stuff w/in the lesson but then not be able to recall it enough later.

Has anyone used CLE?  Pros/cons?   We used Shurley English last year, and while I liked it, and he learned the grammar basics well from it, he needs more instruction in just the basics of putting together handwriting and spelling with the grade level basics before we concentrate solely on grammar, I think.

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First, welcome to the boards!  As for your doc not detecting anything, they frequently are not trained to.  Our pediatrician is a nice lady but knew next to nothing about learning challenges.  She was useless for genuinely helping us determine what was happening.  Your best bet is to read up and get educated then keep seeking answers through professionals trained to help you get those answers.  

 

Your child sounds like he may have dysgraphia coupled with a possible vision issue and maybe other things as well.  Certainly stealth dyslexia might be on the table.  But I am not an expert.  You need an expert to help you find out what is going on.

 

I wouldn't be purchasing additional materials for teaching until you have a better idea of what you are dealing with.  What seems to be the most effective route for many is to get a developmental eye screening through a Developmental Optometrist and an evaluation through a neuropsychologist, among other things, including the OT eval you have already done.

 

Why a Developmental Optometrist and not a normal eye doctor?  Because you need to rule out developmental vision issues which frequently do not show up with a normal eye exam.  My DS10 has 20/15+ vision.  He has passed every eye exam ever administered.  But I finally pushed for a developmental vision screening through a Developmental Optometrist (NOT a standard optometrist or an ophthalmologist) just a few months ago and sure enough he has heterophoria (his left eye tracks just slightly out of alignment) which has caused difficulty with his reading and spelling.

 

A neuropsychologist will screen for a tremendous number of things, many of which you may not even have thought to ask about, and should be able to show you any hidden strengths as well as issues.  If you can find someone in your area that comes highly recommended by other parents, that might be a huge help in digging through and getting real answers and a bigger picture.

 

I think you would benefit from reading The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  It is a great starting off point for parents of kids that have difficulties but they aren't really sure what those difficulties are.  It was a huge help to me.  You might also read How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.

 

Gotta run but I am sure others will chime in.  In the meantime, read past posts on this board.  You may find a lot of useful info.  I hope I am making some sense.   :)  Best wishes.

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Yup, OT and a developmental vision eval.  COVD.org is where you find a developmental optometrist.  The eyes are controlled by muscles, so the glitches that are affecting his hands (low tone, retained primitive reflexes, whatever) also can affect the eyes.  He might have poor visual memory, which would cause the spelling problem.  The dev. optom. is how you sort that out.  Make sure you get feedback and get a good one, because they vary.

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Does he also have trouble with things like drawing, or copying a simple design that is not letter and word related? Or does this problem only apply to letters and words? What abut writing numbers? Can he type at all?

 

 

You might try doing "partnership writing" where you scribe for him to work on some composition skills at this time, and to the extent that you do spelling and writing you might also scribe for him. But I would delay work on spelling, grammar and penmanship until you figure out what the problem is (-ETA:  until you can read the report you haven't been able to as yet)--or until the OT starts and you can coordinate what is being done there with your home program.

 

I am not sure that I would look into additional evaluations until you get to see the report that has apparently already found something sufficient to refer him to OT.

 

But if you do, I'd agree that a visual check with a COVD makes sense, as well checking for dysgraphia and muscle weakness or coordination and fine motor skills difficulties.

 

And when you do read the report of the evaluation that was done, if you post here what it concludes is wrong, maybe people can suggest specific LA programs.

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Your child sounds like he may have dysgraphia coupled with a possible vision issue and maybe other things as well.  Certainly stealth dyslexia might be on the table.  But I am not an expert.  You need an expert to help you find out what is going on.

 

I agree whole-heartedly with EVERYting OneStep has said, particularly dysgraphia & possible developmental vision issues.  Since your DS can read, his difficulties seem more limited to the possibility of dysgraphia, visual-perception, and/or visual-motor integration issues.  Having an Occupational Therapist's evaluation is a great starting point to determine if your DS has a developmental coordination disorder (DCD) that is causing his dysgraphia or whether it is perhaps of a learning-disability origin.  Given that he can read, I'd lean towards a suspicion of developmental coordination rather than specific learning disabilities.

 

This is where evaluations are key to finding out what is really going on!!  If a child has dysgraphia due to a DCD, then it is treated entirely differently than if a child has difficulty with writing due to working memory, processing, or perception issues.  The only way to know which approach is the right one to take is to have the evaluations.  SO, given you're set up with an appointment, you're on track!

 

Also, even if the OT finds a DCD and needs to work with your son, I would still recommend finding a developmental optometrist through COVD.org because the reversals are an indication of a visual-perception issue.  It may be rooted in ocular motor issues, scotopic sensitivity or some other visual process, so there again.. you won't know without an evaluation.

 

GOOD LUCK! 

Let us know what it turns out to be.  Many of us have BTDT and might be able to help you with programs and ideas when you have solidly pinpointed your DS' specific issues. ;-)

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Thank you, SandyKC.  I received a copy of the OT report and it doesn't give a specific diagnosis but just indicates the various weakness areas that will be address through the course of OT.  There has also been a recommendation for speech and physical therapy evaluations.  I did not realize that speech therapy encompasses so much more than speaking/speech impediment therapy.   So much to learn on this journey, so glad for a forum like this with the support of other moms who have been there, have done/are doing that.  Patience is not my greatest strength, so the slow process of getting to the bottom of this frustrating at the moment.   I will update when I know more. 

Pen- I have tried typing a bit with him, and although he's been enthusiastic to learn, the doing is very frustrating for him, so we've shelved that option for the time being.  I agree w/ your suggestion on the partnership writing.  

 

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For typing, have you looked at Typing Pal or Type to Learn 4?  They are usually offered through Homeschool Buyer's Co-op for a discount.  The kids like Type to Learn 4 because you are a secret agent. I had the wpm reduced to 5 and accuracy reduced to 95% to keep frustration levels down and help them focus on finger accuracy without stressing out about the lesson.  TTL4 has typing games, too.  

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Pen- I have tried typing a bit with him, and although he's been enthusiastic to learn, the doing is very frustrating for him, so we've shelved that option for the time being.  I agree w/ your suggestion on the partnership writing.  

 

We had  typing programs that helped (Read Write Type from Talkingfingers.com and the Typing Instructor Platinum for kids)--but it may be that what you are seeing in your ds is that using his hands is hard for him, or perhaps you are seeing a visual issue.  ...or both

 

My son has a pretty specific dyslexia/dysgraphia, so writing letters and words is a problem, but drawing, typing, or doing other things with his hands is not particularly a problem. So with his dysgraphia typing is useful, or someday  maybe a voice recognition program needed yet, but I wanted him to have some ability without it for when needed, if possible.

 

By analyzing how global or specific your ds's problem is, you may get an idea of what direction to go in for more answers.

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Do any of you know anything about  Essential Learning Systems?  http://ldhope.com/abouteli/how-eli-works/   They had a booth at our local homeschool convention this spring, so that's how I learned of them.  

 

Pen- We tried typing instructor but it was not a good fit.    I will check into the other one you mentioned.  Sue Patrick (of the workbox system fame ;)), suggests a more unplugged approach for some kids, as in we work with an unplugged keyboard and paper on a stand in front of him first.  Maybe using a program like this one? http://www.christianbook.com/keyboarding-skills-diana-king/9780838825648/pd/8825648

 

Like you said, getting more information on what are the root causes is key and will help me take a more targeted approach w/choosing and prioritizing our school plan, vs. the (often frustrating for both him and me) shotgun approach I've been using thus far.    The puzzling thing is that he has no problem with memorization in certain areas, and in others it's all jumbled up.  For example, if he drilled the same set of math facts  5 days in a row, his scores would be all over the place vs. consistently gradually improving like one would expect from repeated practice. And yet, on the parts of a math lesson that I would consider to be more conceptual and challenging, things like geometric principles, mazes, reading computation and inference, things that require seemingly higher order critical thinking/mental rotation skills, he breezes through them.  I do suspect he has dysgraphia on some level, esp. now that I've learned what all it can look like, and I've also read that it rarely occurs w/out other issues, which makes sense in his case too.  

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Do any of you know anything about  Essential Learning Systems?  http://ldhope.com/abouteli/how-eli-works/   They had a booth at our local homeschool convention this spring, so that's how I learned of them.  

 

Pen- We tried typing instructor but it was not a good fit.    I will check into the other one you mentioned.  Sue Patrick (of the workbox system fame ;)), suggests a more unplugged approach for some kids, as in we work with an unplugged keyboard and paper on a stand in front of him first.  Maybe using a program like this one? http://www.christianbook.com/keyboarding-skills-diana-king/9780838825648/pd/8825648

 

Like you said, getting more information on what are the root causes is key and will help me take a more targeted approach w/choosing and prioritizing our school plan, vs. the (often frustrating for both him and me) shotgun approach I've been using thus far.    The puzzling thing is that he has no problem with memorization in certain areas, and in others it's all jumbled up.  For example, if he drilled the same set of math facts  5 days in a row, his scores would be all over the place vs. consistently gradually improving like one would expect from repeated practice. And yet, on the parts of a math lesson that I would consider to be more conceptual and challenging, things like geometric principles, mazes, reading computation and inference, things that require seemingly higher order critical thinking/mental rotation skills, he breezes through them.  I do suspect he has dysgraphia on some level, esp. now that I've learned what all it can look like, and I've also read that it rarely occurs w/out other issues, which makes sense in his case too.  

 

 

Diana Hanbury King works well for some.

 

I think too, that some people on here have gone to DVORAK rather than QWERTY keyboard layout--which I think possibly only Mavis Beacon has a program that fits that.

 

The math situation you describe is fairly common for some dyslexic individuals who tend to be better at higher order thinking.

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Diana Hanbury King works well for some.

 

I think too, that some people on here have gone to DVORAK rather than QWERTY keyboard layout--which I think possibly only Mavis Beacon has a program that fits that.

 

The math situation you describe is fairly common for some dyslexic individuals who tend to be better at higher order thinking.

For Dvorak, some people have found online tutorials.  We're using Talking Fingers, and it's just a small amount of trouble to tell him to use the alternate key.  The strengths of the program outweigh the slight hassle.  Just print a google image of the Dvorak layout and you're good to go.  Mavis Beacon for mac worked for my dd when she was older.

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Also, Pen and OhElizabeth, since you both said you use talking fingers…I watched the samples and like what I see, just wondering, will it still be age appropriate to start my son on it in the fall at 9?  Also, if so, how long do you typically spend on it in a day? does it go by start and completion of a lesson, or do you just have them work in it for a set amount of time, like 15 or 20 minutes a day? 

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Diana Hanbury King works well for some.

 

I think too, that some people on here have gone to DVORAK rather than QWERTY keyboard layout--which I think possibly only Mavis Beacon has a program that fits that.

 

The math situation you describe is fairly common for some dyslexic individuals who tend to be better at higher order thinking.

Pen- thank you for mentioning that about the math.  Through a google search I was able to come up with a number of suggestions on how to help the math facts stick.  I may do a separate post to find out what others have used and found to be worth their money.  

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Also, Pen and OhElizabeth, since you both said you use talking fingers…I watched the samples and like what I see, just wondering, will it still be age appropriate to start my son on it in the fall at 9?  Also, if so, how long do you typically spend on it in a day? does it go by start and completion of a lesson, or do you just have them work in it for a set amount of time, like 15 or 20 minutes a day? 

I think they do a free trial.  Sit him down now and start doing it and see what happens, kwim?  That's the only reason to know, and there's no real reason to wait.  Make it a summer/fun thing and pay (bribe) him with 49 cent cones at McDonalds.  Every day he types, he gets a cone.  :)

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Also, Pen and OhElizabeth, since you both said you use talking fingers…I watched the samples and like what I see, just wondering, will it still be age appropriate to start my son on it in the fall at 9?  Also, if so, how long do you typically spend on it in a day? does it go by start and completion of a lesson, or do you just have them work in it for a set amount of time, like 15 or 20 minutes a day? 

 

 

My son was 9 when he did it.   I don't recall how long, maybe a lesson or half an hour whichever came first?

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  • 1 month later...

so to update…we are still working through appointments to complete the battery of np tests, but what we do know is there are issues w/ visual and auditory memory, sensory processing.  so, I have been told that until we get farther down the road in OT and ST, we need to pretty much stick with teaching in a spiral manner as much as possible.  We have been doing CLE math and Spellingyousee this summer and those have both been working out well, so I will continue with those.  I am thinking I need to go with Shurley english for him b/c of the high amount of spiral and repetition.  Anyone w/ experience using shurley 3 that can comment on if it is lacking anything for the grade level lang. arts skills that I should be aware of?  thanks! 


 

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  • 1 month later...

Not sure if I should create a new topic or just keep adding here, let me know please, b/c I'll looking for some advice from other moms that have been there, done that.  We finished all of the NP testing and the frustrating thing is that I feel like they just left me on my own to figure out what to do next.  The level of non-support from the "professionals" involved is very frustrating, to say the least.  

 

I am told the testing indicates a type of dyslexia that tester said they "really don't have a name for" and that it only affects the spelling, not reading, which does make sense w/ what I see in DS's academic performance.  He knows all of his phonics, can decode and read whatever he wants, not a problem, it's when it comes to encoding, where the disconnect happens.   Additionally, he can form complex sentence structures for his age, yet has significant impairment getting them on paper, both in spelling and in letter formation, size, spacing, all of it.  When I asked if this meant dysgraphia, she said no b/c high performance in other areas of the testing ruled that out.  Ok, so then the question still remains how to help that.  She just didn't seem like she knew what to do with the high highs and low low's that were on all of his tests.  

He has been in both OT and ST and I feel like OT has helped somewhat, but speech has really felt kind of like a waste of time.  I really have no frame of reference to evaluate what "good" OT and ST are supposed to look like.  Any comments on what I should be expecting?  I could use some advice on where to go from here.  I'm an action plan kind of girl and I'm not sure where to start.  

 

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So what label did the np actually give you?  Anything significant in the testing?  Did she test attention?  Dyslexia and adhd used to be lumped together as minimal brain dysfunction, so yes you get a lot of this overlap.  Love the DSM.  (not)  

 

So you move beyond the DSM.  

 

To write you need to have a thought (expressive language), hold it in your head (working memory), motor plan it, remember all the spelling (visualization and phonemic awareness), and hold your attention for the whole process.  That's not an exhaustive list.  So it's not one label that causes the glitch but a number of weaknesses together.  So not one solution but several, a multi-pronged approach.

 

We talked vision in the other thread.  COVD.org is where you find a developmental optometrist.  

 

On the ST, are they working on expressive language?  Something else?  There are some terrific, terrific books you can buy through Great Ideas for Teaching.  Our SLP uses them.  Just depends on what you're working on.  STs really, really vary as to quality and what they do well.  If this one isn't cutting the mustard, find a new one or buy some things and do it yourself.  You can go to Super Duper, Linguisystems, Great Ideas for Teaching, etc. and pick out stuff and implement it.  

 

Look for the game Fistful of Coins.  

 

OT.  Again, OTs totally vary.  Maybe you need to move up the ladder to someone who is SIPT-certified or who knows more techniques to use with him?  http://www.wpspublish.com/store/Training/TherapistIndex  OT is one of those things that takes time to see benefit, but that doesn't mean your OT is bringing a lot to the table either.  See what she's doing and how it compares to what someone else would be doing and decide.  My dd got OT late (age 11) and if I had the chance to do it early/young with seemingly slow results, I'd stick with it.  Go to once a month with lots of homework if you need to, but I'd stick with it.  It's a sort of cumulative thing, and the results of not doing it aren't pretty.

 

I asked about the CTOPP, because that gives you a phonological processing score.  Does he pass the Barton screening test?  If he fails the Barton pretest, well there's your answer.  If he is connecting sound to written well, then you look at visual memory, working memory, and motor planning and the ability to do all those things together.  

 

Are you using an OG-style program for him?  SWR, WRTR, LOE, AAS, Barton, Wilson, whatever.  They're not all the same in that list obviously.

 

And yes, it's pretty common for the psych to plunk you a pile of data and leave you wondering what to do with it.

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So what label did the np actually give you? Anything significant in the testing? Did she test attention? Dyslexia and adhd used to be lumped together as minimal brain dysfunction, so yes you get a lot of this overlap. Love the DSM. (not)

 

So you move beyond the DSM.

 

To write you need to have a thought (expressive language), hold it in your head (working memory), motor plan it, remember all the spelling (visualization and phonemic awareness), and hold your attention for the whole process. That's not an exhaustive list. So it's not one label that causes the glitch but a number of weaknesses together. So not one solution but several, a multi-pronged approach.

 

We talked vision in the other thread. COVD.org is where you find a developmental optometrist.

 

On the ST, are they working on expressive language? Something else? There are some terrific, terrific books you can buy through Great Ideas for Teaching. Our SLP uses them. Just depends on what you're working on. STs really, really vary as to quality and what they do well. If this one isn't cutting the mustard, find a new one or buy some things and do it yourself. You can go to Super Duper, Linguisystems, Great Ideas for Teaching, etc. and pick out stuff and implement it.

 

Look for the game Fistful of Coins.

 

OT. Again, OTs totally vary. Maybe you need to move up the ladder to someone who is SIPT-certified or who knows more techniques to use with him? http://www.wpspublish.com/store/Training/TherapistIndex OT is one of those things that takes time to see benefit, but that doesn't mean your OT is bringing a lot to the table either. See what she's doing and how it compares to what someone else would be doing and decide. My dd got OT late (age 11) and if I had the chance to do it early/young with seemingly slow results, I'd stick with it. Go to once a month with lots of homework if you need to, but I'd stick with it. It's a sort of cumulative thing, and the results of not doing it aren't pretty.

 

I asked about the CTOPP, because that gives you a phonological processing score. Does he pass the Barton screening test? If he fails the Barton pretest, well there's your answer. If he is connecting sound to written well, then you look at visual memory, working memory, and motor planning and the ability to do all those things together.

 

Are you using an OG-style program for him? SWR, WRTR, LOE, AAS, Barton, Wilson, whatever. They're not all the same in that list obviously.

 

And yes, it's pretty common for the psych to plunk you a pile of data and leave you wondering what to do with it.

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Sounds like you have a lot of knowledge on the various moving parts. We used OPGTR to teach him to read, and we finished that at mid-first grade. He was reading fine, and just continued to advance his skill. We worked through ETC books 1-4. His phonemic awareness seems fine. Why I started to ? There was a problem is bc we used AAS for spelling for two years and despite tons of review, despite the fact that he could rattle off all the sounds and rules, the spelling knowledge was not staying outside the lesson, and not transferring to the writing. Additionally, spelling attempts aren't even phonetically correct, there are consonants missing and/or missing/incorrect in addition to the vowels.when writing progress wasn't being made despite daily practice as far as spacing, sizing and legibility and reversals persisted despite talking about tricks to remember the difference. Learning something like tying shoes took a very long time. Bilateral coordination was lacking, etc.

It took a long time for his ped to take me seriously bc he is very articulate and has a lot of relative strengths so it took looking at specific areas to begin seeing where the disconnects might be.

My problem is I'm not sure what the appropriate OT and ST should look like. In ST they do what looks very much like narration to me, which IMO is a strength not weakness.

I spoke w a local dyslexia center and they want to test him further. They said there is a lot of disinformation about dyslexia, that it doesn't always appear as a problem reading.

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Yes, the DSM is pretty tight on the reading disorder label.  My dd didn't tie her own shoes and skates till she was 10.  Didn't ride a bike till then either.  Yes, she had bilateral issues.  Did OT for that.  For spelling, we used SWR and TONS of dictation.  So by that age we were doing a full page written of dictation a day AND a computer spelling program (Calvert) AND a workbook or SWR.  We worked on it a LOT.  Dictation was, for us, very helpful in getting the carry-over.  We used the levels of AAS after VT (vision therapy) for a review and to see things a fresh way.  It's fine, love the way it's organized, but SWR (which presents everything at once, gets them into harder material, and makes them synthesize) was better for her.  That's not a good leap for every kid, but for her it was.  AAS would have been too incremental.

 

I'm just saying all that because I see people using AAS and not making progress, and I think with some kids you're NOT going to get progress.  It's not the right type of program for all kids.  It took a LOT more use and repetition for things to solidify for my dd than I thought it ought to.  If you read Dyslexic Advantage they explain some of the recent MRI research showing their brain structure and WHY these kids need so many more exposures for something to connect.  That's why we did so much dictation, because it was in context, with a narrative, with meaning, and could get used OVER AND OVER OVER.  We were basically spending 1 1/2+ hours a day on spelling (dictation, computer work, etc. etc.) at that age.  Seriously.  And for that, she's competent.  She's not astounding and she struggles with word retrieval, her foreign language, etc., etc. I'm not sure cranking it up like that is appropriate for every kid, but it's what we did and what others seem to do with Barton and when they need that intensity.

 

Glad your dyslexia center can do more testing for you!  Hopefully that will give you more information on what's going on and what to do about it.  :)

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Sounds like you have a lot of knowledge on the various moving parts. We used OPGTR to teach him to read, and we finished that at mid-first grade. He was reading fine, and just continued to advance his skill. We worked through ETC books 1-4. His phonemic awareness seems fine. Why I started to ? There was a problem is bc we used AAS for spelling for two years and despite tons of review, despite the fact that he could rattle off all the sounds and rules, the spelling knowledge was not staying outside the lesson, and not transferring to the writing. Additionally, spelling attempts aren't even phonetically correct, there are consonants missing and/or missing/incorrect in addition to the vowels.when writing progress wasn't being made despite daily practice as far as spacing, sizing and legibility and reversals persisted despite talking about tricks to remember the difference. Learning something like tying shoes took a very long time. Bilateral coordination was lacking, etc.

It took a long time for his ped to take me seriously bc he is very articulate and has a lot of relative strengths so it took looking at specific areas to begin seeing where the disconnects might be.

My problem is I'm not sure what the appropriate OT and ST should look like. In ST they do what looks very much like narration to me, which IMO is a strength not weakness.

I spoke w a local dyslexia center and they want to test him further. They said there is a lot of disinformation about dyslexia, that it doesn't always appear as a problem reading.

 

Ok, for a dyslexic it is going to take FOREVER for spelling to transfer to anything and even then they will likely blank on some rules and spellings as adults. Consistent OG training works for dyslexics, but it is an everyday correction issue. He needs to be working on spelling as a separate skill and then either use a grammar/spelling predictor like Ginger, a handheld spell device, and you (probably a combo of all three) for all other times.

 

A 9 year old dyslexic who is misspelling words in writing is totally normal. It doesn't mean that AAS or OG training is not working for him.

 

My 10 year old's spelling list of trouble words today just as an example:

 

any

cout (coat)

alwase (always)

sleding (sledding)

The next word was "easily" but he freaked out because he couldn't even begin to spell this one.

penny

known

shure (sure)

kneel

kyak (kayak)

 

We just had to go and talk through each error. Some he self-corrected, others like "kayak" he recognized as a 5 letter word, but could not figure out what letter was missing. You just have to keep plugging along with the OG method - reiterating the rules, talking about vowels and syllables, and making sure they get the correct picture of the word in their head from many different inputs.

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Yes, the DSM is pretty tight on the reading disorder label.  My dd didn't tie her own shoes and skates till she was 10.  Didn't ride a bike till then either.  Yes, she had bilateral issues.  Did OT for that.  For spelling, we used SWR and TONS of dictation.  So by that age we were doing a full page written of dictation a day AND a computer spelling program (Calvert) AND a workbook or SWR.  We worked on it a LOT.  Dictation was, for us, very helpful in getting the carry-over.  We used the levels of AAS after VT (vision therapy) for a review and to see things a fresh way.  It's fine, love the way it's organized, but SWR (which presents everything at once, gets them into harder material, and makes them synthesize) was better for her.  That's not a good leap for every kid, but for her it was.  AAS would have been too incremental.

 

I'm just saying all that because I see people using AAS and not making progress, and I think with some kids you're NOT going to get progress.  It's not the right type of program for all kids.  It took a LOT more use and repetition for things to solidify for my dd than I thought it ought to.  If you read Dyslexic Advantage they explain some of the recent MRI research showing their brain structure and WHY these kids need so many more exposures for something to connect.  That's why we did so much dictation, because it was in context, with a narrative, with meaning, and could get used OVER AND OVER OVER.  We were basically spending 1 1/2+ hours a day on spelling (dictation, computer work, etc. etc.) at that age.  Seriously.  And for that, she's competent.  She's not astounding and she struggles with word retrieval, her foreign language, etc., etc. I'm not sure cranking it up like that is appropriate for every kid, but it's what we did and what others seem to do with Barton and when they need that intensity.

 

Glad your dyslexia center can do more testing for you!  Hopefully that will give you more information on what's going on and what to do about it.   :)

OhElizabeth- I will check out that book.  We are heading to the dyslexia center for more testing this morning.  I also had another Mom tell me about Barton, so I watched her video and student assessment and I don't even have to give the test to my son to know he could pass every section except the last, where they have to compare three sounds and repeat them back in order after a brief time delay.  That goes to working memory issues, right? Anyway, so Barton says if you can't pass that portion that you can't even start any kind of OG or her program until you remediate some specific foundational skills she lists on her site via the "Lindamood-Bell" LIPS method.  I remember you mentioning something about speech therapy and being able to work on those skills on your own.  I did a quick search in our area and the only LIPS place near us is two hours away :(. So, if you could share what you know about that and what can be done in the home or how I can learn more about that.  I also checked out the coins game and it's on its way to me now- it looks great for working on working memory, sequencing, etc. all areas I know he needs work in that they are not addressing much at all in ST right now.  

Also, agree that AAS isn't for everyone. I know it gets rave reviews and I can see it's beauty but just like many other great programs, it has to be a good fit for the student you're trying to teach.  I can foresee we will have to do a multi-layered intensive approach like what you described to get it all starting to transfer.  I am really interested to read that book so I can understand the why's of that.  thanks again to all the posters providing feedback.  Makes me feel not so alone in figuring all this out. 

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