Elements of Mathematics - could this replace AoPS?

[happyhome]

My dd would hang me from the rafters for the title of this thread, but what do you think? Has anyone used this? The claim of AP Calc in 3 years is intriguing because we may run out of time in the AoPS sequence for 13yr old.

 

http://www.elementsofmathematics.com

[kiana]

Up to calculus means 'everything before calculus'.

[Farrar]

Oh my.  That's the most new mathy thing I've seen in ages.  It's all online?  Huh.  I'll be curious to hear if people use it.  We're not there yet, but it could appeal to one of my ds in a few years.

[Dana]

I used the books on the linked site when I was in middle school. It's good stuff.

It is formal math...we were doing groups, rings, and fields in one of the later books. Didn't see that again until abstract algebra in undergrad.

 

The thing I'm not sure about is how geometry would fit in.

If I didn't own the books, I'd have my son doing the online EM courses.

As it is, I can't justify paying twice for the materials.

We've done one of the courses when they were just starting.

They're self taught. Lots of reading online.

Explanations are good.

 

You can look up MEGSSS and get some more information about the materials and approach as well.

[Chrysalis Academy]

:bigear:   I've eyeballed this curriculum in the past.  It looks very cool, but I'm kind of scared of it, too.  I don't know how I'd help her if she ran into trouble without doing the whole thing myself.

[Dana]

:bigear: I've eyeballed this curriculum in the past. It looks very cool, but I'm kind of scared of it, too. I don't know how I'd help her if she ran into trouble without doing the whole thing myself.

I have the books but can't get tests or solutions, so on the books we've used, I have to work them as well. That's heavily labor intensive and I've caught a couple of errors as well :(

 

The online courses do have a discussion board where the kids can ask help from other people... That wasn't working very well last Jan when ds took the first course, but I'd hope it's better now.

[Dana]

There also was discussion about it on the Accelerated Learner board.

Check for discussion starting around Jan 2013 when the first course was briefly free.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Honestly? I'm thinking about doing this class myself.  

[Dana]

Honestly? I'm thinking about doing this class myself.

Then go for it. It's seriously good.

And I'm happy to be PMed with questions...or let me know if a thread is going and I'll check in.

Kiana may be willing to answer some questions as well...(or tell me to delete that! ;) )

 

In the first course, you learn about operational systems....what it takes for a system to be closed...and at the end, you learn about the commutative, associative, distributive, identity, and inverse properties....all done well.

 

For instance, instead of just being told that addition and multiplication are commutative on the real numbers, while subtraction and divison aren't, you work with strangely defined operations to see why commutativity matters and what it means to show a counterexample.

 

I really am torn between the EM books and AoPS. I let ds choose for this year and he picked AoPS, but we may incorporate some of the books.

 

I had such a neat foundation from the EM materials and the MEGSSS program.

In college, I told dh that my folks lived about a half hour's drive on a slope of -1/2 from Frankfurt.

He looked at me funny :)

[wapiti]

Off to check the old thread about it on the other board.  Eta, this one? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/450604-elements-of-mathematics-foundations/?hl=elements&do=findComment&comment=4639766  

Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[Dana]

That looks very interesting. Maybe it would be an especially interesting alternative when AoPS is not a good fit. I'm not sure what I think about the requirement that even more advanced students start at the beginning? On the one hand, I get it, but on the other hand, it's kind of a turn-off - it would depend on how quickly such students could move through the lower levels. That would also add significantly to the cost for such student - to get through to the end of the second geometry course would be $780.

 

I also have concerns about this grading on a computed curve, for those kids whose grades will count. For example, I'm in the market for a geometry course for a rising 8th grader in B&M school (who used AoPS for Prealgebra and took a traditional algebra class at school). We will probably end up with the AoPS on-line course. It wouldn't seem that EM could fit in this sort of situation, unless the prerequisite courses could be finished during the summer before.

 

On the other hand, it might be an interesting option for my ds11s. The school is concerned about meeting their needs, though the principal is especially concerned about having a peer group. AoPS at home has been a struggle with those who would rather not think too hard, but the on-line approach, in the few samples I looked at, looks like something they could get into, almost like a computer game or puzzle.

 

Off to check the old thread about it on the other board. Eta, this one? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/450604-elements-of-mathematics-foundations/?hl=elements&do=findComment&comment=4639766

That's one thread. It may give some of the best feedback of what the courses are actually like. There are some other threads too...I don't know if I was tagging them then as well...you can look for EM, MEGSSS, and IMACS.

 

Unfortunately, the courses really do build on prior info, so you couldn't skip around IMO.

[Matryoshka]

Hm, this is interesting.  Dd has just about finished AoPS Intro Algebra, and we've been taking a break to review with Khan Academy.  I've signed her up for Geometry w/ Jurgensen for the fall, because even though she loves AoPS, I see that there isn't enough review for her.  I've been trying to figure out how to keep her in some more "interesting" math alongside the more standard stuff.  I was thinking of having her do more Alcumus for that, along with sticking with Khan for straightforward review. 

 

I actually had her take the eIMACs aptitude test for their higher level courses, and she didn't quite pass and they suggested this instead.  At that point I was still thinking we'd forge ahead with AoPS.  But if we're not... I'm wondering if I should sign her up for the first module as "fun math" over the summer.  The comment she made after the taking the other eIMACS aptitude test was "I like the way they think".  I want to keep giving her opportunities to have that experience while still building solid "regular" math skills.  If only there were more time in a day! :tongue_smilie:

[mathmarm]

I had such a neat foundation from the EM materials and the MEGSSS program.

In college, I told dh that my folks lived about a half hour's drive on a slope of -1/2 from Frankfurt.

He looked at me funny :)

 

Your husband was probably baffled because you didn't state the units. He was probably thinking "They live on a slope of -1/2 what? Meters? Feet? Yards? I wonder if she's a US customary or metric sort of gal"

 

[wapiti]

That's one thread. It may give some of the best feedback of what the courses are actually like. There are some other threads too...I don't know if I was tagging them then as well...you can look for EM, MEGSSS, and IMACS.

 

Thank you Dana!  I will do some searching.

 

If anyone has comments on how long these courses might take for 11 year olds who have been through AoPS Prealgebra and part of Intro to Algebra, I'd love to hear.

 

I was looking at a "bean machine" sample.  Ds11 saw this, played with it, and soon enough was googling how to program a Galton Box in Java...  so, I think he liked it.

[MiMi 4under3]

This looks interesting - thanks for sharing!  :)

[happyhome]

Honestly? I'm thinking about doing this class myself.

Me too!! Dd could tag along with me.

[happyhome]

Thank you Dana! I will do some searching.

 

If anyone has comments on how long these courses might take for 11 year olds who have been through AoPS Prealgebra and part of Intro to Algebra, I'd love to hear.

 

I was looking at a "bean machine" sample. Ds11 saw this, played with it, and soon enough was googling how to program a Galton Box in Java... so, I think he liked it.

I was wondering about the timing too. The website says each course takes 90 days doing math for one hour three times a week. We do more than that here.

[happyhome]

 

"That looks very interesting. Maybe it would be an especially interesting alternative when AoPS is not a good fit. I'm not sure what I think about the requirement that even more advanced students start at the beginning? On the one hand, I get it, but on the other hand, it's kind of a turn-off - it would depend on how quickly such students could move through the lower levels. That would also add significantly to the cost for such student - to get through to the end of the second geometry course would be $780."

 

Regarding placement, they say if the material is review you move through the courses much faster than the quoted 90 days. Also, I think the $780 price tag is comparable to AoPS if you do the AoPS online classes. Right?

[wapiti]

 

"That looks very interesting. Maybe it would be an especially interesting alternative when AoPS is not a good fit. I'm not sure what I think about the requirement that even more advanced students start at the beginning? On the one hand, I get it, but on the other hand, it's kind of a turn-off - it would depend on how quickly such students could move through the lower levels. That would also add significantly to the cost for such student - to get through to the end of the second geometry course would be $780."

 

Regarding placement, they say if the material is review you move through the courses much faster than the quoted 90 days. Also, I think the $780 price tag is comparable to AoPS if you do the AoPS online classes. Right?

 

Yes, though we typically don't use the on-line classes for AoPS, just the books.  ETA, however, the AoPS classes have live instructors and teaching assistants and at least a little human grading/comments.

 

EM is very intriguing, though it's kind of hard to find reviews.

[Matryoshka]

I was wondering about the timing too. The website says each course takes 90 days doing math for one hour three times a week. We do more than that here.

 

The great thing for a faster-moving student is, you're actually paying by time, not the course.  So if you finish one course before the 90 days (or whatever interval) is up, your student can move on to the next course in the series.  (This would of course stink if you had a kid take longer than the time given...)

 

ETA: From their FAQ:

 

If my child completes a course before the enrollment period ends, can he or she start the next course?

Once a student completes a course, he or she may enroll in and begin the next course in the sequence. Any time remaining from the previous course will be added to the enrollment period for the next course at no additional cost. To enroll in the next course, click here and follow the registration process.

 

[Dana]

 

The great thing for a faster-moving student is, you're actually paying by time, not the course. So if you finish one course before the 90 days (or whatever interval) is up, your student can move on to the next course in the series. (This would of course stink if you had a kid take longer than the time given...)

 

ETA: From their FAQ:

 

If my child completes a course before the enrollment period ends, can he or she start the next course?

 

Once a student completes a course, he or she may enroll in and begin the next course in the sequence. Any time remaining from the previous course will be added to the enrollment period for the next course at no additional cost. To enroll in the next course, click here and follow the registration process.

The way I read this was if you had a month remaining on your time, when you enroll in the next class, then you'd have 4 months for that course. I thought you'd still need to pay for each course. If that weren't the case, I might be willing to pay for some....and move really fast....

[Matryoshka]

The way I read this was if you had a month remaining on your time, when you enroll in the next class, then you'd have 4 months for that course. I thought you'd still need to pay for each course. If that weren't the case, I might be willing to pay for some....and move really fast....

 

Hm... perhaps I should call and clarify.  I didn't read it the way you did, but it certainly could be read that way too! 

 

[Dana]

Hm... perhaps I should call and clarify. I didn't read it the way you did, but it certainly could be read that way too!

 

If you find out, please let me know!

[kiana]

And I'm happy to be PMed with questions...or let me know if a thread is going and I'll check in.

Kiana may be willing to answer some questions as well...(or tell me to delete that! ;) )

 

Ha, of course I am.

[Crimson Wife]

I've kept this in the back of my mind as an option for DS when he finishes Singapore PM & as much as BA gets published in time. Hopefully they'll have the sequence either finished or close to it by the time he gets there. We might continue on with Singapore DM or AOPS but it's nice to have a 3rd option.

[Clear Creek]

My oldest took the first course when she was ten (so, middle of fifth grade). The course was outstanding, and my daughter learned a LOT. It is far too expensive for us, though. My daughter has requested to study math twice per day beginning this fall, one hour with AOPS and a second hour (give or take) with something else. Her choice would be to continue with the EOM classes, but most likely she will use Mathematics: A Human Endeavor.

 

I understood the time policy to mean that the time rolls forward into the next paid class, not that the student could advance through more than one class in that three month period without having to pay for the additional classes. If it turns out that I only have to pay for three-month time periods and she can take as many classes as she wants during that time, she may get her wish after all. :001_smile:   When she took the Operational Systems class she had no trouble finishing it on time, and that included taking Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks during her class.

[happyhome]

Up to calculus means 'everything before calculus'.

Does this quote from their website imply at least pre-calc:

 

"What if my child completes the the EMF series of courses?

He or she will be ready to take calculus classes at the AP level. Students who complete the EMF series with an overall average of 80% or higher may also be eligible for the Advanced Mathematical Logic series of courses. An aptitude test for these university-level courses is available at www.eimacs.com."

[kiana]

Does this quote from their website imply at least pre-calc:

 

"What if my child completes the the EMF series of courses?

He or she will be ready to take calculus classes at the AP level. Students who complete the EMF series with an overall average of 80% or higher may also be eligible for the Advanced Mathematical Logic series of courses. An aptitude test for these university-level courses is available at www.eimacs.com."

 

Yes.

[Tammi K]

I was just reminding myself to look for the sign-up info to see the June discount deadline!  I've heard good things about it from people who have done some of the courses. My son really liked the aptitude test. I think we're going to give it a whirl over the summer.

[raptor_dad]

Oh my.  That's the most new mathy thing I've seen in ages.  It's all online?  Huh.  I'll be curious to hear if people use it.  We're not there yet, but it could appeal to one of my ds in a few years.

 

Well yes, EM is the junior high and high school continuation of CSMP. The original publication dates were circa 1969. The new offering is just those books put online with new interactive exercises and videos. Fabulous stuff but the backbone is all new math.

 

PS. EPGY math likewise is largely an online version of Patrick Suppes' "Sets and Numbers" elementary textbooks from the 60s and early 70s. In the late 90s EPGY still sold CDs with copies of the textbook to folks without internet access.

[raptor_dad]

My dd would hang me from the rafters for the title of this thread, but what do you think? Has anyone used this? The claim of AP Calc in 3 years is intriguing because we may run out of time in the AoPS sequence for 13yr old.

 

http://www.elementsofmathematics.com

 

As far as I can tell, the EM folks are basing the 3yr quote on taking 4x3mos courses a year.

 

You could just as easily do:

 

Dolciani Structure Method Alg 1

Jurgensen Geometry -or- Kisselev -or- Solomonovich

Dolciani Structure Method Alg2

Doliciani/Beckenbach Math Analysis -or- Allendoerfer and Oakley "Principles of Mathematics"

 

Assuming the standard 9mos per course x4 , this gets you to calculus in 3 years(36mos).

 

There are good reasons to use the EM approach but acceleration is not one of them. Either the above program or EM should leave the student ready for a rigorous Calculus like Spivak or Apostol -or- for an easier calculus course followed by an elite course like math 51@stanford or math 55@harvard or other schools' theoretical calc options.

 

PS. This all assumes no acceleration, using standard course timetables.

[wapiti]

I am letting ds stay up late to do the test so I can decide whether to try the first course with the discount. He likes it but a timed test is not his favorite. It might be just the type of fun summer math I am looking for.  Eta, all right, we're giving it a try.  But, it didn't give me the discount - disappointing - might have to email them tomorrow.

[wapiti]

PS. EPGY math likewise is largely an online version of Patrick Suppes' "Sets and Numbers" elementary textbooks from the 60s and early 70s. In the late 90s EPGY still sold CDs with copies of the textbook to folks without internet access.

 

I didn't know that Suppes had elementary texts!  Interesting.  (My boys did some EPGY several years ago and found it a bit dry.  They were pretty young then, though.)

[nansk]

List of Suppes' books.

[happyhome]

As far as I can tell, the EM folks are basing the 3yr quote on taking 4x3mos courses a year.

 

You could just as easily do:

 

Dolciani Structure Method Alg 1

Jurgensen Geometry -or- Kisselev -or- Solomonovich

Dolciani Structure Method Alg2

Doliciani/Beckenbach Math Analysis -or- Allendoerfer and Oakley "Principles of Mathematics"

 

Assuming the standard 9mos per course x4 , this gets you to calculus in 3 years(36mos).

 

There are good reasons to use the EM approach but acceleration is not one of them. Either the above program or EM should leave the student ready for a rigorous Calculus like Spivak or Apostol -or- for an easier calculus course followed by an elite course like math 51@stanford or math 55@harvard or other schools' theoretical calc options.

 

PS. This all assumes no acceleration, using standard course timetables.

Thanks for this. I was interested in EM for two reasons, one was a possible acceleration and also because after Algebra 1, we are definitely going to need to out source. Regarding the acceleration, I liked EM's self pacing with online instructor support. I was thinking she could do more than one course every 3 mos and so be ahead of that 3 year curve. We do math for two hours a day here (at her request) but maybe that is too ambitious?

 

Regarding the outsourcing, AoPS has wonderful online classes that are still our first choice. However, dd is taking her first one in the fall and the jury is out as to whether she can handle the pace. If she can, we'll stay with AoPS. If not, I'm looking for other options. The schedule you mentioned might work if I can find proper support. I can handle Algebra 1, no problem. But no way am I grading a proof without some hand holding :)

[happyhome]

As far as I can tell, the EM folks are basing the 3yr quote on taking 4x3mos courses a year.

 

You could just as easily do:

 

Dolciani Structure Method Alg 1

Jurgensen Geometry -or- Kisselev -or- Solomonovich

Dolciani Structure Method Alg2

Doliciani/Beckenbach Math Analysis -or- Allendoerfer and Oakley "Principles of Mathematics"

 

Assuming the standard 9mos per course x4 , this gets you to calculus in 3 years(36mos).

 

There are good reasons to use the EM approach but acceleration is not one of them. Either the above program or EM should leave the student ready for a rigorous Calculus like Spivak or Apostol -or- for an easier calculus course followed by an elite course like math 51@stanford or math 55@harvard or other schools' theoretical calc options.

 

PS. This all assumes no acceleration, using standard course timetables.

Raptor dad, out of curiosity, what do you think of EM in general? Would you use this as a complete course of study prior to Calculus or would this be more supplemental in your opinion? The new math idea is intriguing and terrifying at the same time. I tend to go with more traditional methods, whether out of fear or familiarity.

[kiana]

Raptor dad, out of curiosity, what do you think of EM in general? Would you use this as a complete course of study prior to Calculus or would this be more supplemental in your opinion? The new math idea is intriguing and terrifying at the same time. I tend to go with more traditional methods, whether out of fear or familiarity.

 

Dana used it personally -- she's been reading this thread, but you might ask her as well.

 

New Math was fine for the students and teachers who could handle it. Many times, though, it was badly mistaught, and/or there was a lot of parent resistance based on 'I can do it the old way, why are you making my kid learn it this way?! my kid is going to be doing it the traditional way!' Furthermore, some kids just weren't ready to think that conceptually, and for them the traditional way really would have been superior.

 

[happyhome]

Dana used it personally -- she's been reading this thread, but you might ask her as well.

 

New Math was fine for the students and teachers who could handle it. Many times, though, it was badly mistaught, and/or there was a lot of parent resistance based on 'I can do it the old way, why are you making my kid learn it this way?! my kid is going to be doing it the traditional way!' Furthermore, some kids just weren't ready to think that conceptually, and for them the traditional way really would have been superior.

 

Dana, my question above tossed out to you. Also, since the entire program is described as "self taught" online, does that remove the need for ME to implement well? In other words, can I assume THEY are implementing and dd and I are following them? Their samples aren't very good so it's hard to get a true feel for what we're walking into. I do know that I would not and could not teach new math without some serious self ed. Hence why I may take these courses myself. Maybe not a bad thing for the toolbox as I teach/oversee all three through high school.

[Matryoshka]

As far as I can tell, the EM folks are basing the 3yr quote on taking 4x3mos courses a year.

 

You could just as easily do:

 

Dolciani Structure Method Alg 1

Jurgensen Geometry -or- Kisselev -or- Solomonovich

Dolciani Structure Method Alg2

Doliciani/Beckenbach Math Analysis -or- Allendoerfer and Oakley "Principles of Mathematics"

 

Assuming the standard 9mos per course x4 , this gets you to calculus in 3 years(36mos).

 

We may end up doing both (though probably not in 3 years...). :tongue_smilie:  I just signed dd up for the 1st EM course (made the June 1st deadline for the discount ;) ), and she's also signed up to do Jurgensen Geometry next year (and if that works out well, we'll probably continue with the Dolciani for Alg2).  I figured she could try the 1st EM module as a trial this summer to see if she likes it, and if she does, I may use it as a supplement alongside those...   For my kid, anyway, she'd need more review than EM alone - if she needed more review with AoPS, it would probably be even a bigger problem with EM standalone. 

[Clear Creek]

Thanks for this. I was interested in EM for two reasons, one was a possible acceleration and also because after Algebra 1, we are definitely going to need to out source. Regarding the acceleration, I liked EM's self pacing with online instructor support. I was thinking she could do more than one course every 3 mos and so be ahead of that 3 year curve. We do math for two hours a day here (at her request) but maybe that is too ambitious?

 

Regarding the outsourcing, AoPS has wonderful online classes that are still our first choice. However, dd is taking her first one in the fall and the jury is out as to whether she can handle the pace. If she can, we'll stay with AoPS. If not, I'm looking for other options. The schedule you mentioned might work if I can find proper support. I can handle Algebra 1, no problem. But no way am I grading a proof without some hand holding :)

 

There are no online instructors and no instructor support. There is a help forum where students can post/answer questions, but that is it. Students are expected to be able to complete the courses on their own; no teachers involved (except parents).

 

From the FAQ's:

 

Is there a way for parents or teachers to receive curriculum support from IMACS other than through the Help Forum?

 

The EMF curriculum is "mathematician" math as opposed to standard "school" math. Through the work of professional mathematicians and mathematics educators, this advanced material has been made accessible for extremely bright and motivated young students. Individuals capable of providing support to EMF students would need a rare combination of skills: the ability to understand abstract, university-level mathematics AND the ability to relate these complex ideas to middle and high-school aged children. Because very few middle and high school teachers have any experience teaching this level of mathematics, it would be challenging to find appropriate curriculum support staff for EMF. Furthermore, the cost to hire such uniquely skilled support staff would necessarily raise the tuition for EMF courses substantially. The goal of IMACS in offering EMF is to provide wide access to our world-class curriculum in mathematics in a way that is still relatively affordable.

 

 

[Dana]

Dana, my question above tossed out to you. Also, since the entire program is described as "self taught" online, does that remove the need for ME to implement well? In other words, can I assume THEY are implementing and dd and I are following them? Their samples aren't very good so it's hard to get a true feel for what we're walking into. I do know that I would not and could not teach new math without some serious self ed. Hence why I may take these courses myself. Maybe not a bad thing for the toolbox as I teach/oversee all three through high school.

I used most of what is on the EM site now and the IMACS logic course in 7th and 8th grade with an amazing teacher, Ms. Turk. Every time I teach the quadratic formula, I see her in my mind chanting it with us and moving around the room :). She did add in extra worksheets when we were factoring. Looking at the books now, I definitely think more practice on factoring was needed. I had an amazingly solid understanding of lines and graphing.

 

Again, I worked the first EM course with ds last year and followed along with the text as well.

They did have some software glitches on occasion at the time that they did respond to and fix or explain when I emailed them. I do think that They are implementing the courses and you're following along. In most cases, the online explanation, written, is going to be enough.

 

I asked my son his thoughts...he says the online course was neat with the digital representation. The book had more examples and practice (and I do agree that there may be some topics, see factoring, where you may need to supplement with some extra drill). He didn't like that you only got one attempt at a problem before it affected your score (and if they haven't fixed that, you may not want to use the score as a grade...or just use the score at the end test for a grade).

 

The tests are really cool. They take what has been learned so far and extend it. So tests are a question of applying what you learned and not just regurgitating. I did briefly debate paying for the courses just to have access to the tests, but I can't justify the expense when I own the books.

 

What I did in Book 0 (which is most of what is planned on the EM site) served me well in my undergrad math degree. We did basic group and ring theory. I don't know if it was just that I had an excellent instructor or if it was the approach as well that was so good. I don't think we got to the last few books...those would have been for the next years but unfortunately we had a different instructor in high school who wasn't good and we didn't use the texts.

 

I don't see how they will be able to offer the later courses for the same price though. That's one concern I have with the size of the texts around ch 10.

 

I did find the texts worthwhile enough to hunt them down when I started homeschooling and bought them all in case I couldn't later when ds was only in 2nd grade.

I am still torn between AoPS books and EM books. Both are excellent. I think if I were having ds do the work alone online, I'd choose EM because of the pacing of AoPS (I think their online courses go too fast for him).

 

HTH some....

[wapiti]

I found this list http://megsss.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31&Itemid=98 - can anyone translate the book and chapters in this list to the course list on the EM page?  Is the EM list of courses 1-15 all "book 0" from this MEGSSS document?

Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[Dana]

 

 

I found this list http://megsss.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31&Itemid=98 - can anyone translate the book and chapters in this list to the course list on the EM page? Is the EM list of courses 1-15 all "book 0" from this MEGSSS document?

 

Yes.

 

I'll try to post more info later this evening...feel free to remind me via PM if I don't get to it....

 

They're putting up the books as they go...so they don't have all the books up now but they're working on it.

[wapiti]

Thanks Dana!  It looks like EM courses 1-7 and 9 (as well as three logic chapters from book 1, which isn't available??) would then be covered in one calendar year, which makes sense as the topics seem prealgebra-ish, though then I wonder how long each course will take.  I also wonder whether books 1, 2 and 3 would be on-line in time - I have doubts...

[shawthorne44]

I wonder if the Frugal Method would work?  Maybe do the first two courses independently as much as possible, then sign up and fill in the gaps.  

[wapiti]

Eta, I just came across a very old Moira post with a list of book prices.  A bit of googling turned up what appears to be Book 0, or maybe just the first chapter of Book 0, though I cannot find the other books.

 

 

 

FYI, the EMF people fixed my discount problem.  They also stated the following:

 

Due to a last-minute flurry of interest in EMF, IMACS plans on extending the 25% discount on the first EMF course, Operational Systems, by one week. It should be in place by this afternoon.  

[Matryoshka]

Dana, on 01 Jun 2014 - 1:16 PM, said: The way I read this was if you had a month remaining on your time, when you enroll in the next class, then you'd have 4 months for that course. I thought you'd still need to pay for each course. If that weren't the case, I might be willing to pay for some....and move really fast....

 

 

Hm... perhaps I should call and clarify.  I didn't read it the way you did, but it certainly could be read that way too! 

 

 

 

So... I called them, and of course you're right, Dana. Darn.  Should have realized that was too good to be true!  They did try to sell that all that extra time (which would keep adding up if your student keeps finishing sooner than the limit), could eventually come in handy in the higher level courses that might slow them down...

 

Well, let's see if she likes the first course before I get ahead of myself! ;)

[Dana]

So... I called them, and of course you're right, Dana. Darn. Should have realized that was too good to be true! They did try to sell that all that extra time (which would keep adding up if your student keeps finishing sooner than the limit), could eventually come in handy in the higher level courses that might slow them down...

 

Well, let's see if she likes the first course before I get ahead of myself! ;)

Wish it were your reading! Thanks for updating.

[happyhome]

Due to a last-minute flurry of interest in EMF, IMACS plans on extending the 25% discount on the first EMF course, Operational Systems, by one week. It should be in place by this afternoon.  

 

Sooooo, does that mean I get a 30% discount for starting the thread????? :lol:

[wapiti]

On my timing and scope and sequence questions, they responded as follows:

 

While IMACS does not have a specific schedule for rolling out the EMF courses, the development team is working diligently to build each of them as quickly as possibly. Our goal is to complete the build-out over the next two to three years. As you might imagine with any project of this size and scope, creating a high-quality and effective online educational experience for rigorous mathematics takes time.

 

We understand parents' need to get a sense of EMF's scope and sequence. Publishing a document with this information is definitely on our to-do list. As EMF's profile is raised, we see the need to reassign some resources from coding up the actual courses to providing more detailed information about course content. The development team is in discussions right now on how to best balance the two, so your question is timely.

 

We'll let you know as soon as we have a better sense of when a scope and sequence document might be available.