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No more patience...am I teaching challenged?


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One step Wow.. Now that is explicit. That's what I needed to hear. Holy moly...thank you for the explanation. Now that's catered learning! Serious applause for your being able to bend to the needs of your children. That's hard work.

 

I wouldn't say it's courageous on my part. (Quote it takes courage) But I whole heartedly appreciate your encouragement. I'm not afraid because I don't deal with many stereotypes. I would get disgruntled and weary of spending too much money or time in the wrong direction though. I don't get ashame dor scared if there is a grouping of kids with LD's or learning challenges, or if I or my kids are in any of those categories, because I know so many people with issues that if it's not physiological, it's psychological, or vice, or what have you. I kinda look at life with kids and people like the autism speaks logo with the puzzle piece. I want to find what works so that we're not continually frustrated to get stuff working. Continually being frustrated is akin to a side of insanity that I don't want ~like finding a corner in round room. Sometimes we are just doing and creating out of necessity. Necessity is the mother of invention, right?

 

I also am easily distracted myself. So I developed a check box mentality just to make sure I get something accomplished. If I don't get listy, I would just procrastinate and not get things done. I am a last minute type of person. Fighting my own short comings while dealing with their types of learning while I am not used to teaching that way is really hard. I guess everyone has to figure it out.

 

Is the evaluation that you did for your kids the full neuro psych? In order to determine color stimulus learning? Or was it the developmental optometrist visit?

To the bolded, I hear you!  Oh my goodness, especially since breast cancer, I seem to have a terrible time keeping track of everything if I don't make lists.  I even have lists for my lists.  But I was always kind of a list person.  Mom laughs at the journal I started in elementary.  It is mainly a bunch of lists...   :)

 

As for "catered" learning, I was honestly really stunned when the evaluator showed me DS's scores when he was doing something in black and white vs. color.  There really was a significant difference.  And when he had no auditory support and something was in black and white he barely functioned. The scores really did help to explain, though, why 2nd grade was such a dismal, colossal,  complete failure after doing phenomenally well in 4k/kinder/1st.  

 

Besides the undiagnosed stealth dyslexia and stealth dysgraphia finally catching up with him because of the increase in expected output for independent reading and writing, in 2nd the teacher was no longer reading most of the material to the kids and the kids weren't reading it back to the teacher.  They were expected to read it silently to themselves.  No external audio component.  And the material went from really colorful in prior grades to mainly black and white in 2nd.  His strengths just were no longer strong enough to compensate for his undiscovered weaknesses.   :(

 

With DD, she made it to 5th before we finally got an eval but she struggled from 4k on with school.  We just didn't get the eval until 5th.  Ugh!  Wish I had ignored everyone else and gotten that eval much, much sooner.   I was reteaching nearly everything to DD when she was still in school because she just didn't seem to be learning very much in the classroom.  I didn't understand why, since she is very bright.  I ended up buying every single textbook for every grade level so we could review again at home.

 

Once we had the initial diagnosis of dyslexia I assumed that was the main issue.  Now that I am teaching her full time at home I realize that the other HUGE issue for her is the inability to process information if I keep talking (or anyone else) while she is still trying to thing through what I previously said.  At school the teachers would toss out concepts then move on to the next concept before she could process what they had said.  Then all those new words got mangled in her head with the old and she didn't get ANY concepts.  Now that she is home and I realize the issue I am able to help her help herself to create an environment that works better for her to learn.  We both realize when she gets into college and the workforce she will have to be able to self-advocate and be proactive in how she learns/trains so that her weaknesses don't prevent her strengths from shining through.

 

Sorry I keep typing novels.  I type really quickly and don't always realize how much until after the fact.  Best wishes.... :)

 

 

Edited to add I never answered your question regarding evals.  Sorry.  We couldn't find a reliable neuropsych in our area.  A friend recommended a CALT tutor in a nearby town that was also certified to evaluate.  I was leery.  We had had an eval through the school that was done by a CALT tutor.  It was less than useless.  It pushed us in the wrong direction.  And she was not actually helping the kids much at all with the private tutoring she was doing for them on the side.  We wasted hundreds of dollars we didn't have with that woman.

 

But the woman we ended up going to in the other city actually had a lot more certifications and experience than just CALT tutoring.  The eval took all day, but the kids came out really happy.  She was wonderful at keeping them engaged.  Then DH and I went back for her to walk us through the results.  It took over 3 hours.  She was so thorough.  With a neurospych we would probably get even more info, but not necessarily as clear an explanation.  She was awesome.  And she and I still email back and forth upon occassion when I need additional clarification.  The difference in how the kids react to color occurred with her eval, not the eye exam.  On a side note, we intend to get a full neuropych eval at some point for both kids later on, since they both may need accommodations during standardized testing...

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Love the read, helping me see what type of curriculum things and approaches I should be looking at.

 

Math-I always was drawn to the colorful abeka math books for ds. And in fact, DS did it in 3 months in kindy, practically without my help. Switched to (friends sold it to me cheap) MUS and it was sequential, he did ok because of the blocks, but the black and white pages killed all the loved of the math at times. Every time Dh and I got sick of the messy manipulative explosions all over the floor. We switched to Singapore,and it's ok. I can't always explain the math the way he needs it explained (abstract math is hard to teach), but the colorful text keeps him way more engaged. So my problem here is the abstract approach to Singapore, that I would have to learn and the black and white approach to MUS. MUS= Sequential mastery was great at times, but the daggone black and white was killer as were some of the word problems.Dh was reading all of the word problems to ds at one point. Then I felt it was just too predictable. I shouldn't have felt that, cause it allowed him sense of achievement and accomplishment even though it failing his ability to determine order of operations at the time. Maybe I should have just been happy that his working memory wasn't overloaded. We still plodded through. Last summer he was a year ahead till we hit a roadblock on the last 8 units of MUS gamma with the word problems. We switched to Singapore 2a instead of 3a because I knew I couldn't expect him to figure out math their way without covering topics the way they did. Plus, they did division principles and concepts early.

 

Still figuring out how PRECISE EXPLICIT MULTI-SENSORY (caps instead of bold, because I am on my iPad and can't, I am not screaming) Works and to what degree.

 

Merry- sorry, about the non-separated thoughts, and overwhelming post. I realized platforms limit our communications in different ways. Highlighting text isn't happening on my iPad. I should have hit the carriage return a couple of more times while typing. I edited the first post to help parse my emotions and issues. Sorry it was mostly a vent thread.

 

I am really getting a lot better at realizing how I have to change my style or really find the curriculum that fits my child. I didn't know how to do that till I vented first.

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One step- I am learning so much from all of you! And hugs cancer survivor!

 

It almost seems that the better test is the CALT's evaluation first. And that the neuro psych is only good for accommodating how our kids function as compared to others for standardized testing for future possible public school or other 'dealing with outside' needs. Because technically, I'd be inclined to find what fits now as opposed to a neuro psych which tells me a label but not how to properly teach xyz subject to my kid.

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One step- I am learning so much from all of you! And hugs cancer survivor!

 

It almost seems that the better test is the CALT's evaluation first. And that the neuro psych is only good for accommodating how our kids function as compared to others for standardized testing for future possible public school or other 'dealing with outside' needs. Because technically, I'd be inclined to find what fits now as opposed to a neuro psych which tells me a label but not how to properly teach xyz subject to my kid.

Well, I guess that would depend on the CALT eval and the neuropsychologist.  I have read from many posters that didn't get a very good explanation of the results of an NP eval but there are a lot that got more info than we did over a broader range of situations.  However, so far I haven't read of another eval that went into some of the depth in certain areas that ours did.  I guess it would really depend on the person doing the evaluation, what they are testing for and how willing and able they are to explain the results in detail....

 

And thanks for the hugs... :)

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So I need to be prepared and structured. Wow, I just took a huge break to de-stress this weekend, but ugh have to be prepared and re- activate the syllabus next week, but in smaller increments I guess. This will be tough. We home school all year, cause we are constantly behind what we set out to do... 

The developmental optometrist appointment is on Thursday hope we get all our answers. And, a book fair is on Tuesday. Please pray that I get something like Barton's or AAS for dirt cheap so that I don't have to spend a fortune again. I already committed to try finishing R&S but if it doesn't work, then back to drawing board. 

 

 

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We have to keep on going or all the work we have done, or he will forget. And my daughter too. Friday we just had Phys Ed and that was it. I am happy he has come this far. Just because he is having issues it's unfair to dd that she doesn't get what she should. They love apologia science and all that is hands on. Oh, and we are so far behind in art because of the three r's between teaching them all.... Sigh...no rest for weary mommy ever---except when I get to hand them off to 4 weeks of vacation bible schools! Lol that's time for me to plan and regroup with NO teaching! I LOVE SUMMER! Cash in those read to succeed six flags tickets :) etc... I gotta read and watch all those Barton videos before Tuesday.

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This thread makes me cringe. I'm sorry.

 

OP, your child has not been tested by anyone. You could pick up Barton and use it unhappily for weeks because your child could have severe auditory and/or visual processing issues that need to be addressed first. We have moms on the board who have dealt with that very thing.... Your child could have NLD, and the math approach that you would use would be contrary to what is used with a dyslexic/maths challenged student....Your child needs testing and a diagnosis so you know where to begin.

 

Faceless moms on the WTM board cannot reliably select your curriculum. Do the work and read the books recommended. Get the evals. Call your local dyslexia school and speak with professional educators. Join their monthly support group. Read about differentiated instruction.

 

Your method of administering and reviewing the SAT -10 sounds demoralizing to your student.

 

I read the test aloud to a high needs 7th grade student and tacked on one hour to every suggested test time. My student did not complete one subsection and that's OK. The SAT-10 is an assessment and the parents knew that portion of the test would be an issue.

 

Take a break and get the testing.

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Heather -Thank you for your honesty. The worse part of being a teacher is being told I've been wrong, the best part is being told how I've wronged someone and how to fix it. To be told I have been totally wrong is demeaning. And makes me not want to homeschool. Not saying you did that, just saying, cause that is what would push me.

 

Things I didn't do, which might have read wrong on this thread. I didn't grade him on any subject UNTIL these last two and a half weeks. Math, science, grammar, history, reading,writing, were all ungraded. With the exception of spelling, which has been graded on and off, just because the different curriculum did it for me. Like simplex spelling ap. or spelling city. When I timed the Stanford 10, I didn't tell him that if he didn't finish, he would be penalized. I told him it was for accuracy, and that if we could try to get it done within a half an hour, that would be great. I'm sorry to complain on here. My impatience will grind on everyone who has btdt, and has way more patience than me.

 

On Barton- thanks for saying what you said. I'm thrifty- if any curriculum isn't under $10 I think twice. I got burned with purchasing spelling power.

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Heather -Thank you for your honesty. The worse part of being a teacher is being told I've been wrong, the best part is being told how I've wronged someone and how to fix it. To be told I have been totally wrong is demeaning. And makes me not want to homeschool. Not saying you did that, just saying, cause that is what would push me.

 

Things I didn't do, which might have read wrong on this thread. I didn't grade him on any subject UNTIL these last two and a half weeks. Math, science, grammar, history, reading,writing, were all ungraded. With the exception of spelling, which has been graded on and off, just because the different curriculum did it for me. Like simplex spelling ap. or spelling city. When I timed the Stanford 10, I didn't tell him that if he didn't finish, he would be penalized. I told him it was for accuracy, and that if we could try to get it done within a half an hour, that would be great. I'm sorry to complain on here. My impatience will grind on everyone who has btdt, and has way more patience than me.

 

On Barton- thanks for saying what you said. I'm thrifty- if any curriculum isn't under $10 I think twice. I got burned with purchasing spelling power.

If you can't complain here, where can you complain?  :)  Here, you can gripe and if you don't like the responses you can just walk away from your computer.  A little harder to do that with someone you know in real life, KWIM?  :)

 

To be honest, I agree with Heather that you don't want to be wasting more money on expensive and potentially ineffective materials until you have concrete answers for where your child's strengths and weaknesses lie.  DH and I dragged our feet for years.  It was a mistake.  I don't know if evaluations will give you all the answers you need to be a better homeschooler, and to really help your child but I really feel like it will open up so much.  Getting the eye exam is a great first start.  Yeah Mom for being proactive.  I would not purchase squat until after the eye exam, though.  I wasted a TON of money hopping curriculum choices before realizing that wasn't going to fix the problem without concrete answers for what the underlying issues really were.  Therefore, honestly I would not purchase anything until after an exam through a neuropsych or highly trained and experienced qualified C.A.L.T. either.

 

You are trying your best.  You care.  Big hugs.  Don't give up.  

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I think that if I do go to the book fair I will at least get some phonogram manipulatives if they have them for cheap. If my DS won't use them my DD might. Hopefully the curriculum sale that I am going to is just a bunch of homeschooling parents who are just getting rid of excess stuff they don't need. I like the mateials that have been "loved" :) or, if I find phonograms on the internet myself, maybe make my own set with my laminator for them. Not sure how well it would help with kinesthetic side of learning, but I know I could always put prefixes or suffixes in different color or strange vowel combos.

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We have an appointment on Wednesday with the child find program through the special ed department for testing. It's not a whole neuropsych or anything but they can do testing for other areas if I need a occupational therapist if I need a special reading specialist or writing specialist. Maybe help determine dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. They would provide services in the public school system to help him but not at home.

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We have an appointment on Wednesday with the child find program through the special ad department for testing. It's not a whole neuropsych or anything but they can do testing for other areas if I need a occupational therapist if I need a special reading specialist or writing specialist. Maybe help determine dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. They would provide services in the public school system to help him but not at home.

Good luck.  Glad you are able to get things rolling.

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Heather -cringing with you.... Wow, I just read 1/2 of the first chapter of the mislabled child book.

One step- thank you for your encouragement and correcting me about the "careless" comment. I am so wrong in my wording...learning how to be more understanding. It'a hard because I grew up in the school of hard Knox.. Grrr...definitely on the teaching challenged side here.

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Heather -cringing with you.... Wow, I just read 1/2 of the first chapter of the mislabled child book.

One step- thank you for your encouragement and correcting me about the "careless" comment. I am so wrong in my wording...learning how to be more understanding. It'a hard because I grew up in the school of hard Knox.. Grrr...definitely on the teaching challenged side here.

You care about your kids.  That is huge.  All we can do as parents is keep trying.  You seem to be trying really hard to help them out and to seek better answers for the struggles.  Give yourself a hug and some grace.  :)  Some parents never seek a better path.

 

And some parents genuinely do not care.  Having seen a couple of parents that genuinely did not care about their kids I am grateful that my own parents cared about me, even if sometimes we were not on the same page and I know that while I may make mistakes, I DO care about my kids and that has to count for something, KWIM?

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Couldn't resist!The Lord provides. I am a curriculum junkie!! Couldn't help it but spend the money on some sequential history curriculum. And I got the AAS phonograms for level one. DD is using SWO level one but who knows? If it takes less time to do one vs another program, I would love to implement whatever. Also got LLATL 1,2 for free. Couldn't argue. I got a ton of books downstairs and upstairs, I hope my kids develop a love of reading. 

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I am heading to a book fair/curriculum swap this Saturday but I am going to try and remain under control.  We have nearly everything we need for school now, but I do want to look.  i just hope I can keep from overbuying.  I love school supplies and curriculum, etc.  I always have, even before I was homeschooling.  

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My problem is wanting to find things that match curriculum. Like a whole set of xyz curriculum. LOL OCD'ing over curriculum fairs is really hard for me. I had a BLAST ... this one lady just literally gave me tons of FREE stuff. I wished I didn't go to the first person's table and spend a boat load over veritas press cards and other Sotw stuff. But hey... I want to get that time line in for my kids at one point in their education. It really ruined my history experience not knowing history facts in order growing up. I was always bad at remembering dates. 

 

I had the special ed appt and they will contact me in one month to do a preliminary evaluation about my concerns. The set up today was just registration, not me actually talking to the education specialist. She has to determine which specialists need to be seen by my son. So one month for the preliminary eval. Then 90 days for the set up of the specialists to do a full eval. I also took my dd's to a new primary care doctor... she totally shied away from the developmental optometrist ideas. She asked if I wanted vision screening for my kids, and I said, oh, I am taking them to the eye doctor -- developmental optometrist tomorrow. So... it was really freaky having such animosity from my kid's pediatrician about seeing a developmental optometrist. 

 

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My problem is wanting to find things that match curriculum. Like a whole set of xyz curriculum. LOL OCD'ing over curriculum fairs is really hard for me. I had a BLAST ... this one lady just literally gave me tons of FREE stuff. I wished I didn't go to the first person's table and spend a boat load over veritas press cards and other Sotw stuff. But hey... I want to get that time line in for my kids at one point in their education. It really ruined my history experience not knowing history facts in order growing up. I was always bad at remembering dates. 

 

I had the special ed appt and they will contact me in one month to do a preliminary evaluation about my concerns. The set up today was just registration, not me actually talking to the education specialist. She has to determine which specialists need to be seen by my son. So one month for the preliminary eval. Then 90 days for the set up of the specialists to do a full eval. I also took my dd's to a new primary care doctor... she totally shied away from the developmental optometrist ideas. She asked if I wanted vision screening for my kids, and I said, oh, I am taking them to the eye doctor -- developmental optometrist tomorrow. So... it was really freaky having such animosity from my kid's pediatrician about seeing a developmental optometrist. 

Yeah, I got that here, too.  And the ophthalmologist basically called all Developmental Optometrists quacks.  But then he also said there was no such thing as dyslexia.  :)  Ignore your primary care doctor regarding Developmental Optometrists.  They get a bad wrap and it is really, REALLY annoying.  And unprofessional.  It is like they are the unwanted step children of a dysfunctional family but the other professionals don't want to actually do the research to find out that these vision issues REALLY DO EXIST and the therapies CAN work.  Ugh!

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Oh, and glad you were able to get the ball rolling on the the evals.

 

Hey, awesome on getting piles of free stuff, too!  I am looking forward to this weekend.  I really need to keep myself under control though. I am currently trying to purge all the piles of educational stuff I have.  Mom and Dad both were HUGE on learning.  They lived to learn.  When I started homeschooling 2 years ago Mom gave me a lot of resource materials and bought us quite a few items to use.  I bought a lot as well.  I found lots at clearance sales, others gave me bunches of stuff or sold it to me cheap, and many families lent me things then decided they didn't need them back.  I also have all the text books and support material I was buying used on-line for when the kids were still in brick and mortar so I could help them after school.  And now I have a hard time keeping it organized.  I get overwhelmed sometimes.  I need to cull it all down to a manageable size.  And I keep thinking that there are probably other families in our area that could really use a lot of it.  But wow, is it HARD to do.  :)

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I envy my friends who live in apartments or rowhouses. They don't have lots of space and they are able to shave stuff down, and let go of a lot of stuff in their house. I come from a bunch of hoarders. LOL Sentimental and "what if I need it?" mentality.I got LLATL for 1st and 2nd level free. 

 

So I went to the eye doc's and he had slight astigmatism and near sightedness so he's going to go get glasses! I did schedule with him some more tests with the developmental optometrist, but I am thinking that maybe I should just let him try his glasses out first and maybe it might be a motivator? And just wait to have him do the testing with the Developmental optometrist? I was thinking that maybe I should let the school system handle other testing first before I pay out of pocket $200 plus for the developmental optometrist fees? I am not really happy with paying so much outta pocket yet. The regular eye exam plus glasses just made me fork over $220 today. I really want to try these new methods out first and the glasses, and see before I plunk down more moolah. 

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I envy my friends who live in apartments or rowhouses. They don't have lots of space and they are able to shave stuff down, and let go of a lot of stuff in their house. I come from a bunch of hoarders. LOL Sentimental and "what if I need it?" mentality.I got LLATL for 1st and 2nd level free. 

 

So I went to the eye doc's and he had slight astigmatism and near sightedness so he's going to go get glasses! I did schedule with him some more tests with the developmental optometrist, but I am thinking that maybe I should just let him try his glasses out first and maybe it might be a motivator? And just wait to have him do the testing with the Developmental optometrist? I was thinking that maybe I should let the school system handle other testing first before I pay out of pocket $200 plus for the developmental optometrist fees? I am not really happy with paying so much outta pocket yet. The regular eye exam plus glasses just made me fork over $220 today. I really want to try these new methods out first and the glasses, and see before I plunk down more moolah. 

Well, to be honest I would have done the eye exam through the Developmental Optometrist, not the normal eye doctor so you could kill two birds with one stone.  Plus, with some vision issues you would need prisms in the glasses which would come up in the Developmental eye exam.  You don't want to have to pay for two different pairs of glasses.  The Developmental Optometrist does the normal eye stuff, too.  You don't have to go to two separate eye exams.  I am sorry.  I guess I didn't make that very clear at all.  I guess at this point you might just hope the normal vision screening did the trick....?

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Ours was like that - the first visit was a 'regular' exam that just decided if a 2nd one with different tests was necessary.   It is one of the things I consider 'odd' about my COVD though - because the 2nd set of tests was never redone, only the one time - and not even when we went back and did more VT a couple years later.  So the results were interesting but apparently meaningless.   The 1st time through I assumed they used the results of the tests to determine her progression but the 2nd time through I tried to get them to tell me how they decided what exercises needed to be done a number of times and only got the run around.    Based on some google-ing on VT my theory is they followed a set script for aprox half of each session and that the other half was at the therapists discretion.

 

Note: In spite of all my reservations (documented in various posts on this board) about my COVD, DD had a jump in reading speed/tracking both times doing VT.  Also I finally found a way to get her to do the Brock string daily on her own (2 months now) and she has had another jump in speed/tracking.  

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Ours was like that - the first visit was a 'regular' exam that just decided if a 2nd one with different tests was necessary.   It is one of the things I consider 'odd' about my COVD though - because the 2nd set of tests was never redone, only the one time - and not even when we went back and did more VT a couple years later.  So the results were interesting but apparently meaningless.   The 1st time through I assumed they used the results of the tests to determine her progression but the 2nd time through I tried to get them to tell me how they decided what exercises needed to be done a number of times and only got the run around.    Based on some google-ing on VT my theory is they followed a set script for aprox half of each session and that the other half was at the therapists discretion.

 

Note: In spite of all my reservations (documented in various posts on this board) about my COVD, DD had a jump in reading speed/tracking both times doing VT.  Also I finally found a way to get her to do the Brock string daily on her own (2 months now) and she has had another jump in speed/tracking.  

Awesome on the jumps.  Yeah!

 

What I don't get is Hottater's eye doc giving the child glasses BEFORE the other evals.  What if the child needs prisms?  2nd set of glasses?  Just seems strange to me. 

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The 2nd time we did VT, the Dr. gave DD glasses before the VT.   They appeared to be just reading glasses (but may have had something specific for her eyes - I know I love my reading glasses I got at the same time vs over the counter ones - too bad that Dr. moved and I dislike the other Dr. ).   DD wanted glasses so bad before that - and after was 'eh' about the glasses - she will wear them occasionally on her own recognizance but says they only make things bigger and don't help otherwise.

 

However... I would not think glasses for nearsightedness would help with reading at all.  Those are for far vision not near.

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Awesome on the jumps. Yeah!

 

What I don't get is Hottater's eye doc giving the child glasses BEFORE the other evals. What if the child needs prisms? 2nd set of glasses? Just seems strange to me.

I would recommend the OP hold off on filling any eyeglass prescriptions until seen by the COVD.

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That's the thing, I just called the eye doc's office -- She is a covd doc. She is doing the "developmental test" next week and the optometrist aides said that she wouldn't have suggested that that he get glasses if there was an issue, because she knew about the developmental test next week. Astigmatism is a light refraction problem. My son has slight astigmatism. I have it too. (I can't believe I didn't think about it earlier!) That is corrected by regular glasses (even with near sightedness or far sighted ness). That may be one of the issues that he takes so long. If the astigmatism causes the eye to blur any thing he sees, because light gets scattered within the eye easy then that could be one reason why he takes so long to do word problems, etc. What he reads gets distorted a tad, and he takes a lot longer to cover any written material. I wonder if because the astigmatism may distort what he writes, he just doesn't want to write anything because he's too afraid of #1 imperfect spelling, and #2 the astigmatism blurring it in the first place. Simple eye correction by reflective coating and glasses could be the whole issue.. Holy moly.I hope it's the only issue.

 

The problem with thoughts to paper is the biggest issue for me in writing. And on Math, he did do some Crazy things on the singapore review equations at the end of book 2b-   like subtracting the minuend from the subtrahend of a double digit equation. He learned this all last year and reviewed it this year.  I had to make him use his scratch paper on the stanford 10, cause he was just guessing. He's been through Both Singapore math and Math u see. Math u see, of course is VERY sequential black and white and mastery. I did all MUS first -the whole of level 3(gamma). Then I did Singapore math - very colorful, has concrete to abstract math and very mental math oriented all of US edition 2A and 2B. I am thinking that the abstraction in singapore is causing him to confuse his order of operations. He wants to do it mentally without writing it down, but is still not well versed enough in his math facts (which I thought he knew because we drilled it) to complete it their way quick enough. With ALL of the equations he has done in both math programs book I am surprised he didnt know his math facts well enough by now. The borrowing from the prior column shocked me too. It was odd, he would forget to put one less the number that got crossed out and would just plug a 9 on top, assuming all numbers were zero. I hope that the astigmatism correction is all he needs I hope I am not dealing with other more difficult processing issues.

 

Just got off the phone! We decided to get the developmental test done next week. Thank goodness, they are only going to charge us one co-pay because we have a health insurance that would pay for it. Out of pocket expense would have been $430 for the developmental visit! Thank goodness, that my hubby has a great benefits package, I should be refunded some money because they put the charges into the  wrong insurance company. 

 

 

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Dianne Craft -Teaching the Right Brain Child video wow for spelling for my vsl/kinesthetic learner and - WOW --- I just used her method but with AAS tiles and he spelled the 4 previously misspelled spelling words backwards. Easily. Holy cow, I think I get it.. My ds is a visual spatial/kinesthetic learner but the astigmatism gets him staring off into space trying to focus sometimes. 

 

 

  for multiplication I'm gonna test it out. Hmmm... a lot like www.multiplication.com 
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Just got his scores back for the sat 10, he was below average on everything related to reading except for his vocabulary. I knew his science scores would be awesome, math is average... Thinking about red shirting him and if I should red shirt him ie... Keep him back a grade? Disappointing seeing all the red bar lines. My vsl is totally red bar (below on the listening skills...) definitely NOT an auditory learner! All of the reading portion was administered by my friend. :( He would have never made it in public school. Wow.

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I will be honest, I don't get using the term "red shirting" or even using grade levels within a homeschooling environment.  My kids aren't in school so we don't have to stick with a strictly "grade level" assessment based on birth date of where the child should be.  I already know where they are in terms of performance and understanding and no one else (except DH) needs to know one way or the other.  I realize in many states, for reporting purposes, you have to make a determination regarding this.  Are you in one of those states?  In that case, yes, it makes sense to keep an eye on the "label" but I wouldn't use it in terms of planning so much.  I go at the ability and pace of the child and I think in terms of the individual skill areas, not an overall grade level assignment for my kids.

 

Not sure I am making sense.   I advance or review my kids in whatever individual materials we are using as they are ready or demonstrate a need for additional help.  For example, DS would be about 3rd grade level at the moment in most areas of math.  There are certain areas he is closer to 5th grade and maybe one or two that he is smoother at the 2nd grade level.  Some concepts he understands at a much more advanced level than 5th.  I would have a hard time deciding what his "grade level" would be in this area.  I will be working on the weaker areas while allowing him to continue to move forward in the areas he is not struggling.  

 

Both kids are using a reading/spelling program that doesn't even have grade levels so it isn't equivalent.   I know that once DS  and DD complete the entire program, if they have reached mastery, they will be at about 9th grade level in reading and spelling, whether that takes them 6 more months or 10 years.  They will just continue moving at their pace through this program and I will not stress about a "grade level" since there is no such thing with Barton.

 

Content areas like science and history we just watch DVDs, do experiments, read books, do some on-line activities and don't really worry about grade level.  If material seems too basic we look for more advanced material.  If material is too advanced, we try to find ways to make it make more sense and increase base knowledge, vocabulary and conceptual understanding.

 

In other words, since you KNOW that he is struggling in certain areas but you are still trying to determine what those areas are, unless there is some sort of state reporting issue, I wouldn't even worry about "grade level" right now.  I would write down goals for the year and work to achieve those goals.  Example:  By the end of this next year I hope that DD will be solid on Fractions, Decimals, Percents, and basic understanding of several Pre-Algebra/Algebra concepts, as well as continuing to solidify her functionality in multiplication (she already has the concept down).  I am not assigning a grade level for her math.  I know what she needs to learn to be able to move solidly into Algebra and will work on those things with her.  Does that make any sense?

 

Best wishes.  :)

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Story girl, Singapore is spiral.

 

One step-As much as I love homeschooling, I keep on top of what our local school system does because, if I held him behind earlier, it would be a less catastrophic effect on self esteem now than later if he ever had to go into the system and getting held back in a later grade. I think other than science all the other grades were average but that was because I helped him. Had I not helped it would have been way lower.I forced him to write out all his math problems and spelling words. I never gave him answers. Yes, I know where he is. But it also helps to know how he would do In xyz curriculum based on grade. We do report to our county reviewers the grade they are in.

 

Also has anyone ever heard of the Irlen Syndrome? I hope my eye doc tests that too!

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Story girl, Singapore is spiral.

 

One step-As much as I love homeschooling, I keep on top of what our local school system does because, if I held him behind earlier, it would be a less catastrophic effect on self esteem now than later if he ever had to go into the system and getting held back in a later grade. I think other than science all the other grades were average but that was because I helped him. Had I not helped it would have been way lower.I forced him to write out all his math problems and spelling words. I never gave him answers. Yes, I know where he is. But it also helps to know how he would do In xyz curriculum based on grade.

 

Also has anyone ever heard of the Irlen Syndrome? I hope my eye doc tests that too!

I understand what you are saying.  I guess I don't understand what you mean by redshirting if he isn't in school.

 

And yes, I have heard of Irlen Syndrome.  Barton actually takes that into account in her Barton materials.  Unfortunately, with some people including some professionals, there is this assumption  that ALL dyslexics have Irlen Syndrome, which isn't true.   I agree, it would be a good idea to test for it, though.

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Edited to add that our county expects us to state his grade level.

Then, yes obviously you have a much different situation than I do.

 

FWIW, if I had to state a grade level I guess I would go by what they would be if they had followed on through the normal brick and mortar track they were on before we pulled them out, but honestly that would not even remotely reflect where they are actually at in terms of conceptual understanding and performance.  If I had to report on what "grade level" materials we are using I think it would be really difficult to do.  I have to use whatever level of materials they are ready for.  I know with my kids, at least, we are in this for the long haul.  If I don't rush, if I work with them daily on the areas they struggle, as well as the areas they excel, then eventually we will get through high school level material in ALL subjects.  But I know I cannot force them into material they aren't ready for, nor do I want to hold them back in areas they are thriving.  We did that whole thing before and it was a colossal mistake on both ends.  It put them back years instead of getting them ahead.

 

But again, our situations are different.  Best wishes.

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Story girl, Singapore is spiral.

 

 

 

I wasn't sure about this myself, so I just did a quick search, and what I'm turning up in other WTM threads is that Singapore is a mastery program. Not to contradict.  I don't even use it (though we did for a year in the beginning). But I don't think it is what most people think of when they talk about a spiral math approach.

 

About redshirting... I started calling my oldest a kindergartener at age four, because she was ready to read and, a few months away from her birthday, was at the same readiness level as her five year old friends. We didn't have to label her for school reporting purposes. Even so, a year later, I decided to readjust her grade level so that she would be aligned with same-age peers, because I saw that she was going to struggle with math.  My kids do want to know what grade they are in, and they participate in church and extracurricular activities where grade levels are important factors for class placement, so we do consider them to be in a certain grade, even though our state does not require us to report it.  Just today at a doctor's visit we were asked what grade DS is in. So we like to have something to answer. So for a year and a half, we called her a first grader, and a for a year and a half we called her a second grader.  We didn't change our curriculum or educational approach; we just adjusted what grade we labeled her. And it was fine. Not a big deal.  Now if we were to decide that now, at age twelve, it would be a big deal to her. So I would say that if you think he should be considered a grade lower, make the adjustment sooner rather than later.  You can always bump him ahead a grade later or have him graduate early if he manages to bolt ahead of expectations in future years, right? So it's not an irreversible choice. It's just an easier adjustment to make when they are younger.

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I have no opinion about your decision to red shirt though I do sense an urgency, or maybe it is just your impatience. Does a decision to red shirt have to be made this instant? How can you make an informed decision without testing results? You have not fully implemented accommodations long enough to know whether your DS will realize any success. Have you spoken with a highly experienced learning specialist or been advised by some higher authority in your state?

 

In the future, consider having a disinterested third party provide the testing. Since you place such a heavy emphasis on it, the least you could do is administer the exams with integrity. It's crazy to me that you forced your child to take the stupid thing, pointed out every mistake to him, and now discount the result. Your local friend doesn't even see a problem with your child. Is it possible that you just need to stand back and take a breather? Perhaps slow down, gently accommodate his weaknesses, and use appropriate curriculum in the manner it was intended? Your DS may simply need supports and time. BTW, he will need supports and time whether you hold him back a year or not.

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Hottater, when do you have to report grade level?  And do you have to submit your curriculum choices?  Does someone review what you are doing?

 

If you can wait to report a grade while you seek evaluations and what to do with those evals, I would.  If you have to go ahead and report then I guess I would go ahead and move him (on paper) into the grade lower than his birthday indicates.  But for actual teaching, to be honest I would back way off for now, pick certain areas you KNOW are weak and focus on those in positive, supportive ways through the summer while you are seeking answers.   I would teach him at whatever level he is actually at without stressing over grade level for materials chosen, and I would work on shoring up just a couple of specific weak areas, boosting his confidence, and I would mainly work on finding his strengths and areas of interest and focusing on those quite heavily, etc., whatever materials that requires, while you seek out what the issues may be.  

 

I obviously do not live in your home and have no idea how much you focus on his interests and strengths, but I really encourage you to keep those things at the forefront of whatever you do.  DD especially had reached a point by 4th grade where she was so demoralized I believe she was probably clinically depressed.  We worked so hard on her weak areas while she was in school, and just pounded the material over and over and over, and stressed so much about tests and standardized tests that we totally missed her strengths and areas of interest.  All that kept being put in front of her were her weaknesses.  She was beginning to feel that there was no joy or point to life.  I finally realized just how demoralizing it was for her to see only her weaknesses in the things we were doing.  Now that we homeschool I have been able to help her discover her areas of interest and work with her strengths to help her find ways to tackle harder material.  We make mistakes. We don't always get it right.  But she is SO MUCH happier and more motivated now.

 

Best wishes.

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Heathermomster- the reading portion that he took was from a disinterested third-party. He scored below average on all of that. Including the listening portion which I administered was very fair, he also tested below average. My dh administered the science (way above avg) and social studies portion (average). I have school portfolio next month and will need to tell my evaluator what grade he will be in. The developmental eye test is next week. I hope the eyeglasses help and such. And you are right I am 3 weeks premature withe the redshirting question. I am pretty certain that had I not made him go over his questions and write out his thoughts on scratch paper that there would've been more red below average on the Stanford 10 test but i may have not thoroughly taught him those testing skills on pretests. So length of the test time that he took is partially my fault during the math and spelling only, but at the same time, his little sister outpaces him on homework time. She did reading writing and spelling in the time it took him to just do his writing which was copying a grandmother's letter from his workbook yesterday. He took an hour and a half. Her writing is a long bible scripture. Her reading lesson is Opgttr and her spelling is spelling workout. We had a quick break in between and I accounted for that. So I know that his slowness now could be accounted for because of astigmatism. I am excited that he will be getting glasses. I needed the Stanford testing too, cause I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to assessing English skills. Our material has been very eclectic. And sometimes I don't know how thorough I am being in the teaching that we do or curriculum choice.

 

Story-Singapore is long spiral compared to Abeka but still spiral. Mus is totally mastery approach.you do addition the entire year, subtraction the entire year, etc.

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Yeah cross posted - didn't see one step's post, I hear you guys on the demoralizing. I hope to put a positive spin on the red shirting if that's what we decide to do. We can start reading more historical fiction and science like magic school bus. We had but only little spurts this year. His interests are in science and we spend LOTS of time on it. Art is his interest too, but we don't get much in because of all the other necessary subjects.

If he does have more issues aside from the astigmatism, I'm more prepared with other teaching modes and curriculum for teaching than I was before. Except for writing. He likes spectrum more but hates writing in general. I will focus him on typing it out maybe?

 

One step- Yes we submit curriculum choices too on our review.

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Yeah cross posted - didn't see one step's post, I hear you guys on the demoralizing. I hope to put a positive spin on the red shirting if that's what we decide to do. We can start reading more historical fiction and science like magic school bus. We had but only little spurts this year. His interests are in science and we spend LOTS of time on it. Art is his interest too, but we don't get much in because of all the other necessary subjects.

If he does have more issues aside from the astigmatism, I'm more prepared with other teaching modes and curriculum for teaching than I was before. Except for writing. He likes spectrum more but hates writing in general. I will focus him on typing it out maybe?

 

One step- Yes we submit curriculum choices too on our review.

I am really pondering how we would handle that.  At one point it looked like we might be moving to a state where it would be an issue.  Now, it looks more like we are staying in a state where it isn't.  Does the state allow you to take into consideration areas of learning difficulties and strengths?  Like, for example. if your child were technically supposed to be in 4th grade but was capable of 7th grade level math and was only reading fluently at a 2nd grade level, how would the state handle that scenario?  Do you have to use "grade level" curriculum across the board?  What if you were using something that didn't even equate to grade levels?  

 

Sorry for all the questions.  I am just really curious and trying to get the big picture here.  Hope you don't mind.  :)

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Reviewers -They do not dictate what type of curriculum or what grade level the curriculum is Ă¢â‚¬â€œ we as parents do that. So for instance, Singapore math it's in levels it's not in grades the suggested grade level for a third grader is 2b and 3a. So I am just teaching him at where he is. He has just finished 2b-- with some issues. So I will be remediating the parts that he does not understand. I don't know if he will be done 3a by the time September rolls around. So if he isn't then it would be better to remediate him and say that he is on third grade again for our ds then to push them forward into where everybody else levels their work. Because everyone asks, "what grade are you in?" And they cover division in 4th. He's not ready for it. Some of his math facts and double digit work has gotten confused. My kid is a half a year behind across the board it seems for typical 3rd grade work with the exception of science. States don't have control of the curriculum you choose or the level, just that you do have to show it on your form what you are using to teach xyz.

 

I mentioned before, never having taken Stanford or other tests before, maybe I should have shown him test taking skills before the Stanford. I know i screwed up the testing a tad, but it was done in a fairer way-- I didn't tell him answers, I just helped him go over his stuff intentionally rather than just skim and put down guesses. Wouldn't it have been more demoralizing to let him see everything in the red, knowing he didn't understand test taking skills? There wasn't any writing on the 3rd grade Stanford 10 so...other the what I hear other students doing in that grade, that's where I derive "normal third grade."

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Thanks for the more detailed explanation of what is expected of you from your state.  I understand much better now.  

 

Since we started homeschooling as kind of an emergency procedure I am eternally grateful that we were in a state that requires pretty much nothing in the way of reporting.  It took quite a bit to get our footing in the beginning.  I was totally clueless about homeschooling or how to deal with the specific learning issues that came up in the evals. :)  Now, I think I could work things out pretty well.  Back then I would have been terrified.   :lol:

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Let me put it another way -- Could it be that he needs a math program that is more spiral than what you are using? I keep bringing this up, because it took me several tries to find a program that would work for my math-challenged daughter but now she is thriving. Honestly, it is a minor miracle, and so it is a major deal to me. You say he didn't grasp everything in the level he just finished and you will need to remediate. Maybe that is a sign that Singapore is not the right choice for him? It wasn't right for us, even though that is what we started with. We tried Singapore, Saxon (twice), and Horizons, and nothing worked for her.  When I say we tried them, I don't mean that we did a few lessons and then gave up.  We went through several grade levels of each, trying very hard to make them work.

 

I don't mean to harp on it.  You know him best, of course, but it doesn't seem that what you are using is working for him. Have you looked at CLE? They have placement tests on their website (clp.org), so it's a good place to get an idea about where his gaps are. CLE is the program that is magic for my daughter.  I learned about it on these forums. I think if you keep looking, you might find something that works better than Singapore for your son, but of course it is your call.

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story- No, I totally get you. I have had problems with that myself. Knowing what to give up and what to keep and just get extra practice. Abeka math - he did spiral and in 3 months did all of kindergarten math without me using the teacher's manual. Math u see, was ok... until the word problems. My friend said schiller math might be a better choice too. But I am just wondering if he's just not practicing things in his mind well enough. He loved the switch to colorful singapore, but their mental math is great but he isn't linking the some concepts fast enough before it moves forward. Carrying of concepts in the order of operations is getting him bogged down at times. Or, just reading the word problems. See, I don't have enough time in the day to do full intensive teacher programs for all subjects- I have to mind the other kids in my house. I need to have him work some independent work. I don't know how to accomplish this. I will be having his LD testing by our school system this month hopefully before school lets out. 

Whatever math program - it must be colorful and less time intensive on the teacher. CLE - is it for a VSL? Is it very teacher intensive? 

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