blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am bringing my daughter home to school in the fall. She will technically be a third grader. She is very behind and is in the midst of being evaluated privately. Here is a story she wrote tonight on her own. :( The Tiger Cat and the Scunk Dog Once ther wus a Tiger cat she wus rich and famise (famous) and her frind wus pur (poor) so she gave him mune (money). One day the Tiger Cat smeld the Dog he smeld bad she sed Knwe (no) wunder yie (why) you are cold scunk Dog you smel blad (bad) you ned (need) to take a bath then you will smel good so he tok a bath and he smeld good. Where do I begin? She is coming along in reading but none of it is translating to spelling. I was waiting until I finished Dancing Bears Fast Track with her (10 lessons) left and then thought I would start AAS with her since I already have it. Should I take a different approach? I am at a total loss. How do I help her? And to think they were going to promote her to third grade!! Thank you for your suggestions, Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, given the adoration of invented spelling in ps, her writing would probably be judged fine there! But I understand your concerns. I think I'd do a couple of things if I were you: I'd really focus on a phonics-based spelling program - AAS should work fine - and then I'd probably try WWS 2. The good thing about WWS 2 is that you have two separate skills that you spend the year practicing: the first is narration, where you learn gradually to pick out the main points in a story. The second is copywork/dictation, where you learn to get coherent English sentences written down, correctly. Practice those two skills - coming up with want you want to say, and figuring out how to get your words down on paper coherently - separately, for as long as it takes, until they both start to get fluid and automatic. *Then* start putting them together, by having her write her own original stories. Given the tiny amount of info I have right now, I might suggest that you start with WWE2, do about half of it, then try out CAP's Writing & Rhetoric program - book one, Fable, would get your dd starting to write her own short narratives, along with practicing copywork, dictation, and basic sentence manipulation skills. Don's panic! She just needs some basic work in phonics and spelling, and she will start to be able to get her ideas down on paper in a more coherent way! For you, I might suggest two resources: One would be SWB's lecture on elementary writing: http://peacehillpress.com/audiobooks-lectures/a-plan-for-teaching-writing-focus-on-the-elementary-grades-mp3-download/ or, if you prefer the book: http://peacehillpress.com/language-arts/the-complete-writer-writing-with-ease-instructor-text/ Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiMi 4under3 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, given the adoration of invented spelling in ps, her writing would probably be judged fine there! I think I'd do a couple of things if I were you: I'd really focus on a phonics-based spelling program - AAS should work fine - and then I'd probably try WWS 2. :iagree: My fourth grader still writes like this :( We're doing Barton over the summer starting June 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thank you so much for your reply. Should I use a grammar program along with AAS and WWE2? How about FLL and if so, what level would you suggest? I was originally considering ELTL but I am rethinking my choices now. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm not sure what ELTL is - is that a Charlotte Mason program? If it is, it would cover grammar as thoroughly as you need to at this level, yet gently. and also have some good narration and copywork practice. I think that would be a great thing to use alongside phonics and WWS. But maybe it's something else entirely. . . Some people really like FLL. It is thorough but very repetitive. We didn't like it here, but again, many do enjoy it. I think all you need at this point is something to cover the very basics - parts of speech, parts of the sentence - and basic mechanics. I think if you do go with FLL, FLL3 would be fine, it's on her grade level and everything is repeated in all the levels, so you don't have to have completed the first two to start with FLL3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thank you again for your reply. ELTL is English Lessons through Literature. I am not sure if using it along with WWE would be too repetitive. If not FLL do you have any other suggestions for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I think ELTL looks great! If it appeals to you, why not use that? My older dd really enjoyed MCT's language arts - you guys would want the Island level - but I've been eyeballing something like ELTL for my younger. There is also a fun (and free!) vintage grammar called GrammarLand, and someone here has kindly shared worksheets she made to go with it. It teaches the parts of speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I can't thank you enough, Rose. Truly! I feel so much better already. Thank you for your generosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 My DS is in 3rd grade and your daughter's writing is not all that different from my DS's; the inventive spelling is a product of public school and I have spent all year beating this bad spelling habit out of my 6th grade daughter. We did the following for my DD and we have seen tremendous improvement:1. A grammar program that is simple and works (we use MCT). MCT Island level would work really well for your daughter; we will be using it with my DS next year. 2. Make sure your daughter knows how to read phonetically so that she can sound out simple words in order to spell them properly. If she doesn't know letter sounds, you'll need to teach that first. Is she a good reader who comprehends what she reads? 3. Do not let the inventive spelling slide; have your daughter correct every misspelled word, every time. Teach her to use a dictionary. Part of my own daughter's problem with spelling was laziness because they had told them in public school that inventive spelling was OK. 4. Have her start writing at the basic level. That means forget the paragraphs that they typically teach in 3rd-4th grade. Make sure your daughter can compose a well-written sentence first before you move on to paragraphs. For example, my DD was writing 5-paragraph essays when she came out of public school in 6th grade. They had great structure, she expressed her ideas in a organized way, and she could write a mean introduction and conclusion. But aye-yi-yi, the spelling and grammar were atrocious! We backtracked this year to just paragraphs and worked on writing a quality (in every sense of the word) paragraph only. We'll move to essays when I feel she's ready, probably next year some time in 7th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin'sMom Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I liked her story. It was imaginative and flowed well. She spelled once and one correctly, which leads me to believe that she just needs some basic spelling help. Many of the words she misspelled lacked only one or two letters, and all but a couple of things were easily recognizable. Her story made me want to bathe one of my "scunk" dogs. I'll bet she will catch up quickly with some one on one help. I make index cards of the words my son misspells, but I don't correct his creative writing directly. I wait a few days and then I present them as spelling words. He almost always gets them right after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifesadream83 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Kids that read well will have horrible spelling unless they are drilled. AAS is awesome and we love it however, I chose not to start spelling until third grade. If you are going to start WWE give her the plavemnt test first, she is not likely ready for level two. I would start with level 1 and FLL2. Just my opinion. I love TWTM products and swear by the book LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thank you again for the replies. To answer a few questions, my daughter struggles all the way around. Her reading has greatly improved since starting DB Fast Track but she is still choppy and often misreads silent e words. Her comprehension is poor. For instance, she was asked in her math book we are using to remediate her to draw a pair of apples in a bowl and originally she drew four. It wasn't because she doesn't know what a pair is but because she was unsure of what was being asked of her. I do believe after looking at the placement test that the narration exercises may be too difficult in WWE2. I will probably take a closer look at WWE1. I read to her every night and she is starting to choose books to read to me. Her current read a loud is Amelia Bedelia. How much should I challenge her with reading? Should I continue to keep it very light or encourage her to choose more challenging books? Any book suggestions for me? Thank you again for all the hand holding. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If her reading and comprehension is poor in 3rd grade, I would definitely look at teaching her phonics from the ground up. I can't offer any specifics on that because I never taught by kids to read; the public school did and they apparently did a good job, because my kids are good readers. But not every kid can cope with the sight-words and whole language instruction and they'll need phonics. Maybe someone who has taught a young child how to read phonetically can guide you on that part. Thank you again for the replies. To answer a few questions, my daughter struggles all the way around. Her reading has greatly improved since starting DB Fast Track but she is still choppy and often misreads silent e words. Her comprehension is poor. For instance, she was asked in her math book we are using to remediate her to draw a pair of apples in a bowl and originally she drew four. It wasn't because she doesn't know what a pair is but because she was unsure of what was being asked of her.I do believe after looking at the placement test that the narration exercises may be too difficult in WWE2. I will probably take a closer look at WWE1. I read to her every night and she is starting to choose books to read to me. Her current read a loud is Amelia Bedelia. How much should I challenge her with reading? Should I continue to keep it very light or encourage her to choose more challenging books? Any book suggestions for me?Thank you again for all the hand holding.Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thank you again for the replies. To answer a few questions, my daughter struggles all the way around. Her reading has greatly improved since starting DB Fast Track but she is still choppy and often misreads silent e words. Her comprehension is poor. For instance, she was asked in her math book we are using to remediate her to draw a pair of apples in a bowl and originally she drew four. It wasn't because she doesn't know what a pair is but because she was unsure of what was being asked of her. I do believe after looking at the placement test that the narration exercises may be too difficult in WWE2. I will probably take a closer look at WWE1. I read to her every night and she is starting to choose books to read to me. Her current read a loud is Amelia Bedelia. How much should I challenge her with reading? Should I continue to keep it very light or encourage her to choose more challenging books? Any book suggestions for me? Thank you again for all the hand holding. Lisa Definitely let her choose books to read aloud to you that are fun for her, and that she can feel successful reading. Keep reading aloud to her - read aloud to her tons and tons and tons! As much as she'll tolerate, fiction and nonfiction. This will help with the comprehension, vocabulary, and background knowledge she'll need to succeed in comprehending more challenging books. Honestly, at this stage, reading aloud to her for history and science will probably be more useful than having her do activities, kits, or worksheets. Definitely work through the phonics program. And then perhaps at a different time from her fun, easy reading aloud to you, give her something that is *slightly* challenging to read aloud, but only for 5 minutes to start with. You read it aloud to her, then have her read it aloud back to you. Do this modelled read alouds with the more challenging books, slowly working up to where she can sustain it for longer periods. It's good for a kid to be reading on 3 levels - fun, easy things that they can be successful with, to build fluency, on-level things that challenge them to practice new skills, and above-level things that give them new vocabulary and comprehension opportunities. Read aloud the 3rd category for awhile, but keep in mind that all three levels are useful, so while you should gradually introduce more challenging reading for her, don't take away the chance for her to read fun easy things and feel successful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 That is a great plan. Thank you. She is feeling successful and I am seeing her become more confident reading Amelia Bedelia. It is nice to see. I have one more question for Rose or anyone else who would like to respond. Do you feel that WWE and ELTL (Lauguagr Lessons through Literature) would be redundant? I am worried about the fact that FLL is so scripted? Is there any written work? She seems to like worksheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 That is a great plan. Thank you. She is feeling successful and I am seeing her become more confident reading Amelia Bedelia. It is nice to see. I have one more question for Rose or anyone else who would like to respond. Do you feel that WWE and ELTL (Lauguagr Lessons through Literature) would be redundant? I am worried about the fact that FLL is so scripted? Is there any written work? She seems to like worksheets. I think WWE and ELTL would be redundant. What level of ELTL were you going to start with? We are doing level two. If she likes worksheets and she has pretty good stamina for handwriting, you could do FLL3 (3 has a workbook). You could use ELTL and FLL3. Or WWE1 and FLL3. I like FLL3 MUCH, MUCH better than FLL 1&2 and it reviews everything from 1&2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Her handwriting is excellent. She definitely encounters struggles with sentence formation as indicated above. I personally am just attracted to ELTL. I was going to have her work with level 2. I am not sure if FLL3 would be over her head. I definitely don't think she could handle WWE2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I don't think FLL3 would be too difficult. You don't have to do prior levels to jump into FLL. It is a workbook but you are sitting there guiding her through part by part. I know how hard WWE2 is (we did about 3/4 before abandoning it) FLL3 is nothing like that. Maybe you could just start with ELTL and then if you want more grammar (part way through the year) you could add FLL3. Or you could accelerate a bit and do 6-7 lessons a week in ELTL. My dd does the copywork while we listen to the stories (I get them all on audiobook), the other lesson stuff in ELTL is pretty fast. So, I've changed my mind. Start off simple with just ELTL and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Well, the good news is I have some time to think about it. Thank you for your input. I am off to look at FLL samples now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Logic of English essentials might be a good fit. It is an all in one program that will remediate reading, teach spelling rules and grammar. The beauty of it is that you can fly through it rapidly where she needs. Or take several years to go through it. There are so many extra suggested activities that you can pick and choose from so that you land right where you need to. The website is great and there are some very thorough videos. One especially helpful one shows what is in the book. http://www.logicofenglish.com/essentials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Thank you. I had actually looked at this awhile back and loved it but I wasn't sure if it would help her enough where writing is concerned. Is this something I would use along with a separate writing program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I would contact Denise Eide via her site. She will probably be able to point you into the right direct as to if you need an additional writing program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I am modifying my previous post based on seeing the Logic of English curriculum at the HEAV convention last weekend. I have decided to wait on MCT (he does have an excellent program, though) and use Logic of English instead, in order to be able to be sure DS is solid in phonics. I think he is, but like I said above, I can't be sure because I didn't teach him to read (the school did) and I want his spelling, grammar, and punctuation to be solid in a year or two. Anyway, I got a chance to look over the whole Logic of English curriculum and really liked what I saw (although we haven't begun using it yet). However, it is only for ages 8 and up and if your DD is younger than that, you may want to go with their foundation package instead. The website has a lot of samples and lessons to peek at. Thank you. I had actually looked at this awhile back and loved it but I wasn't sure if it would help her enough where writing is concerned. Is this something I would use along with a separate writing program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmtzc2009 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 :iagree: My fourth grader still writes like this :( We're doing Barton over the summer starting June 1st. Yep, my 4th grader does too. We're working on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I actually purchased LOE Essentials just today. I was blessed to find it used. I am very excited to use it with my daughter and am glad to know that you were able to view it and are impressed with it. And for the record, my little girl is 8......today is her birthday! Thank you for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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