Debating between afterschooling and hs'ing, and wondering if there's another option...

[nature girl]

I've been strongly considering hs'ing my rising K'er next year, but I haven't been able to find hs'ing families around here (we're in a very rural location) or opportunities for her to socialize. She's an only and somewhat shy around kids, and hasn't made friends in the few classes (dance/swimming/yoga) that we've taken, and I'm worried about being able to give her the exposure to other kids she needs.

 

Have any of you been able to get your school to agree to have you come in every day to teach your kids math? She's now breezing through RSA, we'll be in B by this summer, and I'm pretty sure she won't learn anything at ps. She's also reading quite well, and I don't know that they're able to provide the differentiation she'll need. (Visiting K last month, they were still sounding out CVC words.)

 

So now I'm torn...Do I have her waste the time in K and then afterschool? Afterschooling after hours of seat work seems like too much for a 5yo! K is only half-day, and seems to be mostly academic with little play and no recess, which just feels awful to me. But I know around here there's no way I can provide the socialization she needs...I'm so torn.

[nature girl]

That's the issue, there's very little differentiation until 3rd grade. The teacher said she's had kids who do their own reading during class, but they're basically just sitting to one side while she's teaching the bulk of the class. There's NOTHING for math, so she'd have to re-learn basic addition/measurement/telling time/coins, etc., fill out the same worksheets and bring home the same homework.

 

(FTR, my DD isn't gifted, she's just motivated to learn, self-driven. And I know she won't be happy or fulfilled being forced to spend 3h a day running in place.)

[sunnyday]

Keep in mind that school won't change who she is. It isn't a magical friends-maker, in fact, with mostly class time and no recess I don't see any reason why she should have more chance for socializing than she does in all those many classes. And that's an important distinction BTW -- socialization means learning to behave civilly with human beings. She can do that if she has any kind of human interaction. Socializing means those friendship interactions you're looking for. And frankly, some kids are introverted and don't need a whole lot of socializing.

 

My son has yet to make any close friends just from school. He spent the whole first half of first grade just bouncing a basketball by himself every recess because he couldn't figure out how to play with anyone else. His friendship relationships are mostly from the neighborhood and from soccer, and a little bit from karate (though we live a long way from most of those families).

 

I definitely feel like it's overkill in kindergarten to go to the classroom daily and give a math lesson to an audience of one. You can do math during afterschool or you can just let math ride. She'll pick up a lot of stuff from life. If you want to do a battery of testing and get a gifted IEP in place that's another option but not one I'd be keen on. If she's self-driven she won't mind doing a little more seat work, or doing fun math on the weekend, or whatever.

 

If my daughter goes to kindergarten I'm not expecting any academic progress during class time. We can do actual learning afterschool. Ours is a half-time program where they attend full days every other day. So we have every other day and the weekend to keep enrichment and interest up. It worked out okay for my son so I'm hopeful for my daughter. I think I can keep her working no more than about 2 years ahead in math, and let her do all the reading she wants, and go from there.

[IsabelC]

If you want or need her to be in school, then so be it, that is a perfectly valid choice to make. However, I would recommend against putting her in school for purely social reasons, unless you have good evidence that this school is outstanding in the way it supports socializing and social skills.

 

As stated above, your shy or slow-to-warm-up child will not magically become a social butterfly just because she goes to school. Often, school can be a bit of a jungle for the less socially adept students, and the results can be akin to throwing your reluctant swimmer over Niagara Falls in order to increase her water opportunities. And if the school you are considering is fairly academic in focus, with limited breaks, there won't be that much socializing anyway.

 

Another thing to consider is that it is by no means certain that being in a same age group for hours almost every day is even good for social development (or general learning, for that matter). While many people assume that a peer group should be the main agent of socialization, there is a counter-theory that our current system of age-based segregation leads to disproportionate influence from the peer group, with unhealthy results. There is some evidence that children who grow up in a more diverse/natural social situation with family as the central socializing agent may experience healthier social development.

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you can't provide her with socialization. I wonder whether you could in fact give her adequate social interaction if you broaden your expectations around what this might entail? Interacting with the person in the local store, the elderly neighbor, the mailman, her cousin, or any other people she has contact with is not somehow intrinsically less worthwhile than interacting with other children in kindergarten class.

 

Also, don't forget the less positive potential results of any socializing that happens at school. If your little one is on the more innocent end of the spectrum for her age, there is a good chance that she will come home with stuff you didn't want her to learn yet, from filthy language to precocious fashion ideas and cliquishness. That's in addition to the risk of compromising her eagerness to learn through the curriculum being boring and unchallenging for her. 

 

I'm not actually trying to put you off school. I know nothing about your local school, of course, and it's possible that it will be a great social opportunity for your child. I'm just trying to humbly suggest that you don't uncritically buy into the mainstream assumption that school= socialization=good. 

 

Ps, you may want to have a read of The Well Adjusted Child by Rachel Gathercole, who does a nice job of articulating the possible social benefits home education.

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you actually tried inviting other families from her dancing/swim/yoga classes over to hang out?  Maybe do a "summer is starting" party and invite several families.  Get to know them a bit better and see if any seem to fit well with yours.  If so, then make a play date for another time and plan some activities to give them something to focus on (relieves some of the pressure of a first time play date for those that are shy or a bit reserved).  I agree with IsabelC that being in a school setting does not guarantee close friends and a healthy social setting.  It CAN.  I had good friends in school. But it doesn't guarantee it.  And the only friends that DD and DS were ever sort of close to while they were in school were ones that I invited over to our house to get to know better.  In school they had acquaintances but there really isn't much time to actually have a meaningful conversation or truly play together.  And DD ended up having to verbally (and sometimes physically) defend other classmates against bullies.  She kind of got pretty disgusted with a lot of her classmates by the time she hit 5th grade.

 

Are you an outgoing person?  Or shy?  Or reserved?  If you are both reserved then finding social outlets may be challenging no matter where she is.  And you are right, sitting in a classroom doing things below her ability, with almost no time to play and get to know the other kids really does sound awful for that age.  Are there ANY kids in your area that are near her age?  

[kiwik]

Is K compulsory? Can you simply

keep her home another year then send her to first?

[SKL]

Personally I'd send her and afterschool math.  A half day of KG should not exhaust a child to whom learning comes easy.  She can come home, chillax a bit and then spend a little time on math and later read a fun book.

 

For their KG year, my kids attended school full time, then did their own homework in aftercare, and then we did afterschooling / homeschooling for an hour or so in the evenings and on weekends.  It was not too much for them, and they were young for their grade.  They did not hate school; they were content to do whatever they were supposed to do there.  The classroom was set up to allow free exploration, independent computer time, etc., in addition to group circle time and seat work.  One of my kids was very advanced in terms of knowledge, so I told her to view seat work as handwriting / drawing practice.  The only thing my kids ever complained about was the classmate who had frequent tantrums and struck the other children.

[nature girl]

Thank you all so much, you've given me so much to think about...

 

I guess I'm mostly concerned about her learning to read the social cues from other kids, which seems to be a bit of a problem at this point. My daughter is an interesting bird...She's so comfortable around adults and older children, but seems very intimidated by kids her own age, might play alongside them but doesn't talk to them or engage them in play at all. So she'll approach strangers in the store and have a full conversation, chatter away to older relatives or older kids in the playground without seeming shy at all, but when she's around kids closer to her age she'll say strange things, not react appropriately to things they say or do, or else just act intimidated. I think it's probably because she hasn't had much opportunity to be around other kids her age, our friends' kids and neighborhood kids are all older, and she spends most of her time around adults.

 

But Isabel, you made wonderful points...maybe she doesn't need to develop friendships with peers at this point. It's definitely worth thinking more about, I've put the Gathercole book into my shopping cart, and I'm looking forward to reading it! On the other hand, I do want her to have the kind of close friendships I had growing up, and it makes me sad to think about her not having sleepovers and birthday parties... (I wish I felt comfortable approaching mothers of the kids in her classes, but for the most part they don't hang around during class, I don't even know their names, and Anna hasn't really become friendly with any of their kids.)

 

I feel so drawn to hs'ing, we've had so much fun with the gentle learning we've done together over the past months/years and it feels so right to me, it's like I'm a homeschooler in my soul. If we could have other kids or lived in an area where there were more hs'ing families, there's no question we'd be trying this out for at least the next year or two. I just feel like in some ways friendships are as integral to her development as the 3R's, and I'm worried I might be thinking more about my own wishes than her needs.

[Nart]

I would enroll her since it is half day K, and see how it goes. My son entered K reading fluently (mid to ending second grade level) and doing SM1. He loved K because they had time to do art, music, and recess. His class had recess together in a the kindergarten yard by themselves so he really got to know the other 21 kids well. In first grade all the first and second graders are mixed together which was overwhelming at first. It was really easy to after school him. If you don't like how if goes after the first month pull her out and homeschool.

[Elisabet1]

Which is more important to you...education or quantity of socializing? Remember, just because she gets to socialize all day long does not mean she is getting good quality socialization. And home schoolers still socialize.

[nature girl]

Which is more important to you...education or quantity of socializing? Remember, just because she gets to socialize all day long does not mean she is getting good quality socialization. And home schoolers still socialize.

 

Of course a strong education is important, but really what I want most is for her to be happy. And I just can't imagine a happy childhood without having similar-aged friends, that's the reason I'm torn. I just wish there were more opportunities for her to develop friendships in this area.

[regentrude]

Of course a strong education is important, but really what I want most is for her to be happy. And I just can't imagine a happy childhood without having similar-aged friends, that's the reason I'm torn. I just wish there were more opportunities for her to develop friendships in this area.

 

Just to give some perspective: my DD did attend school from K-6 and never made a similar age friend until 6th grade. Just because they are in a classroom all day with other kids does not mean they make friends.

Being advanced and academically interested can frequently be a social stigma in a culture that values mediocrity. And having mom come in a teach the kid math will make it completely obvious that she is different and, if anything, create more problems and bullying potential.

[SKL]

Different kids have different needs for friendships, too.  If your daughter is happy with the number of friends she has, then don't worry about it.  She is young to have established friendships anyway.

 

One nice thing about school is that it presents a variety of different people (of various ages) so your daughter gets a feel for what is out there.  That does not mean she needs to like all or any of what she sees, but she can observe and notice things that will help her socially in the future.  For example, the limits of charisma.  The prevalence of lying.  The difference between politeness and affection.

 

It's too early to tell IMO, but maybe your daughter is an introvert.  Please don't view this as a defect.  Introverts can still have a high emotional IQ, and while they may not be friends with everyone, their few friendships will be true ones.  I'm a rather extreme introvert who has had a successful life.  I only wish I had accepted who I was at a younger age.

[Nart]

Sometimes it is just luck of the draw. My two kids went to the same daycare.  I really enjoyed meeting and chatting with the parents from my older son's cohort. My older son clicked with several of the boys and we ended up doing a few playdates. He also went to several birthday parties during his three years there.  I can't say the same thing for my younger son who will be in kinder next year. It has been the exact opposite during his five years there. I haven't really met any parents who I enjoy chatting with during drop offs and pickups.  He hasn't done any playdates and has gone to only one birthday party. 

I would enroll her and see how the first month goes.  You might meet some similar minded parents and your daughter might make a friend. 

[Michelle_NC]

You've gotten some really great advice and there's not a whole lot I can add.  I would definitely let her go and experience something new and different, and see how it goes.  You might be surprised.  Keep reading with her at home and doing fun educational things.  But mostly I would help her develop friendship skills since she's already mastered math and reading.  Social is so much more important in the long run!

I'm not talking about popularity, I'm talking about making real connections and learning to be a friend and take an interest in others. This might mean that you need to spend more time arranging play dates or find a girl scout troop or some other social outlet that helps build her confidence in that area.

When my daughter was in K, the stronger students helped the weaker ones and even got to go read with the 1st grade teachers as a special privilege. They helped the teacher with various classroom jobs and got to do some work on their own. Those same kids tended to be in leadership roles in middle and high school too - so there's a benefit to being part of a group no matter what your role is.

This is an exciting time and I hope you both enjoy it!

[KeepItGoing]

If you think the school is good for her in other ways, I definitely wouldn't try to arrange to tech your own child math during the school day. You could either do that after school, or work during the summers, if you're concerned about math. I can't imagine that the benefits she would gain from those daily lessons would be worth the combination of your time and the social impact of having that arrangement.

As for social situations: as others have said, it is not my experience that students necessarily improve socially by being put into a large-group situation. Read the book "Best Friends, Worst Enemies" to see a description of what kids' social life is like in a school situation.

However, I want to offer a different perspective about what others are saying here about different kinds of socializing.

One of my daughters was much like your daughter: great with adults and not so good with kids. I didn't worry much about it. I took her to classes and park days and such, but she didn't make friends there. In a large group she preferred to be off by herself digging in the sand or something.

I don't regret not having her in school. School would have been a disaster for her, I think. What I now regret is that I didn't take more action to put her in one-on-one situations with other kids. If I had it to do over, I'd choose three or four kids and have them over, one at a time, until she began to show a preference for a couple of them.

She lived most of her life without friends until she was twelve or thirteen, and it did cause her suffering and make her think that she was defective in some way. If we had been living in an area without other kids, that might not have been the conclusion she would have drawn. But she saw that other kids had friends, and she didn't. She could only conclude that she was different in some negative way, and it caused her pain.

In her case, her social reactions we due to ADD that left her unable to function in that environment -- and also made her react in unpredictable ways that made other kids wary. Once we got her treated for that at around twelve, things improved rapidly for her. I imagine that's not the case for your child -- but it's worth trying to figure out what may be going on.

[stupidusername]

I'd probably try out kindergarten for a month or two and see how it goes. Worst case, she doesn't make any friends and the academics are a joke. In that case, you simply pull her out of school and homeschool. She is no worse off for the experience.

 

When she is a bit older, I suggest she join a team (gymnastics, soccer, swim) or a good dance company. This would give her a great opportunity to make friends outside of school, allowing you to opt out of the public school should you wish to do so.

 

 

[Ellie]

 

(FTR, my DD isn't gifted, she's just motivated to learn, self-driven. And I know she won't be happy or fulfilled being forced to spend 3h a day running in place.)

 

This is enough reason to keep her home, IMHO. :-)

 

Look for things like scouts, or 4H (when she's older, unless the local 4H club has a Cloverbud group), or some other kind of group.

 

Truly, socializing with other children does not make up for the loss of enthusiasm for learning.

[Berta]

This is enough reason to keep her home, IMHO. :-)

 

Look for things like scouts, or 4H (when she's older, unless the local 4H club has a Cloverbud group), or some other kind of group.

 

Truly, socializing with other children does not make up for the loss of enthusiasm for learning.

 

Exactly.

 

[SunnyDays]

We've been on both sides.... Son attended K-2 in public school, we homeschooled 3rd-5th grades. He did make friends in school as far as people to play with at recess and such, but no deep, lasting friendships. He was a bit of a square peg in a round hole. Once I brought him home, he was happy, but it took a looooong time to get that spark back of wanting to learn.

 

Only you can decide what's best for your daughter... But if you investigate and know for sure that she won't learn much of anything the first year or two, you might want to consider whether that will cause her to become less interested in learning, and whether that's worth it. Just my thoughts... Good luck!

[LikeToListen]

Personally I'd send her and afterschool math.  A half day of KG should not exhaust a child to whom learning comes easy.  She can come home, chillax a bit and then spend a little time on math and later read a fun book.

 

For their KG year, my kids attended school full time, then did their own homework in aftercare, and then we did afterschooling / homeschooling for an hour or so in the evenings and on weekends.  It was not too much for them, and they were young for their grade.  They did not hate school; they were content to do whatever they were supposed to do there.  The classroom was set up to allow free exploration, independent computer time, etc., in addition to group circle time and seat work.  One of my kids was very advanced in terms of knowledge, so I told her to view seat work as handwriting / drawing practice.  The only thing my kids ever complained about was the classmate who had frequent tantrums and struck the other children.

 

This...My daughter is 4yrs old, so I dont have much experience to share.  Though, I thought I could share my thoughts...

 

My daughter goes to a full day day care (9.30-5) but she still needs to learn at home because what she is taught at daycare isn't  enough for her.  She feels much better if I spend an hour or so with her doing new stuff.  I made sure all our curriculums are activity based and is fun for her to do. We are doing RSA and AAR level-1 activities with some evan-moor "early learning thematic" books for fun.  She loves to write too.  I don't do more than 2 topics in a day. 

 

She definitely enjoys it and doesn't get exhausted at all.  In fact, its the other way round.  If we don't do enough, she gets frustrated.  There are days we would just play outside but she NEEDS afterschool. However, I place my focus on her intellectual needs and not how far we are into our lesson plans. This plan does make me exhausted though :)

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm obviously biased as a philosophical homeschooler following a more Classical model of education, so keep that in mind.  But I'd like to question some assumptions I think many parents make:

 

1. Your somewhat shy child may be very emotionally tired after school. A child in that situation is not in the ideal state of mind to learn academics. If your child is an introvert (even a social introvert) being around lots of people most of the day will be emotionally and mentally draining.  If your child is an extrovert, it will be recharging.

 

2. Institutional academic environments do not on their own teach children to read social cues and interact in positive ways. Some have teachers and coaches teaching social skills explicitly, but they're rare exceptions. My nephew goes to a small, private Christian school that consciously teaches and enforces a positive social environment.  He's 11, has a specialist come in to coach him individually on social issues a couple times a week, and he's still completely socially oblivious and can't read obvious facial and other non-verbal cues. Some children the specialist works with are learning it-he's not.

 

3. Academics matter. Emotional happiness matters.  Meeting one of those needs will not make the other go away.  Don't get into "either or" thinking on this.  Tooo many Americans are sacrificing one for the other.  My local public school is a joke academically but parents are soothing themselves by being ignorant of what the academic possibilities are or they're soothing themselves with the idea that if their children are socially happy, then it's all that matters.  It doesn't.  A strong academic foundation matters too.  It's important to find a balance of quality social outlets and quality academics.

 

4. It's not permanent.  You don't have to finish the way you start.  You can change your mind.  You can start out in a grade and decide before the semester or year is over to pull her out.  You don't have to finish elementary school at the institution you started at.  You can have one year go well and decide to pull her out the next.  That may not be the ideal, cohesive education, but it's not the end of the world either. If you leave her in for a while and then pull her out, you may have to modify your homeschooling some and wish you had started earlier, but she can still have a very good, solid home education.

 

5. Quality socialization is done with effort.  We have a culture that has mostly accepted the idea that socialization needs can be met by default-send them to a room full of kids and they'll learn through trial and error how to socialize well. No.  Children who learn to socialize well (no matter where they learn academics) are usually taught and modeled that at home.  A few kids are born with excellent social intuition. If you want your child well socialized, teach and model for her good social skills yourself and do whatever you decide to do when it comes to homeschooling vs. afterschooling.

 

I recommend :

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unwritten-Rules-Friendship-Strategies-Friends/dp/0316917303/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401910789&sr=1-1&keywords=unwritten+rules+of+friendship

 

[katilac]

Another biased home schooler here: I would keep her home. 

 

Yes, being rural does make it tougher to have plays and make friends, but not impossible, especially at her age. I would continue with an outside class or two, and maybe dedicate one day per week, or 2 per month, to going into town and visiting the library, park, zoo, what-have-you. I don't see how that would be more difficult than having her in school everyday. 

 

If she's only 4 now, I think you might be expecting too much if you thought she would be making 'friends' at yoga or dance. Most kids only start moving past parallel play at age 3! And they are generally content to call almost everyone they play with at the park or music class a friend. 

 

Like other posters have noted, school is not a magic bullet for socialization. If there's little play and no recess, when is she supposed to make friends anyway? 

 

4 is very young for you to be concerned about her spending her childhood not having friends or being invited to sleepovers and birthday parties. Are you worried that she has something going on beyond quirkiness? If you are, consider getting an evaluation done. When my dd was 4, she had one done - it was for speech, specifically, but they did the whole shebang of hearing, vision, speech, academics, and so on.  We did ours through the school system with no problems, but you might want to ask around, as each system is different. 

 

 

 

[kiwik]

At that age kids mostly make friends at activities if their parents do. Their best friends will mostly be the children of their parent's friends, relatives or the next door neighbour who is easily accessible. The child has no autonomy and is dependant on you to nurture the relationship. At school they may have friends that they play a lot with but never see outside school - this is not a big deal. They also can have friendships at activities with people who have nothing to do with them at school (and may be unpleasant to them). Like other posters said though you can choose school and reverse the division later. And half day school sounds good if you don't need childcare (not a thing here).