The Privatization of Education in the US [UO, Not JAWM]

[nerdybird]

This is something that has been on my mind recently.

 

A few weeks ago, I was at a chain store with my 3 littles in tow. A lady approached me outside in the parking lot and asked me to sign a petition. It was a petition to end teacher due process (teacher tenure) in schools in the state. I read over the fine print and asked her some questions. My littles were sitting in the van reading and playing with some toys while I spoke with her. She said it was to help get rid of bad teachers and so on. I didn't see anything wrong with the way it was worded and I thought it unlikely to pass in my current home state. So I signed it. Case closed?

 

No.

 

I was searching for information on this bill after reading an article on a local blog about a similar bill passing in a neighboring state. I wanted to know what was really going on with it. And so I stumbled across this piece on a DailyKos blog (DK is a liberal site, fyi.)

 

Frankly, I was surprised to find out what this bill was and how it would effect public education in the state of Kansas. I wondered if the bill in my home state would have similar effects. Would people even care? To top it all off, I felt lied to by the lady who pressured me to sign that petition.

 

In the state of Kansas, the same bill that removed teacher due process also removed teacher certification. And that is truly a sobering thought. When/if my children are ever in a public school, I like knowing that their teachers are certified to be there. I like knowing that they have some experience with education, that they've taken some courses, that they aren't some average joe or josie who is just there to collect a check. Sure, there are some certified teachers like that, but if anyone can walk in with a BS and "some experience", that doesn't say much for the school or the profession as a whole. And what will happen in urban and rural schools who have trouble attracting decent teachers anyway? Will they even have ANY certified educators to teach them or will the classrooms be filled with contract temps and Teach for America hires who fade in and out over the years?

 

********

 

While I was looking for information on the situation in Kansas, I found another article about some school privatization shenanigans going down in Chicago. Apparently, one Rand Paul is promoting a plan that would use public dollars to send public school kids to parochial schools run by the archdiocese of Chicago. It would most likely be yet another glorified voucher program. It would get poor kids into good schools, or so they claim.

 

Here are some quotes from this article:

 

Senator Paul spoke about the importance of school choice, the ability of parents to utilize public funds to access private schools like those operated by the Archdiocese or other not-for-profit or for-profit charter schools organizations. "School choice" is, of course, the standard Republican euphemism for destroying our national system of free public education and replacing it with chains of McSchools that, by firing experienced teachers and replacing them with lesser skilled individuals and online learning and by cutting school programs to the bare minimum, will take the money we're 'wasting' on public education and put it back where it rightly belongs...in the offshore bank accounts of the 1%.

 

The efforts of Senator Paul and fellow Republican 'reformers' will re-segregate our school system (a secondary motivation?) creating a two-tiered system where poor children and minorities will flounder in underfunded remnants of the public schools or low-rent charters while wealthier students thrive in private schools enriched with tax dollars.

 

 

It was also this week that the Economic Policy Institute  released a report analyzing the impacts of privatization on low-income students in the Milwaukee Public Schools.  The full report is lengthy and I haven't yet read it in its entirety, but, in a nutshell, it illustrates how privatization is being pushed not because of any benefit to poor kids but because it lines the pockets of corporate investors. Like any other form of privatization of public assets, this is a means of extracting public funds for private benefit. It is theft.

 

 

The emphasis is mine. These are the parts that really struck me.

 

********

 

Both of these articles got me to thinking that perhaps homeschooling is ultimate privatization of education.

 

The only way that public education will ever change for the better is if people who are educated, passionate and resourceful get involved and stay plugged in. Things won't get better if the people who are really and truly invested drop out of the system or choose not to be part of it. That's the dangerous part about homeschooling and sending your kids to private schools. You quit caring about the public schools that serve the majority. It's selfish to only care about your own kids and maybe the kids in your inner circle. Sure, you should focus your attention on them....but you shouldn't forget those kids who are outside of it and/or in the system either.

 

/thoughts and political ponderings over. ;)

[Word Nerd]

The Kansas bill did get rid of due process--despite many protests---but it did not do away with teacher certification. It provides an alternative path for certification that is limited to certain STEM subjects and accounting/finance; a would-be teacher would need to have a degree in the subject area being taught as well as at least five years of experience in that field. That is the least of my concerns with this bill.

[nerdybird]

Hmm.

 

I suppose this is only dangerous if one perceives it as such. I think that many people in KS have panicked because they see the bill as eroding the quality of education. As if teaching will be a free-for-all career path in KS in the future, that sort of thing.

 

I see this sort of thing as a move towards privatization though. Increasingly, the focus in public education is no longer on improving the existing schools, but on replacing them with alternatives. This removal of due process is basically shrugging at the idea of improving the existing teachers and letting them know that they can and will be replaced with better alternatives if need be.

 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Tackling the school system isn't the only way to promote education. Take a look at the blogs out there. There is more material out there than anyone could tackle in a lifetime, freely available for anyone who feels like looking it up. Being that I'm involved in one of them, I rather resent the suggestion that I'm selfishly interested in only my own children and contribute nothing to the wider world.

 

And while I believe in good quality teacher education training courses, because I've heard of them, I have no reason to respect teacher education in general. Too often it's a joke.

[nerdybird]

Tackling the school system isn't the only way to promote education. Take a look at the blogs out there. There is more material out there than anyone could tackle in a lifetime, freely available for anyone who feels like looking it up. Being that I'm involved in one of them, I rather resent the suggestion that I'm selfishly interested in only my own children and contribute nothing to the wider world.

 

And while I believe in good quality teacher education training, because I've heard of them, I have no reason to respect teacher education in general. Too often it's a joke.

 

Homeschooling parents contribute nothing to the wider world? I didn't say that, nor did I imply it.

 

In the area where I live, many homeschool parents check out of the system and take shots at the local public schools as if they are worthless. Perhaps this is not the case where you reside. Or perhaps it is and you make the best out of your given situation.

 

As far as educational promotion goes, I agree with your points. There are many ways to be involved in doing so without tackling the school system.

[Rosie_0801]

I remember, in grade prep, sitting on the floor of the staffroom with a little baking tray and some magnets focussing very carefully on learning to read music. I didn't get it, but I knew it was something real and if I stuck at it just a little longer, I would achieve enlightenment.

 

In grade one, I found the instructor had been fired because he wasn't a *real* teacher, he only played for the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. And my little girl intelligence was insulted year by year for the rest of primary school when I was obliged to sing "Juicy, Juicy, Green Grass" instead of learning to read music.

 

What is a teaching qualification actually worth? As I said, some people have taken some really useful courses, but plenty of other people regard theirs as a waste of time. I can't imagine getting my knickers in a twist about an instructor without that bit of paper, particularly when it is possible the instructors in the teaching courses don't have that bit of paper either.

 

Sorry. I don't know what your last paragraph in your OP was implying if you weren't implying what you said.

 

And worst of all, I can still remember the words to that stupid song. If they were going to teach something thoroughly, why that?  :huh:  :lol:

[Arcadia]

The only way that public education will ever change for the better is if people who are educated, passionate and resourceful get involved and stay plugged in. Things won't get better if the people who are really and truly invested drop out of the system or choose not to be part of it.

My school district board elections is coming up. The current board members are busy canvassing for compaign funds and neighbors are lobbying for changes that would benefit their kids. People who aren't political dont get elected. Even the PTA's board election was so political that the PTA board had a vote of no confidence and a re-election had to be called.

I am an expat and can't vote so I can only choose whatever is the best available option for my kids. My school board members mostly ignore non-voters.

I'm glad California has the parent trigger law and my county is charter school friendly.

[Arcadia]

In grade one, I found the instructor had been fired because he wasn't a *real* teacher, he only played for the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra.

:lol:

An ABRSM grade 5 music theory pass would have been decent for teaching elementary school music. My brass band teacher did have both teaching and music education credentials. My music teacher is the choir director of the national combined schools choir, she only teach music.

 

On music theory in primary one (6 years old), the teachers would draw the staff lines on the big white board and we get to use the round magnets to represent music notes. That's how we learn the note names for treble and bass clef in school.

[nerdybird]

I remember, in grade prep, sitting on the floor of the staffroom with a little baking tray and some magnets focussing very carefully on learning to read music. I didn't get it, but I knew it was something real and if I stuck at it just a little longer, I would achieve enlightenment.

 

In grade one, I found the instructor had been fired because he wasn't a *real* teacher, he only played for the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. And my little girl intelligence was insulted year by year for the rest of primary school when I was obliged to sing "Juicy, Juicy, Green Grass" instead of learning to read music.

 

What is a teaching qualification actually worth? As I said, some people have taken some really useful courses, but plenty of other people regard theirs as a waste of time. I can't imagine getting my knickers in a twist about an instructor without that bit of paper, particularly when it is possible the instructors in the teaching courses don't have that bit of paper either.

 

Sorry. I don't know what your last paragraph in your OP was implying if you weren't implying what you said.

 

And worst of all, I can still remember the words to that stupid song. If they were going to teach something thoroughly, why that?  :huh:  :lol:

 

I had some terrible certified teachers in school. I also had some great ones. I can only recall one instructor that I knew was not properly certified. She was my journalism instructor in high school. She had worked with some organization for years, had been a private tutor for a long time and when her husband became ill, she managed to land a teaching job to support her family. She wasn't the best teacher I ever had, but she did give me a passion for photography and graphic design. So there's that.

 

I suppose that most of my concern with this issue lies not with the certifications, but with what these sorts of decisions may mean for the future of public education where I live. What is a certification really, except a piece of paper from the state and/or nation that says "so-and-so is qualified to do xyz from this date to that date. signed, representative blahblah mcsomebody".

 

As for your song....bleh, I have a similar distaste for "Eye of the Tiger" after it was hammered into my brain in jr. high band class. Make it stop!!! :willy_nilly:

 

The only way that public education will ever change for the better is if people who are educated, passionate and resourceful get involved and stay plugged in. Things won't get better if the people who are really and truly invested drop out of the system or choose not to be part of it. That's the dangerous part about homeschooling and sending your kids to private schools. You quit caring about the public schools that serve the majority. It's selfish to only care about your own kids and maybe the kids in your inner circle. Sure, you should focus your attention on them....but you shouldn't forget those kids who are outside of it and/or in the system either.

 

 

I suppose that the first sentence could be taken to heart and raise offense in some who has chosen not to participate in their local public education system. "The only way" is a very decisive and blanket-y statement. Heck, the whole thing is blanket-y and basically an appeal to emotion.

 

I think that sometimes I have some guilt because I took my kids out of public school. I don't want to forget about the kids like my oldest, who are struggling along in special education programs in the system. At the same time, I don't know what can be done about the situation either. Other than voting in school board elections, donating supplies at the beginning of the year and going to see friends' children when they perform in school plays, what is there to do? Pay taxes, that's a given...

 

I did campaign for a school garden at a local elementary school this fall. It was supposed to be a public project but there wasn't enough interest. It fell through.

 

So I still agree, there are ways to participate in the local system without sending your kids to school. Yet I still hold to some of what I said in that it is easy to be forget about the kids in the system at times.

[Arcadia]

I did campaign for a school garden at a local elementary school this fall. It was supposed to be a public project but there wasn't enough interest. It fell through.

The PTA's asked Lowes and Home Depot for donations to make a school garden. The two stores donated soil and the sprinkler system. The PTA's manage to get a local lumber company to donate lumber to make the 3ft by 2ft planter boxes.

It took 2 to 3 parent volunteers per school to do the canvassing for donations in kind. The school garden is practically the only science the lower elementary kids did; life cycle of plants.

[nerdybird]

In our case, the school garden project was started by a small band of green living types on the PTA of the local school. Then a small group from a local nursing home joined the cause. There is a large plot of city-owned land adjacent to the school and it was going to be a community garden. I heard about it from a friend who worked at the nursing home. I thought it was interesting so I joined the fray, so to speak. Posted fliers, wrote a guest blog from a friend's site, and the nerdlings and I made donation boxes to put up at few places.

 

In the end, there just wasn't enough interest. We fell short on donations and had no luck getting local businesses to sponsor us. :(

[Rosie_0801]

I think that sometimes I have some guilt because I took my kids out of public school. I don't want to forget about the kids like my oldest, who are struggling along in special education programs in the system. At the same time, I don't know what can be done about the situation either. Other than voting in school board elections, donating supplies at the beginning of the year and going to see friends' children when they perform in school plays, what is there to do? Pay taxes, that's a given...

 

I did campaign for a school garden at a local elementary school this fall. It was supposed to be a public project but there wasn't enough interest. It fell through.

 

So I still agree, there are ways to participate in the local system without sending your kids to school. Yet I still hold to some of what I said in that it is easy to be forget about the kids in the system at times.

 

No one person is able to change the system. It would take a societal change; for the population to begin to value education instead of the appearance of it. So don't feel guilty. You're doing your best to raise a couple of people who won't choose their kids' school based on the new carpet and whether the students wear their shirts tucked in. 

[Heather in Neverland]

Teacher certification programs are, by and large, a joke.

 

I don't believe the US Dept of Ed should even exist.

 

I am not sacrificing my children or their education on the altar of "fixing the system" especially when it can't be fixed. It is broken beyond repair.

 

And don't let anyone fool you. That's exactly how it will stay because there is BIG money in school reform. New initiatives, conferences, experts, books. Do you know how much these cost? A school is doing poorly so they bring in someone like Jay McTighe and his Understanding by Design program to train all the teachers to do better.

 

Do you know what he makes per day as an "expert" on school reform? A whopping $15,000 PER DAY. That's what the school district pays him. And that's just one of the "big names" in school reform. And there is a new guy on the block every week.

 

No thank you. Privitization is just fine with me.

[Rosie_0801]

So, uh, how do you get to be a school reformer? 

[FO4UR]

Teacher certification programs are, by and large, a joke.

 

I don't believe the US Dept of Ed should even exist.

 

I am not sacrificing my children or their education on the altar of "fixing the system" especially when it can't be fixed. It is broken beyond repair.

 

And don't let anyone fool you. That's exactly how it will stay because there is BIG money in school reform. New initiatives, conferences, experts, books. Do you know how much these cost? A school is doing poorly so they bring in someone like Jay McTighe and his Understanding by Design program to train all the teachers to do better.

 

Do you know what he makes per day as an "expert" on school reform? A whopping $15,000 PER DAY. That's what the school district pays him. And that's just one of the "big names" in school reform. And there is a new guy on the block every week.

 

No thank you. Privitization is just fine with me.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

The entire system needs an enema, from teaching schools up.  I'd rather have an uncertified professional teaching my child than someone who is a certified unprofessional.  Teachers are required to take tons of professional development courses, and yet these courses evidently do not qualify them to work professionally...ie they aren't trusted to do their job b/c they are mandated about just about everything in their classrooms.  Their hands are tied when it comes to assessing the situation before them, making an informed decision, and executing that decision to the best of their abilities.  We trust car mechanics more than we trust teachers.  (Car mechanics rock!  I just picked a profession for reference.) 

 

We need some sort of method for weeding out bad teachers and assuring quality education for each and every student, but teacher certification (as it is right now) does not serve that function.  If it did, I would agree with you.

 

I'm not sure I can think of any other way to fix this in the near future except to go to voucher-type systems, allowing parents and administrators to weed and reorganize things.  Obviously, we'd have to be strategic in offering great incentive for administrators and teachers to go into the worst school districts.  But, if our system were more fluid, I think it would be easier to pinpoint a principal or a teacher who is outstanding, and offer those people the Big $$$ Bucks to move into the failing districts and restructure from the inside out, using their own *professional expertise.* 

 

 

The ability to fix things from the inside out, to make decisions for the better of the student based on our knowledge of the situation, is EXACTLY why we homeschool.  It would not be fair to take away homeschooling or private schools from the families who choose those things.  Fairness demands bringing that level of competence and care to every student...and it's plain that certifying teachers has not (thus far) bridged that gap.

 

 

There are some amazing teachers out there who work so hard to try for every student.  Their jobs would be a lot easier if there were less top-town and more inside-out.

[FO4UR]

So, uh, how do you get to be a school reformer? 

 

 

I reform mine every year. I don't make THAT!

[SKL]

Well, as a highly-educated, seasoned professional, I really wanted to become a teacher in low-income schools, because there is a need and I have always had a heart for that.  I very seriously looked into the options.  Turns out the only path available would be to attend a very expensive graduate program.  It would require of me much more than is required of an individual entering college right out of high school.  This despite the fact that for my first 3 years of college, my major was elementary education!  And since then I had performed many, many hours of volunteer work in schools / literacy organizations.  No child is being protected by keeping people like me from the classroom.

 

That said, I wouldn't sign a petition without doing a lot of background research first.

[DawnM]

I am very against any such bill and would never have signed, but if she persisted, she might have gotten a piece of my mind in the process.

 

After working in PS for 17 years, I know there are pitfalls, but I also know just handing it over to someone else is not the answer.  I am sick of these, "But look at this one charter school in one place of the country and how well it is doing!  Don't you want all schools to be like that?"

 

Yes, of course I do, but don't show me a school that is highly, highly selective in who they pick to take in and tout that all schools can be like that.

 

I worked in an environment where many of those kids would be the ones left out of any such "reform."  

 

I have to get out the door this am, but I have a lot of opinions on this topic.

 

Dawn

[SKL]

FTR, charter schools around here have always been popular with lowish-income and minority families who value education.

 

I highly doubt politics ever could be or ever will be traced to literacy.  I would not cry if they closed the dept. of education.

[Laura Corin]

It's one of the advantages of private schools here that teachers don't have to be trained as such.  I'm not saying that teaching classes is easy  - it's not.  But it is possible for someone with a passion for a subject to put that over with the help of some tips from older teachers.

 

There are teachers in the boys' school with a wealth of experience in a variety of areas, and a natural authority that carries them through classes.

 

L

[Abeille]

I don't think it's an either/or situation. I'm capable of caring about both homeschooling, and the public school system. And lots of families straddle both worlds - in my family, two children attend public school while one homeschools. Each situation is what is best for that particular child (which I remind myself of often, because it would be much simpler to do one or the other). I've always been puzzled by the argument that it's selfish for people to pull their children out of the public system to homeschool. Homeschool families still pay school taxes, still vote, and in many cases still have ties to the system. Most of us care very much about what is happening with education, for all children.

 

I don't think it's fair to expect parents to keep their children in a system that isn't working for their children, in the vague hope of fixing it for all children. I know the option to choose something else isn't available to all families, but I think it should be - either by charter, or vouchers, or by a greater say in how their publicly funded schools are run. I realize how fortunate I was to have been able to pull my son out when he needed it.

 

My son was deeply depressed and had chronic stomach aches while in school. Other students made him miserable, while staying just barely on the right side of the bullying rules (which at my kids' school are thorough and seemingly taken quite seriously); the school made great efforts to help my son, but they cannot force children to be kind or friendly. My son is now thriving again, and I don't worry anymore that I'll find him hanging in his closet. Was it selfish of us to keep him home? It doesn't feel that way to me. My only regret is that we made him suffer through to the end of the school year, while hoping the system could solve his issues.

[Amy in NH]

I'm one who thinks we should get rid of teacher certification as it currently exists.  There are many people with a love of their topic and a desire to share it who cannot teach because they don't have a piece of paper from the state - that's stupid IMO.  All teacher certification does is funnel licensing fees to the state.  There are plenty of licensed teachers out there who stink - so the certification process obviously doesn't weed them out.  And I'm not certified, but I have successfully educated two of my children (so far) all the way through 12 years of schooling - so it obviously doesn't take a credential to educate children well.

 

Teacher tenure rules make it next to impossible to remove even the worst teacher.  Keeping them on because they've been there a certain number of years doesn't serve students or the community.  There was a very interesting piece on a public radio show a while back (This American Life?) about how NYC keeps and pays all its worst teachers who have been put on suspension for one reason or another.  They make them all report to work every day to a building filled with chairs for them - no students, no actual work - they just sit there all day.  They get full pay and benefits.  It is easier for the state/city to do this than to just fire them under contracts and tenure rules.  I think that's just wrong.

[Runningmom80]

There was an article on slate, or salon, I can't remember, about this very topic. Basically, I should have "liberal" guilt about not sending my kids to public school. I'm very liberal but I don't buy it. The system is going to take years and years to change, and if it can be fixed at all remains to be seen. So in the process I'm supposed to send my kids knowing they are getting the short end of the stick, as a political statement of solidarity? No. Sorry, I don't parent that way. On top of that I'm supposed to get involved and change it. It's a lovely idea, but I have a kid with special needs and medical issues. I don't have time. I know that sounds crappy, but I don't care anymore. I'm tired. I fight every day for him. I'm not taking on the local public school too.

 

 

We need politicians that actually give a sh*t about education. They are the ones who can change it faster than anyone.

 

I'm not afraid to make family decisions based on my moral/political beliefs, but I will not make them to the detriment of my children.

[Amy in NH]

The US DoE does not certify teachers.  They do play an interesting role in data collection, with many very good studies on different types of education.

[Serenade]

Teacher certification programs are, by and large, a joke.

 

I don't believe the US Dept of Ed should even exist.

 

I am not sacrificing my children or their education on the altar of "fixing the system" especially when it can't be fixed. It is broken beyond repair.

 

And don't let anyone fool you. That's exactly how it will stay because there is BIG money in school reform. New initiatives, conferences, experts, books. Do you know how much these cost? A school is doing poorly so they bring in someone like Jay McTighe and his Understanding by Design program to train all the teachers to do better.

 

Do you know what he makes per day as an "expert" on school reform? A whopping $15,000 PER DAY. That's what the school district pays him. And that's just one of the "big names" in school reform. And there is a new guy on the block every week.

 

No thank you. Privitization is just fine with me.

 

 

Sometimes I wish we could double "like" a post.

[snowbeltmom]

There was an article on slate, or salon, I can't remember, about this very topic. Basically, I should have "liberal" guilt about not sending my kids to public school. I'm very liberal but I don't buy it. The system is going to take years and years to change, and if it can be fixed at all remains to be seen. So in the process I'm supposed to send my kids knowing they are getting the short end of the stick, as a political statement of solidarity? No. Sorry, I don't parent that way. On top of that I'm supposed to get involved and change it. It's a lovely idea, but I have a kid with special needs and medical issues. I don't have time. I know that sounds crappy, but I don't care anymore. I'm tired. I fight every day for him. I'm not taking on the local public school too.

 

 

We need politicians that actually give a sh*t about education. They are the ones who can change it faster than anyone.

 

I'm not afraid to make family decisions based on my moral/political beliefs, but I will not make them to the detriment of my children.

:iagree:

I also have to wonder if the individuals who say we should keep our kids in public school and work on fixing the system ever actually tried to fix the system.  In my experience, it is impossible for a parent to fix the system. 

[hillfarm]

My 15yo dd is curently enrolled in an online public school as a transitional step between traditional homescholing and a local PSEO/community college for 11th and 12th grades. Some of the teachers there are fantastic. I have seen dd blossom and grow in their classes, sometimes in areas I never expected her to like. Most are...average. Not great, not bad, just adequate. And a few are lacking, IMO. They are dry in their presentation of the material, redundant, confusing, and inflexible. I assume that is probably the bell curve that exists among all educators, public school, private school, homeschool, religious school, etc.

 

The issue is how to weed out the less desirable ones and encourage the middle ranks to strive to do better. So long as the tenure option exists, those who need to be sent packing will remain firmly entrenched, damaging each generation of students that has the misfortune to pass through their classes. I know of very few other professions that tolerate such a crazy practice - most realize that the tenured hack tarnishes the profession as a whole.

 

Regarding the op's comment, "It's selfish to only care about your own kids and maybe the kids in your inner circle.", I would like to point out that this is my job. To focus on my own child and perhaps those children we know. I do think about the others in the public school system. Every time I pay my taxes, knowing that a hefty portion goes to provide for the education of the others. When I haul various animals or equipment to the various schools in my area to do demonstrations and educational fairs. When I educate myself regarding the candidates' positions regarding various issues before I vote for the local school board members. I would also point out that nothing is precluding the parents of all these other students from doing the same thing - putting their dc's interests first and sacrificing their personal time and energy to seek the best education possible. So no, I don't think it is selfish. I think it is the responsible thing to do.

[shanvan]

Yes.

 

 

 

The entire system needs an enema, from teaching schools up.  I'd rather have an uncertified professional teaching my child than someone who is a certified unprofessional.  Teachers are required to take tons of professional development courses, and yet these courses evidently do not qualify them to work professionally...ie they aren't trusted to do their job b/c they are mandated about just about everything in their classrooms.  Their hands are tied when it comes to assessing the situation before them, making an informed decision, and executing that decision to the best of their abilities.  We trust car mechanics more than we trust teachers.  (Car mechanics rock!  I just picked a profession for reference.) 

 

We need some sort of method for weeding out bad teachers and assuring quality education for each and every student, but teacher certification (as it is right now) does not serve that function.  If it did, I would agree with you......

 

 

The ability to fix things from the inside out, to make decisions for the better of the student based on our knowledge of the situation, is EXACTLY why we homeschool.  It would not be fair to take away homeschooling or private schools from the families who choose those things.  Fairness demands bringing that level of competence and care to every student...and it's plain that certifying teachers has not (thus far) bridged that gap.

 

 

There are some amazing teachers out there who work so hard to try for every student.  Their jobs would be a lot easier if there were less top-town and more inside-out.

You left out the part about how much time they have to spend teaching for a bunch of tests.  Their teaching will be judged on the results.  Never mind that the teachers themselves have very little control over the education of those students (meaning they have to follow all the mandates and do not have the authority to make enough decisions even when they know what might help).  I will never forget sitting through a faculty meeting discussing test scores during my last year of teaching.  There were several very good teachers who didn't meet the percentile goal for their students' test scores.  

 

Imho, the mindset of 'certification' contributes to keeping some highly qualified and skilled individuals from teaching.  Our state has had an alternate route to certification for years.  People with degrees in specific subject matter are supposed to be considered as teaching candidates.  The idea started during a time of high demand for teachers.  Those conditions no longer exist and it is next to impossible to find a teaching position without the proper degree in education or certification.

 

I will say, though, there are some benefits to being educated as a teacher.  I used to think anyone can teach and that many aspects of teaching are common sense.  I didn't think my degree in elementary ed or English gave me any kind of advantage at all.  Then I joined a co-op.  It was bad, really bad.  Now I think that my education courses did, at least, make me think about how to reach many different types of kids and what might be the best methods to use.  At our local homeschool group much of that basic understanding is missing and it makes for classes that are really nothing more than a glorified social hour. I realize not all co-ops are like that, but I could see many of the parents had very little idea of basic principles of designing a lesson.  Often their expectations of what is appropriate for certain ages was way off.  Many times the poor design of the lesson contributed to lack of understanding or even major disciple issues.  Even the basic idea of an incremental approach to skill learning was lacking.  Those are just a few of the things I have seen that have made me think some of the things learned in education courses are valuable.  

 

Maybe I had an unusual experience in my college courses.  I can think of many things I learned that have given me an advantage.  For one, I had an entire course in phonics.  My professor for teaching mathematics (or whatever the course was called)  gave me a thorough understanding of how to get back to basics, slow down, and truly develop mastery in basic mathematic skills.  I don't think I fully appreciated his approach until I was faced with teaching Dd her math facts!  I also learned how to design a test in-depth right down to writing multiple choice questions in a way that truly tests the knowledge of the test taker so that there are no obvious answers.  My statistics class was excellent and gave me a thorough understanding of how to calculate test results for a large group and the meanings behind the statistics given for standardized tests.  Idk, maybe I was just a very interested college student who looked for connections in my learning.  I do know there were other students who didn't get as much out of the courses.  And, what I think was missing is some major one-on-one time tutoring students through specific weaknesses.  That is where homeschooling has taught me a lot about teaching.  

 

Sounds like I'm arguing in favor of teacher education/certification, but I'm not necessarily b/c there were many students in my major who clearly weren't making connections and most of them went on to be certified too.  I don't think there are any easy answers.  I just wanted to point out that some teacher education is valuable.  What accounts for one person coming out of a teacher education program ready, willing, and able to apply what was learned, and another person coming out without a clue?  Why have a few of the parents at the co-op somehow developed decent teaching skills, while most are just willing to get through the hour, put their time in and call it done?  I suspect it is the attitude of the individual doing the teaching--their ability to set appropriate goals, their determination to see them through, and their willingness to figure out what it takes to reach students.  I don't know how that can be measured, except possibly by observation.  I would never advocate judging a teacher based on the observations done yearly in US public schools, though.  I don't know the answer.  

 

In addition to teaching my own children, I also volunteer as a 4-H leader and teach kids how to teach, so to speak.  When they are working on dog training, believe me, they are working on some of the basic principles of teaching.  I have also taught several classes locally.  Last year I taught public speaking; this year I am teaching a high school writing class.  I put a lot into any class I teach and I have specific expectations for each student based upon their ability level.  Recently, after class,my Ds told me he is amazed at my ability to address students with such different abilities and somehow make a class work, and make it enjoyable.  He is also amazed at how much some of the kids have learned compared to what they knew at the beginning of the year.  High praise from a kid who will sometimes argue that his way is better when we are at home!  Yet, his praise actually makes me extremely uncomfortable.  I fully realize the responsibility I have to the kids I am teaching and to their parents.  I care what happens to them.  I know them as individuals--know their strengths, weaknesses, and interests.  I'm not sure that is possible for a teacher in a brick and mortar school.  I know there are some who really try, but often they just have too many students and too much paperwork.

 

I'm rambling and my brain feels fuzzy from allergies, but those are my thoughts fwtw.

[shanvan]

My 15yo dd is curetnly enrolled in an online public school as a transitional step between traditional homescholing and a local PSEO/community college for 11th and 12th grades. Some of the teachers there are fantastic. I have seen dd blossom and grow in their classes, sometimes in areas I never expected her to like. Most are...average. Not great, not bad, just adequate. And a few are lacking, IMO. They are dry in their presentation of the material, redundant, confusing, and inflexible. I assume that is probably the bell curve that exists among all educators, public school, private school, homeschool, religious school, etc.

 

The issue is how to weed out the less desirable ones and encourage the middle ranks to strive to do better. So long as the tenure option exists, those who need to be sent packing will remain firmly entrenched, damaging each generation of students that has the misfortune to pass through their classes. I know of very few other professions that tolerate such a crazy practice - most realize that the tenured hack tarnishes the profession as a whole.

 

Regarding the op's comment, "It's selfish to only care about your own kids and maybe the kids in your inner circle.", I would like to point out that this is my job. To focus on my own child and perhaps those children we know. I do think about the others in the public school system. Every time I pay my taxes, knowing that a hefty portion goes to provide for the education of the others. When I haul various animals or equipment to the various schools in my area to do demonstrations and educational fairs. When I educate myself regarding the candidates' positions regarding various issues before I vote for the local school board members. I would also point out that nothing is precluding the parents of all these other students from doing the same thing - putting their dc's interests first and sacrificing their personal time and energy to seek the best education possible. So no, I don't think it is selfish. I think it is the responsible thing to do.

:iagree: Liking this post wasn't enough.

[SKL]

I am not a homeschooler, but I make decisions every day that benefit my kids and don't benefit a lot of other kids.  Humans are designed that way.  I still do a lot of things to benefit other kids.  But when it comes to mine, the buck stops here.  Nobody else has them as their priority.  I believe there is a reason I was entrusted with these kids for 17 years.

 

Who the heck comes up with these ideas that parents should not give their own kids more than they give every other kid?  People without children?  People affected by drugs?  I don't know.  It sounds lovely on paper, but it doesn't and can't work.

[kewb]

As a homeschooler I have not checked out of the public school system.  It is of great interest to me what is going on there.  The kids going through the system are my kids friends and who knows I may need to use the system.

 

The privatization of public education has been a hot button topic for me for a number of years.  I went through public school long before no child left behind and I can honestly say that I had a great education. Yes, there were some bad teachers but most of them were great.

 

I am on the fence on the tenure issue.  Some days I think-these people are teaching the future and should have some protections but then I think about the dead wood that is also protected.  And I think about my lack of job security and wonder why teachers should have it.  

 

Testing is ridiculous.  It is out of hand and is not a true evaluation of the teacher.  There are so many other factors involved-is the child an esl student, involved parents, are they getting enough to eat, and so on.

 

 

[hillfarm]

It's clear you know your job as a parent and a community member. But what is your job as a citizen? Is it in your best interest to ignore what the public school is doing?  In my area, significant chunks of the population are excluded from learning at school. Other schools are violent, and in shambles. Silence from the citizens is a vote in favor of continuing.Is that the vote you really want to cast?

 

What exactly would you have me do? How is it that I, as a lowly homeschool parent, should have the expertise to solve these problems that the professionals within the public school system have been unable to solve or unwilling to face?

 

I educate myself to the issues, I vote regarding school board members. I have even gone to a few public meetings regarding these things and voiced my opinion. I don't consider myself to be very silent at all. In addition, I would point out that for the most part, my input has not been welcomed. Not by the public school parents nor by the public school administrators.

 

How am I being selfish?

 

An analogy I often ponder, would I deny my family the care of the best physician we can afford because others are unable to afford him? (BTW, we are lower middle income, so my guy wouldn't be the be-all, end-all) Would you subject your dc to subpar care just because others don't have that option? Is it selfish to seek the best you can for your family? I don't think so.  My doing the best for my family does not block anyone else from seeking the same for their families. Regarding my duties as a citizen, the day the school administrators come to me and ask for input and suggestions, I will be delighted to clear my calendar and desk and give them every thought I possibly can. However, for now I am focusing on my tiny corner of the educational problem, which is seeing that my dd enters society as a well educated person, able to be productive, be a leader, and be an informed consumer and voter.

[shanvan]

 

The privatization of public education has been a hot button topic for me for a number of years.  I went through public school long before no child left behind and I can honestly say that I had a great education. Yes, there were some bad teachers but most of them were great.

 

That was my experience too.

 

I am on the fence on the tenure issue.  Some days I think-these people are teaching the future and should have some protections but then I think about the dead wood that is also protected.  And I think about my lack of job security and wonder why teachers should have it.  

 

Yes.  I feel the same way.  Sometimes tenure protects the teachers who should be kept.

 

Testing is ridiculous.  It is out of hand and is not a true evaluation of the teacher.  There are so many other factors involved-is the child an esl student, involved parents, are they getting enough to eat, and so on.

Amen on the testing.

[Anne in CA]

 The idea that depriving our own children of the best we can give them with the idea that they shouldn't have it if other children don't have it could ruin a whole society. I went to church with a lovely woman who didn't home school even though she knew how much public school was lacking. She spent about 20 hours a week as a volunteer at her son's schools over his 12 years in school to keep his schools a good place to be. She gave up having a job for this, although her husband must have made enough money that it didn't hurt them too much, but it still seems wrong to me. Why should one person give up so much of their life when she wanted to home school in the first place, but didn't to make the ps's a better place? If she had had a job and given the money to a responsible charity I think the world might have been a better place for her efforts. But my experience with ps is so jaded (for extremely good reasons) that I just don't believe investing your time in them is that wise. They get my taxes, I take who I vote for for school board very seriously, I work with other people's kids at church, that is my share.

[Lady Florida.]

There was an article on slate, or salon, I can't remember, about this very topic. Basically, I should have "liberal" guilt about not sending my kids to public school. I'm very liberal but I don't buy it. The system is going to take years and years to change, and if it can be fixed at all remains to be seen. So in the process I'm supposed to send my kids knowing they are getting the short end of the stick, as a political statement of solidarity? No. Sorry, I don't parent that way. On top of that I'm supposed to get involved and change it. It's a lovely idea, but I have a kid with special needs and medical issues. I don't have time. I know that sounds crappy, but I don't care anymore. I'm tired. I fight every day for him. I'm not taking on the local public school too.

 

 

We need politicians that actually give a sh*t about education. They are the ones who can change it faster than anyone.

 

I'm not afraid to make family decisions based on my moral/political beliefs, but I will not make them to the detriment of my children.

 

 

:iagree: I'm a flaming liberal and am tired of the anti-homeschooling attitude among "my people". I don't have liberal guilt. I homeschool because I worked in the local school system. 

 

ETA: I love DailyKos. I visit it, well, daily. However, I disagree with many of the diarists and commenters in their belief that we should all be sending our kids to public school.

[SKL]

Another thing.  I have made several efforts to get involved in the educational system to improve it, before I even had kids.  It was always met with a polite smile and, if I was talking to the "right person," I was put on the list of people who were going to work on an important project that would be starting soon!  I even have a personal letter from the governor's wife!  That was a great way to shut me up while the "planned project" quietly died.

 

I was a literacy volunteer for many years, working with organizations that had relationships with the school system.  Many schools and teachers didn't want to be bothered, and even when I had a school- and teacher-approved schedule to come and work with identified struggling readers, the school acted like it was a big imposition.  But anyway, kids did benefit, so I do recommend doing this if you can.  My point is that caring about other people's kids is one thing, being able to help them is another.  ETA:  I'm sure it's even more difficult nowadays with all the extreme security in schools.  Hard to motivate people to go through all that when it isn't really appreciated except by the kids themselves.

 

I've always been an educational reformer at heart, ever since I was in elementary school.  But I quit banging my head against the brick wall some time ago.

[SKL]

I can't answer your selfish question, you'll have to ask yourself.

 

On the citizen question I asked...what are your rights and responsibilities as a citizen?  You've answered that you've voiced an opinion occasionally in a public forum, and tacetly approved everything else.  And that is fine. You and your community own the results. It becomes not fine, imho, when the state has to step in and provide the basics, because that affects the people in all of the other communities, who now are taxed to help the community where people looked the other way at incompetence or theft, etc. and graduated capable children who weren't taught to read, write, or figure. What should the check and balance be, if not the actual citizens in the local community?

 

Wait a minute, I thought the state decided to take our money without first asking us, and to spend it on education without consulting us.  Of course they are supposed to provide the basics.

 

Also, in our state, we do have more local control of the school system, and this results in the well-off communities having much better schools.  This system was declared unconstitutional decades ago, but has not been replaced, because they don't know how to fix it without breaking it worse.

 

[nerdybird]

The ability to fix things from the inside out, to make decisions for the better of the student based on our knowledge of the situation, is EXACTLY why we homeschool.  It would not be fair to take away homeschooling or private schools from the families who choose those things.  Fairness demands bringing that level of competence and care to every student...and it's plain that certifying teachers has not (thus far) bridged that gap.

 

 

Homeschooling should not be taken off the table. I am not against school vouchers either. There should be options for education. Unfortunately, this is not the case for all families or all situations.

 

Life isn't fair. Teachers, admins and community members that don't know your child or family cannot always be compelled to care about them, let alone to invest in them. Certifying teachers isn't the answer, but I tend to view certifications as a very small insurance policy of sorts. I have went through the process of getting professional certifications in the past. I think that I was competent and deserving of such certifications after passing said exams and gaining the necessary experience. Many teachers probably think the same about their certifications.

 

Yet a piece of paper or license rarely proves anything resembling real world skills or actual competence in a given situation. That too has been shown in many cases.

 

 I am sick of these, "But look at this one charter school in one place of the country and how well it is doing!  Don't you want all schools to be like that?"

 

 

 

Yes, of course I do, but don't show me a school that is highly, highly selective in who they pick to take in and tout that all schools can be like that.

 

 

 

I worked in an environment where many of those kids would be the ones left out of any such "reform."  

 

This is my primary issue with the move towards privatization of public schools, particularly urban ones. Charters and magnets can be selective in who they take. Some require entrance exams and interviews; others go by state standardized test scores. Many have requirements for families as well, such as providing transportation, attending meetings, purchasing books and supplies out of pocket, uniform fees, and other things that not all families can do.

 

Those sorts of things take the ball out of the common court of play and places it out of reach of a segment of the student population. Those students then become trapped in the fair-to-piss poor public schools, where their only hope to get out is often athletics or crime.

 

 

What exactly would you have me do? How is it that I, as a lowly homeschool parent, should have the expertise to solve these problems that the professionals within the public school system have been unable to solve or unwilling to face?

 

I educate myself to the issues, I vote regarding school board members. I have even gone to a few public meetings regarding these things and voiced my opinion. I don't consider myself to be very silent at all. In addition, I would point out that for the most part, my input has not been welcomed. Not by the public school parents nor by the public school administrators.

 

 

I too participate at these levels. I vote in elections. I have attended open meetings (not in our current district, but in previous districts in which we have resided). I have been involved in public schools as a parent when my oldest still attended public school. He attended public school for Pre-K-grade 2, in 2 different districts. He thrived but even participating in the PTA and a group for parents of special needs children really didn't give me a voice to change things. 

 

It is difficult to judge just how involved one should be in the public schools as a parent whose child(ren) are not in them. I suppose that is something I struggle with. Not all HS parents feel/think that way.

[Aelwydd]

:iagree: I'm a flaming liberal and am tired of the anti-homeschooling attitude among "my people". I don't have liberal guilt. I homeschool because I worked in the local school system. 

 

ETA: I love DailyKos. I visit it, well, daily. However, I disagree with many of the diarists and commenters in their belief that we should all be sending our kids to public school.

 

Add me to the list of annoyed liberals.  I do understand that public education represents one of the best ways to inculcate a shared history and a shared purpose among a diverse and very large citizenry.  However, the overall trend in educational philosophy from a coherent and holistic approach to a truly liberal arts education towards a competency based ideal, where concepts are compartmentalized and disjointed, is not one I'm going to subject my artistic child to.  No child should be compelled to learn in that mental straitjacket.  Yes, I understand there are exceptions and bright spots.  But, to this liberal, Common Core only represents the lowest common denominator in educational philosophy.  It's about reducing people to preparing to become cogs in the capitalist machine, not encouraging a generation of well-informed, critically thinking and thoughtful individuals.

 

Like much of our media, our education system seems designed to replace objective data with biased and half-formed informational bytes. So sorry if I want more for my son (and for all children) than a Power Point learning experience.

[Jkacz]

A should be thumb twiddling (and yes, I've heard this expressed at budget meetings) while the music teacher is fired in order to hire a 1:1 aide to get B 'to mind' and another teacher for B's remedial needs.

 

One of the reasons I homeschool is because DS, during the first week of first grade, was LITERALLY taught to twiddle his thumbs while waiting for other children to finish their work.  He was also sent to "time-out" twice within the 4 days he was there.  I still don't know why because no one found it important enough to e-mail me or call me about it.  He went from a child who loved school to hating school in 4 DAYS.  We are still undoing the damage 1 year later.  Add in a teacher who didn' know "there" from "their" and thought "clothespin" was spelled "closepin" and I figured I couldn't do worse. 

 

Unfortunately, parents and the staff in our district are so "proud" of the fact that our schools are "blue-ribbon", 10 out of 10 on greatschools, that they refuse to recognize that there are any problems with them.  They are oblivious to the fact that the only reason that the schools do well is because every parent I have talked to afterschools or summerschools their children and the district is made up of predominantly wealthy parents who hire tutors at the first sign that their students are having an issue.  My input is NOT wanted.  So I stick to educating myself on the candidates for school board and making sure I vote every year. 

 

I will not sacrifice my children so that other parents and the school district can feel even better about themselves.  I can sure as heck tell you that I had no knowledge of what was even going on in the classroom (no books or worksheets came home), never mind being able to influence it.

[nerdybird]

In regards to school-to-work programs, are those the same thing as vocational programs?

 

Our current district shares a vocational facility with 3 other districts and the students have to compete for limited spaces there. It is a great program, but it is like a charter in that they are very selective about who gets in and who doesn't. Most of the kids who get in have solid GPAs and do vocational to get a leg up on CC courses or internships.

 

It really isn't school-to-work as much as it is career education prep, imo.

 

The district also has fairly limited AP offerings. I looked into this while researching a question someone asked on the boards a few months ago. Compared to other districts our size, we don't offer anywhere near the same scope of advanced or even standard level high school courses.

[hillfarm]

I can't answer your selfish question, you'll have to ask yourself. Okay, I have asked myself and determined that I am not at all selfish for placing more focus on my child's education than on that of other children in other families.

 

On the citizen question I asked...what are your rights and responsibilities as a citizen?  You've answered that you've voiced an opinion occasionally in a public forum, and tacetly approved everything else. Hold on a minute - my silence on an issue does NOT imply tacit agreement. It may be due to any number of things.  And that is fine. You and your community own the results. It becomes not fine, imho, when the state has to step in and provide the basics, What? I assumed that the state was legally obligated to provide the basics - that is why I pay taxes.It would be inappropriate for me to storm a first grade classroom and inform them that I will now be taking over the teaching of reading! because that affects the people in all of the other communities, who now are taxed to help the community where people looked the other way at incompetence or theft, etc. and graduated capable children who weren't taught to read, write, or figure. What should the check and balance be, if not the actual citizens in the local community?  Um...my taxes have stayed the same for 14 years - am I to believe that is because no school anywhere in my state had any problems with corruption, incompetence or lack of skills in students during this time period? This seems to be a very strange and unfounded argument to me. The actual citizens in my community pay for the state to provide for the education of the children in our area. We have been given no opportunity to opt out of this arrangement, nor to alter it.

 I guess we have a basic difference in how we look at the educational world. I believe that my husband and I are responsible for my dd's education. We reviewed all our options and determined that for K -9th grades, homeschooling was the best choice. Currently, we feel that one year at the online school and then 2 years at the local community college are the best options. Because we have a generous homeschool community here that is quick to loan materials, it is possible for any other family in my county to make the same choices we have and enable their dc to receive a similar level of education to that dd has received. No one is being excluded for any reason other than personal choice.

 

My degree of involvement follows closely with my level of influence. I had a great deal of influence over my dd's homeschool education, therefore I was extremely involved with it. I have less right and minimal responsibility to influence the education of other dc we know so my involvement is much less. I have very little influence over the local public school system, therefore my level of involvement is even less there.

 

To look at it another way, I have full legal responsibility to make sure my dd is receiving an education and I like to think I have fulfilled this responsibility to the fullest of my ability. I have no legal responsibility to educate the children of other families. But because I am not selfish and do care about other children, I offer support, encouragement, spend countless hours teaching their dc in 4H, volunteer my time to go in and do demos in their classrooms, I educate myself on the issues and try to help select good leadership for them, and if I see what I perceive to be a blatant wrong, I speak up to try to right it. But I realize that I have no legal responsibilty in the local public school arena, that I have only minimal influence, and that I only have 24 hours in a day. My time and energy is best spent attending to that for which I am fully responsible, not shortchanging my dd so I can go out and beat my head against a wall trying to change a system that even its own members can't right.

[Mergath]

I'm wholeheartedly against the privatization of the public schools.  The last thing this country needs is another way to increase the gap between the wealthy and the poor.

 

And instead of doing away with teacher certification, we need to drastically increase the bar one must meet to become a teacher, similar to how they do things in Finland.  I met a lot of teaching students as a Lit major in college, and to be blunt, most of them would have struggled to teach dog obedience training, never mind educating actual children.  We need to have a way to weed out the people who cruise through with Cs and go on to become below average teachers who in turn crank out below average students.  That's not to say that I don't want experts in their fields to become teachers, but I do think they should have to go through some kind of basic certification process to prove they have some teaching skills.  Just because someone has a PhD in Biology doesn't mean they're going to be good at teaching basic science to high schoolers.

[Aelwydd]

I'm wholeheartedly against the privatization of the public schools.  The last thing this country needs is another way to increase the gap between the wealthy and the poor.

 

And instead of doing away with teacher certification, we need to drastically increase the bar one must meet to become a teacher, similar to how they do things in Finland.  I met a lot of teaching students as a Lit major in college, and to be blunt, most of them would have struggled to teach dog obedience training, never mind educating actual children.  We need to have a way to weed out the people who cruise through with Cs and go on to become below average teachers who in turn crank out below average students.  That's not to say that I don't want experts in their fields to become teachers, but I do think they should have to go through some kind of basic certification process to prove they have some teaching skills.  Just because someone has a PhD in Biology doesn't mean they're going to be good at teaching basic science to high schoolers.

 

I totally agree with this.  Especially with looking to Finland as a model of how to reform education.  Understand my criticism of public school isn't with the concept of free, quality education to every person.  My beef is with the current model, which frankly, is heavily underpinned by privatized industries, and regressive lobby groups.  I would support a total reboot if it was predicated upon mastery, equality of access and resources, and universality as the Finnish system is.

 

Given that this is the U.S.A, though, I am not optimistic.

[JeanM]

At least in my state, charters and magnets don't work the same way. Charter schools are not allowed to be selective. If they have more student sign up than they have seats, they have to use a lottery to decide who gets in. Magnets are different and can be selective.

 

 

 

This was a quote, but I've messed up the formatting:

 

Charters and magnets can be selective in who they take. Some require entrance exams and interviews; others go by state standardized test scores. Many have requirements for families as well, such as providing transportation, attending meetings, purchasing books and supplies out of pocket, uniform fees, and other things that not all families can do.

[nerdybird]

At least in my state, charters and magnets don't work the same way. Charter schools are not allowed to be selective. If they have more student sign up than they have seats, they have to use a lottery to decide who gets in. Magnets are different and can be selective.

 

 

Charter admissions can very greatly by district in my current state of residence. Right now, there are only about 2 dozen districts that offer charters, mostly larger ones.

 

The district I currently live in operates 2 charters. One is high school only and operates as a school-within-a-school for at-risk youth. It is an example of the special ed/remedial funding preference talked about upthread. Most of the students in the program (from what I gather through the local media outlets and a few friends with high school aged kids) are either ESL students or teen moms. The program has a high drop out rate (only 40% of its 4 year students graduate; even less of the later entrances do.)

 

The goal is to get these kids to graduate, but honestly...I don't think it is working.

 

The other charter is for K-5 and is by application only. There is a lottery for open spots. They had trouble filling their base spots at the upper levels though. Many of the kids that applied didn't pass the entrance exams. Some of them ended up returning to the public school because they couldn't keep up.

 

I think that this may be the case for a good portion of charter students, especially those in academically rigorous charters. If a student falls behind, they may end up leaving the charter due to low grades or family pressure at the upper levels. Some charters have contracts stating that they can suspend or expel students for reasons that don't fly in public schools. Others essentially function as surrogate families for their students. If they don't, the charter doesn't thrive because many of the students have little or no stability at home, or even access to basics like food, transport, laundry services, computers, etc.

 

[FO4UR]

I'm wholeheartedly against the privatization of the public schools.  The last thing this country needs is another way to increase the gap between the wealthy and the poor.

 

And instead of doing away with teacher certification, we need to drastically increase the bar one must meet to become a teacher, similar to how they do things in Finland.  I met a lot of teaching students as a Lit major in college, and to be blunt, most of them would have struggled to teach dog obedience training, never mind educating actual children.  We need to have a way to weed out the people who cruise through with Cs and go on to become below average teachers who in turn crank out below average students.  That's not to say that I don't want experts in their fields to become teachers, but I do think they should have to go through some kind of basic certification process to prove they have some teaching skills.  Just because someone has a PhD in Biology doesn't mean they're going to be good at teaching basic science to high schoolers.

 

 

I'm agreeing that we need to close the gap between wealthy and poor.  I don't think doing more of what we've been doing (regulating, testing, more regulating, more testing) is going to achieve different results from what we've been getting.  Doing more of the same will result in...more of the same...a greater gap, a greater disparity, a greater problem b/c eventually we won't have a pool of *educated* people to choose from when we are looking for teachers.  In some areas of the country, we are already seeing that.

 

 

School can never be completely privatized, but our Federal Funds need to be *very carefully* utilized.  We need a federal system in place to rescue impoverished kids, teachers, and schools.  We don't need a federal system to give top-down mandates that do not serve the teachers or the kids, and only serve to keep wheels spinning (testing testing testing) in order to keep the money coming in....so that the wheels can keep spinning (more testing)...so that more $ is sent their way.  Meanwhile, are the kids actually ready for life and college at age 18?  

 

 

It has to be privatized in the sense that Parents and Students choose where to attend school.  Administration needs to have the freedom to hire/fire teachers according to the goals of their schools.  Teachers MUST be given the FREEDOM to serve in a professional capacity, and not merely serving as box checkers.  Right now, we HAVE capable teachers in this country.  We simply don't allow them the freedom to teach.  We need to privatize on the local level, with federal help only as last resort rescue.

 

 

Right now, the individual serves the institution.  This is backwards.  The institution should serve the individuals....or what was the point in the first place?

[shanvan]

I agree.  But two obstacles to that are pay and do we have enough people who can meet those standards (or who would want to)?

 

I do think we have enough people who can meet those standards.  I'm not trying to suggest that most people are too stupid.  But I suspect people would not want to if the pay remains the same.  I know people go into certain fields knowing they won't make much money because it's something they want to do or are passionate about, but lets face it, pay is often a factor. 

 

And then at this point in time I feel like teachers aren't respected.  I have met some teachers who feel they aren't given enough autonomy in their classroom.  I've homeschooled for years now, but I have zero desire to go into professional teaching.  No thank you.  It sounds thankless!

Exactly.  I'm getting close to the end of homeschooling one Dc and the other will soon be high school level.  My mind naturally ponders what I might do when i am done.  The one thing I don't see myself doing is going back to teaching in the public schools.  

 

It irritated me to the nth degree this year, while my husband was unemployed, to have relatives constantly saying maybe it was 'my turn' to work and I could go back to teaching again.  (As if I'm not working/teaching now.)  Shows their absolute ignorance of how schools work and how I teach at home.

[shawthorne44]

I would have signed it, and I wouldn't have regretted signing it after reading the other info that worried you.  

I think part of why I don't worry about Teacher Certification, is that an Education degree is a joke.   It is the Underwater Basket Weaving degree of today. So, I would rather have my child taught by someone with a real degree and a few training courses in classroom management.  

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Right. We all beleive that the parents are responsible for their own children.  What we disagree on is what the citizen's responsibility is when parents choose to be irresponsible and when politicians/teachers choose to ignore students who want to learn.  I am asking what a citizen's responsibility in that circumstance is.  The question is almost the same as the poverty question...your garden is thriving, the neighbor's garden has seen a few hurricanes and foxes...actually enough that they are taxing you substantially to feed the foxes.  Do you ignore the outcome, and continue your current level of citizenship? Does Rome need to be burning literally before you, as a citizen, are motivated to do anything that benefits your community but doesn't benefit you directly?

The person whom you are interrogating mentioned that her local school is not really open attempts to stage a coup in the first grade classrooms.

 

As far as being motivated to do something that benefits her community w/o benefiting her directly, I noticed the 4H program and other community initiatives she is involved in.

 

Now, would you mind answering a few questions?

 

1. What are you, specifically, doing to bring about equality in education? If you can solve this, you will be the first in the nation who can.

2. How's that going? If you are measurably succeeding right now, I hope someone is nominating you for an award.

3. How are your efforts funded?

4. How welcome is your intervention, and how do you get around laws barring community persons from creating and enforcing policy in school?

5. How many hours per week do you spend on your public education reform projects and

6. Where do your own children learn while you pursue your cause?

 

Here's what I do:

1. I stay connected in my community. I follow the news, I talk with parents, I communicate with the guidance office of the local high school and with elementary teachers (cousins). I know what's going on.

2. I vote on everything related to education.

3. I also follow state, national, and global news on education.

4. I have worked with others to create a blog that will serve as a resource for all persons wishing to home educate or afterschool their children.

5. I am raising four persons who will (I presume) carry my egalitarian and liberal perspective on education out into the world along WITH an understanding of politics, civic responsibility, and the classical education that is the heritage of all children of the West. The theory is that since they know what "real" education is they will do as their mother has done and ensure that at least their own children will have access to learning, AND they will feel somewhat responsible to assist struggling learners whom they encounter through life as I have done.

6. I mentor homeschooling mothers and I have tutored students.

7. I taught my children and they, in turn, have tutored others.

 

That's about all I can do while homeschooling four sons. When they are grown I will probably do more. But nobody will ever be able to accuse me of not caring about my community, not getting involved, not trying to help. When a system shuts me out I have to offer help to support systems that welcome help. Homeschoolers, literacy programs at our local library, the YMCA and our local Parks and Rec dept. welcome unelected useful persons who are not union teachers nor hired by the public schools, so that's where my efforts are directed for now.