SAT II Latin test after completing Latin 3 or AP Latin?

[TeaTotaler]

I was planning to have ds take the Latin Subject test after completing AP Latin but ds and I are wondering if it would be better to take it after Latin 3 while the grammar is still fresh.

 

I know Kathy in Richmond has mentioned taking it after Latin 3 but her dc are brilliant.  :thumbup:  :-)

Ds will be taking 3 AP courses next year (none so far) as a Junior and he may be exhausted once those are done.  On the other hand the prep for AP Latin should help.  Mrs. Barr from Lukeion thinks ds would be prepared if he does some prep over the next month.

 

Ds is already registered for the SAT II Math Level 2 exam in June.  From what I have read on the boards, I can add an additional test on the day of the exam and I will be billed for the difference.  Is this correct?  Can I change the registration online now before the deadline?

 

Any thoughts?  I would post a poll, if I knew how to do so!!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Gratia271]

My daughter is in the same position as your son with multiple APs this fall as well (subject tests etc...).  She decided she wanted to do review (minutiae is stumbling block for her) and take it this December.  She considered this June but was concerned about having time to adequately review all the "details" with everything else she is juggling.  If your son has time for review, I agree with June.  Good luck!

[G5052]

FWIW -- Mrs. Barr reviews grammar some during AP Latin, and they just did a more comprehensive review.  During the essays you have to practice your grammar in order to figure out why certain tenses and constructions were used.  Other than balancing multiple AP's, you should be fine either way.  

 

You could take it and delay sending scores, and retake the SAT II the following year if you aren't happy with the June score (obviously not with a senior graduating then).  A friend of ours took the Latin AP and then took the SAT II with very minimal review after their other APs, and they were very happy with the score and didn't retake it.  You probably know this, but the SAT II is a one hour, multiple choice exams.

 

Mine will take a week-long break from Latin after the AP, and then review for the SAT II with the REA book, which has diagnostics that help you pinpoint where to study and two practice exams.  We already looked at it in detail together, and he doesn't feel like much work at all is required.  He compared it to the National Latin Exam.  Mine is doing just the Latin AP for various reasons, so we are following it with the SAT II in June.  Given that he has struggled some with the essay portion in AP Latin, it could be that the SAT II will go better.  He has done beautifully on the National Latin Exam (several perfect papers).  

[Elise]

Dd took the SAT II after Latin 3 and did super well.  I just asked her, and she said she was glad that she went ahead and took it then.  There's certainly no harm in waiting until after AP, but it's also kind of nice to have one thing knocked out ahead of time.  She is studying for AP's right now and is definitely stressed!

[Gratia271]

Dd took the SAT II after Latin 3 and did super well.  I just asked her, and she said she was glad that she went ahead and took it then.  There's certainly no harm in waiting until after AP, but it's also kind of nice to have one thing knocked out ahead of time.  She is studying for AP's right now and is definitely stressed!

 

This is what my daughter is thinking too, trying to pace things out to retain a reasonable schedule.  Juggling college level course work across all subjects along with a major research project etc... makes it difficult to carve out time to just "be" (a must around here) so I think that works best for kids who are taking multiple AP classes across all disciplines coupled with SAT II tests.  Another thing to consider is the detail level questions these types of tests have.  For global, conceptual learners like my kids, the so called "easy" tests/test questions are markedly more challenging for them than reading and comprehending long unadapted Latin and Greek passages.  Different tests are challenging for different types of learners, IMO.  Needless to say, we have planned the SAT II tests to almost immediately follow completion of relevant content due to the way they are designed (detail, detail, detail).  YMMV.

 

 

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for mentioning the Dec date.  For some reason I thought that Latin was only offered once a year.  Yes, I've heard that the SATII Latin can be nit picky about the grammar so ds will need to review thoroughly.  This time of year gets a little crazy for us with recitals, concerts etc so there can be a some crash and burn by mid-May!!  I am going to order the REA book and then let ds decide what he'd prefer.

 

My daughter is in the same position as your son with multiple APs this fall as well (subject tests etc...).  She decided she wanted to do review (minutiae is stumbling block for her) and take it this December.  She considered this June but was concerned about having time to adequately review all the "details" with everything else she is juggling.  If your son has time for review, I agree with June.  Good luck!

 

[TeaTotaler]

Are you using any other resources besides the REA book?  I have the big Blue Book from the library that has one full-length sample test.

Thanks.

FWIW -- Mrs. Barr reviews grammar some during AP Latin, and they just did a more comprehensive review.  During the essays you have to practice your grammar in order to figure out why certain tenses and constructions were used.  Other than balancing multiple AP's, you should be fine either way.  

 

You could take it and delay sending scores, and retake the SAT II the following year if you aren't happy with the June score (obviously not with a senior graduating then).  A friend of ours took the Latin AP and then took the SAT II with very minimal review after their other APs, and they were very happy with the score and didn't retake it.  You probably know this, but the SAT II is a one hour, multiple choice exams.

 

Mine will take a week-long break from Latin after the AP, and then review for the SAT II with the REA book, which has diagnostics that help you pinpoint where to study and two practice exams.  We already looked at it in detail together, and he doesn't feel like much work at all is required.  He compared it to the National Latin Exam.  Mine is doing just the Latin AP for various reasons, so we are following it with the SAT II in June.  Given that he has struggled some with the essay portion in AP Latin, it could be that the SAT II will go better.  He has done beautifully on the National Latin Exam (several perfect papers).  

 

[TeaTotaler]

Best wishes to your dd on the Latin AP.  I am not looking forward to this time next year.

 

Dd took the SAT II after Latin 3 and did super well.  I just asked her, and she said she was glad that she went ahead and took it then.  There's certainly no harm in waiting until after AP, but it's also kind of nice to have one thing knocked out ahead of time.  She is studying for AP's right now and is definitely stressed!

 

[TeaTotaler]

A question for those who have used the REA book - were there any errors that you noticed?  I think one of their other books (Physics, I believe) had several errors. 

Thanks.

[G5052]

Are you using any other resources besides the REA book?  I have the big Blue Book from the library that has one full-length sample test.

Thanks.

 

Just the REA book.  There really isn't a lot out there on the Latin SAT II.  The REA book also has 2 tests.  I just noted that the software only works with Windows.  Ah...computers.

 

We didn't see any errors in our quick scan of it.

 

Definitely a subject that deserves some updates afterwards because it isn't a popular SAT II, even in my area where some of the public school districts still teach it.

[Elise]

We've used the REA book and Excelability in Advanced Latin.  Dd especially likes Excelability--it is helpful for AP prep too, especially sight translations.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Hi TeaTotaler! (love your name while I'm sipping my morning tea!)

 

We reviewed for SAT 2 using the same REA guide & Excelability book mentioned above. The grammar & reading (ie, everything but the culture sections) from past NLEs level 3/4 prose and 3/4 poetry are good for review, too (look on the NLE website for several free past exams). That's the best source I found for lots of short timed reading passages followed by a mc question set.

 

I just worked through that REA guide again last year with a tutoring student, and i can't remember having any problems with it. In flipping through quickly this morning, I can only find one scribble where we disagreed with the answer keys. It's a very well written book, unlike their physics SAT2 guide.

 

My kids are similar to Gratia's, especially my dd, the classics major. "Easy is hard & hard is easy", so tests like Latin SAT 2 that demand a good grasp of lots of detailed grammar rules were tougher for her than the AP Latin exam. She'd take a pure reading and essay test in Latin any day!

 

That's why I often suggest looking at the SAT 2 test at the completion of Latin 3. She waited till December of her AP year, and had to spend some time reviewing grammar that fall on top of an already too-busy schedule. In retrospect, she thought that she would have preferred to have taken it a year earlier.

 

I suspect that if your son is in Lukeion, that he is most likely more than ready after their Latin 3 class.

 

The actual SAT 2 registration is simple if he's already signed up for math. Yes, he can just stay and sit for a second exam that day, and they will just charge you for the extra test. We did that once, and it wasn't a hassle at all. It's only is a problem if you wish to add a language w/ listening test (test day procedures for subject tests).

[TeaTotaler]

Thank you, Kathy. Now ds needs to decide what will work best for him.  He was hoping to concentrate on the Math 2 test, while finishing up some other school work that we are behind on...sigh.

Hi TeaTotaler! (love your name while I'm sipping my morning tea!)

 

We reviewed for SAT 2 using the same REA guide & Excelability book mentioned above. The grammar & reading (ie, everything but the culture sections) from past NLEs level 3/4 prose and 3/4 poetry are good for review, too (look on the NLE website for several free past exams). That's the best source I found for lots of short timed reading passages followed by a mc question set.

 

I just worked through that REA guide again last year with a tutoring student, and i can't remember having any problems with it. In flipping through quickly this morning, I can only find one scribble where we disagreed with the answer keys. It's a very well written book, unlike their physics SAT2 guide.

 

My kids are similar to Gratia's, especially my dd, the classics major. "Easy is hard & hard is easy", so tests like Latin SAT 2 that demand a good grasp of lots of detailed grammar rules were tougher for her than the AP Latin exam. She'd take a pure reading and essay test in Latin any day!

 

That's why I often suggest looking at the SAT 2 test at the completion of Latin 3. She waited till December of her AP year, and had to spend some time reviewing grammar that fall on top of an already too-busy schedule. In retrospect, she thought that she would have preferred to have taken it a year earlier.

 

I suspect that if your son is in Lukeion, that he is most likely more than ready after their Latin 3 class.

 

The actual SAT 2 registration is simple if he's already signed up for math. Yes, he can just stay and sit for a second exam that day, and they will just charge you for the extra test. We did that once, and it wasn't a hassle at all. It's only is a problem if you wish to add a language w/ listening test (test day procedures for subject tests).

 

[Dmmetler]

For those considering AP Latin, the most recent American Classical League journal has a deconstruction of last year's AP Latin free-response questions and the scoring on them. I imagine that you could find it in most college libraries. It definitely gave me a goal to shoot for as far as precision in translations.

 

 

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks.  I don't know if I will be able to track it down but I appreciate having the info.

 

For those considering AP Latin, the most recent American Classical League journal has a deconstruction of last year's AP Latin free-response questions and the scoring on them. I imagine that you could find it in most college libraries. It definitely gave me a goal to shoot for as far as precision in translations.

 

[Beth in Mint Hill]

I agree with the others, and think that it would be best to take the Sat subject test after Latin III, rather than doing it at the same time as the AP Latin. They are such different tests, aren't they!? 

Btw, for any student who would like more practice in Latin grammar, one of my colleagues is offering a summer workshop in Latin composition using Charles Bennett's antique text A New Latin Composition, which is available as a free download. This would be an excellent way to make the advanced Latin go down easier. It is such a unique opportunity and Kaitlin is a delightful Latin teacher!  It is the 3rd offering on this page:

 

I am really glad to hear about the article in the ACL journal. Sounds like I need to renew my membership! :)

[Kareni]

My daughter is now a college graduate, but this is what I posted some years ago (so the links may be to older editions).

 

My daughter took the SAT subject test in Latin after having taken out of the home Latin classes through AP Latin. (She used Cambridge Latin I through IV before her AP Latin class.) She scored around 740 as I recall.

When I asked my daughter what she found most helpful as regards this test, she said taking the sample test in the Official Study Guide for all SAT Subject Tests was quite helpful in showing her what was expected. If your child were to do that, I think that would give you a good idea of how prepared your child is. My daughter's Latin instructor recommended Excelability in Advanced Latin by Marianthe Colakis. My daughter also spent some time with the REA SAT Subject Test in Latin book.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks Kareni.  I got the REA book last week and the Excelability in on its way.

 

My daughter is now a college graduate, but this is what I posted some years ago (so the links may be to older editions).

 

My daughter took the SAT subject test in Latin after having taken out of the home Latin classes through AP Latin. (She used Cambridge Latin I through IV before her AP Latin class.) She scored around 740 as I recall.

When I asked my daughter what she found most helpful as regards this test, she said taking the sample test in the Official Study Guide for all SAT Subject Tests was quite helpful in showing her what was expected. If your child were to do that, I think that would give you a good idea of how prepared your child is. My daughter's Latin instructor recommended Excelability in Advanced Latin by Marianthe Colakis. My daughter also spent some time with the REA SAT Subject Test in Latin book.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

[TeaTotaler]

A question for those who have used the REA book - did you have a plan for how you covered the material?  I am trying to figure out how to have ds prep for the SAT Latin.  He is currently finishing up his PreCalc course with Derek Owens and plans to prep for the SAT Math 2 test.

 

Should I have him take the full length test in the Blue Book and work on weaknesses or just have him work through the REA book chapter by chapter?  Any suggestions?

 

Of course, after reading the other SAT subject test thread on "What is a good score", I'm wondering if ds should wait to take the SAT Latin in Dec or after AP Latin next year.

[Kareni]

I believe my daughter dipped into the REA book to address weak spots after she took the test in the blue book. 

 

I'd start with the blue book test and then make your plan after that.  My daughter was glad to have taken the subject test after the AP test.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[G5052]

A question for those who have used the REA book - did you have a plan for how you covered the material?  I am trying to figure out how to have ds prep for the SAT Latin.  He is currently finishing up his PreCalc course with Derek Owens and plans to prep for the SAT Math 2 test.

 

Should I have him take the full length test in the Blue Book and work on weaknesses or just have him work through the REA book chapter by chapter?  Any suggestions?

 

Of course, after reading the other SAT subject test thread on "What is a good score", I'm wondering if ds should wait to take the SAT Latin in Dec or after AP Latin next year.

 

The current REA book has a practice test that is similar to the SAT II that indicates areas of weakness.  If you don't do that, the book does have an 8-week study schedule.

 

My AP Latin student is going to take a week off, and then do the practice test.  I'm not expecting too many areas of weakness, so I may have him do more than the test indicates, but we'll see.  With Memorial Day and a day we plan to take off as a family, that will be 2 1/2 weeks of study before the SAT II.

[Kathy in Richmond]

I don't know specifically how my dd studied for it. I handed her the REA book, & she used it on her own. I do recall that she took the two practice exams in that guide & also two College Board released exams that we own.

Last year, I had a Latin 3 tutoring student, & I approached the SAT2 review more systematically with him. Since I didn't want to do solid SAT2 review & nothing else, I spread it out over a period of 6 weeks. Each week, I had him review six chapters in the REA guide, focusing on any points that seemed fuzzy. He did the end of chapter quizzes, and we discussed the answers during our class meetings.

 

During the last 4 of those 6 weeks, he also completed a practice SAT2 exam (2 from the REA book & 2 released CB exams). I checked over his answers & looked for areas that needed reinforcement. Then I recommended review on those concepts from REA or from other books that he had on hand. Excelability has a concise grammar and usage guide in the back, which is great for that purpose.

Throughout the whole year, we regularly did the reading portion of various NLE levels 3 and 3/4 released exams, in order to gain experience with a wide variety of authors. I think that helped a lot for the SAT2, too.

[Elise]

I just asked dd about her studying, and she said she just went through the book, working especially on grammatical concepts and vocab.  I know that's probably not very helpful!  I think she has blocked it out of her memory. :laugh:

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks ladies.  I will ponder this some more over the weekend. 

Right now, all I can think about is Rosie's son...so very sad. 

[G5052]

Follow up post...

 

DS did beautifully on the SAT II (almost a perfect score).  He took AP Latin this year from Lukeion, and did the AP Latin test in May.  Because of family events and illness (he was actually sick that day and went to the doctor afterwards), he studied for only two weeks with the REA book.  He took the practice test and then worked on the areas where he missed (just a few), then took the second practice test and worked on those areas.

 

The school we're targeting gives 12 credits for the score he got, exempting him from the foreign language requirement.  This is my languages kid, but he doesn't know what he wants to study in college.

 

My next one does fine in Latin, but is not a language whiz and is not taking it with Lukeion.  We may do three years of Latin in high school, try the SAT II Latin, and then do two semesters of dual enrollment Spanish.