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Can acceptance to university be affected by the intended major?


FloridaLisa
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You'd think I'd know this by now!  I've graduated three who are now happily and successfully enrolled in great programs.  Based on the experiences of several kids already in college and some that applied to top schools and didn't get in (even after appeal), I'm wondering whether admission is affected by intended major.  Is it harder to get in as an engineering or pre-med student? Is it more difficult for popular majors?  If you're a classics major at a competitive state uni, would that increase your chance of admission?

 

Lisa

 

 

 

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Absolutely.  At our state flagship university that is highly rated in engineering, the average ACT score (31-34 for the middle 50%) is about 6 points higher to get into the school of engineering than it is to get into Agriculture, Fine Arts, Education, Communications and about 5 points higher than the average for the rest of the school.  Also different majors within the different schools at the university have different entrance requirements.  For example, it is much easier to get into Civil Engineering than Electrical. 

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Ellen,

 

Are students accepted straight into the engineering college as freshman?  At our state uni, students are accepted only to the university and must apply separately to the colleges/schools within.  So I can see that it gets competitive for rising juniors even after general university acceptance.  But what about acceptance as a freshman? Is that also affected even by an *intended* major?

 

Lisa

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When we visited Va Tech, during general admissions talk the admissions director pretty much said it was harder to be admitted to engineering than anything else. When my neighbor visited the same school a couple years ago to look at the GIS department, she was told they had a mandate to grow that particular department, strongly implying it might be easier to get in with that degree listed on your application.

 

That said, I think this depends on the school. I don't think this is true of William and Mary. It's probably something that happens more at large universities with multiple schools (business, engineering, arts and sciences, agriculture, etc).

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I once read in a college guide book (can't remember the title) about a guy who wanted to go to a selective school to major in biology. He didn't think he'd make the cut though, so he instead declared an intent to major in Ornithology, and was accepted.

 

Departments want to fill majors, so, yes, I think applying with the intent to major in an area with low enrollment could increase the chances of admission. The converse could also be true.

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Engineering is not only  much harder for admissions, but Tech (Texas Tech University) has some very explicit explanations, in plain English, on one of the web  pages of the College of Engineering, that if one does not do well, one will be helped into another College within the university, where the courses are less demanding. I'm not sure of the URL of that web page as I type this, but here is a URL that can lead one to that information: http://www.depts.ttu.edu/coe/

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Ellen,

 

Are students accepted straight into the engineering college as freshman?  At our state uni, students are accepted only to the university and must apply separately to the colleges/schools within.  So I can see that it gets competitive for rising juniors even after general university acceptance.  But what about acceptance as a freshman? Is that also affected even by an *intended* major?

 

Lisa

 

Yes.  Also, applying as a freshman greatly increases your chances of getting in to highly desirable majors because, at this university, it is very difficult to transfer in - you would need a very high grade point average and probably meet some prereqs.  When I was in college, I wanted to transfer into the school of business (I was in math/computer science in the Liberal Arts school.)  Although as a freshman, I would more than qualified, I couldn't transfer in because my GPA wasn't high enough (it was about a B average, but my business classes were all A's.)  I hear it is even tougher now.  I am sure it would be easier at other schools, but when the engineering school gets 30,000 applications alone ... they can afford to be very picky.

 

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Ok, here's another piece of what led me to ponder this.  A friend's dc had good grades, good extracurricular and seemed within the range of those admitted.  This student applied as an "undeclared major."  In the imprecise world of admissions, could that have affected an up or down vote?

 

Lisa

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Ok, here's another piece of what led to ponder this.  A friend's dc had good grades, good extracurricular and seemed within the range of those admitted.  This student applied as an "undeclared major."  In the imprecise world of admissions, could that have affected an up or down vote?

 

I am not an admissions person, so I am guessing: if anything, I'd say down. I could imagine a college preferring a student who has a clear idea of what he wants to study and whose application reflects that he has cultivated a strong interest in that area - whereas undecided could mean a student with no clear goals what he wants from the college education and who chooses this path possibly because the parents expect it. I would expect the former student to be more likely to succeed than the latter.

 

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I agree with regentrude, but I would add that if a student is undecided, their essays should make a clear case as to why they are undecided and what they are looking at. A student who is undecided because he loves latin and greek and archaeology and is potentially considering classics but is also fascinated by economics and geography and history so might be considering something there and also thinks geology is pretty cool if he can make time to take some classes is a lot different than someone who is applying as undecided because college is the next step after high school but isn't really interested in any academic subject.

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I agree with regentrude, but I would add that if a student is undecided, their essays should make a clear case as to why they are undecided and what they are looking at. A student who is undecided because he loves latin and greek and archaeology and is potentially considering classics but is also fascinated by economics and geography and history so might be considering something there and also thinks geology is pretty cool if he can make time to take some classes is a lot different than someone who is applying as undecided because college is the next step after high school but isn't really interested in any academic subject.

 

.... in which (bolded) case the student could also make this very clear by stating that he is fascinated by two different areas and interested in pursuing a double major instead of simply stating undecided..

My DD who is on the fence between physics and English has announced that she will do both ;-)

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Now, the really interesting question is whether choice of major is helpful if the school does not differentiate in admissions requirements between different majors and colleges. For example, will the same female applicant have different chances depending on whether she announces that she wants to major in psychology or in nuclear engineering? The departments themselves do not have input in the admissions decisions, but the school overall might be on a mission to increase the number of female engineering students...or male early childhood educators

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It really matters in colleges that require a student to apply to a specific school within the university.  In that case, undecided doesn't really happen.  You either apply to the engineering school or you don't.  This is also where transferring is most difficult.

 

And if the dc is applying for a ROTC scholarship, make sure the intended major is the same on the ROTC application as the college application.  :toetap05:

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Now, the really interesting question is whether choice of major is helpful if the school does not differentiate in admissions requirements between different majors and colleges. For example, will the same female applicant have different chances depending on whether she announces that she wants to major in psychology or in nuclear engineering? The departments themselves do not have input in the admissions decisions, but the school overall might be on a mission to increase the number of female engineering students...or male early childhood educators

 

 

I doubt we'll find proof of this, but I am sure that most colleges have enrollment goals for each department.  That's a lot easier than hiring and firing tenured professors annually based on student enrollment needs.

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I doubt we'll find proof of this, but I am sure that most colleges have enrollment goals for each department.  That's a lot easier than hiring and firing tenured professors annually based on student enrollment needs.

 

well, the point of tenure is that they can not be fired...

 

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DD is strong in math, science, literature, and art (I know, it appears like an oxymoron at first).  So ya'll are saying that she should NOT go into engineering, right? What about mathematics?  Is that as competitive? 

 

Nobody is saying she should not go into engineering. Not all good engineering schools are terribly hard to get into.

She should go into engineering if engineering happens to be her passion and she has aptitude. Being good in math and science does not equal aptitude for engineering, as this theoretical physicist can attest.

I would discourage any student from choosing a major based on admission chances.

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.... in which (bolded) case the student could also make this very clear by stating that he is fascinated by two different areas and interested in pursuing a double major instead of simply stating undecided..

My DD who is on the fence between physics and English has announced that she will do both ;-)

 

Oh sure, but if they can't decide among six different sorta-related majors ... ;)

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Nobody is saying she should not go into engineering. Not all good engineering schools are terribly hard to get into.

She should go into engineering if engineering happens to be her passion and she has aptitude. Being good in math and science does not equal aptitude for engineering, as this theoretical physicist can attest.

I would discourage any student from choosing a major based on admission chances.

 

I agree 100%.

 

The only time that I would let admissions chances modify the major is if the student really was torn between two majors and one was far more competitive than the other.

 

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It really matters in colleges that require a student to apply to a specific school within the university.  

 

I have no particular expertise in this subject, but I have to imagine that this is true.  At the individual school level (i.e. beyond applying to the School of Engineering as opposed to the School of Arts and Sciences)  so many students change their majors after they arrive at college that I would be really surprised if admissions officers took applicants' declarations all that seriously, let alone gave them weight in the admissions process.  After all, there are entire university departments devoted to subjects that most students never (or barely) encounter in high school, and even familiar subjects can look very different at the university level.  

 

I'd be interested to know what an actual admissions person would say, though.  

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Now, the really interesting question is whether choice of major is helpful if the school does not differentiate in admissions requirements between different majors and colleges. For example, will the same female applicant have different chances depending on whether she announces that she wants to major in psychology or in nuclear engineering? The departments themselves do not have input in the admissions decisions, but the school overall might be on a mission to increase the number of female engineering students...or male early childhood educators

 

Yes, this was really the crux of my question. When the student is applying to the uni but not the schools within the uni.  Are schools looking at certain criteria at large or are they filling certain numbers/quotas for majors? For example, if there are too many business management applicants, are they being turned down at larger numbers than say astronomy majors? 

 

It certainly does in the UK - these are the statistics for Oxford.

 

L

 

That was interesting. Those are the kind of stats I've been searching for today. 

 

I definitely remember my son having to put his first and second choices of majors on college apps last year, but I can't recall if it was on the Common App or individual school forms.

I would never tell a kid to pick a certain major to up ther chances of admission.

 

Me either.  But one of the student guides at a university switched from music to engineering and when I was asking him how he decided to make such a switch, he said he'd always intended to go engineering but knew he could get his chances of getting into the university were better as a music major.  :huh:

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You'd think I'd know this by now!  I've graduated three who are now happily and successfully enrolled in great programs.  Based on the experiences of several kids already in college and some that applied to top schools and didn't get in (even after appeal), I'm wondering whether admission is affected by intended major.  Is it harder to get in as an engineering or pre-med student? Is it more difficult for popular majors?  If you're a classics major at a competitive state uni, would that increase your chance of admission?

 

Lisa

 

As others have said, absolutely! But I'll add data for two schools my son applied to.

 

Rochester Institute of Technology has a handy chart of requirements by major. It also shows middle SAT and ACT scores, so you can see, for example, that for the College of Liberal Arts the middle ACT scores (22-28) are quite different from those for Engineering and for Computer Science (both are 27-32). (ETA: I don't know if this is self-selection bias, or if one's intended major, if it's even indicated on the Common App, has an influence on admissions.)

 

UC Berkeley's acceptance rate for their College of Engineering this year was 9%; that for their College of Letters & Science (everything from Physics and Math to Gender Studies, Theater & Dance, Slavic Languages, Classics, etc.) was much higher, as the overall acceptance rate was about 17%. Now, the confusing thing (and we didn't figure this out until after my son had applied) is that Berkeley offers TWO Computer Science degrees -- a BA in the College of Letters and Science, and a BS in the College of Engineering. It seems much harder to be admitted if a student applies to the Engineering Department, but then he or she is "in," whereas a student who wants a BA in CS has to apply undeclared to L&S (although I think one indicates potential major(s) within L&S on the application) and then (hopefully) be admitted to the major later, based on grades in intro CS classes.

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It is very true in music. It is easier to gain admission as a music education major than a performance major. Depending on the school, theory and composition can be the toughest major to be admitted to and in music if you do not start in your major the first semester of your freshman year, you will not make it out on time. Additionally, in any given year, the music department changes as they fill specific positions. So one year they may snap up several string majors, the following year reject a huge number of very qualified violinists, and offer the moon to an oboist and a bassoonist. I made it in a big scholarships my freshman year because the department wanted a pianist with super strong sight reading skills and lots of accompanying experience and in particular vocal groups and chamber wind groups. That fit me to a tee.

 

My colllege's department did not want to deal with students who did not pass the audition process, so auditions and admissions went hand in hand...the application came in, was reviewed, and if requirements were met, you had a chance to audition and only after that would you find out if you gained admission to the college. However, some students with really good stats or interesting applications who did not pass auditions were sometimes provisionally admitted...ie...change your major and we'll consider a spot for you. To be honest, it seemed like a delicate song and dance between admissions and music because occasionally someone would com along who was profound on their instrument, or already composing at an extraordinary level and the music department would really want the student, but the stats were unsatisfactory and admissions would be reluctant. Sometimes they reached an agreement to take a musician on academic probation.

 

I dont' think every major or college functions this way. But, the bigger name LAC's and uni's with "schools of music" do, and the conservatories are an entirely different animal all together.

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That was interesting. Those are the kind of stats I've been searching for today. 

 

It's more obvious in most universities in England because you absolutely have to declare a major: you apply to a specific department within the university and it's very rare to make/to be allowed to make a switch to something unrelated.

 

L

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  • 3 weeks later...

 But one of the student guides at a university switched from music to engineering and when I was asking him how he decided to make such a switch, he said he'd always intended to go engineering but knew he could get his chances of getting into the university were better as a music major.  :huh:

 

I'm glad it worked out for this person, but it's important to do your research first.  At some schools it may be difficult to make a such drastic switch in majors.  I've heard of students biding their time, waiting for a spot to open up in the computer science department, so they can begin their major studies.  

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