Rethinking history - will it work?

[swimmermom3]

This is long and a bit confusing so please bear with me.

 

My original plan for high school history and literature was to basically follow The Well-Trained Mind's four-year Great Books plan divided by time frames.

 

Then, my son decided that without club swimming, due to his injury, he needed more social interaction and would be best served by starting at our local high school in 9th grade (after being at home for five years). At the semester, he said he missed our literature and history courses and wanted to do those at home. We are in an "all-or-nothing" state so that means we are now committed to a mom-issued diploma, no matter what.

 

Here is what he did for 9th grade:

 

Global Studies 9 (0.5 credit, public school) - Industrial Revolution, World War I (couldn't see connections)

English Lit. & Comp. 9 (0.5 credit, public school) - a few short stories and Night

 

Ancient World History and Literature to 400 AD (with me) - 1 credit for 2nd semester

The Earth and Its People: A Global History, pp. 2-220 (AP World History book - dry)

History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective (Lectures 1-39, TTC)

Epic of Gilgamesh

From Distant Days (excerpts)

Ancient Egyptian Literature (selections)

The Iliad

The Odyssey

Theogony

The Homeric Hymns (selected)

Oedipus the King, Oedipus at Colonus, and Antigone

The Birds ( a favorite with my son)

Aeneid (half, never a favorite no matter the translation)

 

I also have an anthology that allowed us to read excerpts from other world literature.

 

We used all of Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures for Iliad and Odyssey (24) and then any lecture from her Classical Mythology and Greek Tragedy courses that applied to what we were reading. Definitely the highlight of my son's year.

 

He took notes in the college text (his first), wrote a few papers, and did a bit more primary source work from Sources from the West, Vol. 1.

 

It bothered us both that we only touched on Plato, Aristotle, and the Roman authors.

 

Then, I lost my mind and my plan. A chance conversation sparked my decision to put my son in PAHS's AP English Lang. class for 10th grade. No regrets there, but it has been far more time-consuming than anticipated as has been the AP Euro class. After spending 3/4ths of the year chasing the AP Euro schedule, we both decided to forgo the test because frankly, we loathe the AP history format. It has been soul-sucking.

 

Ds has one more chapter to read in Ethel Wood's AP European History: An Essential Coursebook (switched to two months ago from main text) and two more lectures in our favorite lecture series, Foundation of Western Civilization, Part 2. Then he will have covered European history from 1600 to now on a broad level.

 

Where do we go from here?

 

At the end of high school, we want to accomplish the following:

 

1. Cover all of world history in depth (East and West), but to always combine it with literature. We did much of AP Euro without literature except what would work with AP English Language requirements. When we decided to ditch the AP test, we read Hard Times, All Quiet on the Western Front, and are now moving into A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch.  It makes a huge difference in both of our attitudes because the subjects become richer in combination than they do own their own.

 

2. Incorporate the Teaching Company lecture series for music and art into the appropriate time frames. We covered 5 lectures from the Understanding Art series that tied into the time period ds was studying. Then we went to our art museum and practiced what we learned. It was great for a guy who has no desire to draw, but is fascinated by the historical and political connections.  Even though the material would be spread out over the remaining two years, I would lump it all together and give him 1 Fine Arts credit.

 

3. Include religion and philosophy utilizing TC lectures and some short readings. (Give 1 credit)

 

4. Fold US history and government into the mix, but again spread out over time.

 

History and literature are the jewels in our homeschool program and I am no longer willing to sacrifice them for an AP credit. Okay, I lie a bit. Ds will still take AP English Literature, because he thinks the teacher will continue to challenge him. I don't know that there is a logical reason to take the AP Lit test if he scores a 4 or higher on the AP Lang test.

 

Do I have to appoint specific classes to specific years? For example, do I need to list European history for this year or can we pick up with medieval history and move forward from here?  I guess what I am asking is can I just keep track of everything we do and all of our resources and then divide it up in his senior year to make sense on his transcript?

 

Have I lost you all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Starr]

I think you can do what you want with his transcript. ;)  The important thing is that you document what he's done.

[rwjx2khsmj]

If you know what has been covered and are able to express it in a way that those interested in the transcript will understand and accept, you can do as you like. I love that what you are doing is interest led and so in depth. Isn't that what the rhetoric stage is all about? Understanding and expressing those connections.

[Corraleno]

I guess what I am asking is can I just keep track of everything we do and all of our resources and then divide it up in his senior year to make sense on his transcript?

 

That's exactly what I plan to do. Isn't that also what Nan did? I remember her posting about keeping a notebook where she recorded what her boys did, and then later grouped things into credits.

[swimmermom3]

That's exactly what I plan to do. Isn't that also what Nan did? I remember her posting about keeping a notebook where she recorded what her boys did, and then later grouped things into credits.

 

I think you are right and I may have that post of Nan's in a binder. I think I have a rather large number of Nan's post as she has saved me from insanity more than a few times and then of course, if I would listen to regentrude's voice of reason on a few topics, I wouldn't be in this bind.

 

I thought AP history courses would be a natural choice for a student that loves history. In my son's case, the love of history was the exact reason not to do AP history classes. My older kids both loved AP European History, but they held their grades at B's with no plans to take the test. The class was taken for the sheer joy of the subject and the awesome ps teacher.

 

 

[regentrude]

I would keep track of everything you did and create course titles and descriptions in retrospect.

A few things we did:

We have covered music and art history continuously throughout high school; I have given 0.25 credits for each year, and at the end of high school there was a cumulative credit in each.

We have integrated the study of US history chronologically into our study of world history and labeled the courses "US history in a World Context - 1500-1900" and "US history in a World Context - 20th century", respectively. We did not want to spend an entire year on US history, and DD was working on certain specific fields of history with only a cursory coverage of others - so this allowed us wiggle room to do what we wanted under an umbrella title that on one hand satisfies the colleges' desire to see US history and on the other hand makes it clear that we did a chronological world history coverage.

[Susie in CA]

I think you are right and I may have that post of Nan's in a binder. I think I have a rather large number of Nan's post as she has saved me from insanity more than a few times and then of course, if I would listen to regentrude's voice of reason on a few topics, I wouldn't be in this bind.

 

I thought AP history courses would be a natural choice for a student that loves history. In my son's case, the love of history was the exact reason not to do AP history classes. My older kids both loved AP European History, but they held their grades at B's with no plans to take the test. The class was taken for the sheer joy of the subject and the awesome ps teacher.

 

 

Yes, I remember Nan's post about this as well. In fact, I also started a binder in which I keep track of what we are doing in various subjects for that exact purpose. Good Luck to you Lisa. I know you can do it. :-)

[JennW in SoCal]

We did what we did and not until the summer before senior year did I try to sort it all out to create the transcript and course descriptions.  I had a reading list for each course along with a reading list that included materials used over all 4 years, even Teaching Company courses that we used bits and pieces of over the 4 years.  I also grouped courses on the transcript by subject, rather than by year.  

 

It worked for my ds.  A few admissions counselors told me they really liked the transcript divided by subject as it was easier for them to get a sense of what all had been covered.  

 

 

[Corraleno]

I thought AP history courses would be a natural choice for a student that loves history. In my son's case, the love of history was the exact reason not to do AP history classes. My older kids both loved AP European History, but they held their grades at B's with no plans to take the test. The class was taken for the sheer joy of the subject and the awesome ps teacher.

 

Same here! 

 

DS is currently immersing himself in tracing the linguistic and cultural history of Central Asia, including dabbling in Tuvan, Mongolian, Kazakh, and Chulym languages; watching Kenneth Hale's most recent TC course; reading assorted books; and listening to lots of Central Asian music. He's taught himself the "sygyt" style of throat-singing and is working on the "kargyraa" style. Depending on how much work he does, whether he writes a paper, etc., that may end up being a half credit elective on it's own, or I may fold the history parts into a larger World History credit, the language stuff into a larger Linguistics or World Languages credit, and the music into a cumulative credit in World Music. It's great to have the flexibility to make those decisions down the road, rather than having to either eschew rabbit trails in order to stay "on track" with traditional courses or try to immediately "convert" DS's interests into a standard-looking history credit. 

[Dina in Oklahoma]

I sincerely appreciate this post as we begin our high school journey in the fall! :lurk5: 

[Connections]

Two questions (if you don't mind me piggy backing):

 

(1) I have seen a couple of sample transcripts that people grouped by subject but also included the year completed. Are you suggesting grouping by subject solely (with no indication of the year completed)? Just curious as I like to have options.

 

(2) Do you think it would work to study an AP History topic by folding in literature and taking it slowly and following rabbit trails, etc. and NOT completing the entire textbook and then spending a few weeks studying for the exam and learning (for the test) whatever you did not cover during the year? I am kinda looking for a best of both worlds approach here.

 

(Thanks for letting me break in. Sorry I have no advice for you situation.)

 

 

 

 

[JennW in SoCal]

Two questions (if you don't mind me piggy backing):

 

(1) I have seen a couple of sample transcripts that people grouped by subject but also included the year completed. Are you suggesting grouping by subject solely (with no indication of the year completed)? Just curious as I like to have options.

 

(2) Do you think it would work to study an AP History topic by folding in literature and taking it slowly and following rabbit trails, etc. and NOT completing the entire textbook and then spending a few weeks studying for the exam and learning (for the test) whatever you did not cover during the year? I am kinda looking for a best of both worlds approach here.

 

(Thanks for letting me break in. Sorry I have no advice for you situation.)

 

 

I can't address the AP question as we never did any AP courses or tests.  But I can say that my son's transcript simply grouped courses by subject with a column for credits earned and a column for the grade.  There was no indication of what was taken when.

[swimmermom3]

Two questions (if you don't mind me piggy backing):

 

(1) I have seen a couple of sample transcripts that people grouped by subject but also included the year completed. Are you suggesting grouping by subject solely (with no indication of the year completed)? Just curious as I like to have options.

 

(2) Do you think it would work to study an AP History topic by folding in literature and taking it slowly and following rabbit trails, etc. and NOT completing the entire textbook and then spending a few weeks studying for the exam and learning (for the test) whatever you did not cover during the year? I am kinda looking for a best of both worlds approach here.

 

(Thanks for letting me break in. Sorry I have no advice for you situation.)

 

I will probably take the approach that JennW and others have mentioned as far as not listing the year completed. This allows us to go back and pick up Aristotle perhaps at the end of this year, but I would list it under Ancient World History, which we did predominantly last year. I like the chronological approach, but things come up like The Teaching Company releasing a new course like Foundations of Eastern Civilization this year, but probably half of the material falls under the "Ancient" time frame. We are doing the course now because it's an area of interest.  Also, we completed our European history this year (1600 - now), but I will probably split that content up up by eras.

 

About the AP history, I am not sure I am the best person to ask.  I probably reviewed 20+ syllabi while constructing mine and trying to work out the pacing. It's a tremendous amount of material and you don't have a full school year to cover it since the test is in the second week in May. The material is excellent, but one to two weeks on the Renaissance is pretty quick work for a period that is rich in new philosophies and amazing art. I am uncomfortable as the teacher doing this kind of surface coverage, while also dedicating a three weeks to a month just to test preparation.

 

What we have decided to do is to continue with our world history studies and go deeper. I will keep my syllabus registered with AP Central for the next two years, that way if ds ends up taking the test, I can label a class with AP if I want to. 

 

I think the approach you have mentioned is plausible. I have certainly read enough reviews of test prep books to know that there are a lot of kids out there who had limited access to texts or very poor teachers and who rely on the test prep books to get their five.  It depends on what you want to get out of the class. I also can't really tell you if part of the problem wasn't that I knew at a gut level that our approach wasn't right for either of us and that showed in my attitude towards the class. I was forever pushing and saying "We don't have time to talk about that." The first thing we did when we decided to drop the test was to start watching a BBC special on World War I. It was filmed in the '60's and used all archival film footage and interviews with soldiers on both sides. It was remarkable, but there were maybe 2 dozen or more episodes. No time for that if we were pushing for the test.

 

If you decide to go forward with AP Euro, let me know and I can steer you towards numerous good resources.

[MtnTeaching]

You are all making me re-think how I want to do my transcript.  I just assumed that I would have to list the subjects under the year we did them, even if some of them were spread out a bit over several years.  Listing by subject seems so much more practical.

 

We had a similar problem to yours with the Aeneid.  Ds studied World History in 9th and I was extremely ambitious.  His reading list was similar to yours.  One of the books was Dante's Inferno.  He absolutely abhorred it and I finally just let it go. This year, as a junior, he had to read it for his Center for Lit class.  I am not sure if it was the increase in maturity or just that he managed to get into it more, but he really enjoyed it this time around.

 

Thank you for asking these questions, it helps all of us.

[Connections]

 

If you decide to go forward with AP Euro, let me know and I can steer you towards numerous good resources.

 

We will likely pursue AP Euro but we have not decided when. I would love any good sources you would recommend! (No rush, though.)

 

Thanks!

[Luckymama]

but things come up like The Teaching Company releasing a new course like Foundations of Eastern Civilization this year, but probably half of the material falls under the "Ancient" time frame. We are doing the course now because it's an area of interest.

 

 

Holy cow! <rushes off to check it out>

 

Thanks :)