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Would you be upset if your grandchildren barely spoke English?


Indian summer
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I would find it challenging if I did not speak my grandchildren's first language, but if I were fluent in that language I don't think it would bother me. I would encourage them in learning English though because it is such a useful language to speak globally.

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My kids don't speak German. Their Oma does not speak English. I suppose she isn't thrilled, but there isn't much she can do about it. When we visit she just speaks German and they cope (just as I do). It doesn't take long for us to figure out how to communicate what we need.

 

Would I be upset? Well I suppose I'd be a bit sad, but being that I'm on the other end of such a circumstance, it is not like I don't know how these things happen.

Our situation is similar, that's why I asked. Except the grandparents do speak English too.

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We face this because my kids do not speak any Arabic except for some food words and counting, and DH's Mom does not speak conversational English well (although strangely, she lectures in English as it's the language of medical school in Egypt.)

 

I begged, pleaded, etc. for DH to speak to the kids only in Arabic, but he felt strange doing so.  He thought that I should teach them Arabic, when I do not speak it.

 

I feel horrible about it because it definitely creates a barrier.  They have closer relationships with their Egyptian relatives who can speak English more fluently.  I am trying to help improve their Egyptian Arabic, but it's a slow process.

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My children do not speak my ILs primary language.  I don't speak my ILs primary language.  I told dh that it was up to him and/or his parents to teach our kids to speak that language.  They didn't and I don't feel guilty or badly at all.  My ILs do speak English and communicate with my children in English.  My children do have an understanding of my ILs culture and know some words (mainly food!).  We have gone back to their country of origin to visit.  I have gotten my kids story books of the countries myths, legends and folk tales.  (I've done the same with language and stories from the country of my birth.  My kids know a smattering of words but are not fluent in that language either.  And I take full responsibility for having dropped the ball on that.)

 

If my grandkids were in a similar situation I would try to introduce them to my culture, including some words.  If asked to, I would do more but wouldn't push it in any way.  I would instead focus on communication and relationship which is much more important anyway.  

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If DS and his spouse moved to a country where their kids would learn another language as their first, I'd take that language up if I didn't know it already.

But if they were entitled to dual citizenship (and DS being from the US, they probably would be), I'd try to help them learn some English, too, just to have more options. For me it would be about practical rather than cultural issues.

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I would expect them to speak whatever the dominant language is where they are being raised. I'd certainly want to be able to talk them directly, so I'd do my best to learn their language. I wouldn't expect someone living in a non-English-speaking country to teach their kids English for my convenience. I think it would smart to teach them, if it's convenient and affordable to do so, but I don't think I have the right to be upset if they don't. 

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Or your mother tongue, if it's not English?

 

What if you were fluent in the language they did speak, even if it was not your mother tongue? How would you feel?

I would be sad if I did not see my grandchildren enough that some of my language would be absorbed. I wouldn't be angry at anyone, but sad? Yes. Naturally I hope to be close to my grandchildren and I communicate with them a lot. If I spoke their language, that would be fine, though. I just would like easy communication with them in any language.
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If they didn't live in an English speaking country, I wouldn't expect them to speak English.  If I spoke the language they speak, that would be fine.  I'd be super sad if I didn't speak their language and they didn't speak mine.  It doesn't matter the language, as long as we could communicate.

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We have that situation in our family.  It's not a big deal.  MIL is Korean, and speaks English well.  She's had opportunity to teach the kids some Korean, but hasn't really capitalized on it.  I encourage the learning when it does happen.  They know a few words, but not enough to communicate.

 

 

How would I feel?  Well, I'd teach my grandkids a few words every time the visited and make a game of it.  I'd want them to learn my language, but I wouldn't push it if it were unwanted.

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Or your mother tongue, if it's not English?

 

What if you were fluent in the language they did speak, even if it was not your mother tongue? How would you feel?

 

I am facing this very possible scenario. We are immigrants, and should our children marry here in the US, it is very likely that their partners will not be German, and they my kids will not teach their kids our native language, because teaching a second language in a country where the language of the environment is different IS a lot of work and even more difficult of parents speak different languages.

 

I would be a bit sad,  but not upset. I hope they would allow me a chance to expose my grandchildren to my native language and to possibly teach them - if our locations make that feasible.

 

ETA: Should one of my children choose to marry a person with yet a different native language or even relocate to another country, I would try very hard to learn this language as well.

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If I were fluent in the language my grandchildren spoke, that would be fine. If I didn't know the language they spoke, I would try to learn it. I would try to help them learn some English if they wanted to do that.

 

Eta: to answer the question, I wouldn't be upset. I'd just want to be able to communicate and would try to find ways to facilitate that, whether in English or another language.

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I would try to learn my son/daughter-in-law's language as best I could (would be difficult if it's a tonal language but I'd give it my best shot) and I would expect my child to try to teach the grandchild(ren) English. I would provide financial assistance for English language teaching materials and classes/tutoring as much as I were able to.

 

My great-grandma was a native Spanish speaker and my grandma was bilingual. My great-grandma sadly passed on when my grandma was a teenager so my mom never knew her or that side of the family. But my mom regrets that her parents didn't teach her Spanish (my grandpa was also fluent as he did his PhD. dissertation on Argentinian economics). My mom studied Russian, of all things, in high school.

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It would be hard to not be able to speak to my grandchildren. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect grandparents to learn enough of their grandchildren's native language to be able to communicate well with them, and it's not really up to young children to decide what languages they're speaking. I don't think it's unreasonable for grandparents to be upset and disappointed about it especially when it's something largely beyond their control. It would also be difficult because long-distance relationships often rely on verbal communication and that would be impossible.

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If they didn't live in an English speaking country, I wouldn't expect them to speak English.  If I spoke the language they speak, that would be fine.  I'd be super sad if I didn't speak their language and they didn't speak mine.  It doesn't matter the language, as long as we could communicate.

 

But wouldn't you think that their English-speaking parent (or whatever the language is that is native to the parent and grandparent) would speak English to the children so they would have that connection to their heritage?

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But wouldn't you think that their English-speaking parent (or whatever the language is that is native to the parent and grandparent) would speak English to the children so they would have that connection to their heritage?

Ideally yes but life often tends away from the ideal :) Keeping up two languages within a family is difficult, and if the other parent does not speak English and people in the community do not speak English it would not be at all unusual for the family to default to the local language.

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But wouldn't you think that their English-speaking parent (or whatever the language is that is native to the parent and grandparent) would speak English to the children so they would have that connection to their heritage?

 

They should - but the reality is that many parents drop the ball when they are marrying spouses of a different language and are not teaching their children consistently. There are families on these boards where dad has not made enough of an effort to teach his kids his native language. Statistically is probably more likely that moms will pass on the language, whereas dads are more likely not to (and use working long hours as an excuse... at least these are the examples I have encountered).

This said: in my environment I have plenty of multilingual families, and the children can be fluent in three languages if the parents make it a priority - even when working demanding jobs. But it requires a lot of work and persistence. It does not just "happen".

 

ETA: I have found that the families in which trilinguality works best are those where the spouses have made the effort to learn each other's language and where all family members speak all three languages. If that is not the case, OPOL still works, but it harder.

 

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This is a situation I could face as ds wants to move to a foreign country and would really rather speak another language than English. I can see him neglecting to teach his children English. In that case, I would learn what I could to communicate with my grandchildren. However, I don't see myself living in a non-English speaking country and if they did my visits would be not as often. 

 

I'm not sure how I'd feel. Ds has a great relationship with my parents, and I hope to have a good one with his children, but I don't expect him to live as close either. 

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I would only be upset if they didn't speak English if they lived in a place where English was the norm.  I would encourage my children to keep my grandchildren bilingual if it was practical for them to do so, but I can't make decisions for adults-even my adult children. If they live in another place where English isn't the norm, odds are they will be very far away and our visits will likely be infrequent.  Demanding they learn a second language for infrequent visits is unrealistic.

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we have cousins in the family that do not speak much English. Japanese is their first language. I have never heard anyone say they were upset by it. They live in Japan and live Japanese lives, their language is Japanese. They are learning English, but they are not great with it. Their mom did try to teach them English, and did speak it to them when they were babies, but it got totally subsumed by Japanese. Their father is Japanese and doesn't speak English and didn't expect English to be spoken in the house.

 

But no one is upset by it. Upset perhaps that they live so far away, but that is a different issue.

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But wouldn't you think that their English-speaking parent (or whatever the language is that is native to the parent and grandparent) would speak English to the children so they would have that connection to their heritage?

 

That would be nice, yes, but it wouldn't be upsetting to me if they didn't.  It is not especially easy to make a concentrated effort for one parent to speak one language to the children and the other to speak another language to them so I wouldn't blame them for not doing it.

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I would hope that my grandchildren would be able to speak English, simply because I think it is practical language to know.  However, that would be up to my child (their parent) to decide.  If they don't feel the same way, I would understand.  For this to happen, they would have to be living in another country, so I would assume that I would see them very, very rarely anyway.  Therefore, I guess it wouldn't be that important if we could communicate well anyway.  

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An older person without language learning experience and who does not live in an area where the language is spoken would likely find the task of learning a new language very difficult.

Exactly. I've known many older adults who've found it very difficult to learn new languages and there's plenty of research out there about it. My parents moved to Russia for 2 years in their 60s found it really hard to learn Russian despite a huge time commitment (hours a day) to learning Russian and living there. I don't think my mother ever got to the point where she could have a meaningful conversation with a grandchild. She could have communicated with a grandchild in Russian, but it wouldn't have been anything like what she can do with her English-speaking grandchildren. I've talked to other older adults who had to learn new languages for work in their 50s and 60s and had a much harder time than they had with earlier languages.

 

So no, I don't expect grandparents to learn their grandchildren's languages. Maybe it happens sometimes, but I don't think it's realistic.

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In-laws are annoyed with my hubby that our kids can't speak cantonese. They are upset that our kids aren't as good in chinese as their other grandkids. They are very practical though and would rather our kids are great at english than be average at both english and chinese.

My dad being a retired chinese teacher is upset that my kids chinese is substandard. My mum thinks that my kids will pick up when they want to as they are as headstrong as me. Only my dad and brother find languages hard.

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Upset?  No.  Sad maybe.  But presumably there would be a set of circumstances that I would understand and accept or be angry about and have to figure out how to accept.  We used to have neighbors that were from different countries but had met in the US and married.  English became their common language.  They had kids and then they moved to yet another country with another language.  Those kids would need to speak four languages to get along and be able to communicate with their grandparents.  Sometimes there are just limits, even if you're trying, you know?

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We failed at teaching the kids Spanish, albeit there are extenuating circumstances. No one's ever been upset that the boys don't speak Spanish since it was so hard for them to even learn to speak English and GW's still working on it. Trinqueta was the youngest and by the time she was learning to talk, we were spending all of our time modeling and reinforcing English with the boys so she just didn't learn Spanish. I'm trying to remedy that now that she's old enough to actually study the grammar and learn it as a foreign language. My in-laws all speak English to some extent and my MIL is bilingual so it hasn't affected their relationship.

 

OTOH, English is so essential for professional prospects in so many fields in so many countries that I'd be worried if my grandkids weren't learning it. The boys had English lessons in their Venezuelan preschool and their cousins speak very good English without having even done English camps in the US yet. I'm sure they'll be fluent by the time they're ready for university.

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I would be disappointed if my kids had a "golden opportunity" to raise truly bilingual kids and didn't. But that's just a me thing.  I'd like to think I'd do my darndest to communicate in their language.

 

I've always been jealous of people raised bilingual.  When I learned that my Swedish speaking great-grandmother refused to speak Swedish to her children, I couldn't wrap my mind around it.
Okay, I guess I could - it was her way of being forced to become fluent in English in an English speaking country.  But it always seemed like such a wasted opportunity to me.

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I think I'd try to learn the child's language. If I had a grandchild who was deaf I'd learn sign language. I'd learn whatever I could to be able to communicate with my grandchildren. 

 

I think culture, cultural traditions and family traditions would be something I cared about more. 

 

I understand that some research has found giving yourself mental challenges like learning a language is good for your brain as you age. So, learning a new language good for grandparents. 

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We have this situation in our family. DH's parents speak German and heavily accented English. They are slightly sad that DH and I are yet to get our act together to teach German to the kids. They get it, though.

 

My grandmother, however, holds a grudge that my father never taught my sister or me any of the *5* other languages she speaks. (Neglecting the fact she never taught my dad anything other than English either.) So much of a grudge that she has put a condition in her will that my kids only get money for college if they learn another living language to fluency. I suppose this is a good problem for my kids and I to have, but still. Priorities different from where I would put them.

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But wouldn't you think that their English-speaking parent (or whatever the language is that is native to the parent and grandparent) would speak English to the children so they would have that connection to their heritage?

 

I had every intention to do so but failed. My son was somewhat resistant because I was the only one who spoke this "strange gibberish" in his mind. All other relatives, his dad and his little friends spoke English. I gave up unfortunately when he was about 3. We stood outside on a clear summer night and I pointed at the moon and said the word in another language. He put his little arms on his hips and looked at me in an exasperated manner and said firmly (and in English): "Mommy. It's the moon!"

 

I know I should have persisted but it was difficult and I lapsed more and more. When he was older he wished I had taught him more and he became more interested. C'est la vie!  :)

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I might be a bit sad. How I reacted would depend a lot on how old the children were and how the parents were handling language acquisition. 

 

If they were living in the US and working to preserve the second (non-English) language I would do everything I could to help. That would include learning as much of that language as I could and only using that language if requested. 

 

If they were living outside of the US or the children were older, I would offer to have English immersion summers. I would be fine with another language being their primary language, but I think English would be helpful as a second language and I would encourage my son/dil in that direction. 

 

 

The US is not the easiest country to raise a bilingual/trilingual child unless a strong language community is already in place. I would want to support my children in any way possible. 

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Or your mother tongue, if it's not English?

 

No. My kids can raise their kids to speak whatever language they feel is appropriate for their family. Why would I have anything to say about it?

 

If it were another language I'm fluent in, bonus for me.

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I'd not be upset, but if I'm honest I would be a bit disappointed for them that the opportunity was lost (and I resolve now never to mention it!).

 

But I can understand that it is not easy to maintain a language island if you and your children are the only ones speaking it.  My sister spoke our home language to her oldest child, but eventually they switched to English and the younger siblings have only learned English.

 

My siblings and cousins live all over the world and have married different language speakers (English is the common language between us) and some have raised bilingual children while others have not - it is a really individual thing.

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Or your mother tongue, if it's not English?

 

What if you were fluent in the language they did speak, even if it was not your mother tongue? How would you feel?

 

I would be heartbroken if I was not fluent in the language of my grandchildren and if my child didn't care enough to teach their child English so that we could have the best relationship possible. When I think of the riches of my relationship with my grandparents, I would not want to deprive my children of that if I were the parent in question. Unless I wanted my parents cut out of my kids' life because they are toxic in some way, I would make sure they knew my parents' language.To expect someone older to learn a language well enough to communicate fluently is unrealistic, yet it is so easy for a child to acquire a new language. For the parents to not provide a way for the grandparents and grandchildren to truly communicate cuts out the full possibilities of grandparent-grandchild relationship.

 

As a potential grandmother, like I said, I would be just heartbroken to be forever the "weird" grandmother with not only another culture but without the ability to communicate. There is no way you can have the same type of relationship that a child can have with a grandparent who does speak their language.

 

I know kids in a similar situation, and they understand the grandparents, but only one child actually speaks the language. I have asked them about it and they feel awkward with those grandparents. And their parents are trying. The father only speaks his native language at home with them. For parents not to try at all just seems very uncaring to me.

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We face this because my kids do not speak any Arabic except for some food words and counting, and DH's Mom does not speak conversational English well (although strangely, she lectures in English as it's the language of medical school in Egypt.)

 

I begged, pleaded, etc. for DH to speak to the kids only in Arabic, but he felt strange doing so.  He thought that I should teach them Arabic, when I do not speak it.

 

I feel horrible about it because it definitely creates a barrier.  They have closer relationships with their Egyptian relatives who can speak English more fluently.  I am trying to help improve their Egyptian Arabic, but it's a slow process.

 

Yes, that would be my attitude, too, to do everything I could to facilitate the relationship. And like English for non-English speakers, I would think in the world today that speaking Arabic  would be a major asset as well.

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I would be heartbroken if I was not fluent in the language of my grandchildren and if my child didn't care enough to teach their child English so that we could have the best relationship possible.  <snip>

 

To expect someone older to learn a language well enough to communicate fluently is unrealistic, yet it is so easy for a child to acquire a new language.  <snip>

 

 For parents not to try at all just seems very uncaring to me.

 

Turn that around: your kids would be very disappointed in you if you didn't care enough to learn their child's language so that you could have the best relationship possible. 

 

I have seen way too many posts over the years, including in this thread, to think that its easy to teach a child a language to fluency just b/c a parent knows it. It seems to be critical to have regular access to other local people who also speak it. There are so many smart, organized, well-intentioned people who have failed at it that I know it must be quite difficult in reality. 

 

I would also be very sad if my grandkids and I couldn't communicate easily, but I don't think it's fair to place the entire burden and blame on them either. Adults are quite capable of learning languages - they may have more of an accent than if they had started earlier, but the theory of a 'critical window' for learning languages has been largely disproven. 

 

It's not like you'd have to be ready to talk when the kid is born, y'know?  It's not like most toddlers are up for in-depth conversation; the grandparent has years to pick up some of the basics. Conversation is the only thing they would have to worry about, and it is easier when you don't have to worry about spelling, the finer points of grammar, and so on. 

 

The toughest situation would be English on one side and something like Arabic or Chinese on the other side - but it would be harder on both sides. I don't know how successful I'd be with those languages, but I'd consider it my responsibility to try. There are so many resources available today, including Skype tutors for any language, that I don't think "I'm too old" is a reasonable excuse for not trying.  

 

I also think most parents would give it at least some effort, and the kid will have at least some words and phrases in the other language. If the grandparent in turn has a basic knowledge, that can take them pretty far. 

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Turn that around: your kids would be very disappointed in you if you didn't care enough to learn their child's language so that you could have the best relationship possible. 

 

I have seen way too many posts over the years, including in this thread, to think that its easy to teach a child a language to fluency just b/c a parent knows it. It seems to be critical to have regular access to other local people who also speak it. There are so many smart, organized, well-intentioned people who have failed at it that I know it must be quite difficult in reality. 

 

I would also be very sad if my grandkids and I couldn't communicate easily, but I don't think it's fair to place the entire burden and blame on them either. Adults are quite capable of learning languages - they may have more of an accent than if they had started earlier, but the theory of a 'critical window' for learning languages has been largely disproven. 

 

It's not like you'd have to be ready to talk when the kid is born, y'know?  It's not like most toddlers are up for in-depth conversation; the grandparent has years to pick up some of the basics. Conversation is the only thing they would have to worry about, and it is easier when you don't have to worry about spelling, the finer points of grammar, and so on. 

 

The toughest situation would be English on one side and something like Arabic or Chinese on the other side - but it would be harder on both sides. I don't know how successful I'd be with those languages, but I'd consider it my responsibility to try. There are so many resources available today, including Skype tutors for any language, that I don't think "I'm too old" is a reasonable excuse for not trying.  

 

I also think most parents would give it at least some effort, and the kid will have at least some words and phrases in the other language. If the grandparent in turn has a basic knowledge, that can take them pretty far. 

 

You're assuming my post is based on an unwillingness to learn other languages and a faulty knowledge of language acquisition.

 

I am actually basing it on my own experience in learning language. I've tried to learn another language (one capatible with English--lots of cognates) for several years because I really want to speak it to be able to communicate with immigrants in our area.  I am not at all good at learning another language now---and I used to be. It was super easy for me to learn other languages when I was younger--in my 20s or so. Not at all now. Stuff just doesn't "stick" as well. It's just reality. It's not some theoretical belief based on window of learning. If I had to speak to grandchildren in the language I've been working on for years, I could maybe do okay, but there would be a lot of misunderstandings. A whole new language? I doubt that I could do it. I could get some phrases, but phrases do not a rich relationship make.

 

And for the kids I know (and I live in an area where this is not uncommon) the language barrier is a huge impediment to relationship with the grandparents.

 

 

 

 

 

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You're assuming my post is based on an unwillingness to learn other languages and a faulty knowledge of language acquisition.

 

I am actually basing it on my own experience in learning language. I've tried to learn another language for several years because I really want to speak it to be able to communicate with immigrants in our area.  I am not at all good at learning another language now---and I used to be. It was super easy for me to learn other languages when I was younger--in my 20s or so. Not at all now. Stuff just doesn't "stick" as well. It's just reality. It's not some theoretical belief based on window of learning. If I had to speak to grandchildren in the language I've been working on for years, I could maybe do okay, but there would be a lot of misunderstandings. A whole new language? I doubt that I could do it.

 

And for the kids I know (and I live in an area where this is not uncommon) the language barrier is a huge impediment to relationship with the grandparents.

 

But some kids have great difficulty learning languages as well; it's definitely not 'so easy' for everyone just b/c they are starting young (especially if they are not in an immersion or intense classroom situation, but just being taught by one parent). 

 

Just as you not reaching fluency doesn't mean you don't care, the kid not reaching fluency doesn't mean the parents don't care.  As many people have posted in various threads, sometimes parents ARE pretty diligent about speaking the language, and it just doesn't "stick" b/c the child so rarely uses it otherwise. Or maybe their good intentions do indeed fall by the wayside; when my kids were little, I considered the day successful if I showered and dressed and slapped one semi-nutritious meal on the table. 

 

You would have a lot more motivation, opportunity to practice, and positive feedback when learning the language of your grandkids, so you might have more success, also! It's not like only the kids would speak it - if the kids are not learning English, then chances are both of the parents must speak it as well. 

 

In an ideal world, the effort is on both sides. I do personally think the grandparent should be working at it steadily and long-term, rather than taking the stance that it's too hard for them, but certainly the grandkids should learn their language.  

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To expect someone older to learn a language well enough to communicate fluently is unrealistic, yet it is so easy for a child to acquire a new language. For the parents to not provide a way for the grandparents and grandchildren to truly communicate cuts out the full possibilities of grandparent-grandchild relationship.

...For parents not to try at all just seems very uncaring to me.

 

Are you raising bilingual children?

 

It is very easy for the child to learn a language, but very hard for the parent to provide consistent language instruction and immersion in a foreign language environment.

People who do not actively try to raise bilingual children have no idea how difficult it is in reality. My children were born in Germany, my DD was fluent before she left, and we have the benefit of having both parents speak the language at home - but developing fluency is an uphill battle even for families who consider passing on their language a high priority.

There will be phases when the children are conflicted about their identity and refuse to speak the language, sometimes for months and years. As they get older, friends play a greater role; if the parent does not homeschool, the child is in a school environment that dominates his life, and that language will become the dominant one. Teaching a large sophisticated vocabulary requires conscious effort.

 

I consider it desirable for parents to pass on their language, but calling it "uncaring" when parents are overwhelmed by the demands of their lives seems a bit unfair.

 

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Are you raising bilingual children?

 

It is very easy for the child to learn a language, but very hard for the parent to provide consistent language instruction and immersion in a foreign language environment.

People who do not actively try to raise bilingual children have no idea how difficult it is in reality. My children were born in Germany, my DD was fluent before she left, and we have the benefit of having both parents speak the language at home - but developing fluency is an uphill battle even for families who consider passing on their language a high priority.

There will be phases when the children are conflicted about their identity and refuse to speak the language, sometimes for months and years. As they get older, friends play a greater role; if the parent does not homeschool, the child is in a school environment that dominates his life, and that language will become the dominant one. Teaching a large sophisticated vocabulary requires conscious effort.

 

I consider it desirable for parents to pass on their language, but calling it "uncaring" when parents are overwhelmed by the demands of their lives seems a bit unfair.

 

I think we agree. You'll notice that I said when parents don't try at all it is uncaring. As I said, I'm in an environment in which there are many immigrant families of various nationalities and parents of various educational achievement. I am very aware of kids not wanting to be different than their peers and so rejecting the language, etc.

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