warneral Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We decided to try TT7 with ds after he finished MM5. He did pretty well but could use some more practice so I thought TT7 would be good as he is ready to have a change in format. I like that he will be having spiral practice, and that he will get the audio-visual presentation of the lessons. He could use that right now before we head to pre-Algebra. What I'm not so sure about is the "second chance". It seems too easy to make careless mistakes since he has another try. I'm wondering how the quiz works? I looked at the gradebook and it says "number of attempts". Do they grade by giving the kid a second chance on each problem? I'm not sure I like that because in Math you are either correct or wrong. Rarely in life (and never in tests) do you get another try and figuring it. Is there a good reason for the second chance? How does it work for tests? Is there a way to work around it? I am already going to manually grade his quizzes and give him a percentage based on first tries, but would like to hear if there is something I am missing. I just paid $150 and DS is excited about it, so I am not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe just the bathwater?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I will preface this by saying we have stepped away from TT to work on some foundational skills but intend to go back to it as one part of our math program. The way I was using it, I had my child watch the lesson, then do the lesson problems in the workbook. After that, they entered the answers on screen. If they made an error they didn't watch the video until they had attempted to determine why they made an error. And I emphasize pretty heavily that an error is not a bad thing even with our other math programs. It just means something was missed. Was it a simple computational mistake? Misunderstanding what was being asked or not reading instructions carefully enough? Truly not understanding the concept or how it applies in this instance? Do they need additional instruction or can they figure it out without help? Then they get to try the problem again. My feeling with this is just getting the correct answer isn't nearly as important at this stage as genuinely understanding the material and being able to determine why they got a wrong answer when an answer is not correct and why they got an answer correct when the answer is correct. Does that make any sense? Sorry. Tired today. Hopefully someone else will respond with a better answer. Best wishes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Good points! I like the approach with the workbook :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewdropfairy Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 My son says he doesn't get a second chance for problems on quizzes, only assignments. Based on the second chance available, I've always based his progress on quiz scores, not assignments. If there's an assignment he totally bombs I'll have him re-do, but usually he does well there and only bombs on quizzes when he needs more review of the material, so we will go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinmami01 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We've been using TT for 3 years and I find myself coming back to this article often: http://thepioneerwoman.com/homeschooling/2013/03/beware-of-turning-educational-tools-into-crutches/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess4879 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I don't mind the second chance...but...I have DD redo these on paper. First she watches the lesson and does the work on the computer. Then I go through it and make a list of everything she got incorrect and/or needed a second attempt on. The next morning she has to work through these problems again on paper. If there is a common thread of incorrect problems, we will redo that lesson together at the table using the textbook. All her quizes must be done on paper. This is only our first year using TT, so this is just what works for us right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 We've been using TT for 3 years and I find myself coming back to this article often: http://thepioneerwoman.com/homeschooling/2013/03/beware-of-turning-educational-tools-into-crutches/ Thank you! This is helpful. I can see how TT may get poor reviews as sending the kid with the discs without monitoring, could prove to be a big problem down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 I don't mind the second chance...but...I have DD redo these on paper. First she watches the lesson and does the work on the computer. Then I go through it and make a list of everything she got incorrect and/or needed a second attempt on. The next morning she has to work through these problems again on paper. If there is a common thread of incorrect problems, we will redo that lesson together at the table using the textbook. All her quizes must be done on paper. This is only our first year using TT, so this is just what works for us right now. I really like this approach. I think I read about it here before. Waiting the next day would help distance him from frustration and also test if,he really understands the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 The second chance isn't offered for every problem. Also, I believe you can choose not to take the 2nd chance. I do as some of the others have already mentioned...we watch the lecture, do the work in the workbook, transfer the answers into the computer. My biggest suggestion: use the workbook in addition to the computer (don't think the workbook isn't necessary because then they aren't doing math with paper and pencil, which is very important). Also, if you can't or don't want to be there with each lesson, always keep up with checking how it's going. Since he's excited about it, I hope you give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 We don't do the second chance because my kids were making careless mistakes. My kids score 100 percent most of the time now, but when they miss a problem we always go over it together. They also always do the work in their workbook and then enter it into the computer. TT is working great here, and my kids are learning and retaining. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Oh, I forgot! My children can do the quizzes on just the computer as long as they have scratch paper and a pencil handy if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deannajo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I personally like the second chances - as I tell my perfectionist daughter, we don't do lessons/take a class/use a curriculum/etc to test what we know, to get things right, or for a grade.....we do these things to learn. We make mistakes because we are still learning. Mistakes give us an opportunity to tackle the problem, learn from our mistakes, approach the material again, get down in the dirt and wrestle with that equation. If a mistake is made, I like that TT says, "hey there, lets try that again!" - We are using TT (or whatever curriculum) to teach, not to test - so if she misses something, I like that she gets a second chance - to see what she did wrong - to learn. And I like that if she misses it the second time, the software will work through the problem for her. Plus, if she were using a workbook, she could erase and fix mistakes. If I were sitting next to her, I'd see her goofing, and say "hey, lets try this one again" and help her figure it out. So I have three daughters using TT, and the youngest rarely misses anything, the middle one (the perfectionist) will call me in if she misses something the first time, and we work through the second time together and watch them do it on the software. My eldest one doesn't want to involve me at all, so if she misses it, she will work it the second time. If she misses several, even after two tries, I delete her answers from the teacher's gradebook and ask her to redo them a third or fourth time....Until she understands what she's doing - she doesn't learn from me explaining - or really by the lecture part of the lesson, she has to DO. I'm involved with the middle one whenever she misses a problem, and I check up on the youngest and the eldest regularly, and if I see a problem there we have a little talk, and they try again....By the time all three of them get to the quizzes, they get it. And that's all I care about - that by the time they are moving on to the next section, they understand what they've been working on. If they take a quiz and struggle, then we know that we need to work through some stuff before we move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat in MI Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I like having the second chance. It doesn't matter what program we use, my dd would still have to re-work whatever problems she gets wrong. No other way to really learn the material. I sit by dd when she does her lesson, so if she needs to re-do I give her pointers as she is going through. I do always make her listen to the step by step solution for each one she gets wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Thanks to each of you for your responses! I think what is important is to be present and in tune to what they are doing. For my son, he wants to rush through, but ends up making errors due to not paying attention. He did 3 lessons in one day and began to be tired towards the end LOL.L Last night I wrote out (by hand) each problem he didn't get correct on the first try. He re-did those problems and then took the first quiz. He got 100% on the quiz, and also, I could tell by looking through his re-work that he definitely understands. This is major review in the beginning, so I think the key thing is to impress on him to slow down, work dilligently, and do his best. I will continue to stick close as each of you have reiterated. It would be tempting for me to just step away and not get too involved! Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.m Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 We decided to try TT7 with ds after he finished MM5. He did pretty well but could use some more practice so I thought TT7 would be good as he is ready to have a change in format. I like that he will be having spiral practice, and that he will get the audio-visual presentation of the lessons. He could use that right now before we head to pre-Algebra. 1. What I'm not so sure about is the "second chance". It seems too easy to make careless mistakes since he has another try. I'm wondering how the quiz works? I looked at the gradebook and it says "number of attempts". Do they grade by giving the kid a second chance on each problem? I'm not sure I like that because in Math you are either correct or wrong. Rarely in life (and never in tests) do you get another try and figuring it. 2. Is there a good reason for the second chance? How does it work for tests? Is there a way to work around it? I am already going to manually grade his quizzes and give him a percentage based on first tries, but would like to hear if there is something I am missing. I just paid $150 and DS is excited about it, so I am not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe just the bathwater? :) 1. Well, everyone makes mistakes. A second chance during practice gives them an opportunity to correct the error and learn from the mistake. I'm not sure how that can be a downside when trying to master something. My children don't make careless mistakes because of the time it takes to redo the problem or watch the lecture again (as I often make them do if it was clearly a concept mistake). That motivates them to do their best. And there have been a few times that they have a typo when keyboarding the written answer. 2. If you are self grading the quiz, then the program isn't going to offer a second chance. But, yes, the tests give second chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 1. Well, everyone makes mistakes. A second chance during practice gives them an opportunity to correct the error and learn from the mistake. I'm not sure how that can be a downside when trying to master something. My children don't make careless mistakes because of the time it takes to redo the problem or watch the lecture again (as I often make them do if it was clearly a concept mistake). That motivates them to do their best. And there have been a few times that they have a typo when keyboarding the written answer. 2. If you are self grading the quiz, then the program isn't going to offer a second chance. But, yes, the tests give second chances. Your post made me remember that they don't get to try again even if it's a typo. (insert evil grin) lol. But, after the initial frustration of making typos, they almost never (can't even remember the last time) make them anymore. Also, they have been motivated to learn the number pad via a typing program all by their own initiative. My 4th and 5th grade boys do all their math without even looking at the keyboard now and I've never expected or even suggested that. Seriously, they know we all make mistake and all that and really like and have fun with math. I totally respect and think other approaches are just as great, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heritagelearningacademy Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We use TT and I found that I had boys who were rushing and not worried about "attempts". So, I started looking at how they did. Anything that was wrong, or that they had to do 2 attempts for, I go in and delete and they have to redo that problem the next day. if they miss it again, they rewatch the lesson and rework the problem again. After 2 months of this, you would be amazed at how my oldest finally will willingly double check his work before he enters the answer and how much more careful they both are when they enter an answer. It solved our hurry and rush issue, and still allows us to stick with a program that is working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewdropfairy Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We use TT and I found that I had boys who were rushing and not worried about "attempts". So, I started looking at how they did. Anything that was wrong, or that they had to do 2 attempts for, I go in and delete and they have to redo that problem the next day. if they miss it again, they rewatch the lesson and rework the problem again. That's a great idea, especially for my oldest who likes to rush through and isn't as careful as he could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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