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I am planning on having my 9th grader start Spanish next year in a class setting (paid class through our co-op). This would be a once a week class. I spoke with my sister-in-law last week and she was saying that after 8+ years of Spanish she was not fluent. It took about 6 months of immersion in Spain before she felt able to carry on a conversation. This was AFTER getting a minor in Spanish in college!? Really surprised me. I'm due in July with baby number 5 and I'm trying to limit our outside commitments so we can have full school days without interruptions. I do recall the first couple years of foreign language being all about vocab, conjugation, etc. After 4 years of Italian, I didn't feel fluent, but I would have thought someone with a Spanish minor would have been decent with conversation.

So now I'm wondering if the class setting is worth the effort next year. If we don't do the class, we would get the BJU Spanish videos to use at home. 

 

Anyone have an opinion about whether it's worth the time/effort to go to a class for first year Spanish? 

Thanks for any opinions. 

 

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How about doing an online class or tutoring? There are lots of options that include interaction (not just taped classes) online. This isn't going to make your dc fluent, but neither is a once a week coop. If you really can't manage either option, I'd consider Latin.

 

Learning to actually converse in another language takes a lot of practice and automaticity, especially if you're worried about maintaining your personal dignity. You have to have laid the foundations of grammar and vocabulary, but it takes a lot of practice to be able to recall idioms and formulate sentences in real time. Its pretty common that someone doesn't develop fluency until they find that they must speak their target language, even if they speak it badly and feel totally stupid.

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A once a week class is not particularly useful. Foreign language instruction needs to be much more frequent. And yes, it takes many years to develop fluency; four years will not accomplish conversational fluency, unless you have a chance for immersion or receive intensive instruction by a proficient speaker. Four years may be sufficient to read the language reasonably well, but probably not enough for recreational reading.

 

This said: foreign language is IMO the most difficult subject to teach at home. One can accomplish a bit in terms of grammar and vocabulary, but at some point regular interaction with a proficient speaker is necessary for progress. I found it more beneficial to have a once weekly interaction with a fluent instructor once the student had learned some basics; with an absolute beginner, I would feel it a waste of time. We used a once a week tutor for conversation and composition after studying for two years independently; this did not turn out to be sufficient for good progress, and only outsourcing to an actual class got DD over the hump.

 

 

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What does he want to learn the language for? Not that all learning must be goal driven, but if this is truly just box checking for college or graduation, that does make a difference. If after two years of at home study he is interested in pursuing fluency, then outside resources might be necessary, but most of the first two years can be handled at home for someone not wanting to focus much on the language.

 

High school foreign language in the United States is mainly just exposure. That isn't necessarily the correct way to view it, but it is the truth. If this is a situation based on earning credits, then make it easiest for yourself and your household. The outcome will most likely be the same either way.

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Mr. Ray Leven  - He teaches the AP Spanish for PA Homeschoolers and the lower courses on his own.  DS has learned a LOT this year (although the work load isn't light some weeks!).  The once a week Skype is heavily focused on speaking and listening.  Grammar work, vocab, etc, is done throughout the week, both through the online work associated with the textbook, and homework assignments provided by Mr. Leven.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/spanishlearningonline/

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For the cost of the BJU videos you can have 3 hours a week live online with Dale Gamache La Clase Divertida

 

The trouble with looking at your SIL's situation is you don't know what classes she took.  I took two years of Russian in high school, tested into 3rd year at the summer program at Indiana University, and did that summer program twice.  I got some extra credit for a summer abroad and independent study and received a russian minor.  I was functionally fluent.  At the summer program we saw people come in (gov't workers actually) who had never been abroad but who had BEAUTIFUL fluent Russian.  It's absolutely possible to get great in a language in x amount of time.  It just depends on what you're doing in that time.  ;)

 

Many people take a language in high school, learn little, and then go to college and start over to have easy credits.  That's their business, but I'm just saying you don't know, at least from that description, what she actually took.  If she took 4 years in a mediocre high school, that's (if she's lucky) the equivalent of 101, 102, 201, 202 at a university.  That's if she's an A student and nails it and tests out AND chooses to test out rather than just going into 101 at the university.  So if she tests into 3rd year at a university, she's finishing up the grammar of the language and beginning to write compositions and taking conversation classes.  She's implying she did that another 3 years.  That's basically taking 4 years of 300 and 400 level classes in which they would be reading and writing in the original language and doing conversation classes.  Usually as part of that you watch movies, etc.  You're telling me 4 years of that didn't make her  AT ALL functional enough to go somewhere and speak??  I was able to slide into russian without a problem when I got there just with my bizarre background (2 years in high school, 2 years at the summer institute, nothing formal during the school year because I was at a different university).  Granted I was pretty swamped trying to translate a history lecture during a tour, lol, but then I don't know history.  ;)

 

There's always new vocabulary, etc. when you go to a country, yes.  I'm just saying language classes can be a fine way to build proficiency.  They springboard what you're able to do when you actually get into that immersion experience.  

 

I agree I'd rather have 3 hours live in class online or 1-2 hours live via Skype with a native speaker than 1 hour in a co-op.  You're going to have so many issues there with work being done, etc.  You could use the co-op class as bonus conversation and do something else online as you're main.  

 

Your dc is going to get out of it what he puts into it.  It's that simple.  My dd works her butt off for La Clase Divertida and she has a great time doing it.  Motivation is a lot of the battle, and his classes set up a positive dynamic of working hard.  This summer I'm hoping to have her go through half (maybe?) of the Destinos videos.  Then after spanish 2 online she can go through the other half.  Hopefully after that, maybe after spanish 3, we can get her some kind of immersion experience.  I keep looking for opportunities locally, but she's a little scared.  I think there's that balance where they need to know enough to feel ready.  She wants a bit more under her belt, and I think that's fine.  Then for her 4th year I'm hoping she can do spanish via DE.  If she does that, in theory she'll test into a 202 level, because the text she is using for La Clase Divertida is a college text (meaning she has covered the material they're looking for).  So with that she'd go into college testing into 3rd year level classes. That, to me, seems like some pretty good proficiency and coverage even if all she did was minor with it, kwim?  Then if she spent a summer abroad, she'd become fluent.  

 

I have the BJU spanish text and tm I think.  I got them to integrate the scripture memory, christian vocabulary, etc., but I just haven't had a chance.  If you're paying $400 either way, Gamache's class is a better deal.  

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A once a week class is not particularly useful. Foreign language instruction needs to be much more frequent. And yes, it takes many years to develop fluency; four years will not accomplish conversational fluency, unless you have a chance for immersion or receive intensive instruction by a proficient speaker. Four years may be sufficient to read the language reasonably well, but probably not enough for recreational reading.

 

This said: foreign language is IMO the most difficult subject to teach at home. One can accomplish a bit in terms of grammar and vocabulary, but at some point regular interaction with a proficient speaker is necessary for progress. I found it more beneficial to have a once weekly interaction with a fluent instructor once the student had learned some basics; with an absolute beginner, I would feel it a waste of time. We used a once a week tutor for conversation and composition after studying for two years independently; this did not turn out to be sufficient for good progress, and only outsourcing to an actual class got DD over the hump.

 

:iagree:

 

I supplemented our once-a-week classes with tutoring sessions online with 121Spanish. It's a fabulous company. For $15 per hour your child can have one-on-one, real-time tutoring/conversation with a native speaker via Skype. We have worked with them for years and have had a very positive experience. My daughter in particular is totally able to chatter away in Spanish for the full hour of tutoring. She also reads Spanish novels and watches Spanish media with no issue.

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Thank you for all the great feedback and recommendations. OhElizabeth, your thoughts on the quality of the actual classes make perfect sense. I'm guessing high school fr SIL was mediocre but college was top notch.(I won't name since it's not relative). Since her career has been in International Business and she's lived abroad for a good bit of the time, I was just surprised to learn the history behind her Spanish. 

I had not considered that my 3 years of living in Italy taught me conversational Italian quick. When I realized I needed a phrase, I learned it, and didn't forget it. I wouldn't have been able to spell 75% of what I said but that wasn't necessary. And I know it depends on the area, but most folks are very forgiving when you attempt to converse in their native language.  :blushing:

 

I need to chat with Dd about her goals in the language. She was the one that chose Spanish over other languages. I had several years of German and French and really wanted her to go with one of those for my sake  :tongue_smilie: but she wants to do Spanish. I think it's because it is so prevalent in the states. Opportunities abound for using Spanish. No career goals with Foreign language as of now. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback! 

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Thank you for all the great feedback and recommendations. OhElizabeth, your thoughts on the quality of the actual classes make perfect sense. I'm guessing high school fr SIL was mediocre but college was top notch.(I won't name since it's not relative). Since her career has been in International Business and she's lived abroad for a good bit of the time, I was just surprised to learn the history behind her Spanish. 

I had not considered that my 3 years of living in Italy taught me conversational Italian quick. When I realized I needed a phrase, I learned it, and didn't forget it. I wouldn't have been able to spell 75% of what I said but that wasn't necessary. And I know it depends on the area, but most folks are very forgiving when you attempt to converse in their native language.  :blushing:

 

I need to chat with Dd about her goals in the language. She was the one that chose Spanish over other languages. I had several years of German and French and really wanted her to go with one of those for my sake  :tongue_smilie: but she wants to do Spanish. I think it's because it is so prevalent in the states. Opportunities abound for using Spanish. No career goals with Foreign language as of now. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback! 

I agree immersion without much background doesn't necessarily get you good results.  I had a friend in college who had lived in russia for years, but his russian wasn't better than mine was after a summer.  I had studied russian linguistics, advanced grammar, etc., so when I actually got there I was able to springboard MUCH faster.  

 

This is silly, but my only goal with dd was that she actually retain something so it wouldn't turn out to be a waste of our money.   :lol:   Dh struggled with spanish in high school, and dd had struggled with all the languages we tried before this.  She could understand the grammar, but it was really hard to get the vocab to stick.  So the fact that it's STICKING is worth something. 

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Mr. Ray Leven - He teaches the AP Spanish for PA Homeschoolers and the lower courses on his own. DS has learned a LOT this year (although the work load isn't light some weeks!). The once a week Skype is heavily focused on speaking and listening. Grammar work, vocab, etc, is done throughout the week, both through the online work associated with the textbook, and homework assignments provided by Mr. Leven.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/spanishlearningonline/

I'm very tempted to enroll DD in this course, but how is it possible to have enough practice time with the teacher if everyone shares the teacher for that one hour? It's an expensive class for just an hour a week. Is there more to this class that I'm not finding on his website?

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For the cost of the BJU videos you can have 3 hours a week live online with Dale Gamache La Clase Divertida

 

La Clase Divertida and she has a great time doing it. Motivation is a lot of the battle, and his classes set up a positive dynamic of working hard. This summer I'm hoping to have her go through half (maybe?) of the Destinos videos. Then after spanish 2 online she can go through the other half. Hopefully after that, maybe after spanish 3, we can get her some kind of immersion experience. I keep looking for opportunities locally, but she's a little scared. I think there's that balance where they need to know enough to feel ready. She wants a bit more under her belt, and I think that's fine. Then for her 4th year I'm hoping she can do spanish via DE. If she does that, in theory she'll test into a 202 level, because the text she is using for La Clase Divertida is a college text (meaning she has covered the material they're looking for). So with that she'd go into college testing into 3rd year level classes. That, to me, seems like some pretty good proficiency and coverage even if all she did was minor with it, kwim? Then if she spent a summer abroad, she'd become fluent.

 

I have the BJU spanish text and tm I think. I got them to integrate the scripture memory, christian vocabulary, etc., but I just haven't had a chance. If you're paying $400 either way, Gamache's class is a better deal.

I see that Professor Gamache meets with the high school students twice per week for 1.25 hrs each class. Do you feel that your daughter has enough practice time with the teacher during the week? His course seems reasonably priced, but I'm wondering is this enough to reach proficiency.

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re Mr. Leven - I agree, the website is pretty plain.  So, I'll try to elaborate.  :

 

In DS's Spanish 1 class, there are 3 kids.  The Skype is officially Thursday's 8:30-9:30 a.m. (the other mom and I decided upon that time), but Mr. Leven calls at 8:20 and they end around 9:45 or later.  The textbook is Descrubre from Vista Higher Learning.  You purchase not only the book, but their online access code.  DS likes the online portion, as he feels it really helps him work with the vocabulary and grammar.  There are also speaking portions where they record into the computer and Mr. Leven can listen afterwards.  

 

The Skype is non stop, the entire time.  Mostly in Spanish.  He has flash cards, they do drills, he is extremely picky about their pronunciation.  He adds other common vocabulary beyond what is in the book, starting around November.  And there are worksheets - translations and writing sentences (10 sentences using X characteristic, 10 using Y).  The amount of work is NOT minimal.  He also uses the worksheets to gauge mastery of a concept, or if he needs to reteach the grammar concept.  (once you complete it, he sends it back with comments.  Some you are expected to rework, and resend.  A rare few have gone multiple rounds until DS had everything right.  One time his sentences were all equivalent to "I like...."  Mr. Leven sent it back, redo!)

 

DS has a friend in Spanish 1 in a B&M school, and around December he said he felt his knowledge was surpassing his friends.  

 

I'll acknowledge that we received DS's grade last week, and it is an A.  But he worked for that A.  He was attentive, turned in everything on time (and sometimes that was difficult because there was a lot of work a few of the weeks). BUT - the mom I had emailed with last Spring, based on Mr. Leven's recommendation, her son received a B.  The mom said he didn't apply himself until half way through, and then catching up was difficult.  She said he received the grade he deserved, learned his lesson, and was planning on applying himself more in Spanish 2.  

 

Look at the "Spanish 3 instead of OSU" discussion.  Swimmermom and son had a Skype session with Mr. Leven, and she wrote about that discussion.  If your interested, I would email him.  

 

Needless to say, we are continuing on with Spanish 2 next year.   

 

HTH!

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Thanks so much for the details, shadanjem. This is very helpful. I emailed Ray Leven right after I posted here, and he responded quickly. I'm going to ask him some more questions, especially about how much time Dd would have to spend in front of the computer. She will be taking Greek and Latin online classes as well - just hoping to avoid too much time screen time.

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For the cost of the BJU videos you can have 3 hours a week live online with Dale Gamache La Clase Divertida...

 

I emailed Dale Gamache about his HS Spanish class in February, and I received no response, so I followed up with a phone message two weeks later, but still no response.   In March, I sent a letter asking questions about his class, and I included a completed application.  I hoped to receive a phone call or email, but I still have received no response.  I've heard wonderful things about his class which is why I have persisted in  trying to make contact with him by email, by phone, and by letter, but I've given up. 

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:iagree:

 

I supplemented our once-a-week classes with tutoring sessions online with 121Spanish. It's a fabulous company. For $15 per hour your child can have one-on-one, real-time tutoring/conversation with a native speaker via Skype. We have worked with them for years and have had a very positive experience. My daughter in particular is totally able to chatter away in Spanish for the full hour of tutoring. She also reads Spanish novels and watches Spanish media with no issue.

 

Is there a particular teacher you recommend?

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I see that Professor Gamache meets with the high school students twice per week for 1.25 hrs each class. Do you feel that your daughter has enough practice time with the teacher during the week? His course seems reasonably priced, but I'm wondering is this enough to reach proficiency.

 

Gamache makes extremely good use of his time in the class sessions.  He's a regular hs teacher, so he's used to keeping people engaged and actively working.  With the software he uses he can throw up a worksheet which the kids can write on with their mouse.  He can divide them into pairs and then bring them back into the class again.  There's no chat text or anything distracting.  It's just everyone engaged, everyone working.  My dd *enjoys* her class AND is learning a ton.  They're using a standard cc text, so it has online exercises, additional listening labs, etc.  I feel comfortable knowing that it's standardized content and that if she takes a placement test at a college she should do well.  

 

By proficiency do you mean fluency or mastery?  Fluency obviously comes better with immersion.  Mastery reflects what you put into it.  As that Leven story shadanjem shared shows, you get out of it what you put into it.  My dd puts a LOT into it, and the course has enough structure that it holds you accountable.  She enjoys having classmates and finds it stimulating.  They meet outside of class (Skype chats) to work on things together, share Quizlet sets, that kind of thing.  So if you're asking if it's EFFECTIVE, yes if you put in the time it's a highly effective set-up.  He's giving the kids more time than any other major online group class I found online when I was looking.  He encourages them to come early and stay late, so she spends 1 1/2 + hours twice a week.  She also has those extra interactions with other students.  For her, when she does what he requires, it's VERY effective.

 

I emailed Dale Gamache about his HS Spanish class in February, and I received no response, so I followed up with a phone message two weeks later, but still no response.   In March, I sent a letter asking questions about his class, and I included a completed application.  I hoped to receive a phone call or email, but I still have received no response.  I've heard wonderful things about his class which is why I have persisted in  trying to make contact with him by email, by phone, and by letter, but I've given up. 

Maybe he was busy with conventions or your email got lost or something?  That's totally weird.  I bopped him an email and I'll try to mention it tomorrow when we see him at the Cincy convention.  I know that's where he'll be, because dd is working the booth with him for part of the time.  :)

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Thanks so much, Elizabeth, this is such helpful information. I like the fact that it meets twice a week. We have a tutor now, but I think it would be better to have some structure. Gamache's fee is actually on the lower side perhaps. DD attends a Chinese Saturday class (low fees, urban area) that is about the same price as Gamache's class.

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Thanks so much, Elizabeth, this is such helpful information. I like the fact that it meets twice a week. We have a tutor now, but I think it would be better to have some structure. Gamache's fee is actually on the lower side perhaps. DD attends a Chinese Saturday class (low fees, urban area) that is about the same price Gamache's class.

Shh, don't tell him, but he's definitely underpriced for how much time he spends and what he puts into these kids.   :D   I think he does it because he loves it.  He's an energy ball, and he just comes in excited and ready to go.  It gets the kids enthused, and they work harder for him because of it.  And yes, I think the amount of time is important.  I think it would be cool to do the Skype tutoring Harriet Vane is doing, absolutely.  I'm not really sure how well that would work out for my dd though.  This structure, with the textbook, the homework assignments, the structure makes sure that she gets the amount of repetition *she* needs for it to stick.  He knows what it takes to get it to stick for kids, because he's teaching it all day.  And when we were having problems, he was responsive and right there talking it through.  It's a lot of time from him for the price, that's for sure. 

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Maybe he was busy with conventions or your email got lost or something?  That's totally weird.  I bopped him an email and I'll try to mention it tomorrow when we see him at the Cincy convention.  I know that's where he'll be, because dd is working the booth with him for part of the time.   :)

 

I wondered the same thing which is why I tried to reach him three different ways over an extended period of time.  My dd has taken several online classes, and it's always been so easy to communicate with her teachers, so I find it odd that I didn't hear back from Sr. Gamache, so perhaps he is not meant to be her Spanish teacher.    

 

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Is there a particular teacher you recommend?

 

We have worked with several over many years. We typically try to stay with one tutor for a semester or a year. I do like switching periodically because the kids learn so much more from exposure to more than one person's nuances, and more than one region.

 

Usually I look over the bio info for the teachers and narrow down which ones might be a good fit for the kids. Then I talk to the kids and schedule a session with 2 or three different teachers, after which we pick the ones to stick with.

 

DD is fluent in Spanish and 4 years older than ds, so I usually have her at least listen in on Ds' tryout lessons and give me her opinion on the teacher's ability.

 

We have been pleased with almost every teacher we have worked with. I think the hiring and training process is pretty solid with this company.

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  • 1 month later...

dd#3 studied with dale gamache this past year.  she learned SO much.  he is a very, very good teacher.  she will continue next year, and dd#4 will start.

 

fwiw, my experience is that if you follow the system, it works.  ie.  fill in an application form and mail it.  if you deviate from the pattern, then sometimes you reach him, sometimes you don't.  

 

when i have called him on the phone number listed on the la clase divertida site, he has answered most times.  when i have sent email, not so much.  

 

however, if you need instant access, or a 24 hour turn around, he likely isn't your guy.

 

hth,

ann

 

ps.  oh elizabeth, i wonder if our kids were in the same class?  dd was mondays and wednesdays for spanish one.

 

 

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Does anyone have a more "affordable" option they can recommend?  My son just took Spanish I through Currclick.com.  I just found out that the teacher will not be teaching again next year.  I think I paid just over $200 for the entire year!!!  My son loved the class and did very well.  She was from South America and taught conversational, verbs, grammar, etc.  He really wants to do a Spanish II class that is NOT from a textbook only. 

 

T

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