Full Day Kindergarten = More Redshirting?

[JumpyTheFrog]

I was reading the thread about expectations for preschoolers and it occurred to me that maybe the move to full day kindergarten is one reason why so many parents in some areas are redshirting. It's crazy to expect a 4-5 year old child (especially a boy) to sit in a classroom for 7 hours per day. When I did kindergarten, it was for less than three hours, which is a reasonable amount for most kids that age.

[musicianmom]

Yes, I think that's a huge factor. Full-day K has been the standard in my state for 15 years or so, and red-shirting is rampant, even with the cutoff constantly moving earlier every few years (August 15 this year).

[hepatica]

My town just started full day K this year. In the board of ed meetings leading up to the decision they emphasized the need for full day so that the K students would actually have time for recess, art, music and play activities. The half day was so filled with academics that all that normal K stuff was pushed out. Sad, but that's the reality. 

 

The parents were for the move to full day by a huge margin. Best free daycare around!

 

K cutoff here is Jan.1, so the age range in K is crazy. You have kids that are 4 for half the year and kids that are 6 at the start of the year. Redshirting has made for a ridiculous age gap. 

[Megbo]

Our district has full-day kindergarten, but I don't think we have a particularly high incidence of redshirting. It would be interesting to compare our district with the ones around here that still offer half-day. 

 

Full-day kindergarten is being introduced in 2015 where I grew up, and where redshirting doesn't currently exist. I'll definitely be interested to see whether parents start holding their kids with fall birthdays out until they are 5. 

[Arcadia]

The half day was so filled with academics that all that normal K stuff was pushed out. Sad, but that's the reality. 

 

The parents were for the move to full day by a huge margin. Best free daycare around!

 

I agree.

Kindergarten is 5hrs at my school district so I don't know if that is full or half day.  I don't see any redshirting though because of the free daycare factor.  The 5hr day does allow time for PE, Art. Music, Library time and computer lab time which a 3hr day won't allow time for.

 

Maybe redshirting might be more common when parents don't need the free daycare.

[redsquirrel]

How do you know 'so many' parents are redshirting? Do you have any statistics about it, or is it just your own personal experience?

 

Because full time daycare is very expensive and the move to full time kindy is in part an attempt to reduce the time kids spend in full time paid daycare. I am just not so sure that all that many parents can turn their noses up at 'free' full time daycare.

 

In my personal experience most parents can't wait for their kids to get old enough to be enrolled in ps full time.  Full time care for a 4 year old runs my sister more than my monthly mortgage payment, and she isn't even going to one of the more pricy options in town. 1500$ a month is a LOT of money for most people.  Full time kindergarten is difficult to pass up.

 

and around here the kindergarten kids don't spend a full day in a classroom. It looks a whole lot like a full day daycare with a bit of academics thrown in. They have circle time, they have gym time every day, they have at least two recess sessions, they have naptime/quiet time every afternoon, they have arts and free playtime. They aren't sitting at a desk. Most of the academic work is done during circle time and incorporated into art lessons etc.

 

Now, the first graders have a much more academic day and my local teacher friends tell me that it is the first graders who are exhausted by 2pm. They have a much bigger transition.

[Hunter]

I see red-shirting much more in higher income communities than lower income communities.

[Butter]

I see red-shirting much more in higher income communities than lower income communities.

 

This.  There's a lot of redshirting going on where I live.  Adrian was more than a year younger than several kids in his kindergarten class and his birthday is 2 1/2 months before the cutoff.  The elementary school we were zoned for where we used to live was a much lower income (comparatively) area to where we live now and redshirted kids were unusual.  Both places kindergarten is full day.

[Butter]

My nephew was redshirted.  His birthday is just a few days before the cutoff.  But he is a smarty.  He was reading by 3 (mostly taught himself), doing addition and subtraction by 4.  My sister is a stay at home mom and was not planning to go back to work when he got in school so daycare was not an issue.  The basic reason he was redshirted was because they wanted school to be easy for him.  They wanted him to be the head of the pack rather than at the back or even in the middle.  As a result he is pretty bored a lot, but he is indeed one of the smartest in his class.  They often give as "proof" that redshirting him was good because he is a bit immature for his age and chooses to play with kids several months younger.  Of course he's in a class where he is the oldest or nearly so (they live in an area now where redshirting is not very common) so it makes sense that he would act like and play with younger kids.  Those are the kids in his class and who he is with all the time!  So there's another reason.  Because the parents want school to not be a challenge.  I don't know how common that is.

[wapiti]

Just a hunch, but my guess is that increased redshirting is due to overall less-developmentally-appropriate expectations in public schools, possibly including seatwork that is excessive for age, rather than just the length of the school day alone.

 

Except for my oldest, all of my kids have (or will have) attended a full-day public charter Montessori K.  I don't hear of much redshirting; the classroom allows for individually-customized developmentally-appropriate work and lots of movement.  The multi-grade classroom includes preschoolers during the morning hours.  Full-day K has not been a problem even for my late spring b-day boys.

 

A long time ago, I came across actual statistics on redshirting by area, though I can't recall where...

[EmilyGF]

Our school district, with its 7:30 hour academic kindergarten, forbids redshirting. K and first are completely dependent on age. I think this must have been a problem.

 

Emily

[RootAnn]

I live in a rural state. My state recently moved their age cut-off so the kids have to be even older to get into K than they were before. The stated reason for passing it was because the lower income kids were not able to qualify for free preschool if the kid met the cut-off but the parents decided to redshirt. So, they wanted to make sure the lower income kids could continue with (Headstart?) preschool for an additional year. 

 

Boys are redshirted more commonly than girls in my area. I think that is somewhat driven by how HUGE sports are here. There are NO exceptions to the new cut-off in the school district we live in for K. According to the law, it is up to each school district to decide if they will allow exceptions.

 

I found an undated neuroscience blog entry that states that one in 11 children in the US starts K a year after they are eligible.

 

 

[MinivanMom]

I see red-shirting much more in higher income communities than lower income communities.

 

That's not true in my area (affluent, urban, east-coast). Everyone here puts their kids in on time. You should have seen how upset people were a few years back when our cut-off was moved up from Oct 15th to Sept 1st. People acted like the world was ending even though we still have early entry to kindergarten (for 4-yr-olds who meet the IQ and achievement test cut-offs), grade skipping (for any elementary or middle school student who meets achievement test cut-offs), and early high school graduation. It's a status thing here to have your child be young for their grade, because it proves how brilliant they are.

 

Our area may be different than other affluent communities, though. We have a large number of tech and medical type jobs here and my area of the suburbs supposedly has the highest number of PhD's in the US for a non-university town. There are lots of brilliant, highly-educated parents with very bright children. Red-shirting just isn't done here. Occasionally, we have a transplant from another area of the country who chooses to redshirt a boy with a summer birthday, but it's not common.

 

Yes, we have full-day (highly academic) kindergarten.

[Pink and Green Mom]

I red-shirted my May birthday boy (cut off date for half day K was Sept. 30).  My main reason - I preferred he be one of the older kids in the class.  I wanted him to be more mature when he got in to middle school, high school, and college.  I thought that extra year would give him a bit more maturity and make him more apt to be a leader and not a follower.

 

For me (and for many other moms in my "circle") it had nothing to do with elementary school and more to do with their later years.

[Rachel]

Full day kindergarten has been here for many years. There is a lot of red shirting in the private schools and the upper income schools. I know personally a boy who turned 7 in kindergarten. There are a lot of 4 year old kindergartener students in the lower income schools. The districts that still have half day kindergarten do not have as much red shirting, but I'm basing that on what my friends say about their children's classes, not statistics.

 

All day kindergarten is one of the many reasons I initially began investigating homeschooling. The bus comes through our street a little after 6:30 and returns around 3. I could not picture that long of a day for my son.

[shawthorne44]

I find it a sad that the reason given for moving to a full-day was to have time for art/recess/etc.   Isn't that the purpose of Kindergarden?  

 

I roll out of bed and throw some sweats on and walk the dog, then get ready and I am at work at 8 am.  While walking the dog, I feel so sorry for the kids dressed and being walked to the elementary school near me.  That is just too early in the morning for those little kids. I get that some of them are up naturally at the crack of dawn, but still. 

 

[linders]

That's why I redshirted my late July birthday boy. He still took afternoon naps!

[jennynd]

Our district can not afford full day Ker but we do have a Dec 1st cutoff day. We have a lot red shirts

[Chelli]

When I was in Kindergarten back in 1983, we had full day Kindergarten. I didn't know that such a thing as a half day Kindergarten existed until I moved to Texas almost 9 years ago. They had half day Kindy here when we moved. It was the first I'd ever heard of it. That being said, redshirting was still HUGE here in Texas even with a half day Kindergarten, while redshirting was not as common when I was in Kindy in the early '80's. It might be the longer day that causes it in many places, but here in Texas it was all about sports. The boys who were redshirted had the competitive edge because they were bigger.

 

ETA: I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if you could definitely blame redshirting on a longer day. I think it has more to do with a change in relationship between parent and school.

[school17777]

K in our school district is full day.  Since a lot of the kids would be in daycare anyway, those kids are already used to it.  They only spend 15-20 minutes doing one activity anyway before moving onto something else.  They have two recesses, one in the morning, and one in the afternoon.  They also have a rest time. 

 

Still, I don't know how my dd would handle it on a daily basis.  I would never see her, if she was gone all day!  I have older kids and am busy running them around in the afternoon/evening.  I am thankful that our school district has the hybrid program available.  (Although, I would traditional homeschool if they didn't.)

 

 

 

[sewingmama]

I sent my older two kids to Pre-k. It was 3 hours a day 2-3 days a week. I was planning on homeschooling so it was just a fun thing for them.

 

We moved before DS2 was old enough to go. Were we live now they only offer all day Prek....so I didn't send my DS even though I had been planning to.

 

I agree though...if I was planning to send my kids to school I would have probably skipped Pr-k altogether ...I don't agree with full day at that age.

 

However most of the kids we know have been in daycare since they were born so full time K is nothing to them I guess. In fact we have parents complaining that its too short and they have to make daycare arrangements for after school.

 

Poor kids.

[Butter]

K in our school district is full day.  Since a lot of the kids would be in daycare anyway, those kids are already used to it.  They only spend 15-20 minutes doing one activity anyway before moving onto something else.  They have two recesses, one in the morning, and one in the afternoon.  They also have a rest time. 

 

That would have been MUCH better for my son.  Here, no rest time, one 15 minute recess, and one activity (usually sitting in a seat at the table) for much, much, much longer than 15-20 minutes.

 

So I think this thread indicates there are MANY reasons people redshirt.

 

I've often wondered if Outliers (I think it was in that book) contributed to some people's choices in redshirting.  There's a chapter about sports and how it's better to be older.

[Library Momma]

That's not true in my area (affluent, urban, east-coast). Everyone here puts their kids in on time. You should have seen how upset people were a few years back when our cut-off was moved up from Oct 15th to Sept 1st. People acted like the world was ending even though we still have early entry to kindergarten (for 4-yr-olds who meet the IQ and achievement test cut-offs), grade skipping (for any elementary or middle school student who meets achievement test cut-offs), and early high school graduation. It's a status thing here to have your child be young for their grade, because it proves how brilliant they are.

 

Our area may be different than other affluent communities, though. We have a large number of tech and medical type jobs here and my area of the suburbs supposedly has the highest number of PhD's in the US for a non-university town. There are lots of brilliant, highly-educated parents with very bright children. Red-shirting just isn't done here. Occasionally, we have a transplant from another area of the country who chooses to redshirt a boy with a summer birthday, but it's not common.

 

Yes, we have full-day (highly academic) kindergarten.

 

 

It is similar near me as well. Cut off is Dec 31st and kids with fall to Dec birthdays are 4 turning 5 when they start K. 

[...................]

I was reading the thread about expectations for preschoolers and it occurred to me that maybe the move to full day kindergarten is one reason why so many parents in some areas are redshirting. It's crazy to expect a 4-5 year old child (especially a boy) to sit in a classroom for 7 hours per day. When I did kindergarten, it was for less than three hours, which is a reasonable amount for most kids that age.

I have a friend whose husband is attending seminary in North Carolina. Because the public school is in the exact vicinity of the seminary, a lot of them send their kids there, and they have a very big influence in the school.  She said, that the hours of the school day in North Carolina are until 3:45 pm!  And Kindergarten is full day!  SO she is planning to homeschool for Kindergarten only.  Her daughter is very very bright (probably gifted range) so I don't think they will Red Shirt.

 

Can you imagine your 5 year old going to school at 9am and staying there until 3:45?  I said, "Surely they have nap time?" and she said, NO, she has confirmed that there is no nap time.

 

??  I cannot even imagine how these poor kids survive,  or their TEACHERS!

[vonfirmath]

I have a friend whose husband is attending seminary in North Carolina. Because the public school is in the exact vicinity of the seminary, a lot of them send their kids there, and they have a very big influence in the school.  She said, that the hours of the school day in North Carolina are until 3:45 pm!  And Kindergarten is full day!  SO she is planning to homeschool for Kindergarten only.  Her daughter is very very bright (probably gifted range) so I don't think they will Red Shirt.

 

Can you imagine your 5 year old going to school at 9am and staying there until 3:45?  I said, "Surely they have nap time?" and she said, NO, she has confirmed that there is no nap time.

 

??  I cannot even imagine how these poor kids survive,  or their TEACHERS!

 

My 5 year old went to school start at 7:40am and stayed there until 2:40p. They had nap through October and then dropped it.  He LOVED school and did fine on this schedule. No excessive need to sleep on the weekends or anything.

[Reefgazer]

Red-shirting here is rampant, especially among boys, and I also agree with the previous poster that it is more common when parents don't need free daycare. 

 

Full-day Kindergarten played a major role in why we red-shirted our son, along with the fact that Kindergarten is now academic instead of a simple introduction to school life.  I strongly felt that academics that early in a full-on day would be damaging to my kid.  We felt he was young for his age, and that, coupled with a long day of test- driven academics was not going to serve him well.  If the school had not allowed me to red-shirt my son, we would have gone to a private school that was more accommodating instead.

[SKL]

Maybe.  I have heard people say they were homeschooling KG because of the full-day issue, so there could be some redshirting for that reason too.  Though I think a lot of people also welcome the relatively cheap all-day day care.

 

A lot of kids have been in daycare for 9-10 hours a day since they were babies, so it isn't so strange for them.  My kids went to KG in a daycare (their 3rd full-time year at that facility).  They did have naps (which one of my kids still appreciated), and it wasn't all sitting all the time, of course.  For that matter, my kids' 2nd grade class isn't all sitting, either.  So I think many kids can handle the schedule just fine.

 

I do think that pushing down academics to the point where incoming first graders are supposed to read fluently and answer trick math questions is contributing to redshirting.

[SKL]

 So there's another reason.  Because the parents want school to not be a challenge.  I don't know how common that is.

 

This is the commonest reason parents give around here.  It totally goes against my personal philosophy, but that's my business.  ;)

 

[Megbo]

That's not true in my area (affluent, urban, east-coast). Everyone here puts their kids in on time. You should have seen how upset people were a few years back when our cut-off was moved up from Oct 15th to Sept 1st. People acted like the world was ending even though we still have early entry to kindergarten (for 4-yr-olds who meet the IQ and achievement test cut-offs), grade skipping (for any elementary or middle school student who meets achievement test cut-offs), and early high school graduation. It's a status thing here to have your child be young for their grade, because it proves how brilliant they are.

 

Our area may be different than other affluent communities, though. We have a large number of tech and medical type jobs here and my area of the suburbs supposedly has the highest number of PhD's in the US for a non-university town. There are lots of brilliant, highly-educated parents with very bright children. Red-shirting just isn't done here. Occasionally, we have a transplant from another area of the country who chooses to redshirt a boy with a summer birthday, but it's not common.

 

Yes, we have full-day (highly academic) kindergarten.

This is interesting! Where I grew up (east coast of Canada), there is no red-shirting. Very few people there are competitive about academics. University is reasonably priced and admission is based 100% on high school grades, so there's no need to push for IB/AP classes unless the student wants to take them for the challenge. It's a completely different atmosphere than here in the US - there's no push to get ahead, kids just sort of fall where they fall. But, the people who do want to get "ahead" get ahead chronologically. Grade skipping is still fairly common there, and my old high school graduates a handful of 16-year-olds every year. Up until the 1980s, school only went up to 11th grade, so older people still tend to think of 16/17 as the age when students should graduate high school.

[Butter]

Can you imagine your 5 year old going to school at 9am and staying there until 3:45?  I said, "Surely they have nap time?" and she said, NO, she has confirmed that there is no nap time.

 

They do in MD.  I went 9:10-3:40 1st through 5th.  Because of a long bus ride, I got home about 4:30 every day (and was picked up at 8:30).  It's reversed here (high school last instead of first) and so the elementary kids go 7:40-2:40.  No nap in kindergarten.  Some kids get on buses by 7am.

[Lanny]

When DD was very young, she attended a *wonderful* Private brick and mortar school ($$$$) that has two (2) years of Kindergarten. K4 and K5.  In K4, the school day ends at 1130 or 1230 Noon. I can't remember what time it ends,, and their buses leave with the K4 kids, after K4 ends.  One of our neighbors kids in is K4 now and the school bus is here at about 110 P.M.    In K5, the children attend the full school day, which is over at 230 P.M. (times are approximately because this is some years ago).   I too believe that a full day for a K4 student would be a very long day for them and that they would not enjoy it.   

 

ETA: The school day there begins at 730 A.M.

[Butter]

The times in the previous posts are for regular kindergarten which a lot of places call K5.  That's where public school full day starts in most places.  K4 would be preschool here.

[MinivanMom]

They do in MD.  I went 9:10-3:40 1st through 5th.  Because of a long bus ride, I got home about 4:30 every day (and was picked up at 8:30).  It's reversed here (high school last instead of first) and so the elementary kids go 7:40-2:40.  No nap in kindergarten.  Some kids get on buses by 7am.

 

Our schools are 9-3:40. When my oldest was a preschooler, I toured several of the gifted magnets in the city, but I was floored when I saw the bus schedule. My kindergartner would have been picked up at 7:10 am and dropped off at 4:50 pm. The principal at one of the schools told us during the tour that they try really, really hard to be sure all the kids are home by 5:00, but they just couldn't guarantee it for the first month of school while they are working out the kinks in the bus routes (try drop-offs between 5:30 and 7 pm). For kindergartners!

[Carrie75]

We red shirted our August boy even though K here is half day. It's not that I didn't want school to be a challenge I just preferred it be less of a struggle for him academically, socially and yes, even athletically.

 

[Reefgazer]

Red shirting is common here, but it's by income level. The red-shirters tend to be the professionals in town, who keep their children in preschool a year longer. The right-on-timers tend to be the immigrants. All that makes for nightmare classes--the kids who come in with a good grasp of the English language, having been read to and having seen a lot of the world are a full year older than the ESL students. It makes for HUGE disparity in ability and maturity. The response has been to start a private school. Though VERY affordable by private school measures, there are no immigrant children there. And now the next problem has hit--it stops at 8th grade. There are no other options but ps or to hs. One of the teachers at the private school last night confided that she'll probably be hsing in a year. She has a highly gifted child and no one has a good spot for him.

I think the ceaseless drive to push academics into lower and lower grades is going to prove to be one of the major factors in widening the gap between the haves and have-nots.  The haves will walk out the public school door if they cannot find a public school to accommodate their kids on their own timetable (a timetable that is more developmentally appropriate for young children).

 

[Mswin15]

I've never even heard of half day Kindergarten. Even the church preschools that offer 5K are full day programs here (in SC). We have a September 1st cut off for public and private schools. We live in an affluent area and red shirting is rampant. My oldest is in a classical university model school and a high percentage of the kids there are red shirted (I fail to see the logic in holding kids back, putting them in a grade a year behind, giving them "advanced" work and calling it rigorous). The youngest child in her class has a birthday in January. 

 

My 2nd child is in public kindergarten - same hours as the rest of the school 8-2:30. No nap. One recess at the end of the day. The age range in is class is 18 months!  The oldest turned 7 in January (so he 6 1/2 when he started) and the youngest started the year at 4 years old in August and turned 5 on September 1st. Several of the summer birthday kids were "lapped" by red shirts. His class of 24 kids has 7 redshirts. Not just summer birthdays - January, March, April, several Mays. I can't imagine as a teacher having a class with that big of an age range. Many of the parents of younger kids feel like they have to hold their kids back because so many of the spring birthdays are now held back. Who wants their daughter in a class with boys 18 months older in middle school and high school?

 

I also have a child at a private 4K (he goes 3 mornings a week but all the other kids in his class go 5 days). The teacher recommends many of the children are held back. She scares the heck out of the parents of these kids about Kindergarten. They don't want their kids to fail or have a bad experience that will scar them for their academic life so they send them to private church preschool 5K then on to public school for another year of Kindergarten. That is what most people do around here - two years of Kindergarten at two different schools. 

 

We also have a county wide gifted school based on test scores in 2nd grade. These are grade norm so the younger kids are at a huge disadvantage for entry to this competitive school

 

I think it is out of control. Most of the parents talk about wanting their child to be confident and not being small compared to other kids. Sports play a big role too. I hear about not wanting them to be last to drive etc. My nephews were both held back (summer birthdays). My sister in law said she loved how when my nephew went to Kindergarten (for the 2nd time) he knew everything and was so confident. They bragged that he was one of two kids in his class that could read well. She loved that he didn't have to try very hard that second time around and he could enjoy himself without having to worry about learning much. 

 

I don't get it. My youngest son has an early May birthday and I get asked all.the.time. if I am holding him back. No way! He's a bright kid! He won't be reading as well as my other son (Oct. birthday) but he will be on his own trajectory. And that is OK. All of the research I've read says the advantage peeters out by 3rd grade then they are just older and more likely to be bored when they are 19 in high school and living at home. 

 

If my kids take a gap year it is going to be when they are 18. Not 5. 

 

 

[Reefgazer]

I've never even heard of half day Kindergarten. Even the church preschools that offer 5K are full day programs here (in SC). We have a September 1st cut off for public and private schools. We live in an affluent area and red shirting is rampant. My oldest is in a classical university model school and a high percentage of the kids there are red shirted (I fail to see the logic in holding kids back, putting them in a grade a year behind, giving them "advanced" work and calling it rigorous). The youngest child in her class has a birthday in January. 

 

My 2nd child is in public kindergarten - same hours as the rest of the school 8-2:30. No nap. One recess at the end of the day. The age range in is class is 18 months!  The oldest turned 7 in January (so he 6 1/2 when he started) and the youngest started the year at 4 years old in August and turned 5 on September 1st. Several of the summer birthday kids were "lapped" by red shirts. His class of 24 kids has 7 redshirts. Not just summer birthdays - January, March, April, several Mays. I can't imagine as a teacher having a class with that big of an age range. Many of the parents of younger kids feel like they have to hold their kids back because so many of the spring birthdays are now held back. Who wants their daughter in a class with boys 18 months older in middle school and high school?

 

I also have a child at a private 4K (he goes 3 mornings a week but all the other kids in his class go 5 days). The teacher recommends many of the children are held back. She scares the heck out of the parents of these kids about Kindergarten. They don't want their kids to fail or have a bad experience that will scar them for their academic life so they send them to private church preschool 5K then on to public school for another year of Kindergarten. That is what most people do around here - two years of Kindergarten at two different schools. 

 

We also have a county wide gifted school based on test scores in 2nd grade. These are grade norm so the younger kids are at a huge disadvantage for entry to this competitive school

 

I think it is out of control. Most of the parents talk about wanting their child to be confident and not being small compared to other kids. Sports play a big role too. I hear about not wanting them to be last to drive etc. My nephews were both held back (summer birthdays). My sister in law said she loved how when my nephew went to Kindergarten (for the 2nd time) he knew everything and was so confident. They bragged that he was one of two kids in his class that could read well. She loved that he didn't have to try very hard that second time around and he could enjoy himself without having to worry about learning much. 

 

I don't get it. My youngest son has an early May birthday and I get asked all.the.time. if I am holding him back. No way! He's a bright kid! He won't be reading as well as my other son (Oct. birthday) but he will be on his own trajectory. And that is OK. All of the research I've read says the advantage peeters out by 3rd grade then they are just older and more likely to be bored when they are 19 in high school and living at home. 

 

If my kids take a gap year it is going to be when they are 18. Not 5. 

 

For many, myself included, this is a parent response to curricula we feel is way too age-inappropriate for an elementary student.  I don't see the trend of res-shirting stopping until public schools stop pushing over-the-top academics into younger and younger grades.  Parents know ridiculous when they see it, and they are reacting in their child's best interests.

 

[Kerileanne99]

In our area there are NO 1/2 Kindy programs...in fact, I have spent literally weeks trying to find a fun pre-K placement for next year for my December bday 4 yr old. Guess what?

They are ALL full day (or at least 8:15- 2:30) because they are trying to get the kids ready for being in all-day Kindy the following year! There are a few that are 3 day/week programs, but all have extended hours now.

And I do see why they have chosen to do it, on some level. Part of it is that they don't want the kids suddenly thrown into all-day school, and part of it is that it is what the parents want.

 

For us, it is a little different. My dd is very accelerated in several areas, enough that I am not worried about academics at all. I just want a place for her to play a bit, do some messy art, an do those kid activities that are more fun in a group setting. I would even consider sending her to Kindy, even though we will be homeschooling out of necessity long term, just for that play time...but not all day! 1) she couldn't handle it 2) I would lose our 'school time' that is actually work on her level, that she wants to do.

 

I finally just signed a contract for dd''s official preK year at a private Montessori school that has 1/2 days for preK. I have to actually PAY for full time, but she will only go part time! Shocking, but the local coops won't let her in as an only under official school age, an she is incredibly social.

Unfortunately, their Kindy is also full day, so home she will be...

[kiwik]

My nephew was redshirted. His birthday is just a few days before the cutoff. But he is a smarty. He was reading by 3 (mostly taught himself), doing addition and subtraction by 4. My sister is a stay at home mom and was not planning to go back to work when he got in school so daycare was not an issue. The basic reason he was redshirted was because they wanted school to be easy for him. They wanted him to be the head of the pack rather than at the back or even in the middle. As a result he is pretty bored a lot, but he is indeed one of the smartest in his class. They often give as "proof" that redshirting him was good because he is a bit immature for his age and chooses to play with kids several months younger. Of course he's in a class where he is the oldest or nearly so (they live in an area now where redshirting is not very common) so it makes sense that he would act like and play with younger kids. Those are the kids in his class and who he is with all the time! So there's another reason. Because the parents want school to not be a challenge. I don't know how common that is.

When he hits his teens and finds challenge in undesirable and illegal ways they may regret that decision. Or when he panics and quits the first time something is hard.

 

Our schools are 9 to 3 with 1 hour for lunch and 20 mins for morning break. I vaguely remember a 5 minute rest time after lunch in 1974 when I was at school but I'm pretty sure there haven't been any for about 30 years. It is pretty unusual for kids to nap past 3 here anyway (judging by the day are centre my youngest attends which has a dedicated sleep room and lets kids keep napping as long as they need it). My oldest was the exception and still napped occasionally at 4.We start school on out 5th birthday or the day after and most kids can read fluently within 12 to 18 months. As far as I can recall it has always been like that. The academic expectations don't seem to have changed much to me.

[ksr5377]

I see red-shirting much more in higher income communities than lower income communities.

 

I completely agree with this.  The best and wealthiest school district in our area is actually the only one around to NOT have full-day K yet.  There was an article about it last fall and the school districts position was that they expense would not be justified.  Their students were testing just fine, there was no reason to increase their time in the classroom.   In contrast the urban and very poorly testing school district has started free, all day pre-school at some elementary schools.  Those schools tend to be the ones with the lowest test scores in the district. 

[SKL]

My kids' current private school offers both full-day and half-day KG.  I am not sure whether there is any pressure on the half-day KG kids to take a second year of (full-day) KG before 1st grade.  I know a lot of parents talk about doing this.

 

In my kids' 2nd grade class, a third of the kids would be in 3rd grade if they started at the official time.  Some of these kids are very bright.

 

I know this is unpopular to say, but as a PP said, I don't get parents who hold their kids back and then brag that they are exceptional students, or whine that the school isn't doing enough to keep them challenged.  It's hard enough for a school/teacher to accommodate diverse kids within a one-year age span.  Honestly, I think it should be no easier/harder to hold kids back than to accelerate kids into a higher grade.

[shawthorne44]

Just theoretically, I wonder how the public schools would feel about a K student that was picked up every day after lunch?  I know in Texas, if the child is present at a certain time mid-morning, then the school gets money for the kid for the day.  So, the school would still get their full money.  Of course, they don't usually like the cattle to step away from the herd, so maybe they would still have a problem with it.  

[DesertBlossom]

Our neighborhood school only has a full day kindergarten. However, there are several "back to basic" schools that are also part of the public school district that offer half-day. That was part of the reason we put our kids there. Next year (2015) my 3 year old (turning 4 in July) will be preparing for kindergarten. If we didn't have a half-day option, I would absolutely red-shirt him. He's small for his age and I don't feel like he would be ready at all for a full day of school. That being said, I am hoping to have all my ducks in a row and I will probably home school him anyway.

[Terabith]

I'm sending my daughter to school next year after homeschooling her whole life, and I guess I'm "redshirting" her.  She turns 9 on April 27, but she has a collection of learning disabilities, severe anxiety, and possibly mild autism, along with being highly gifted.  Socially/ emotionally/ developmentally and academically she's about 2 years behind her age.  Even being one grade behind is going to be a stretch and a challenge. 

 

I think most reasons for red shirting have to do with the inappropriate academic and behavioral expectations of very young children.  Limited play time/ movement/ nap time, lots of emphasis on test taking and paper and pencil work.   The expectations of five and six year olds are ridiculously high, but then they sort of stagnate and by middle school are low. 

[LibraryLover]

All of Finland red-shirts.  No harm, no foul. ;)

[SKL]

I am now feeling curious as to the range of age-appropriateness in today's KG and primary school classrooms.  If the structure of the class is age-appropriate, then it seems the length of day would not be an issue for most kids.

 

So far my kids' schools have not over-done the "sit quietly and do as told" stuff in my opinion.  Their KG had a table with chairs around it, where they did papers and stuff, but they also had morning circle where they talked about the calendar and what kind of day it was, reading circle, "stations" where they got to play with all sorts of manipulatives, "silent reading time," nap time, lunch, snack, multiple recess times, freedom to use the bathroom whenever they wanted, windows they could look out, computer time (individually playing with educational games), optional sports pull-outs five days per week, and optional music pull-out.  They went to the library (off site) once a week and had other field trips.  Fast forward to 2nd grade and they still have a lot of free time and movement in my opinion.

 

So what is it like in other schools that makes the "full day" so scary to parents?

[bolt.]

Does anyone know how there came to be a special name for choosing the 2nd available school year for a child to start? And why is it being seen negatively (as something that is 'rampant' etc.)?

 

I thought that K was available to start in either of two years simply because some students are ready sooner than others, and parents know more than birthdates do.

 

If there was only one right/best year to start why aren't the cut-offs set up that way?

[LibraryLover]

I am now feeling curious as to the range of age-appropriateness in today's KG and primary school classrooms.  If the structure of the class is age-appropriate, then it seems the length of day would not be an issue for most kids.

 

So far my kids' schools have not over-done the "sit quietly and do as told" stuff in my opinion.  Their KG had a table with chairs around it, where they did papers and stuff, but they also had morning circle where they talked about the calendar and what kind of day it was, reading circle, "stations" where they got to play with all sorts of manipulatives, "silent reading time," nap time, lunch, snack, multiple recess times, freedom to use the bathroom whenever they wanted, windows they could look out, computer time (individually playing with educational games), optional sports pull-outs five days per week, and optional music pull-out.  They went to the library (off site) once a week and had other field trips.  Fast forward to 2nd grade and they still have a lot of free time and movement in my opinion.

 

So what is it like in other schools that makes the "full day" so scary to parents?

 

I don't  think it's fear as much as it is pity. All the 'poor babies' stuff must seem rather annoying to the afterschoolers who work full time, and use the 'free day care' of K. A lot of people won't believe/don't want to believe that your children might be happy and doing well.

[LibraryLover]

Ages 4-6 in K used to be pretty common. Montessori K typically has such a range. The age range isn't the problem, wrong expectations of some classrooms is the problem.

[Butter]

So what is it like in other schools that makes the "full day" so scary to parents?

 

Not scary, but definitely developmentally inappropriate for 5 year olds the way my son's kindergarten day went.  There was a whole lot of sitting.  Tiny little classroom.

 

The day went like this:

30 minutes - unpack, announcements, free play (though there wasn't much to play with - generally that meant playing with blocks or looking at books while sitting in their chairs at the tables - school starts officially 10 minutes into that 30 minute time period)

30 minutes - morning work - this is sitting in chairs at the tables doing worksheets

50 minutes - varied what they did, but it usually involved rotating centers of math and language arts as well as calendar time - they got to be up and down during this and using computers and iPads

50 minutes - specials (PE 30 minutes daily and then rotating 20 minutes of music and art)

50 minutes - math (this is almost always all sitting in their chairs at their tables)

30 minutes - lunch

30 minutes - writing (sitting in chairs at their tables)

30 minutes - reading (rotating through read to self, read to someone, listen to reading - again, sitting in chairs at tables with some movement to get books/sit with different people for read to someone/listen to reading)

30 minutes - reading phonics/word work (sitting in chairs at their tables)

15 minutes - recess (of course by this time about 3/4 of the days my son had gotten to red on the behavior chart so he had to sit on the curb watching the other children play)

1 hour - social studies or science (rotating; mostly in chairs at tables, some movement depending on what they were doing) - at the beginning of the year this hour was Choice Time where the kids could choose from centers, computers, iPads, books, etc. for free play (unfortunately, since my son was usually on red for behavior he lost his Choice Time most days and had to sit on the floor by the teacher's desk silently looking at books he could not read... for the entire hour)

25 minutes - clean-up, pack-up, dismissal

 

That's a heck of a lot of sitting to do work for kindergarteners!  Honestly, my second grader was moving around the classroom more than my kindergartener was.