Hunter Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is it legal for an author and self publisher to keep updating a book with each printing, but not change the ISBN # or to label each update with a new edition? I have dealt with at least 3 curricula that have done this and it is VERY frustrating. Online we think we are all talking about the same book, but we are not. Sometimes It's impossible to buy used books and have the series flow nicely. Cathy Duffy and other reviews are for one version and I have no idea which one or even how many versions there are. Sometimes even the samples at CBD and Rainbow don't match what I'm buying new. LLATL just says don't buy used and make sure you buy the newest edition from us. Nice, huh? I received a used copy of LLATL Gold yesterday. It's a 2000 printing. I had no idea what I was getting. I'd like to buy the Gold British book, but who knows what I'll get, and what the differences are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 And now I can't find the LLATL page with the chart that says to use at least ... copyright date for each level. Ugh! Not that it really matters I guess, since the ISBN #s are all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Per the isbn "rules", a new edition is supposed to have a new isbn. It didnt seem that there was any "isbn police" to enforce it - not pissing off your customers was the main rationale given. It sounds very frustrating :grouphug:. I read that you can buy isbn numbers in lots of 10, 100, and 1,000 - I wonder how much a lot costs - how much are they saving, exactly? Eta: looked it up. You *really* save by buying in bulk. You can get a single isbn for $125, 10 for $295, 100 for $575, and 1000 for $1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Per the isbn "rules", a new edition is supposed to have a new isbn. It didnt seem that there was any "isbn police" to enforce it - not pissing off your customers was the main rationale given. It sounds very frustrating :grouphug:. I read that you can buy isbn numbers in lots of 10, 100, and 1,000 - I wonder how much a lot costs - how much are they saving, exactly? Eta: looked it up. You *really* save by buying in bulk. You can get a single isbn for $125, 10 for $295, 100 for $575, and 1000 for $1000. Thank you so much for this information. I guess I understand the temptation, but I really really really do not like this recycling ISBN #s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Depends on how significant the changes are. Minor edits, no, but most publishers will put an "edition number" on the copyright page, showing that it has been reprinted, which can mean that minor edits were made. Substantial changes, yes, a new ISBN number is needed. From the ISBN FAQ: If I make a change to my book, do I need to assign a new ISBN? A new ISBN is not required for minor changes such as revising typographical errors and minor edits. A change in prices does not warrant a new ISBN but the Bookland EAN barcode on the back cover might need replacing if the price is encoded within the barcode. Here's another page with info (sounds like LLATL's changes fit the description of new edition from your expectations!): What's the difference between a reprint and a new edition?A reprint means more copies are being printed with no substantial changes. Perhaps a few typos are being fixed. A new edition means that there has been substantial change: content has been altered in a way that might make a customer complain that this was not the product that was expected. Or, text has been changed to add a new feature, such as a preface or appendix or additional content. Or, content has been revised. Or, the book has been redesigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 LLATL just says don't buy used and make sure you buy the newest edition from us. Nice, huh? I received a used copy of LLATL Gold yesterday. It's a 2000 printing. I had no idea what I was getting. I'd like to buy the Gold British book, but who knows what I'll get, and what the differences are. I'm looking at using LLATL Gold British Lit next year too! My understanding from Rainbow is that it's consumable though...I hadn't even thought to look used for it because of that. 2000? Wow, that's old! I got burned on "edition number" of a book once, and always ask for the copyright date now! It's frustrating to think you're getting one thing and to get something very different in its place. Too bad the seller didn't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thank you for this information. I don't expect a seller to do more than send the correct ISBN#. I've always understood that an ISBN# meant just one copyright date, and I think most sellers think the same thing. If saw a different date, I'd think it was just a reprint, but not a new edition. I can't find the LLATL page. I wonder if it was taken down. But it said they reprint the books every year or two with changes. And it listed dates for each book that were the oldest considered still usable. Then it said you really need to just buy new from them. If a book is considered so different that it isn't considered usable by the author, they owe the public a new ISBN#. The gold high school books are non consumable and do not come with a separate student and teacher manual. The lower levels come with separate student and teacher manuals, and I think some families do not have students write in the student book. I guess it's impossible to buy used teacher and student books separately, as they are unlikely to match. LLATL is not the only author/publisher doing this. I'm just using them as an example because I have no personal relationship with them, they are big enough not to really care what little old me is saying, and because I really want to use this series right now but am not sure I want to adopt a series that does this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Last year, I was contemplating writing a non fiction book, having been encouraged to do so. When I looked into ISBN numbers at that time, I seem to recall that one can make minor corrections, updates, etc., but if there are major changes, then a new ISBN number is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's WRITING STRANDS that has this chart. I'm SO sorry if I confused anyone. http://www.writing-strands.com/faq.asp#books5 Now I'm confused what I have mixed up between LLATL and WS. :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've encountered instances when a publisher reused an ISBN on a completely different book. With the result that two different books (different titles/content, not just editions) have the same ISBN. I know that in some industries, companies have to pay a fee to stores for each UPC that is carried. This sometimes leads to reusing UPCs (which shouldn't happen). Maybe some places charge the publisher when there is a new ISBN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've encountered instances when a publisher reused an ISBN on a completely different book. With the result that two different books (different titles/content, not just editions) have the same ISBN. I know that in some industries, companies have to pay a fee to stores for each UPC that is carried. This sometimes leads to reusing UPCs (which shouldn't happen). Maybe some places charge the publisher when there is a new ISBN? I wonder if independent publishers just don't think about it. You have to use a different number for each type of book too--Kindle version versus another type of PDF versus print (hardback and paperback)...you really can use up a lot of numbers on "one" book, LOL! Publishers definitely should NOT be reusing ISBN numbers on different books. That's ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The gold high school books are non consumable and do not come with a separate student and teacher manual. The lower levels come with separate student and teacher manuals, and I think some families do not have students write in the student book. I guess it's impossible to buy used teacher and student books separately, as they are unlikely to match. Interesting. I just emailed Rainbow last month to ask specifically about LLATL Gold British Lit. last month, because I'll have 2 using it. Their consultant said, "It would be nice for them each to have a book to write in, however; if they each write on their own paper, you could make 1 book work for you. " Maybe she meant notes/highlighting or something? I took it to mean "consumable." But I haven't used it before. Maybe she didn't double check and assumed it's like the younger levels?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Hunter, on 21 Apr 2014 - 07:44 AM, said: The gold high school books are non consumable Interesting. I just emailed Rainbow last month to ask specifically about LLATL Gold British Lit. last month, because I'll have 2 using it. Their consultant said, "It would be nice for them each to have a book to write in, however; if they each write on their own paper, you could make 1 book work for you. " Maybe she meant notes/highlighting or something? I took it to mean "consumable." But I haven't used it before. Maybe she didn't double check and assumed it's like the younger levels?! Well hot dog, I think you saved me $20! Just read Cathy Duffy's review & she says non-consumable too. Cool! BTW, I noticed on CD's review that it says "3rd edition" on the outside of the book--it was pretty easy to see even on a thumbnail pic, so that might be another way to check when buying used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm realizing I got some of LLATL mixed up with Writing Strands, because they are both brand new to me. I think there is a new ISBN# for the new 3rd editions LLATL. I don't think there are any used copies of this edition for sale yet. Writing Strands is a whole other issue, though. Sigh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 LLATL Gold is quite different from the earlier levels. Gold is written by a different author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 LLATL Gold is quite different from the earlier levels. Gold is written by a different author. I didn't know that. I haven't used LLATL before (though I thought about it several times!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I didn't know that. I haven't used LLATL before (though I thought about it several times!) I have seen LLATL and Writing Strands in catalogs since the 1990's and it's too funny that I am just trying them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.