NCAA not accepting K12 courses

[plansrme]

Has this been discussed?  The NCAA apparently is no longer accepting courses from a  number of cyber academies run by K12.  I personally know families who will be affected by this, so I imagine it is going to be quite a blow generally.  I know it isn't popular on here, but there are plenty of homeschooling families using their services.

 

 

 

 

[NCMom]

Has this been discussed?  The NCAA apparently is no longer accepting courses from a  number of cyber academies run by K12.  I personally know families who will be affected by this, so I imagine it is going to be quite a blow generally.  I know it isn't popular on here, but there are plenty of homeschooling families using their services.

 

Not surprised.  I know two hs'ers who are struggling with the fact that NCAA will not accept their online classes AND the fact that because their online schools have no brick and mortar and no actual "teaching" component, NCAA is not likely to ever approve these courses.

 

One poor gal is being recruited (as a Jr) to her dream school, a SEC school, no less, but she has some serious backtracking to do.

 

Georgia

[Ellie]

Has this been discussed?  The NCAA apparently is no longer accepting courses from a  number of cyber academies run by K12.  I personally know families who will be affected by this, so I imagine it is going to be quite a blow generally.  I know it isn't popular on here, but there are plenty of homeschooling families using their services.

 

Interesting, because in most cases (and in *all* cases in California) cyber academies are public charter schools that just happen to use K12 (IOW, they are not cyber academies run by K12; K12 is just the curriculum, and people are not using their services). I wonder if the charter schools will try to fight this in any way.

[plansrme]

Interesting, because in most cases (and in *all* cases in California) cyber academies are public charter schools that just happen to use K12 (IOW, they are not cyber academies run by K12; K12 is just the curriculum, and people are not using their services). I wonder if the charter schools will try to fight this in any way.

 

This is exactly what is surprising to me--these kids are, for all (well, almost all) intents and purposes, enrolled in accredited public high schools, and the NCAA is snubbing them. This is different from the usual "will the NCAA accept LLOTR for high school credit" that comes up on here regularly.  I have not verified this with the NCAA's website, of course, but the report sounds legit.  

[snowbeltmom]

This is exactly what is surprising to me--these kids are, for all (well, almost all) intents and purposes, enrolled in accredited public high schools, and the NCAA is snubbing them. This is different from the usual "will the NCAA accept LLOTR for high school credit" that comes up on here regularly.  I have not verified this with the NCAA's website, of course, but the report sounds legit.  

 

Wow.  :iagree:

 

The virtual academy in Ohio on the list is accredited by the State and the students graduate with an Ohio diploma just like those in a brick and mortar school.   I would have thought the NCAA would have been too busy protecting its income stream fighting the ruling that gave the football players for Northwestern the right to unionize  to be taking on K-12 as well.

[Caroline]

This is exactly what is surprising to me--these kids are, for all (well, almost all) intents and purposes, enrolled in accredited public high schools, and the NCAA is snubbing them. This is different from the usual "will the NCAA accept LLOTR for high school credit" that comes up on here regularly. I have not verified this with the NCAA's website, of course, but the report sounds legit.

I teach at a public high school. We have courses that aren't accepted by the NCAA. We make sure our athletes (even those who are being recruited for sports they don't participate in at school--swimming, gymnastics, etc.) have enough NCAA approved credits. But yes, the NCAA does not just give a stamp of approval because the coursework comes from an accredited high school.

[maize]

Where do I find NCAA rules regarding course requirements? No serious athletes around here yet, but I have one or two kids who may head that direction.This sounds like something that needs to be on my radar (not K12 specifically, but eligibility rules in general and homeschool/online classes especially).

[plansrme]

I teach at a public high school. We have courses that aren't accepted by the NCAA. We make sure our athletes (even those who are being recruited for sports they don't participate in at school--swimming, gymnastics, etc.) have enough NCAA approved credits. But yes, the NCAA does not just give a stamp of approval because the coursework comes from an accredited high school.

But to reject a school's ENTIRE course offering? That is bizarre to me. How could every single K12 course be worse than the grade-level offerings at a poorly-performing public HS that regularly churns out football and basketball players? Seriously, if it is accredited, I think the NCAA needs to accept the credits. Accrediting agencies are slightly more qualified to make these determinations (only slightly, though!).

[snowbeltmom]

Where do I find NCAA rules regarding course requirements? No serious athletes around here yet, but I have one or two kids who may head that direction.This sounds like something that needs to be on my radar (not K12 specifically, but eligibility rules in general and homeschool/online classes especially).

You can find the rules on the NCAA website.  As long as you list yourself as" the teacher of record" on the homeschooling worksheets when your child takes an online class, you should be fine.  You will also need to submit proof to the NCAA that you were in compliance with your state's homeschooling laws throughout the high school years.  (I am planning on sending in my excusal letters that I receive at the beginning of every school year.)

 

[Lolly]

What bothers me is that they can just suddenly decide not to accept the classes. It is too late to go back and redo for these kids. I don't think they should be allowed to take a junior who has these classes as a freshman or sophomore and suddenly decide they can't use them. Do they expect these poor kids to go back and totally redo those two years of school? It is just wrong.

[snowbeltmom]

What bothers me is that they can just suddenly decide not to accept the classes. It is too late to go back and redo for these kids. I don't think they should be allowed to take a junior who has these classes as a freshman or sophomore and suddenly decide they can't use them. Do they expect these poor kids to go back and totally redo those two years of school? It is just wrong.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't understand how the NCAA has the power to refuse coursework completed by an online provider when at the time the work was completed, the online provider had the NCAA stamp of approval.  Here is an excerpt from the article Plansrme posted:

 

"As a result, the NCAA will stop accepting coursework from these schools starting with the 2014–15 school year. Coursework completed from Spring 2013 through Spring 2014 will undergo additional evaluation on a case-by-case basis when a prospect tries to use it for initial eligibility purposes. Coursework completed in Fall 2012 or earlier may be used without additional evaluation."

 

[Ellie]

This is exactly what is surprising to me--these kids are, for all (well, almost all) intents and purposes, enrolled in accredited public high schools, and the NCAA is snubbing them. This is different from the usual "will the NCAA accept LLOTR for high school credit" that comes up on here regularly.  I have not verified this with the NCAA's website, of course, but the report sounds legit.  

 

Wait...just because they are public schools does not mean they are accredited, at least not in California...

[In The Great White North]

 

 

What bothers me is that they can just suddenly decide not to accept the classes. It is too late to go back and redo for these kids. I don't think they should be allowed to take a junior who has these classes as a freshman or sophomore and suddenly decide they can't use them. Do they expect these poor kids to go back and totally redo those two years of school? It is just wrong.

 

 

It is just wrong that the NCAA should have any say in the matter at all.

[Crimson Wife]

San Francisco Flex Academy and Silicon Valley Flex Academy are on the list, and those *ARE* brick-and-mortar schools that students attend 5 days per week, 6-7 hours per day (not 100% sure of the schedule). They just happen to use the K12 curriculum.

 

Even if the NCAA has questions about whether students enrolled in online schools are actually doing the credited work themselves, it makes NO sense to include the B&M schools.

[Χά�ων]

Wait...just because they are public schools does not mean they are accredited, at least not in California...

This. And not just in California

[Crimson Wife]

I just checked, and San Francisco Flex Academy is fully accredited by WASC (the same folks who accredit our zoned high school): http://www.k12.com/sfflex/sfflex/who-we-are/accreditation#.U1Q4KlfN4TA

 

A bunch of their courses are approved by the state to meet the U.C. a-g admissions requirements and several are approved by the College Board as official AP courses.

 

So they're good enough for the accrediting commission, the state, and the College Board but not good enough for NCAA? That makes no sense to me.

[Lolly]

I hope someone sues the NCAA over their silly nonsense. I don't like lawsuits as a general rule, but this organization is just asking for it. And, that is probably what it will take to take their power kick away from them.

[snowbeltmom]

I hope someone sues the NCAA over their silly nonsense. I don't like lawsuits as a general rule, but this organization is just asking for it. And, that is probably what it will take to take their power kick away from them.

 

It is difficult to sue an organization with such deep pockets and influence.  The football players at Northwestern just "won" their lawsuit awarding them the ability to form a union.  However, the appeals process is going to take years and tons of $$$$.  Even if the players win the appeals, Northwestern has stated that they will eliminate the football program.

 

[snowbeltmom]

I just checked, and San Francisco Flex Academy is fully accredited by WASC (the same folks who accredit our zoned high school): http://www.k12.com/sfflex/sfflex/who-we-are/accreditation#.U1Q4KlfN4TA

 

A bunch of their courses are approved by the state to meet the U.C. a-g admissions requirements and several are approved by the College Board as official AP courses.

 

So they're good enough for the accrediting commission, the state, and the College Board but not good enough for NCAA? That makes no sense to me.

Perhaps you are unaware of the high academic standards of the NCAA?  After all, in order to be awarded eligibility, a student has to achieve a combined math and reading SAT score of 400. ;) 

[maize]

Perhaps you are unaware of the high academic standards of the NCAA? After all, in order to be awarded eligibility, a student has to achieve a combined math and reading SAT score of 400. ;)

Ah, now it all makes sense ;)

 

 

This is seriously weird...setting some sort of standards for college athletes I understand, but this seems rather arbitrary.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm wondering if there is more information to this. It sounds like they have been investigating schools using K12 for the past 18 months and have just ruled on these schools. I do wonder if the schools themselves have been on notice for a while. NCAA did crack down on online schools over the last couple of years.

 

The article says other schools are under extended evaluation, which makes me think these 24 were under evaluation and a ruling was just made.

 

There are a couple things ncaa is looking for. One is a min amount of time for the course. Another is regular contact with the teacher and availability for assistance. I don't know if this is part of how K12 is delivered by these schools.

 

Yes the NCAA is a pain and sometimes lacks sense. Yes I think they often have a conflicting set of interests. But also there are students headed into the money sports of football and basketball who barely had high school level educations and are not really getting the college educations that it looks like they had on paper.

 

There is a long older thread on NCAA and online courses in one of the pinned threads. It's worth reading. They have been tightening the rules on online courses for a couple years. Homeschoolers definitely get sideswiped.

[Lolly]

Ah, now it all makes sense ;)

 

 

This is seriously weird...setting some sort of standards for college athletes I understand, but this seems rather arbitrary.

 

They are making it impossible because you cannot plan courses. There is no definitive way to know if a course will be approved or not until it is submitted. If the NCAA is not willing to provide a list of classes/texts that ARE approved; how can they expect people to be able to comply?

[Lolly]

 

Yes the NCAA is a pain and sometimes lacks sense. Yes I think they often have a conflicting set of interests. But also there are students headed into the money sports of football and basketball who barely had high school level educations and are not really getting the college educations that it looks like they had on paper.

 

 

Only, those students are not the ones likely to be suffering from their new rules. They are going about it entirely the wrong way. If they are concerned about academic ability and kids getting a true education in high school, they need to do something silly like raise the requirement on ACT and SAT scores. If they are concerned about the college education, that needs to be policed somehow. The requirements they are putting on using particular texts/classes is just making a lot of paperwork on both sides of the equation. I understand where they are coming from, their methods are just...for lack of a better word, stupid.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Lolly I don't disagree that the rules changes aren't particularly effective.

 

For example both ACT and SAT have benchmark scores. These scores indicate something like the score at which a student is 75% likely to earn C's in college freshman courses. I would like to see scholarship athletes have to have pretty close to those benchmark scores.

 

I really have a hard time with a student being paid to go to college when they are in remedial classes. Especially when the sports in question are a time drain and require missing many classes for competition and travel.

 

There is a certain QB who really gets my dander up because he attends no courses that are regular campus classes, only online classes supervised in athletic buildings. The lad was evidently overwhelmed by the commotion caused by his attending an undergrad English class.

[SkateLeft]

.

[FaithManor]

What bothers me is that they can just suddenly decide not to accept the classes. It is too late to go back and redo for these kids. I don't think they should be allowed to take a junior who has these classes as a freshman or sophomore and suddenly decide they can't use them. Do they expect these poor kids to go back and totally redo those two years of school? It is just wrong.

I really feel the NCAA should have a "catalog" each year just like every college, and in it is the coursework that is approved for that year. The freshman high school student then is governed by the catalog for the year they entered high school, the same as your program in college is governed by the requirements listed in the college catalog the year that you become a college freshman and then legally, they are usually bound to graduate you based on the coursework from your catalog. These should be fairly exhaustive catalogs that label accepted courses and the bodies accredited to provide it.

 

This way, a freshman could plan out four years that the NCAA would be required to accept based on the year the student entered high school. No nasty surprises as a senior.

 

I've know a couple of families that turned themselves inside out trying to meet NCAA requirements because coursework from previous years that had recently been acceptable was suddenly rejected leaving the student frantically making up credits. It's rather nuts.

[Crimson Wife]

There are a couple things ncaa is looking for. One is a min amount of time for the course. Another is regular contact with the teacher and availability for assistance.

This is why I don't understand why the two B&M K12 schools are included. The Flex Acadeny kids are physically at the school while doing the K12 classes and there are credentialed teachers available on-site to assist when needed. It's a totally different instructional model from the K12 virtual academies.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

I really feel the NCAA should have a "catalog" each year just like every college, and in it is the coursework that is approved for that year. The freshman high school student then is governed by the catalog for the year they entered high school, the same as your program in college is governed by the requirements listed in the college catalog the year that you become a college freshman and then legally, they are usually bound to graduate you based on the coursework from your catalog. These should be fairly exhaustive catalogs that label accepted courses and the bodies accredited to provide it.

 

 

I bet their next step will be to dictate to the colleges which courses count. 

[plansrme]

Wait...just because they are public schools does not mean they are accredited, at least not in California...

 

No, but the schools on the list that I know anything about are accredited.  And when a public school loses or is threatened with losing its accreditation, it's a big, big deal.  Perhaps there are schools on the list that are not accredited, but I doubt that the states who are paying for these schools would do so if they were not accredited and, so, would assume that the majority are.

[Hikin' Mama]

Perhaps you are unaware of the high academic standards of the NCAA? After all, in order to be awarded eligibility, a student has to achieve a combined math and reading SAT score of 400. ;)

Wow!

 

My son participates in an NCAA Division 1 sport. According to him, the NCAA only requires that the collegiate athlete pass 6 out of his/her 12 credits per term/semester. This doesn't apply to my son however, as he is there on an academic scholarship and gets nothing from participating in the sport. He does love it though!

 

My point is that I can't believe that an organization who only requires a 50 % passing rate in college would be so picky about the courses a student took before college. : /

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I really feel the NCAA should have a "catalog" each year just like every college, and in it is the coursework that is approved for that year. The freshman high school student then is governed by the catalog for the year they entered high school, the same as your program in college is governed by the requirements listed in the college catalog the year that you become a college freshman and then legally, they are usually bound to graduate you based on the coursework from your catalog. These should be fairly exhaustive catalogs that label accepted courses and the bodies accredited to provide it.

 

This way, a freshman could plan out four years that the NCAA would be required to accept based on the year the student entered high school. No nasty surprises as a senior.

 

I've know a couple of families that turned themselves inside out trying to meet NCAA requirements because coursework from previous years that had recently been acceptable was suddenly rejected leaving the student frantically making up credits. It's rather nuts.

I would rather not have NCAA arbitrating this at all. Let them publish a standard ( ex min six week course, weekly contact with live instructor). But I don't need a bureaucrat deciding if our Latin studies were rigorous enough.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

How about practice but no play for the first semester of college. First semester grades have to be satisfactory in real classroom courses (not online grade recovery classes from Western Oklahoma)?

 

Yes it would cramp fall season athletes. They could start with summer courses at their college.

 

I just hate a system that treats a 3.5 non-scholarship student the same as a 2.0 full scholarship student whose grades and scores were far below the average for his college.

[EKS]

The NCAA is ridiculous. See Schooled: The Price of College Sports.

[snowbeltmom]

I really have a hard time with a student being paid to go to college when they are in remedial classes. Especially when the sports in question are a time drain and require missing many classes for competition and travel.

 

There is a certain QB who really gets my dander up because he attends no courses that are regular campus classes, only online classes supervised in athletic buildings. The lad was evidently overwhelmed by the commotion caused by his attending an undergrad English class.

The problem is that the vast majority of Div I football and basketball players are not going to college for the education and all involved know it.  These kids are at college because college is the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA.  This quote is from the recent court decision:

 

"He ruled that Northwestern’s scholarship football players should be eligible to form a union based on a number of factors, including the time they devote to football (as many as 50 hours some weeks), the control exerted by coaches and their scholarships, which Mr. Ohr deemed a contract for compensation.

“It cannot be said that the employer’s scholarship players are ‘primarily students,’ â€ the decision said.

Continue reading the main story

The ruling comes at a time when the N.C.A.A. and its largest conferences are generating billions of dollars, primarily from football and men’s basketball. The television contract for the new college football playoff system is worth $7.3 billion over 10 years, and the current deal to broadcast the men’s basketball tournament is worth $10.8 billion over 14 years.

The decision could give momentum to those who believe the N.C.A.A. should modify its rules on how athletes are compensated. The ruling applies only to scholarship football players at Northwestern, but the precedent could extend to other Division I scholarship football players at similar private universities. (Collective bargaining at public universities is governed by state law, not the N.L.R.B.)"

[MysteryJen]

The problem is that while the money may be concentrated in a few sports the demands of D1 are huge even in the non-revenue sports. Travel, carefully worded practices excluded so that the sport can demand more than the 20 hours a week "allowed" by the NCAA.

 

Foreign athletes come to the US not for the education, but for the training. Athletes need a pre-professional track that does not require the hypocrisy of the NCAA and the "student athlete." That model works in D3, but in the high power, high stakes world of D1, it is not sustainable.

 

Online courses came under scrutiny because people cheat. And the NCAA is to blame for setting up the system that winks at hypocrisy and exploits the people it pretends to serve.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

Online courses came under scrutiny because people cheat. And the NCAA is to blame for setting up the system that winks at hypocrisy and exploits the people it pretends to serve. 

 

Everyone knows students can cheat in regular classroom courses too.  

[MysteryJen]

Everyone knows students can cheat in regular classroom courses too.  

Absolutely. But the advent of online courses made it easier to do and targeting a whole group of classes is easier for the NCAA than looking at individual schools and coaches.

 

This is a lot like the doping arguments. Testing is a step behind the people who take PEDs. The NCAA is about 3 steps behind the people trying to game the system. 

[jenn-]

Let me see if I understand all of this (no elite athlete at the moment, but want to understand).  If I send DD through a program that I know is not approved by the NCAA, then she is not eligible to play any sport in college, correct?

[In The Great White North]

 

Let me see if I understand all of this (no elite athlete at the moment, but want to understand).  If I send DD through a program that I know is not approved by the NCAA, then she is not eligible to play any sport in college, correct?

 

It only concerns Division I and II NCAA sports.

[snowbeltmom]

Let me see if I understand all of this (no elite athlete at the moment, but want to understand).  If I send DD through a program that I know is not approved by the NCAA, then she is not eligible to play any sport in college, correct?

 

Some of the popular online programs for homeschoolers, such as Lukeion, are not approved by the NCAA.  However, if when completing the worksheets, you list yourself as "the teacher of record", the class will be approved.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Let me see if I understand all of this (no elite athlete at the moment, but want to understand). If I send DD through a program that I know is not approved by the NCAA, then she is not eligible to play any sport in college, correct?

I would need to double check but I think that it is a question of eligibility for PLAY as a freshman. It used to be both play and practice but now I think college students can practice but not play if they are not declared eligible.

 

If I remember correctly, after freshman year, eligibility is based on the college grades.

 

It is also only for Div I and Div II. And only for sports governed by NCAA.

 

It is possible. It can also be very frustrating.

[Lolly]

Let me see if I understand all of this (no elite athlete at the moment, but want to understand).  If I send DD through a program that I know is not approved by the NCAA, then she is not eligible to play any sport in college, correct?

 

 

Sort of, however there is more to it than that. The problem comes in that there really isn't a list of programs that ARE approved. And, what is approved right now might not be approved when your dc graduates. So, you could be using a program in good faith that it is approved only to find out that it is no longer accepted. They get to decide when they review your list. In other words, you can only rely on what they have accepted in the past by word of mouth from other people who have been through the process (and it is a new one that started just this year, before it was a booklist only). And, they are allowed to change their minds based on individual cases.

[jenn-]

I would need to double check but I think that it is a question of eligibility for PLAY as a freshman. It used to be both play and practice but now I think college students can practice but not play if they are not declared eligible.

 

If I remember correctly, after freshman year, eligibility is based on the college grades.

 

It is also only for Div I and Div II. And only for sports governed by NCAA.

 

It is possible. It can also be very frustrating.

 

Okay, so from what I can find, if DD's chosen sport is Taekwondo, then she wouldn't have to worry because it doesn't appear to be a sport governed by the NCAA, correct?

[swimmermom3]

Has this been discussed?  The NCAA apparently is no longer accepting courses from a  number of cyber academies run by K12.  I personally know families who will be affected by this, so I imagine it is going to be quite a blow generally.  I know it isn't popular on here, but there are plenty of homeschooling families using their services.

 

I would be curious to know in what way those 24 providers did not comply with NCAA requirements. Is it the K12 curriculum itself or the way those providers administered the curriculum?

 

In Oregon, K12 and Connections Academy are both recognized and accredited providers.  My oldest son used Connections Academy for 11th grade and that was incorporated into his high school transcript and he still received his diploma from his high school when he graduated last year. His courses were free as it is funded similarly to the public schools.

 

My dd used a K12 class in 12th grade that we paid for privately, but that was still accredited.

 

I can see why the NCAA would have problems with some of the online courses. It would not be difficult to take say an Algebra 1 or 2 class through Connections and get all of the answers for homework and tests online. If the student has savvy search skills, they can complete the course without ever doing any work.

[plansrme]

I would be curious to know in what way those 24 providers did not comply with NCAA requirements. Is it the K12 curriculum itself or the way those providers administered the curriculum?

 

In Oregon, K12 and Connections Academy are both recognized and accredited providers.  My oldest son used Connections Academy for 11th grade and that was incorporated into his high school transcript and he still received his diploma from his high school when he graduated last year. His courses were free as it is funded similarly to the public schools.

 

My dd used a K12 class in 12th grade that we paid for privately, but that was still accredited.

 

I can see why the NCAA would have problems with some of the online courses. It would not be difficult to take say an Algebra 1 or 2 class through Connections and get all of the answers for homework and tests online. If the student has savvy search skills, they can complete the course without ever doing any work.

 

The potential for completing a class without having to do a lick of work is true of all online providers as well as of every single homeschooler.  Shutting out all online providers because one cannot police cheating is awfully backwards in this day and age.  Furthermore, if that is the rationale, it sets a dangerous precedent for homeschoolers.  

 

In addition to Georgia Cyber Academy, which is on the list, Georgia has a couple of options for homeschooled and traditionally-schooled students to complete classes online (Georgia Virtual School).  Many of my daughter's classmates at our public high school use GaVS for classes not offered at their school (languages, especially) or that do not fit into their schedules, and currently almost all of their offerings are on the NCAA's approved list.  The only exceptions are for classes that would not be acceptable from the B&M HS--remedial classes and ESOL English (ESOL other subjects are okay).  I see zero difference between GaCA and GaVS if the potential for cheating is the reason K12's offerings have been blacklisted, and this concerns me, as my daughter is going to have a couple of NCAA-required courses through GaVS.

 

FYI, if you want to see what courses the NCAA has approved and not approved at your local high school, you can find your school here and search for a list of approved or denied courses.  One of the courses my daughter has from her school, a post-AP chemical engineering class taught by two teachers with Ph.D.s in chemical engineering, which is open only to students with 4s or 5s on AP Chem, is actually on the non-approved list, albeit with the "may approve pending further documentation" notation.  She has science running out of her ears, so I don't think she will need to count it if she does her sport, but my guess is that they've never had an athlete get that far in chemistry and, so, have not bothered to have it reviewed.  Otherwise, the excluded courses are all remedial and ESOL English.

[swimmermom3]

The potential for completing a class without having to do a lick of work is true of all online providers as well as of every single homeschooler.  Shutting out all online providers because one cannot police cheating is awfully backwards in this day and age.  Furthermore, if that is the rationale, it sets a dangerous precedent for homeschoolers.  

 

Agreed. Cheating is probably not the reason for NCAA rules in this case. My older kids informed me that accessing a test from a ps teacher by whatever means possible and then posting it online was a common practice at their high school.

 

In addition to Georgia Cyber Academy, which is on the list, Georgia has a couple of options for homeschooled and traditionally-schooled students to complete classes online (Georgia Virtual School).  Many of my daughter's classmates at our public high school use GaVS for classes not offered at their school (languages, especially) or that do not fit into their schedules, and currently almost all of their offerings are on the NCAA's approved list.  The only exceptions are for classes that would not be acceptable from the B&M HS--remedial classes and ESOL English (ESOL other subjects are okay).  I see zero difference between GaCA and GaVS if the potential for cheating is the reason K12's offerings have been blacklisted, and this concerns me, as my daughter is going to have a couple of NCAA-required courses through GaVS.

 

This is why I am still thinking that it has to be an administrative issue and not a curriculum issue. Does that make sense?  Otherwise, how could you accept the credit for the same curriculum from one school but deny it from another school? It must be like accepting Lukeion curriculum from a state school, but not from the actual curriculum provider.

 

FYI, if you want to see what courses the NCAA has approved and not approved at your local high school, you can find your school here and search for a list of approved or denied courses.  One of the courses my daughter has from her school, a post-AP chemical engineering class taught by two teachers with Ph.D.s in chemical engineering, which is open only to students with 4s or 5s on AP Chem, is actually on the non-approved list, albeit with the "may approve pending further documentation" notation.  She has science running out of her ears, so I don't think she will need to count it if she does her sport, but my guess is that they've never had an athlete get that far in chemistry and, so, have not bothered to have it reviewed.  Otherwise, the excluded courses are all remedial and ESOL English.

 

I kind of wish I had not looked at that list.

 

At our local public high school (2800 students) every single freshman is required to take Conceptual Physics, which includes a lab.  This sequence started last year.  Conceptual Physics is on the NCAA's denied list!  I think I would be in a towering rage if I weren't so stunned. Fortunately, ds will still have three sciences with a lab, but many many kids do not go on to take physics their senior year.

 

[Crimson Wife]

What makes no sense to me is that at our zoned high school every single English class aside from English Language Development (aka ESL), every single math class, every single science course aside from one CTE (voc-tech) course, and every single social studies course aside from one CTE course meet the NCAA requirements. Yet if I decided to enroll my DD in the SF Flex Academy and sign her up for a full load of AP courses, the NCAA would deny them. The K12 AP courses might or might not compare favorably with the AP courses at our zoned high school (I have no idea), but I know that they're harder than the general ed track courses at our zoned school.

[snowbeltmom]

"This is why I am still thinking that it has to be an administrative issue and not a curriculum issue. Does that make sense?  Otherwise, how could you accept the credit for the same curriculum from one school but deny it from another school? It must be like accepting Lukeion curriculum from a state school, but not from the actual curriculum provider."

 

 

During one of my many conversations with the NCAA, I was told that the AP Chemistry class my son took would not be approved.  I had signed my son up directly with ChemAdvantage. However if I would have signed him up through PA Homeschoolers, the class would have been approved.  I explained to the rep that the two classes were in fact the same class - that PAHS had hired ChemAdvantage to teach the class.  I had simply signed my son up directly with ChemAdvantage rather than going through PAHS. The rep told me that it didn't matter if it was the same class.  It would not be approved because ChemAdvantage was not in the NCAA database.

 

I am bypassing all of this nonsense by listing myself as the teacher of record.  I refuse to deal with STUPID.

 

 

[FaithManor]

All of this is in my estimation is bureaucratic stupidity. It just simply does not make sense. The mind numbing reality is that the NCAA is making it nigh unto impossible to plan a four year course of study and it almost seems to be a deliberate attempt to discriminate against students in rural areas where schools are small, classes are limited, and students often use online colleges and academies that are accredited to get access to higher level coursework that they can't get at school.

 

I wonder what it means in terms of students one district over who no longer have a foreign language instructor on campus and take all of their Spanish or French courses online with students from two other districts (basically, the districts are sharing a couple of teachers)? I've seen the assignments since I did a little French tutoring and they are absolutely on par with the larger high school who still offers it in house and the coursework is not less strenuous than a 100 level French course at the regional university with several accreditations.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Okay, so from what I can find, if DD's chosen sport is Taekwondo, then she wouldn't have to worry because it doesn't appear to be a sport governed by the NCAA, correct?

Are their colleges with Varsity TKD teams? Because NCAA isn't going to be involved with club or extracurricular sports (as far as I know). It their is a team but it is not under NCAA then there might not be an issue. The only thing I can think of is if the college makes all varsity athletes follow NCAA guidelines.

 

It the competition is through an independent TKD school under WTF or another TKD governing body then it may not come under school oversight at all.