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Life of Fred--Just venting


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Okay, so we've never really used Fred. I bought Fractions last year and DS read some of it, but it got set aside. Just recently returned to it as I wanted a prealgebra before Aops and went with Fred Physics. At the same time I got decimals to round off the set. So I decided we would go through fractions/decimals/prealgebra for fun. So far in two days DS has done half the book with me. I'm kind if astounded at how easy the book is. I feel a little cheated. Not only that, but it really bothers me that a chapter title might be "Add and Reduce" while not saying a single thing about reduction in the chapter. Then it may have a reduction problem-- super easy--in the Your turn to play. But the chapters themselves are so devoid of what the chapter is supposed to be talking about. Does it get better? He has already done two bridges and not learned anything new. It is a lot lighter on math than I ever expected. I was hoping that an entire book on fractions would go muh deeper into the subject then other curriculums-- but I'm starting to think there is just a lot more fluff. Yet another math curriculum....

The good news is that BA is in the mail!

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If it makes you feel any better, I have a bunch of Fred books from Fractions up, and the only thing they've ever been used for is a couple of book reports when ds was around 7 or 8.

 

Hurray for BA.  I have no real need for it and I'm not even a fan of the guides (too much color, yuck), but I still feel the urge to buy it, especially level 4.  Having been through AoPS prealgebra so many times, it's easy to see even from the samples how nicely BA leads into the prealgebra text.

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I like them a lot for early elementary - for a kid who just needs some basic exposure to math concepts, but not that much explicit instruction, they're great.  We haven't gotten to Fractions/Decimals yet and at that point we'll switch over permanently to BA and AoPS.  

 

I say that as someone coming from Saxon, though, which was so boring it caused crying.  It also never taught my kids anything much about mathematical thinking or problem solving, so Fred has been a good transition to BA and more rigorous brain activity.

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No, they definitely aren't deep, and not even on the same continent with BA/AoPS.  Like someone else said, I think they are great for helping a kid who is burned out/disliking math/wondering what the point is to find some fun and joy in math.  That's how it worked for my oldest, who started hsing in 4th grade.  She did the whole elementary series that year and it really put the spark back in her eye.  She found Fred sweet, goofy and endearing.  She did do Fractions and Decimals in 5th grade.  I thnk the Fractions book actually does a terrible job of teaching Fractions, way more harm than good.  The Decimals was a decent review of 5th grade math.  I didn't care for either of the PreA books or the Physics book.  I did like the Algebra book . . . . until I met and fell in love with AoPS.  

 

My younger daughter is way more no-nonsense.  We did a few of the elementary books, but she found Fred's guillibility annoying, and all the digressions annoyed her to.  She would say, "Can we skip all that stuff and just get to the math?"  We've dropped it, and I don't think we'll be looking back.  Between MM, BA, HOE, Zaccaro, JA, and AoPS, I think we've got fun and depth more than covered.

 

 

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So, I can't find it anywhere -   what is BA?

 

BTW, we use LOF for fun....when a kid completes a math level or section (like the first half of 5th grade math)  he "gets to do a Fred", like Fractions.  Then when done with 5th grade level altogether, he "gets to do a Fred" again, like Decimals.  My kids consider it a reward of sorts, so I feel nice about myself as a homeschool mom when I think they get rewarded for math, with math.  And it's not just me....THEY are the ones that think that!

 

And every now and again we'll catch a concept that needs more attention - my DD13 just blasted through the first LOF Prealgebra book in about 2 weeks, then got hung up on the second one because she finally had to learn conversion factors....she'd been bluffing through them before then....

 

Hoping someone will tell me about BA - and where do you see AoPS?  A convention?  Have to order somewhere special?

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What's BA, please?

 

Beast Academy put out by The Art of Problem Solving.

 

In terms of Fred, I dislike it for so many reasons that are truly not worth getting into :) But LegoMan is 6 and I'm finding he has such enthusiasm for Fred who he sees as some sort of dear friend. So most days he does a chapter in Fred Decimals, a couple of pages in BA, and then 5-6 CWP problems. I figure Fred is a fun introduction to the fraction and decimal topics. BA is for getting in there and really challenging him.

 

And then there is me. I ended up with a Fred Algebra book and I'm running through it for a quick review right now before I dive into running through AOPS pre-A to prep for him hitting that which is coming up fast. I do like that at least Fred is self-teaching. Makes it simpler for me to go through and review.

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I am so glad to hear that others feel the same way about LOF.  We just breezed through Fractions in less than a week.  Just doesn't seem like any substance.  I read somewhere that it was recommended by gifted sites because there is no repetition.  My son wants to read the book because he loves the story.  So I agree it can be good as a reward after math has been learned.  The review said the calculus book was equivalent to 2 years of calculus, which surprised me.  I am working on using multiple math sources to ensure that he doesn't miss anything.  Sometimes the abbreviations are hard to understand, but I am learning.

 

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For my DD, they were a great transition to working from a textbook in a notebook vs working in a workbook and in getting to some new concepts. At age 7, she was ready for pre-algebra, but not for a high school type textbook. Aftr a year of LOF, (plus all of the Key to Algebra workbooks) she moved to AOPS and does LOF for fun-she has advanced algebra and geometry for this summer (plus the LA books).

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I think Life of Fred works well for some kids.    My kids have done Horizons through 6th grade, but after that, I started looking around and found Life of Fred.   It wound up working extremely well for my second daughter (the only one of mine so far who has used it throughout high school).  She had used Beginning Algebra through about half of Trig, when she took her SAT--and got 680.  That's not bad for an artistic, non-mathy kid, and was enough with her stellar language scores to make her a National Merit Finalist.   I truly doubt that any other curriculum would have enabled her to do better.  

 

I don't like LoF as a stand-alone for elementary kids, but for high school, despite being short and having lessons that don't last very long, it is extremely good, depending on the child.  

 

 

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I'll be honest - no matter how much the author touts this as a full curriculum, I've only been able to consider it a supplement at BEST. With a gifted/accelerated child? Easy reading material at best.

 

This.  I've never been able to figure out how some people use it as their only math.  I feel like they'd surely miss/forget things that are barely touched on.  We use LoF as fun.  For a kid named Fred (we call him Fritz, but his name is Frederick) who loves math, it's awesome.  But no way would I use it alone!

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DD thought he was ridiculous and had no interest in it. She generally likes story-based curricula but not when it makes absolutely no sense at all. I have such strong objections to his not-so-subtle agenda pushing in the content that I was quite happy that she didn't like it. 

 

Oh, right. It's supposed to be a math book. I agree; it's quite weak.

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My 13 year old asks for them as gifts :)  He reads them in his free time.  He is getting Advanced Algebra for Easter tomorrow...it makes him happy!  I do NOT like them as a math curriculum, but if we're talking minecraft versus reading LOF, LOF is probably a better use of his time so I feed his interest.  He's not about to read a regular textbook in his free time so even if a LITTLE math sinks in, it's worthwhile.

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I see them as a great introduction. My husband found it helpful when he decided to go back and re-do his high school math, doing LOF gave a nice gentle introduction, and then doing the same subject in AOPS let him go deeper into it without trying to learn the basic core concepts at the same time.

 

They also make lots of sense for a non-mathy child, and I do believe can be used alone with that sort of child to give a good grounding which sticks without all the extra they can't handle.

 

But, yes, I doubt that for a gifted child they would be anywhere near enough.

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Now that we are about finished with it, my opinion has changed slightly. I still find the chapters to be rather devoid of explaining or teaching much, but I don't find the problem sets too terrible. They do a okay job of reviewing concepts. Some of them are kind of fun. At any rate DS seems to really like them-- which means they are not challenging him at all as he hates being challenged. But at least he loves doing math and does all the problems. He is begging for the entire LoF set-- even the early elementary ones. Not going to do that but might get a few more of the prealgebra ones as long as he loves them. We will see.

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I found my 8 year old daughter in bed tonight reading LoF Cats (the third one, which she is *way* past, and is currently in use by my 6 year old).  She doesn't even particularly like math - she's a humanities person.

 

If your son still wants them in 6 months or so we'll send you the early ones.

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My 13 year old asks for them as gifts :)  He reads them in his free time.  He is getting Advanced Algebra for Easter tomorrow...it makes him happy! 

 

My 12 yro is in the middle of Beginning Algebra and it is exactly at the right difficulty level for her.  She does get all of the questions right in the cities, though.  So, we are going to do a second year of Algebra 1 using the Foerster's textbook (just in case).  The LOF algebra book has been a huge confidence booster for her.  It's been a very enjoyable math year.    

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No, I don't think they get better. I purchased one a couple years ago after reading about it on WTM (may have been the last curriculum junkie purchase I regretted), thinking it would be a transition to Algebra, then wondered how someone might use it as their total math curriculum. Don't get me wrong, my dd liked reading about math and enjoyed it. It was an enjoyable supplement for a summer but I felt it had too little substance for my liking.

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Not only that, but it really bothers me that a chapter title might be "Add and Reduce" while not saying a single thing about reduction in the chapter. Then it may have a reduction problem-- super easy--in the Your turn to play. But the chapters themselves are so devoid of what the chapter is supposed to be talking about. 

 

He does that (the author).  Sometimes the questions don't really come with an intro or explanation in the text.  Honestly, (I've used Apples all the way to Beginning Algebra) his best books are the Prealgebra with Biology, the Intermediate series (I think it's Kidneys, Liver and Mineshaft) and the Beginning Algebra.  We skipped Physics and Prealgebra with Economics.  We used the Key to series for practice with fractions and decimals/percents.  

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For my DD, they were a great transition to working from a textbook in a notebook vs working in a workbook and in getting to some new concepts. At age 7, she was ready for pre-algebra, but not for a high school type textbook. Aftr a year of LOF, (plus all of the Key to Algebra workbooks) she moved to AOPS and does LOF for fun-she has advanced algebra and geometry for this summer (plus the LA books).

 

What do you think of the geometry and advanced algebra books?  

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I actually did the first several chapters of Beginning Algebra myself, and I did like it.  What I realized, though, was that if I didn't get how to do a problem, nothing in the book helped me figure it out.  It didn't have worked out solutions - just the answers.  So I felt stuck and frustrated, and that it would encourage just moving on without really understanding.  That's actually why I decided not to have my dd try it out, I worried that it would encourage the bad habits I've been trying to train her out of - the idea of just getting the answer and then moving on, vs. really trying to understand the solution, using failure on a problem as a chance to learn.  I like that Zaccaro, AoPS/Alcumus, and JA - the programs she's been using this year - offer fully worked solutions, and I've been encouraging her to read the solutions even when she gets the problems right, because particularly with AoPS/Alcumus, you often see a different or better way of solving the problem.  I want to keep going in that mode, not just try to get a certain number of problems right before you are "allowed" to move on.

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I see them as a great introduction. 

I see it oppositely, I think they are best after a solid intro somewhere else. I'd rather them learn the how using some kind of discovery /conceptual approach. We recently did long division in LoF and I was appalled at how it was taught, thank goodness we had already done some division w/ RS and BA. I don't want ds' first intro to a topic to be focused solely on algorithms. Ds does love LoF though so I see it as a bit of fun review and practice, which is good because he has a tendency to forget.  I do like the whimsy and the random facts, although I could see how that would be annoying to some (like my daughter!).

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I see it oppositely, I think they are best after a solid intro somewhere else. I'd rather them learn the how using some kind of discovery /conceptual approach. We recently did long division in LoF and I was appalled at how it was taught, thank goodness we had already done some division w/ RS and BA. I don't want ds' first intro to a topic to be focused solely on algorithms.

 

This.  What I don't understand is how whenever Life of Fred comes up there are people who always say how conceptual it is.  I'm actually amazed that it hasn't happened yet in this thread.

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I haven't really done anything with AA or Geometry yet. That's on the queue for summer, and it's likely DD will get to them before I do.

 

I do have to say for PA (and beginning algebra-I'm guessing the same applies to advanced algebra and geometry), I don't think LoF can be a complete course by itself, but with someone pulling out the concepts and actively teaching it, and adding in more practice where needed (I do think Beginning algebra, where the Expanded edition adds in the home companion, does a better job than pre-algebra does a better job here) and explaining solutions, it can be. And in that, LoF is in good company-there really aren't many math curricula out there that are self-teaching. 

 

 

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LOF was the only consistent math spine I had going for a few months. And now that we've moved into BA with some MM, I've grown increasingly disenchanted with LOF.

 

I'm still not sure the charge that the elementary series don't include enough practice is a really valid complaint. Worksheets to drill elementary math are a dime a dozen for free on the internet. If you think your kid needs more practice, you can print them out till the cows come home. For CP who burnt out on pages full of math problems in PS, the lack of them was a real plus.

 

But, I think what dmmelter says touches on the real issue. I showed Edgewood to my SIL over Christmas, and she thought it looked neat, especially the introduction of set theory. But, she said, "It's obvious the author is a math teacher." In other words, she noticed that he assumes a certain level of direct teaching which is not present in the text itself. I survived College Algebra by memorizing formulas, I think at a certain point I won't be able to provide the level of support LOF requires, even with the expanded books in the upper levels.

 

In any case, CP has also cooled on LOF now, so I may quietly drop it. Unless someone can give me a good reason to finish off the elementary series? The last chapter in Farming that we did I made him set up his own information graph on his chalkboard. I had to talk him through it, but I realized that it wasn't enough for me to be happy with him being able to read a chart, he should also know how to make one. Not something I would have thought of on my own....

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OK, you guys have convinced me.  :p

 

We have been using LoF from Apples as our main maths curriculum.  HOWEVER, my husband is a math guy and he has been doing the teaching.  I got as far as Ice Cream and got so lost .... (Caboose Boy was already in Mineshaft by then.)  I know that they used the text as a jump-off point, and would quit every so often to work on some basic skills CB needed to sharpen before he could go on.

 

We are about to swap roles, and I know that I can't really do that.  I have been having a look at AoPS to use as a supplement to LoF as we get into the "more advanced" stuff.  He's on a break from Decimals and Percents to work more on his "long division", since that's been tripping him up.  He will restart the book for the third time in a couple of weeks time.

 

Dad will continue to coach CB when he runs into trouble, but I am hoping that the extra information in a more traditional curriculum will help keep us out of trouble.  :p

 

Thanks everyone!

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I agree it is NOT a full curriculum.  But my kids LOVE FRED.  The book starts us off on many discussions where we apply math.  We use it after we have studied whatever topic is in the next chapter.  I think it is valuable as a supplement especially to apply math.I can see where some kids might not like Fred, and it just wouldn't be their thing.  But for a child who thinks the story is funny it can lead to many discussions.  I wouldn't use it alone, nor would I just have my kids read it.  I read it with them and facilitate discussion.

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