Update-Shady Dentist?-Opinions please

[Mary in VA]

My 23 yo has had good dental care her whole life. She had many years of orthodontic care, with a palate expander, rubber bands in all sorts of configurations, head gear, etc. She has worn retainers every night since getting the braces off.  She had dental implants for two congenitally missing teeth two years ago.  THe jaw had receded where those teeth were missing and the oral surgeon built it up with what he called "bone in a bottle" when he put the implants in.  It has been a year since her last dentist visit (longest stretch in her life) due to lack of dental insurance.  She now has insurance and went to a new dentist for an exam because our family dentist doesn't take her insurance.  She didn't trust the new dentist at all.  He told her she had two cavities, which she believes is plausible.  BUT, here's the part we're skeptical of, he told her she has a big problem with clenching her jaw and she has shattered part of her jaw.  He said it is causing the gum to recede around her implants, and that she needs a night guard at $500.  

 

She told him she doesn't think she is clenching her jaw and night and damaging her teeth.  She wears her retainers EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and there is NO DAMAGE to them.  With the retainers in her back teeth barely touch.  He told her she could be clenching during the day.  She told him she is a third grade teacher and is talking from 7:30 in the morning until 3:30 in the afternoon. It would be impossible to clench then.  He took no panorama x-ray or x-ray of her jaw.  He did this by feeling her jaw.  SHe has no pain, tired jaw, or headaches.  He said the gum was receding around her implants and she told him they look exactly like the looked when they were put in.  We are just skeptical that her family dentist growing up, dentist in her college town, oral surgeon and orthodontist never saw a problem.  

 

She just got off the phone with the hygienist from the dentist in her college town.  SHe said there were no notes in her records indicating she is a grinder and her x-rays from a year ago show no evidence of grinding.  

 

We are of the opinion the new dentist is shady.  Are we missing something?  Could she have become a "clencher" in the last year and "shattered her jaw" in that time?  

 

Any opinions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mary

 

UPDATE- DD went to another dentist for a second opinion.  This dentist said there was NO evidence she grinds her teeth and the "cavities" were just some discoloration, no decay.  DD was VERY happy and we went out for frozen yogurt in celebration  :001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

She needs to go to another dentist.  

[Danestress]

Yeah. She needs an X-ray of the jaw. If he thinks it is shattered, it seems like he would have recommended an x-ray of it! Why didn't he? Normally dental insurance would cover that.

[bluemongoose]

I vote shady...I am a "clencher" and I wear a nightguard.  I have been a clencher for years!  My jaw has not shattered nor have my gums receded.  I can clench so hard that my jaw is out of place and gets stuck open when I yawn.  This happens if I forget to wear the guard. Also, I know when I clench. My jaw is very sore the next morning, sometimes I even have to work hard to open it normally...it feels stiff. And of course I have major headaches when things are bad.  All this to say, I clench and I do it a lot, and I have never shattered my jaw or had receding gums.  Plus...no ex-ray??

[freesia]

I vote shady...I am a "clencher" and I wear a nightguard.  I have been a clencher for years!  My jaw has not shattered nor have my gums receded.  I can clench so hard that my jaw is out of place and gets stuck open when I yawn.  This happens if I forget to wear the guard. Also, I know when I clench. My jaw is very sore the next morning, sometimes I even have to work hard to open it normally...it feels stiff. And of course I have major headaches when things are bad.  All this to say, I clench and I do it a lot, and I have never shattered my jaw or had receding gums.  Plus...no ex-ray??

I agree. This is all true of me, too.

[4everHis]

We ran in to a shady dentist last year. Went to our old dentist for 2nd opinion. Even he couldn't believe we'd been told dd had 21 cavities. Uh Yeah! Get a second opinon!!

 

[Mary in VA]

Thanks for confirming our thoughts! They took regular x-rays of her teeth, but none of her jaw. She said she disagreed with him immediately when he said she was a clencher and he kept adding reasons that got scarier. First damage to top of teeth, then damaging her implants, then "shattered jaw", then her jaw was "trenching"(whatever that is) and she had bone loss.  He said he could tell because "this is his job."  It was all by feeling her jaw. He said she has been doing this for years.  Until her implants she had invisalign retainers.  The hygienist she spoke to said she would have ground through them if she was a grinder.  She is NOT going back to him.  She is going to get the records from her last two dentists and see what a new one says.  Then she may file a complaint with whatever the state dental authority is.

[catz]

I had one dentist tell me this too and NO other dentist ever had.  I've never worn a night guard, I've not had jaw pain, or problems.  I vote shady dentist.  I'd try someone else.  Possibly even before having fillings done with the quack.

[lynn]

We ran in to a shady dentist last year. Went to our old dentist for 2nd opinion. Even he couldn't believe we'd been told dd had 21 cavities. Uh Yeah! Get a second opinon!!

We had the same issue with a new dentist.  I had been to dentist regularly for 40 years and this new dentist in pretty building suddenly found something like 12 cavities.  

 

 

 

[Mandylubug]

well, to play devil's advocate. It could be the gum tissue is receding around the implants. It could be that, compared to "normal" gingival tissue levels, her tissue levels are considered as receding. A new dentist only knows that they see in front of them. They can't magically see what the beginning, before surgery, etc. her tissue and bone levels looked like. You don't need dental xrays to diagnose recession nor grinding/clenching. Recession can be proven with the dental probe and grinding isn't proven by xray, period.

 

Many people grind and clench and are totally unaware. It is imperative to NOT in any circumstances grind or clench on dental implants or they will eventually fail. So, it is good to be highly cautious and take care of your implant investment. Is this dentist a little too eager? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

You can go to a second dentist for a second opinion or you can state to this dentist that you understand their concerns and you would like to watch the tissues for changes.

[Mary in VA]

well, to play devil's advocate. It could be the gum tissue is receding around the implants. It could be that, compared to "normal" gingival tissue levels, her tissue levels are considered as receding. A new dentist only knows that they see in front of them. They can't magically see what the beginning, before surgery, etc. her tissue and bone levels looked like. You don't need dental xrays to diagnose recession nor grinding/clenching. Recession can be proven with the dental probe and grinding isn't proven by xray, period.

 

Many people grind and clench and are totally unaware. It is imperative to NOT in any circumstances grind or clench on dental implants or they will eventually fail. So, it is good to be highly cautious and take care of your implant investment. Is this dentist a little too eager? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

You can go to a second dentist for a second opinion or you can state to this dentist that you understand their concerns and you would like to watch the tissues for changes.

I understand what you are saying, except the implants look exactly the same as when they were put in.  You could aways see the darker bottom part of the implant.  DD commented at the time they were put in that she was glad they aren't front teeth because you can tell they are implants :mellow: I know he can only see what is in front of him, but he seemed unwilling to hear anything DD said to him.  THe fact her retainers have NO damage to them and she has never had to replace retainers for damage is telling, especially since he is adamant this has been happening for years!  It seems like a second opinion would be the wisest course at this time. We have been blessed in the past with wonderful dentists that we had absolute trust in.  It's discouraging to get one that doesn't seem to want to listen or doesn't really "hear" what is being said. 

[Mandylubug]

I understand what you are saying, except the implants look exactly the same as when they were put in.  You could aways see the darker bottom part of the implant.  DD commented at the time they were put in that she was glad they aren't front teeth because you can tell they are implants :mellow: I know he can only see what is in front of him, but he seemed unwilling to hear anything DD said to him.  THe fact her retainers have NO damage to them and she has never had to replace retainers for damage is telling, especially since he is adamant this has been happening for years!  It seems like a second opinion would be the wisest course at this time. We have been blessed in the past with wonderful dentists that we had absolute trust in.  It's discouraging to get one that doesn't seem to want to listen or doesn't really "hear" what is being said. 

 

Definitely no harm in a second opinion and there are definitely shady ones out there. Unfortunately for us, my DH was used by a previous employer of mine. We trusted him before we had the idea to get a second opinion because some didn't seem quite right. Turns out we were being taken to the cleaners. Sad circumstance for everyone involved.

[shawthorne44]

Run!

 

My mother has trouble with her teeth most of her life.  She had never had a cavity, no problems, no pain.  Then the dentist retired.  New one said that she had more cavities than teeth and her parents believed all medical people.  

 

A year or so I went to a doc who said I need over $10,000 worth of work on my teeth including $1800 for an intensive cleaning.  I instead drove a long way to see a dentist that was a childhood friend of my husband's.  I needed some work, which I was expecting.  But total cost was $1000.  Dentist was shocked when I told him all the things that the other dentist said I needed.  

[TrixieB]

Don't let him do ANY work on your dd!!!

 

If your family dentist doesn't take her insurance, ask him to recommend a dentist he trusts who takes her insurance.

 

That said, our dentist is not a "preferred provider" on our current dental insurance plan.  So we get the non-preferred rate, which means a cleaning & exam costs us $9 out of pocket.  It might be worth checking with your family dentist to see if your dd's insurance puts her in a similar situation.  Or, perhaps your family dentist would give her a cash rate? 

 

Once upon a time our family dentist was a preferred provider on our plan.  I had been a patient for over ten years, never had to have any work done, just cleaning/exam every 6 months.  Then we got different insurance so I went to a different dentist.  This dentist told me I needed 2 fillings (he did one of them) and that I needed extra cleaning because of periodontal disease.  Then I found out that for just $9 out of pocket per visit I could go back to my original dentist.  HE said I didn't need that remaining filling because there was no evidence of decay (and the situation is still the same, no decay ELEVEN YEARS LATER) and that I had no periodontal disease.

 

So yeah, I am suspicious of the "new dentist = you need work done" situation.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Yuck! I am very leery of dentists. We had a great one that we went to, but we always paid out of pocket, no insurance. When we moved and got insurance, we started going to these dentists that were terrible! I've never had a cavity and this one dentist told me I had a cavity in every single tooth. Another dentist wouldn't let me back while they looked at my son, who was like 5 at the time. Um, no! We finally found an old-school, single dentist practice, who does take our insurance (yay!) that we like fairly well. I would not, in your daughter's situation and with her history, hesitate to go and find another opinion.

 

 

[Mandylubug]

FYI, the best way to find a great dentist is to call the local orthodontics, oral surgeons or periodontists. They see all the local dental practices work and will give you good referrals.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Dh (registered dental assistant) says without previous xrays the doc would have no comparison. Gums receding around an implant is not uncommon. If her retainer covers her teeth then she has NO need for a night guard.

 

Hope that helps.

[Cammie]

My brother recently had a bad experience with a shady dentist.  He didn't go to the family dentist because of insurance issues.  Ended up at one that does take it.  Told him he had LOTS of cavities (that he didn't have).  She also recommended expensive x-rays that he didn't need.  He decided to pay out of pocket and go to the family dentist...no cavities, no need for x-rays!  He did need some serious dental work...just not that kind the first dentist was recommending!

[Mary in VA]

Update in #1

[catz]

Thanks for the update!  So glad.  I thought that first dentist sounded like a nut job.  I actually had one dentist that wanted to do like a bunch of crowns like pushing 20 years ago.  I've had ONE done since then and have had one suggested to do in the next year or so.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Love your update!