Help me see if I am over reacting - LONG

[NCMom]

This is NOT a JAWM. I am not sure if this will make any sense, but here goes...

 

Background...

We live with my mother.  The agreement was that she would leave me this house if I came down here and cared for her and paid all the bills until she passes.   She gets only a tiny amount of SS because she could never hold a job, so once she was divorced again she was broke.   My two sisters would not live in the same country with her if they had a choice, so I was it. Stupidly dh and I figured since we were stuck with her at least we could do it in a big house, lol.  And actually it does help.  :lol:

 

At the time this agreement was made, I did not realize she had textbook  mod/high functioning Borderline Personality Disorder. She was actually diagnosed  (although I am not exactly sure with what, since she won't tell us lol) when she went to a psych when divorcing my stepfather (another long story). I always thought it was me.  I am the scapegoat well over half the time.  

 

Anyway, we do pay everything and care for her.  Property taxes, maintenance, mortgage, holidays, her vet bills!  - we pay it all on a very tiny income. I worked when we first go here but she can't be trusted around children, now there are no jobs, lol.  She pays her insurance and car insurance and most of her food. The rest of her income goes to...buying plants.  The house has two separate living areas but we pay all of it. We even divided the massive yard part of the property via fencing into three areas  - hers, ours and a common garden space.  Unfortunately, she will not make a will so I will not get the house, but I am ok with that.  She is screwing one of my other sisters around for another property so it is rather humorous actually.  We currently were living in a sort of unstable peace, because I FINALLY wised up and won't play the game. Although one can probably argue that simply being NEAR a BPD IS playing the game! Uugh.

 

The issue... 

Because of the "peace" we we started feeling optimistic and making plans. We were planning to redo her area this fall. New floor etc. and planning to update a lot of stuff in the house, electrical etc. Saving money to pay off the small mortgage IF she would "sell" the house to us.   We have tried before but it is hard for us to do anything around here because she stands over you complaining, but in such a way that it is hard to ask her to stop.  She drives away contractors. Seriously. BPD at its finest.
 

However, she has recently decided that the only thing she cares about is her  "garden".  She has told me that many, many times in the past year. I specifically asked her and she said  "Relationships mean nothing to me, only the beauty of my gardens. That's all I care about."   Okaaay.

 

Well  we have and have had for a long time now, chickens and goats. There is fencing, but TWICE in 10 years they got into her area and ate ONE of her blueberry bushes.  Her dog killed chickens, and destroyed a lot of other stuff.  But I was ok with that because it happens. Animals are animals. 

 

Unfortunately her behavior this year about the ~potential~ of even one of her plants being destroyed has escalated.  We went on the only vacation we have had in 10 years and she basically let most of our flock be killed.  She literally accosted my husband about the goats last summer even though they had not gotten out even once!   Now DD18 has a 11 new chicks and we are building an elaborate system of chunnels and pasturing, but my mother has not been able to stop making comments.  Then last night she bugged dh for an HOUR about it while he tried to work outside.

 

I think I am done.  These 10 years of walking on eggshells added to the 18 years of childhood insanity and the adult episodes before this = I.am.done. :thumbdown:  It is hard for me to see if I am having a healthy reaction though.

 

DH/dds and I discussed it this AM and for the sake of (my) sanity we are considering getting rid of everything except the dogs and cats. She wins, LOL.  My question is  - dh is adamant that we are not putting another penny into this house except to pay the monthly bills. He doesn't even want us to mow her lawn anymore; he says she can pay for it. I will end up doing it though.

 

Is this vindictive???  Is it playing her typical game of "I will take my toys and go home and show you"?   And what the heck do I say to her?  How do you tell a BP that they win, but in return they WILL leave you alone 'cause you're DONE and you might have actually grown some some...boundaries, LOL.

 

 

Doesn't being part of a family mean that you have to have SOME give and take?  Or do her wishes trump since it is her house?  We cannot, well really should not, leave as she will literally be homeless in a month and we did agree.  Sigh.  Next year by this time I will have finished my teaching certificate and will be working full time, with two dc gone and one doing mostly dual enrollment.  At that time I figure we will have the income to be able to get her into senior apts (but only if they have a garden...)!   OR we can move.  Working three jobs and barely surviving vs living with her... No contest!

 

Georgia (WWIII looks to be here soon lol, but it felt great to type that out. :laugh: )

 

[Joanne]

Wow. I am looking at this from a completely different angle than you are asking.

GET OUT. Get out, move away, do not engage, "help", support or act on her behalf. It is not worth living there - even if you DID get the house in the "end."

 

That is cray-cray. Why are you doing it?

[JFSinIL]

I agree with Joanne.  Your kids are watching and seeing how Grandma treats you.  Get Out NOW.  Better to live a normal life in a tiny house than live on eggshells in a large one. So not worth it.

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

Sometimes you have to face the reality of "what is" instead of trying to fit everything under the lens of "what should be". 

[Truscifi]

Yep. The whole time I was reading your post, all I could think is "Why? Why are you doing this to yourself?" Move out now.

[Tiberia]

Agreeing with Joanne, too. You're playing her game. Think about your kids, not about her. Set an example for them, and get far, far, away. You'll never win this game. I'm sorry about it all, but you can't reason this out with her; she just won't get it. You can't expect her to be a normally functioning adult. 

 

Sorry you're having to deal with this. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

You can't really have good boundaries with her because you live with her in her house.  She's never giving it to you, "agreement" or not.  I agree with the others.  Get out now.  She will never be the mom you want her to be or even the mom who fulfills the agreement you made.  You know that.  Don't subject yourself or children to her.  You all deserve better.   Get out asap.

[MeghanL]

You asked if you were overreacting..I think no. You are under-reacting. You are paying all the monthly bills for her larger house. You are losing money by having your livestock killed in your absence. 

 

I'm not sure how you still feel the need to pay her way through life when she has ignored all that she agreed to (you having your own space, getting the house when she passes, etc). This is a lose-lose situation and at the end, you could very well be the ones homeless. 

 

Get out now.

[Ameena]

Am I reading correctly that you have paid the taxes? Depending on how long & your states laws - the home could be yours already. I know in some states if you pay someones property taxes for 5 or 7 years, the property becomes yours legally. If not that way in your state, you may be able to sue for the property based on all the improvements, bills paid, etc.

 

 

I would talk with an attorney that knows about elder care & property issues.

 

Assuming Grandma is on SSI - she may qualify for elder care apartments as a lower cost based off her SSI income. They don't consider family income especially in this situation of 2 households in 1 home. Maybe she can afford it now?

[QueenCat]

You may have agreed to live there and pay the bills but she agreed to leave you the house. I'd tell her "sell the house to us now" for this amount, or all deals are off. We will help you when it fits our budget but otherwise, you just need to figure out another way. This isn't working anymore.

[bolt.]

Another option is to try being rude to her. A bit of boundaries with bite can shut down her chatter, and other than the way she talks to you all (and you all stand there listening when she chooses to talk) it sounds like practical side of the house issues are not too bad. Homelessness is a pretty cruddy alternative.

 

Have you tried getting any counsel / coaching in how to do your half of a relationship with a person like that?

[Rebel Yell]

Move out.  I'm guessing if you can afford to pay her bils and mortgage you can afford to pay your own somewhere else.

 

How old are your kids?  Is this really the environment you want them to be in?

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Alessandra]

I am not sure if the fact that you have paid mortgage and property taxes gives you any ownership rights or not, legally speaking. Do you know? It does not sound as though your mother has taken out a second mortgage with you as the lender, or if you have any kind of lien on the property.

 

What is to prevent your mother from leaving the house to you and your sisters, or your sisters contesting a will of she leaves it to you? What if your mother dies intestate? What if she decides to take out a reverse mortgage and spends the cash? What if she simply decides she doesn't want you in the house. What if she remarries, unlikely though that seems now.

 

I would not want to keep putting money into such an uncertain investment. I would consult an attorney to see if you have any rights. Then I would get out. Not trying to be harsh, but you could lose everything. Not to mention the personal cost.

[grantmeawish]

I am surprised you dh has let it go this long. When we had boundary issues with mil, speaking to counsler really helped. It showed dh and I that we are not bad people for keeping a distance. I think our marriage would have suffered if we both kept doing things out of guilt.

[Mommy22alyns]

You can't really have good boundaries with her because you live with her in her house.  She's never giving it to you, "agreement" or not.  I agree with the others.  Get out now.  She will never be the mom you want her to be or even the mom who fulfills the agreement you made.  You know that.  Don't subject yourself or children to her.  You all deserve better.   Get out asap.

 

 

This.  I have dealt with a similar  type, and she'll say anything to get you to do her bidding.  Get out!

[OneStepAtATime]

When you have been paying the taxes, were you just providing her the money or did you actually pay the taxes?  As a pp said, if you have been paying taxes and upkeep for 10 years, and can prove it, you may have legal claim to the house.  You need to look into your state laws...

 

But if it were me I don't think I would have stayed nearly that long.  You are not overreacting.  The situation is awful.  She has a mental illness.  This is not your fault.  But it is also not your responsibility to take abuse for the rest of your life for her mental illness.  She will never get better.  She will never be the mother she should have been.  All that can happen now is you continuing to try to keep your family functioning in an extremely unhealthy emotionally stressful environment...or moving out and starting over.  You have gone way beyond the call of duty to try and keep her from ending up homeless.  I applaud your efforts.  But please try to realistically assess how healthy it would be for your family to remain where you are...you must take care of yourself and your kids and your husband.

 

So very, very sorry that you are dealing with this.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Meadowlark]

I say this gently...why do you have lots of "lol's" when describing this behavior?. Does not seem funny at all to me, but very sad.

[rmtzc2009]

I don't think you are overreacting at all.  I think you are probably so used to this type of craziness that you don't realize how bad it truly is.  (I've been there!  It helps to get outsiders view since your family dynamic (with mom) is not healthy- it can be hard to see that sometimes or to know which way to turn)  A couple thoughts I had...  You entered into this agreement under false pretenses.   You did not know the extent of her mental condition and now even if you could handle her BP she is no longer agreeing to leave the home to you in her will.  Those are deal breakers!  It is kind of you to try and do your best to care for your mom but you must care for your family first.  I think you need to consider all of your family and how it impacts each of you and decide if your willing to stick this out.   You will have a hard time enforcing appropriate boundaries when you essentially live together and under her roof!  I would not put money into the house.  I would save the money to invest one day in a home for YOUR family.  If the situation changes and she does will the home to you, you've got money set aside to do things to the house.   

 

*Enforcing boundaries that will ensure your families emotional well being and doing what is best for your family long term is not being unloving or unkind in any way to your mom.*

 

Best of luck!

[PrairieSong]

You have lived there for ten YEARS? Wow. Just leave. Period. This is so unhealthy for your whole family. I'm sorry your mom is so mentally unstable. I hope she can get help someday, and that you and your family will find healing and peace.

[Heatherwith4]

You're not getting the house. :grouphug: Even if you were getting the house, my advice would be the same. Get the hell out of there. Stat. :grouphug:

[zoobie]

She is using the promise of the house to control you and get you to do her bidding, and it has worked for 10 years. You might as well check with an attorney to see if you have any legal recourse, but then you have to decide if the house is worth continuing to sell your soul to her.

[JumpyTheFrog]

This is nuts. Please move out and don't feel bad about it. She is using you.

[Lara in Colo]

check with a lawyer about your rights as to the house-- if you even were renting from her, you would have more rights than you currently give yourself. 

 

Otherwise, cut your losses now, protect your children from this person (my mother is BPD -- so I know what they do to grandchildren and marriages).

 

You really need some distance in order to be able to "see" her clearly and to be able to stop from letting this disease spread to your children, through you. 

I don't live with my mother and I have a good husband and I still struggle daily to not do to my children what was done to me.

I wake up many days with a new revelation about how she treats people and myself and I have to work through it in my mind.

You need to get away to heal and healing is a LONG LONG road.

 

Lara

 

[lavender's green]

The thing with personality disorders is that they're deeply rooted in one's own personality.  These people don't passively outgrow it.  There's always another storm after some calm.  Always.  And that is never going to change unless they actually work really hard at it, probably with professional help.

 

This isn't a rhetorical question: why are you still there?

 

:grouphug:

[WishboneDawn]

I'm agreeing with everyone else. My family is very normal so from that normal perspective I can tell you that you're current situation is way outside of normal and merits a lit more alarm then you are communicating.

 

See a lawyer about your situation ASAP. don't say a word to your mother about it until you know where you stand.

 

Then make a plan that involves getting out our getting her out.

 

Don't trust her at all.

[aggieamy]

I agree with Joanne.  Your kids are watching and seeing how Grandma treats you.  Get Out NOW.  Better to live a normal life in a tiny house than live on eggshells in a large one. So not worth it.

 

I agree with everyone but this post really sums up an important message.  Your kids are watching all of this.  That is wrong.  You should be subjecting your kids to a life experience like this.  This shouldn't be the situation they get to grow up in.  I would rather raise my children in a tiny apartment where there is peace and calm rather than a mansion where they are surrounded by unhappiness and conflict.  

[FaithManor]

Wow. I am looking at this from a completely different angle than you are asking.

 

GET OUT. Get out, move away, do not engage, "help", support or act on her behalf. It is not worth living there - even if you DID get the house in the "end."

 

That is cray-cray. Why are you doing it?

Joanne, is SPOT ON! You cannot win with BPD but you can continue to be damaged by the living arrangements.

 

She has made her bed and she can suffer the consequences. She'll either be able to keep the house or not and that is not your concern now. Go find a place to rent, don't leave her with your phone number or address. You can swing by once in a while and check up on her if you want or get a cell phone and then only take the phone calls you wish to deal with, but do not get a landline and give her that number.

 

No house is worth it, and trust me, having dealt with narcissists and BPD's in the past, you aren't going to get this house. I've seen this play out. My NPD aunt, after getting her daughter and son-in-law to pay her mortgage and property taxes for YEARS, is leaving the now paid off house to a charity when she leaves just to spite them, and they've been very good to her. My husband's BPD uncle is leaving his to a cousin though this will make his special needs son homeless and this house is set up for his handicap. He's leaving all the money to "friends". Their son and their daughter will get NOTHING. They get their jollies out of putting the screws to people.

 

You can leave and not look back without guilt. She said it, she only cares for her plants. Then let her be alone with her plants.

[Guest]

You're not getting the house.

 

Yup. What Heather said. :grouphug:

 

You are not overreacting, but it is easy to fall into thinking of yourself as "the family overreacter" so I wanted to commend you for having the courage to ask for a reality check.

[shawthorne44]

Honestly, I would skip the Will.  I would demand she sign over the house today, or you will be leaving.  You know she isn't to be trusted.  

I think you have a bit of Stockholm syndrome.  

[Mrs Mungo]

DH/dds and I discussed it this AM and for the sake of (my) sanity we are considering getting rid of everything except the dogs and cats. She wins, LOL. My question is - dh is adamant that we are not putting another penny into this house except to pay the monthly bills. He doesn't even want us to mow her lawn anymore; he says she can pay for it. I will end up doing it though.

 

It isn't going to work for you to continue to live there, but not invest anything in the home or property. You already know that, even if your dh doesn't. Disengage from the emotional battle and keep on with your thing, ignoring her the best you can *or* move. Those are the choices as I see them.

 

eta: I do agree with the others that she'll never actually give you the house. Things don't work that way with these personality types.

[Cinder]

:grouphug:   I have no personal experience with BPD but from what I've learned from others here on the forum who do, it seems there is *no* give-and-take. I hope you're able to break free of what sounds like a toxic situation and get to a place of peace for your own family.

[Guest]

Disengage from the emotional battle and keep on with your thing, ignoring her the best you can

 

Wise words, Mrs. Mungo.

 

Georgia, hold on to this quote and please understand that people who do not have personal experience with this type of personality in a family member aren't going to understand and ARE going to say things that are analagous to, "If her husband hit her, then why didn't she leave him? She must like being hit. People like her make me sick to my stomach/shouldn't be allowed to breed/should be stood up against a wall and shot."

 

This is not a reflection on your character, just a normal reaction of shock and disbelief to a situation that is NOT normal and an attempt to hold on to the illusion that it can't happen to them.

 

Much respect to you for having the courage to post.

[Kevin'sMom]

I never talk about this, but it seems appropriate here. My mother has BPD and sounds very much like yours. I could never live with her for five minutes and I admire that you have done what you have done. How you are standing it, I can't imagine. Find freedom in an unfree world and call it quits. Just because people are old does not mean they are nice, or that their really bad behavior is acceptable or should be accepted or that they should be allowed to harm others with it. My love to you.

[TammyinTN]

If it were me...I would pack up and move out never to return.  :auto:   A big fat see ya later.  

[QuirkyKapers]

Agreeing with all the others.  Get out. Now.  Don't pass go. Don't collect $100 (in this case the house).  Chance of getting the house are slim so I wouldn't stay and put your money in something that most likely won't happen. 

[gardenmom5]

My grandmother was BPD. Even 30 minutes away, she did untold damage. You're hurting your children by staying. You're not getting the house. She's getting what she wants, and you're subsidizing her. Leave. Now.

 

Eta my sister did a lot of debasing herself because she was 'promised' things. Nothing is worth that degradation.

[Kathryn]

Leave now. You aren't getting the house and you're damaging yourself and your loved ones by being around her. One of the best things I ever did for my sanity was cut off contact with my mother who wanted a similar arrangement.

[myfunnybunch]

  How do you tell a BP that they win, but in return they WILL leave you alone 'cause you're DONE and you might have actually grown some some...boundaries, LOL.

 

Doesn't being part of a family mean that you have to have SOME give and take? 

 

Or do her wishes trump since it is her house? 

 

You don't. She will not leave you alone when you set boundaries. She'll probably get worse.

 

In a normal family, yes; but personality disorders are called disorders for a reason.

 

And....even in typically functioning families, the home owner usually has the final say about home matters, but in a healthy family there are healthy boundaries. You're not dealing with a healthy person who has or honors healthy boundaries.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Dysfunctional people create a storm of dysfunction around them, sucking the people around them into their crazy. When you grow up with this kind of dysfunction, it is SO difficult to determine what is normal and healthy and right in relationships. Pat yourself on the back for recognizing she is not healthy and probably never will be. Deep breath. Now that you're really realizing that this isn't going to work the way you'd hoped, figure out what's next.

 

Cat

 

[MomatHWTK]

Understand that you are probably not seeing her behavior from a "normal" perspective because she raised you.  Your Dh will have a more clear view.  No, it is not vindicitive to quit throwing money down a hole.  That money should be used (or saved) for you and your children, not to support someone else. 

[Danestress]

Does your mother own this home and the land?  Maybe she could talk to someone about getting a reverse mortgage, so that she can take care of her own current needs, and you can find a better situation for your own family.  I can't see how it would be worth it to live with her when you end up (I am assuming) paying at least as much as rent would cost you somewhere else.  It sounds like she is a miserable person to live with, and somehow I doubt she's going to mellow with age.

 

Do you really feel you can't move?  I don't think I could tolerate your situation.  It's her house.  If she doesn't want goats and chickens, I guess she rules the roost in her own home.  My experience tells me that she probably feels she's doing you a favor by "letting" you live there.  But you are providing a lot of money, from the sounds of it, and probably helping her with many things. You are putting up with a fair amount of abuse, and I wonder if you really "have" to.   Your position is vulnerable here legally, and you are spending some of what should be the best years of your life dealing with someone who probably is never going to treat you and your family fairly.  I know it's hard because she is getting older, but you don't have to LIVE with her, do you? 

 

 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

It really seems like you want your mom to change and that your behavior as the dutiful daughter will eventually win her over. That will never happen. Your mom will never become the caring, compassionate mother figure you always dreamed of having. You are a grown woman with a husband and family to protect from this twisted dysfunctional situation. Please do the right thing and get out of there. Your family deserves better. You deserve better. (((Hugs)))

[Garga]

She's lying about the house.

 

My grandparents, who were either both NPD or one had rubbed off on the other, sat down, unasked, and told their 6 children that when they were dead their wills were written so that each child would get an equal share of their assests.

 

They were lying. At the time that they sat the kids down and told them they'd receive an equal share their wills had already been written, cutting off all the children except for one. They knew this. They made a point of sitting them down and telling them that they'd get an equal share. It was a set up.

 

Even after they were dead, they wanted to hurt their children, deliberately and with premeditation. And it did hurt them. It took my dad a long time to get over it, even a tiny bit. He was depressed for months. Not because they were dead and he missed them, but at the idea that even at the end they still wanted to hurt their kids.

 

Thankfully I only met these people once in my life. I have enough stories from that one week of my life (I was 8) to cause people to gasp and shake their heads when they hear me tell what they did to me while I visited them. (Nothing illegal--just lying and oh, too much to go into here.)

 

She won't give you the house. These types don't. It truely is a sickness.

 

When I was reading your post I could tell that you have no idea what boundaries are and you have no idea how twisted the relationship is. Since this isn't a JAWM post, then please follow everyone else's advice.

 

Oh--and what if you go to a lawyer and find out the house is already yours? What will you do with your mother? Kick her out on the street? No...think long and hard about what you'll do with that info. You can't stay living with her. Figure out a way to get away. You don't know how bad this sounds to the rest of us. It's completely messed up.

[KungFuPanda]

You put in TEN years without a will or legal agreement of any kind?

[Catwoman]

I don't think it matters whether or not you have any legal rights to the house, because I can already tell you that you're not going to be willing to evict your mother from her own home.

 

She may be manipulative and horrible to live with, but she's still your mother and she's still the one who has always owned that house. She may have promised it to you, but if she's mentally ill, I think it would be wrong to try to hold her to it by hiring an attorney. If you want to give her an ultimatum about it, that's fine, but I'm not excited about the idea of pulling the rug out from under your own mom, no matter how poorly she has behaved or how many promises she has broken.

 

Personally, I think you need to find other living arrangements and then tell Mom you're moving out.

 

Even if she actually signs the house over to you, she won't do it without a life right, so is it really worth it to live with her for what could be many, many years to come just to get the house? It wouldn't be worth it to me, and frankly, I'm shocked and amazed that you've stayed this long. Your dh must be a saint.

 

I'm so sorry things haven't worked out the way you'd planned. :grouphug: