But we don't use textbooks!

[Ravin]

We are transitioning DD to a B&M charter school next year. In lieu of transcripts, they have asked for tests, assessments, and the table of contents of textbooks we have used to determine her grade level.

 

I can send them the psychoeducational eval we had done in the fall, but we don't really use textbooks. At all. I can send the table of contents of the Fred Intermediate books, and her MBtP lit units, and her spelling workbook, and Simply Grammar, but none of those are grade-level based.

 

What would you do?

[Tiramisu]

I had to make up transcripts recently for the same reason. I made one for this year, thinking that was enough, but then I was told they needed them for all the middle school years. Ugh!

 

I gave a name to each subject and listed the books we used for each and made up a grade or stated "ungraded; good progress."  For math, science, or Latin, it wasn't bad because we use a textbook, but for English and history I had long lists of books. I did not include the table of contents just the name of the book.

 

I do make schedules and keep them for each year but I couldn't find them for the previous two years and didn't really feel like going through all the bins in the basement so my lists were a little spotty. I figured what I did was good enough and whatever you will do will be fine, too. Try not to worry too much about it. With the report from the eval, they will have better information about your dd than most of the other kids in the school.

 

[SebastianCat]

I would include a list of every book you read, if you can provide that list.   Also provide lists of any field trips, plays, etc. that were educational in any way.

 

I would also look to see if the curricula you used lists a "scope and sequence" online, then print those.   Similar to this one from LOF Apples:  http://lifeoffredmath.com/lof-apples.php   Even though curricula might not be grade-based, a list of skills covered would likely be sufficient.

[Ellie]

We are transitioning DD to a B&M charter school next year. In lieu of transcripts, they have asked for tests, assessments, and the table of contents of textbooks we have used to determine her grade level.

 

I can send them the psychoeducational eval we had done in the fall, but we don't really use textbooks. At all. I can send the table of contents of the Fred Intermediate books, and her MBtP lit units, and her spelling workbook, and Simply Grammar, but none of those are grade-level based.

 

What would you do?

 

Send them what you have. They know you've been homeschooling, right? Well, there you go. Send them what you have, without apology. It's their job to deal with it.

[Mom22ns]

What about a portfolio? Do you have writing samples? Science, history, whatever you have, I'd give them a portfolio. The TOC from fred books could be useful. Just because you don't have tests or textbooks doesn't mean your child never did any work and that you never assessed it right? Think about what you used to assess your child. Was it that cool project? Report? Do you have a picture? A list of topics studied… you get the idea. Tell them what you covered and if possible show them some samples. Do it your way, just as you homeschooled your way. It will be ok.

[Hunter]

I went through this even back in the 90s. My gifted kid would NOT do multiple choice when "there is no right answer listed". The guy on the schoolboard saw samples of what we were doing, laughed, and  said my son was right, but should not know that yet. He paid for an IQ test, decided my son was smart enough to know that, and then told me I could do whatever I wanted.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[mom31257]

Send them what you have. They know you've been homeschooling, right? Well, there you go. Send them what you have, without apology. It's their job to deal with it.

 

Why is it their job to "deal with it"? As a homeschool parent and teacher, why is not her responsibility to provide what the school is asking for? We go tomorrow to enroll dd for dual enrollment, and I am providing all the school asked me to provide. I think preparing a good transcript with course descriptions and materials used should be a normal request from a school accepting a homeschooled student. For all that school knows, the child has sat in front of a tv all day. 

 

We didn't set out to definitely homeschool all of the kids' school years even though it may turn out that way. I have always used some textbooks and tests because of that fact. Our state requires standardized testing every 3 years, but I do it every other year. I wanted them to be used to it in case they had to go to school at some point. I also felt it was good preparation for the testing required in high school for college entrance. 

[FairProspects]

How concerned are you about placement? More than likely they will just test her and place her in a class by age. If you want a placement other than the general ed, age-based classroom like a 504 plan, IEP, gifted enrichment, advanced math class, or grade skip, then think you will need to provide a lot of extra documentation on materials used. Otherwise I would just send in table of contents and any reports you have.

[Ellie]

Why is it their job to "deal with it"? As a homeschool parent and teacher, why is not her responsibility to provide what the school is asking for? We go tomorrow to enroll dd for dual enrollment, and I am providing all the school asked me to provide. I think preparing a good transcript with course descriptions and materials used should be a normal request from a school accepting a homeschooled student. For all that school knows, the child has sat in front of a tv all day. 

 

We didn't set out to definitely homeschool all of the kids' school years even though it may turn out that way. I have always used some textbooks and tests because of that fact. Our state requires standardized testing every 3 years, but I do it every other year. I wanted them to be used to it in case they had to go to school at some point. I also felt it was good preparation for the testing required in high school for college entrance. 

 

 

She doesn't use textbooks. How can she provide something she doesn't use?

 

She should be able to write assessments, although they might not accept *her* assessments. IDK.

 

If she had asked me first :D I would have suggested that she test her dc with a standardized test like the CAT before trying to enroll her dc. Or not.

 

I would not choose homeschooling methods, or done regular testing,  based on the possibility that my dc *might* some day go to school, but that's me. And I don't believe that standardized testing is all that helpful in preparing for college entrance. I say this as someone whose dc went to college and who were only tested once during their time at home.

[Ravin]

DD has done state testing because the enrichment program she's enrolled in is run by a public school district. They already have her 4th grade test scores; she just took the 5th grade test last week so that won't be available for a while.

 

I'm going to send them the table of contents of the Fred Intermediate books, Simply Grammar, and her lit units. i will also send them the assessment we had done in the fall, and I'm going to see if I can get a transcript of some kind of classes she's taken at the enrichment program--they don't grade them, but it'll at least show what she's been exposed to. That should be plenty, as the grade level we're placing her at is based on her grade level in the enrichment program and (for our final decision when putting her in school) the assessment we had done in the fall.

 

I am not going to do a detailed portfolio when they haven't asked for one. They already have a writing sample (an essay for the application), and will do math testing before school starts for placement anyway.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck, Ravin!  I hope it goes well!

[NotSoObvious]

I'm confused. Are you trying to skip her ahead a grade? 

 

If it's a public school, she just enters based on her date of birth. 

[Ravin]

I'm not trying to skip her ahead per se. By birthdate, she might only be in 5th grade depending on the specific district, but this particular charter school doesn't start until 6th grade, so they don't have an age cutoff, it's just based on coming out of 5th grade.

 

She started K at the enrichment program (which is 1 or 2 days a week) before her 5th birthday (which is in early October). We contemplated holding back and waiting a year, which is part of why we had the psychoeducational assessment done--also because we thought she might have some LD's (apparently she doesn't, accordiing to the assessment, and she's at grade level for 5th grade this year).

 

As a charter, they don't have to take all comers; they have restrictions on who/why they can turn someone away, and a wait list if they fill up.

[NotSoObvious]

I'm not trying to skip her ahead per se. By birthdate, she might only be in 5th grade depending on the specific district, but this particular charter school doesn't start until 6th grade, so they don't have an age cutoff, it's just based on coming out of 5th grade.

 

 

 

Ahhh, ok. 

[NotSoObvious]

In that case, I'll offer that as a teacher, I wouldn't have put much weight in a homeschool textbook like Fred because it would have been SO different from what I was used to. If any of your programs had a scope and sequence, I'd send that.

Otherwise, I'd think test scores and a writing sample would answer most of my questions, especially if they are going to give their own placement test for math. 

 

[Roadrunner]

I would list by topic. For example, Science - Earthquakes, read following books:......, wrote following reports..... Did following labs....

History - American Revolution, materials...... Written assignments....

 

 

Something of the sort for major topics covered should work. They are asking for textbooks because they assume that's how most people study. What they really want is what content you covered (I know this because I am pulling this out of my hat, of course :) ).

[HeatherL]

Out of curiosity, is it Basis that you are enrolling her in?  That's where I hope to send my son when he is older and we are ahead one grade at Eagleridge, so I might end up in the same boat (IF this is where you are talking about)  :)

[Nart]

Charter schools might like to say otherwise but they really do have to take all comers who have applied and if there are more applicants then a lottery is held. Public Charter schools are not allowed to deny students entrance who are below grade level or who have disabilities. You have state test scores last year from fourth grade, she took the test this year as a fifth grader. You are under no obligation to provide anything more. It might be beneficial to provide more information to help in placing her in the appropriate classes but they shouldn't be able to deny enrollment into a PUBLIC school if you don't.

[Tidbits of Learning]

She doesn't use textbooks. How can she provide something she doesn't use?

 

She should be able to write assessments, although they might not accept *her* assessments. IDK.

 

If she had asked me first :D I would have suggested that she test her dc with a standardized test like the CAT before trying to enroll her dc. Or not.

 

I would not choose homeschooling methods, or done regular testing,  based on the possibility that my dc *might* some day go to school, but that's me. And I don't believe that standardized testing is all that helpful in preparing for college entrance. I say this as someone whose dc went to college and who were only tested once during their time at home.

 

Are you currently homeschooling?  When did you last homeschool?  Things change over time and lots of things about school and homeschooling have changed and are changing even more now.  I think the advice to tell a school deal with it is just rude.  I also hope when my kids are graduated that I move on from homeschool boards.  By the way, public schools do not accept the CAT as they feel it does not give accurate scores reflecting the current standards with the CAT test that is available to homeschoolers at the present time.  Most will only accept the IOWA tests as a standard outside of their individual state assessments and placements. :)

[Tiramisu]

I have to write 4 reports per year of what we did per the homeschool regs.  I mostly do not use textbooks.  I list stuff we have covered.  If they want exact books, then list some books you have read.  List topics you have covered. 

 

I like the idea of writing a report each quarter based on what we've accomplished. Even if no one ever sees it, I may be helpful for me.

[Meriwether]

Are you currently homeschooling?  When did you last homeschool?  Things change over time and lots of things about school and homeschooling have changed and are changing even more now.  I think the advice to tell a school deal with it is just rude.  I also hope when my kids are graduated that I move on from homeschool boards.

You are free to move on, of course. Many of us value the experienced homeschoolers who have stuck around since their own kids have graduated. As with every member of this board, you can take or leave their advice.

[Meriwether]

And I can't give my kids either of the IOWA tests. My son took the CAT on Thursday.

[Laurel-in-CA]

As for moving on, when you've spent 20-plus years at this, your experience is valuable and your viewpoint should be considered worth listening to. And let me tell you, it becomes a part of WHO you are, not just what you do with your kids. I happen to think that's a good thing. YMMV.

[Tidbits of Learning]

The advice is always the same on several boards.  It is always tell the school to stuff it just not said in so many words.  There are people that do have to figure things out and are asking legitimately for help to get their kids back in school and telling the school tough is not the answer.

"It's their job to deal with it" is not good advice and really seemed like hey I am a homeschooler, I did my own thing, you deal with it...I don't really care where you place my child now that they need to go back.  The original poster asked for help not tell them to deal with it.

Also, every single place is different in homeschooling rules and things do change.  We have been in the position of having to go back to school and knowing what exactly to submit is important and how to get the school what they are looking for if you didn't school the way the school wants you to report so that your student will be placed properly is important as well.  I wouldn't have said anything if it wasn't that the advice is always tell them to stuff it you are a homeschooler that didn't do x,y,z.  It wasn't helpful advice to the poster.  

It is always antagonistic advice when it is questions like this and honestly would you put your student in the position of being placed wrong in classes by handing stuff to an administration and telling them to deal with it.  That is just bad advice and it was meant to be antagonistic.

Anyone can get someone with a BA to proctor the IOWA test.  It really isn't that hard.  You may have to pay the proctor but the schools accept the Iowa without question.  They wouldn't touch the CAT with a 10 foot pole but had a teacher proctor the IOWA and they accepted it no problem and put kids in advanced classes.  

[bolt.]

In this situation, I would look up (online) exactly what is contained in 'the usual' grade 5. I'd organize my list according to that structure, listing how (what resources) each grade 5 objective was accomplished or exceeded.

[Alte Veste Academy]

The advice is always the same on several boards. It is always tell the school to stuff it just not said in so many words. There are people that do have to figure things out and are asking legitimately for help to get their kids back in school and telling the school tough is not the answer.

"It's there job to deal with it" is not good advice and really seemed like hey I am a homeschooler, I did my own thing, you deal with it...I don't really care where you place my child now that they need to go back. The original poster asked for help not tell them to deal with it.

Also, every single place is different in homeschooling rules and things do change. We have been in the position of having to go back to school and knowing what exactly to submit is important and how to get the school what they are looking for if you didn't school the way the school wants you to report so that your student will be placed properly is important as well. I wouldn't have said anything if it wasn't that the advice is always tell them to stuff it you are a homeschooler that didn't do x,y,z. It wasn't helpful advice to the poster.

It is always antagonistic advice when it is questions like this and honestly would you put your student in the position of being placed wrong in classes by handing stuff to an administration and telling them to deal with it. That is just bad advice and it was meant to be antagonistic.

Anyone can get someone with a BA to proctor the IOWA test. It really isn't that hard. You may have to pay the proctor but the schools accept the Iowa without question. They wouldn't touch the CAT with a 10 foot pole but had a teacher proctor the IOWA and they accepted it no problem and put kids in advanced classes.

Then perhaps you should have attempted to disagree with the advice by stating your opposite opinion instead of questioning why a long-time board member is still here and being antagonistic toward her by making ugly digs.

 

I doubt her advice was meant to be antagonistic, just matter-of-fact.

[boscopup]

When I pulled my son out of school, I gave him placement tests as needed to figure out where he was amd what level curriculum to put him in. The school didn't give me a list of curriculum used and standardized test scores to show where he was (granted, I pulled him a few months before they start testing with the SAT10 - no one uses ITBS around here). Most schools that I've heard of ignore "mommy grades" and give placement tests themselves. I don't see why the school cannot correctly place a child using placement tests. It's not hard. And the school should be the ones with the knowledge of what a child needs to know going into their classes.

[Meriwether]

The advice is always the same on several boards.

 

Anyone can get someone with a BA to proctor the IOWA test.  It really isn't that hard.  You may have to pay the proctor but the schools accept the Iowa without question.  They wouldn't touch the CAT with a 10 foot pole but had a teacher proctor the IOWA and they accepted it no problem and put kids in advanced classes.  

It is a rare thread here where everyone agrees. This topic, even this thread, is not one of those few exceptions.

 

I have a BA. My state accepts the IOWA tests. I just can't purchase one because I live in Iowa. I gave my child the CAT because it is one of the seven or so tests that Iowa accepts.

 

Edited because I don't want to spread misinformation: A fellow Iowan reminded me that I could have gotten the ITBS from Bob Jones. I had some trouble with the website and looked elsewhere. I forgot to go back and retry later.

[Laurel-in-CA]

In CA, if your kiddo is in elementary school, they'll usually just place him/her by grade. You can then ask for gifted testing or talk with the teacher about supplemental materials or, conversely, an IEP. So, in that setting, the school asking for all kinds of documentation is a bit over the top. And it's not the sort of detail they'd receive from another public school...altho' they would probably ask for copies of a report card or standardized test scores. My approach might be the opposite of Ellie's (I tend to overcompensate), as in showing up with a cart full of books. 

 

In the past, when we used straight Sonlight materials, the scope and sequence they provided, along with the book list was quite sufficient to satisfy the charter school we were entering. I have also written to a publisher and asked for their scope and sequence to justify counting something for college prep high school credit (in that case it was Artes Latinae, and they were *quite* happy to help and sent a document several pages long that made the charter school quite happy). But, most charter schools are at least halfway to "getting" homeschooling. I haven't heard that standard classroom schools are quite that understanding or adaptable. And some charters are set up to replicate the classroom down to the level of textbook and take-home worksheets (yuck). So, YMMV. As they say on the college board, ask the school. It might be helpful to say the reading/grade level of the books you used.

[mamajudy]

Are you currently homeschooling? When did you last homeschool? Things change over time and lots of things about school and homeschooling have changed and are changing even more now. I think the advice to tell a school deal with it is just rude. I also hope when my kids are graduated that I move on from homeschool boards. By the way, public schools do not accept the CAT as they feel it does not give accurate scores reflecting the current standards with the CAT test that is available to homeschoolers at the present time. Most will only accept the IOWA tests as a standard outside of their individual state assessments and placements. :)

I tried to ignore this post, but just have to respond. First of all, Ellie never said to tell the school to deal with it; she said it's their job to deal with it. As for rest, quite frankly, you sound like a know-it-all teenager who won't take any advice from your "old fashioned" parents who "just don't understand anything." To scoff at the advice of those of us who have been homeschooling over 20 years and have graduates, college graduates, and graduates of medical school, law school, or graduate school is just plain foolish. You can learn much from the experience of others. And without homeschooling pioneers like Ellie, who paved the way for you, the rights and privileges you have to legally homeschool, dual-enroll, etc., and the ease with which your children may get into college would not exist. If anyone was rude here, I'd say it was you.

[angela in ohio]

nm

[Ravin]

Out of curiosity, is it Basis that you are enrolling her in?  That's where I hope to send my son when he is older and we are ahead one grade at Eagleridge, so I might end up in the same boat (IF this is where you are talking about)   :)

 

It's New School for Arts and Academics.

 

I'm going to give them her evaluation from the fall, enrollment info from Eagleridge, and an explanation that we don't use traditional textbooks for any subject.

[SebastianCat]

In CA, if your kiddo is in elementary school, they'll usually just place him/her by grade. You can then ask for gifted testing or talk with the teacher about supplemental materials or, conversely, an IEP. So, in that setting, the school asking for all kinds of documentation is a bit over the top. And it's not the sort of detail they'd receive from another public school...altho' they would probably ask for copies of a report card or standardized test scores. My approach might be the opposite of Ellie's (I tend to overcompensate), as in showing up with a cart full of books. 

 

 

I live in FL and had a friend who just recently put her kids back into PS, after homeschooling for just under 1 year.   Her children were placed according to age, but the school still wanted to know what they covered this past year.   They specifically asked to see the "textbooks" that she used, and just like the OP, she hadn't really used textbooks.   So she called some friends who had HS'd to ask for advice, and we gave similar advice to what's listed here - provide a list of books read, projects done, and a scope & sequence for the curricula she used.

 

Personally, it's just my nature to document everything we do.   I wouldn't have an issue with the school asking for documentation, and I would provide the same information that I provide each year for our portfolio evaluation.   

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Are you currently homeschooling?  When did you last homeschool?  Things change over time and lots of things about school and homeschooling have changed and are changing even more now.  I think the advice to tell a school deal with it is just rude.  I also hope when my kids are graduated that I move on from homeschool boards.  By the way, public schools do not accept the CAT as they feel it does not give accurate scores reflecting the current standards with the CAT test that is available to homeschoolers at the present time.  Most will only accept the IOWA tests as a standard outside of their individual state assessments and placements. :)

I am very thankful for Ellie's voice on these forums. I don't always agree with her advice but I'm smart enough to value my elders and I'm humble enough to imagine that I can learn from people who shared my beliefs and priorities and lived them out in a different time and place.

 

Ellie mentors me. I mentor women younger and less experienced than myself. I tell my younger friends that one day they will turn and help, too. It's a cycle-of-life thingie that I really think the majority of people can understand and value.

[Starr]

I would ask them to put her in her age appropriate class and if she has trouble deal with it then. They have to accept her and I'm sure the teachers don't want her in first grade!