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Any reason to test (Stanford, ITBS, etc.) above grade level?


Erin
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We've never tested professionally, though we've known for years that our kids are quite bright.  There's just really no reason to label as there are no gifted programs in the area, in-school or out, nor can we afford send-away programs.  

But both of my kids usually score 99%tile in several areas (both my public schooler and my homeschooler) which makes me want something a little more refined, KWIM?

 

Should I just test my homeschooler with a slightly higher-aged test?  Or would that be beneficial at all? 

Maybe I don't really care.  It's not like it's going to do much to change our schooling process...

 

I'm just sitting here looking at the order form for this year's Stanford, puzzling through this, I guess.    :glare:

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FWIW, I've heard that the big talent search GATE programs are pretty generous with their financial aid. So it might be worth having them take the SAT or ACT through talent search (Northwestern's NUMATS does it starting in 6th and there are no geographical restrictions). Having scores on record on a talent search test could also make advocating for your PS student easier if you ever need to do that.

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Unless you really want to push them to see what they can do or need them for something external, no.

 

I am required to test, and frankly I've never gotten anything useful out of it for myself.  To me, it is a bother.  I'm not convinced that testing them any higher would give me anything else than I already know, so I do the grade level test and send it in.  Thankfully my local authorities are fine with college testing, so I only have one to test at home this spring.

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Oh I'm not required to test at all.  

This is purely for my own accountability, whether at grade level or otherwise  But yeah, as mentioned in my first post, I'd like to see what he's capable of (something more refined that 1/100 AT grade level)

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We did ITBS twice and dd scored 99% in most sections. We did the K test when she was 4 because I was a new homeschooler and was unsure if I was doing things right. It was a waste of time because she could already read. After that we didn't take another test until last May when I had her to the ITBS again for practice because I knew we would eventually want to test for Duke. She maxed out again and I saw no value in the results. After getting some feedback here we decided to do explore through NUMATS instead of taking another ITBS for higher grades. I wasn't sure going up a grade or two would tell me much and liked the idea of 1 test that went up to 8th grade level instead of trying to guess which grade to order. We did it through NUMATS because they allow 3rd graders.

 

The report through NUMATS was helpful in that it provided suggested course work for the next several years and a point of reference for me to understand how dd's scores compared with other children who scored the same on ITBS or another standardized testing. I assumed on the earlier ITBS that she did well because we started formal schoolwork early and was therefore ahead of her peers because of her environment. Doing well on Explore showed me it wasn't just that we are ahead in coursework but that she has some natural talent in areas that I need to challenge more.

 

It hasn't changed much in our schoolwork process yet but I will use it as a reference in the future. The cost was similar to doing ITBS in my area so I would make the same choice again. I knew I wasn't going to get any valuable information from the ITBS.

 

 

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If you are not required to test and know your kids score in the 99th percentile anyway, I see little benefit in testing.

 

 

 

But yeah, as mentioned in my first post, I'd like to see what he's capable of (something more refined that 1/100 AT grade level)

 

Then I would simply go ahead and have him take the SAT. Scores from before 9th grade do not have to be reported to colleges. If he does great, you can petition to keep the score and use it for dual enrollment (we did that with DD's 7th grade SAT score and used it for dual enrollment in 10th grade). At least this way the test would serve some purpose.

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Following. We are required to test in 2nd, 4th, and 8th grade. LegoMan will legally be in 2nd grade next year so that will be our first run through. I'm concerned though about giving him a 2nd grade test 1) because we'd really rather he not know how far ahead he really is (2-5 grades depending on subject) and 2) I don't want him to get the impression that tests are super easy and he shouldn't be concerned with giving them any thought at all. Tests are part of life and while I certainly don't want to stress him out, I don't want to go too far the other way either.

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I'm concerned though about giving him a 2nd grade test 1) because we'd really rather he not know how far ahead he really is (2-5 grades depending on subject) and 2) I don't want him to get the impression that tests are super easy and he shouldn't be concerned with giving them any thought at all. Tests are part of life and while I certainly don't want to stress him out, I don't want to go too far the other way either.

 

I would absolutely want a 2nd grader not to be concerned about tests and would much prefer that he is not even aware that it is a "Test" and something to stress about. At that age, he should give it no thought at all.

Is there any way to sneak the 2nd grade test in without him being aware that this is "testing"?

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Following. We are required to test in 2nd, 4th, and 8th grade. LegoMan will legally be in 2nd grade next year so that will be our first run through. I'm concerned though about giving him a 2nd grade test 1) because we'd really rather he not know how far ahead he really is (2-5 grades depending on subject) and 2) I don't want him to get the impression that tests are super easy and he shouldn't be concerned with giving them any thought at all. Tests are part of life and while I certainly don't want to stress him out, I don't want to go too far the other way either.

 

1) He won't know how far ahead he is from an on-grade level achievement test. There are really only 2nd grade level questions on a 2nd grade achievement test. There will be a few questions that are a little more difficult, but not many. Any child who is working above grade level at all will find the test extremely easy, so his experience won't be significantly different from any other advanced child.

 

2) I think that learning achievement tests are fun and enjoyable is a great lesson for a 2nd grader. It will build his confidence and (hopefully) prevent the development of anxiety. I don't think breezing through testing at this age will keep a child from taking testing seriously when he's older.

 

We are required to test annually. I always make a big deal out of how fun and easy it is, and then we go out for a special lunch (with milkshakes!) when it's all done. When my oldest took the Explore for Duke TIP when she was 9, she had no problem taking it seriously or with the leap in difficulty (compared to doing grade level ITBS in the past). We just talked beforehand about the Explore being an out-of-level test. After the testing, she came out with smile on her face and said, "There were some problems on the math section I'd never seen before, but it was so much fun!" Mandatory test-taking can be a positive experience if you spin it that way.

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I would absolutely want a 2nd grader not to be concerned about tests and would much prefer that he is not even aware that it is a "Test" and something to stress about. At that age, he should give it no thought at all.

Is there any way to sneak the 2nd grade test in without him being aware that this is "testing"?

 

 

1) He won't know how far ahead he is from an on-grade level achievement test. There are really only 2nd grade level questions on a 2nd grade achievement test. There will be a few questions that are a little more difficult, but not many. Any child who is working above grade level at all will find the test extremely easy, so his experience won't be significantly different from any other advanced child.

 

2) I think that learning achievement tests are fun and enjoyable is a great lesson for a 2nd grader. It will build his confidence and (hopefully) prevent the development of anxiety. I don't think breezing through testing at this age will keep a child from taking testing seriously when he's older.

 

We are required to test annually. I always make a big deal out of how fun and easy it is, and then we go out for a special lunch (with milkshakes!) when it's all done. When my oldest took the Explore for Duke TIP when she was 9, she had no problem taking it seriously or with the leap in difficulty (compared to doing grade level ITBS in the past). We just talked beforehand about the Explore being an out-of-level test. After the testing, she came out with smile on her face and said, "There were some problems on the math section I'd never seen before, but it was so much fun!" Mandatory test-taking can be a positive experience if you spin it that way.

 

Excellent points! If anyone knows of a national test that doesn't happen to list grade level, I'm all ears. We try to talk about things in terms of numbers or levels (e.g. book 5). A few weeks ago he saw a 1st grade book at Costco, exclaimed "I'm in first grade!" and went to pick it up and look at it. I was barely able to redirect him. I'd just like to keep him ignorant of reality for a while longer.

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We did the ITBS test last summer when DD was just 5, but we tested up with level 6 (post-K or pre-1), because as our first official year homeschooling I wanted an idea of what she knew and any holes that we might have.  It was hugely helpful as I was the test administrator to see where she misunderstood what I said and made mistakes, etc.  It was exactly what I wanted.  That being said, she still scored in the 99th percentile.  This year I am going to give her level 7, which is post-1/pre-2, which is also a year ahead, for the same reason.  She did some of her schooling at a university model church school, and I want a good idea going into next year where she is at.  I am not sure how she will do on the science or history sections as I have no idea what they will test vs. what she learned at the school and the classical style we have done at home.  Honestly I really want to get a good reading level score.  She has gone from reading "1st" grade books last summer to now "5th" grade books (according to scholastic) and I don't know what to teach her with regard to language arts!

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Excellent points! If anyone knows of a national test that doesn't happen to list grade level, I'm all ears. We try to talk about things in terms of numbers or levels (e.g. book 5). A few weeks ago he saw a 1st grade book at Costco, exclaimed "I'm in first grade!" and went to pick it up and look at it. I was barely able to redirect him. I'd just like to keep him ignorant of reality for a while longer.

I believe the PASS from Hewitt is nationally normed and is approved in at least some states: https://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/Testing/tMain.aspx

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Excellent points! If anyone knows of a national test that doesn't happen to list grade level, I'm all ears. We try to talk about things in terms of numbers or levels (e.g. book 5). A few weeks ago he saw a 1st grade book at Costco, exclaimed "I'm in first grade!" and went to pick it up and look at it. I was barely able to redirect him. I'd just like to keep him ignorant of reality for a while longer.

 

The student doesn't see grade levels in the Woodcock-Johnson, and it is nationally recognized.

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We've tested out of level for Standford, and will this year again. It's helpful for, "Gee we need to brush up on capitalization, eh?" type of info, and for just for getting into the swing of test taking. Dd had some odd ideas about how to take a test, to say the least, so I'm glad we've done it.

 

We also never really knew for sure if we'd home school all the way through, and the private schools around here use the Stanford. It would be a lot easier to advocate for higher grade placement if we had the test they use showing ability at the higher grade level.

 

I think will switch to a talent search test next year, though.

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I do because I am required to test certain years, and why spend the money to no benefit?  My 5th grader just took the 8th grade Stanford.  We'll see how he does, but at least I *might* see some differentiation of scores in the subtests, which will give me a better idea of relative strengths.  Something is better than nothing!  even if it usually just corroborates what I already know.  There are sometimes surprises. 

 

On the other hand, my 3rd grader took the on grade level test.  It was his first experience, he is younger for his grade, and he was not an early reader.  After hearing how proud of himself he was that he never used his scrap paper and was the first kid done with every section, I'm concerned the 3rd grade scores will be hard to interpret.  Good grief!  I should have provided some instruction besides "don't worry about it - it's a test of how well Mommy is teaching you." Brownie

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We are required to either test or do a portfolio review every year, so we just did the WJ-III at the local psych's office. the psych is writing up a full report with her findings, which will help us accelerate as needed. If I had just done at level testing, I'm not sure what it would have told me. I can also see where his strengths are within reading and math, which is going to be very helpful when I start ordering curricula . I'm not sure how much ITBS or any other tests are, but the achievement testing was not outrageously expensive at all.

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I like the letsgolearn tests for LA up to grade 12, math up to 7th grade, they also have a few subject math specific tests. They are computer adaptive so the questions get harder and you get a true grade level. I switched from a year ahead ITBS to letsgolearn and got a lot more info from the letsgolearn tests.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/assessments/

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DS8 took the 2nd grade Stanford test at his enrichment program last week. He acted really annoyed at how easy it was. If we do testing at home in the future, I'm inclined to give him the tests for the year we're working on. Or, I like the looks of that Let's Go Learn website. Scoring in the 99th percentile on a grade-level test doesn't tell where your kid is at.

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I've been testing my youngest a year ahead (SAT10) because K-2nd grade the testing was testing basic reading skills and such, which she was way beyond.  I mostly upped the grade level to keep her interested enough to complete the test!  It helped a little (but she still topped out in reading, while math was average.....I already knew this!)  Since you don't test each subject individually, it was the best I could do.   Now that the other kids are reading well, it will be interesting to see if I need to repeat a year of the test to get her back to grade level. (if she doesn't top out, I'll consider it.)  I'd say take your best guess at the level they're working at (on average) and test at that level...you can always adjust the test level you use another year.  (We aren't looking at gifted programs, though...I'm clueless in that regard.)

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