Middle School for Tykes

[Gil]

If you have a small child (5-8) years old who is capable of middle school level work, what do you use?

We are fast approaching the end of elementary level work and I'm thinking of switching to middle school level materials but am at a loss for where to go.

 

We are really working on writing (probably mid-elementary level) but their reading and mathematical reasoning and computation are fairly advanced. They have excellent comprehension, recall and pretty sharp thinking skills too.

[Runningmom80]

I'm trying to figure this out now as well. My ds just had achievement testing and his grade ranges were 6th-college level. He's solidly highly gifted according to his IQ.

Personally, as crazy as it sounds, I'm leaning towards "teaching" Latin and math, and unschooling/child lead learning/project based homeschooling the rest. He's not a kid who would benefit from middle school or highschool texts at this point, he'd be bored and unable to focus. (I fear they'd be too dry.) If left to his own devices, he would build Legos all day, which is not necessarily bad, but I want to guide him to other things.

This is the complete opposite if TWTM, so I doubt I've helped at all with my response, but I thought I would chime in to commiserate. :)

[Crimson Wife]

I found that I really had to adapt the materials to make them less writing dependent.

 

Figuratively Speaking followed by Walch Poetry and Prose Toolbook are good for advanced elementary students.

 

Writer's Inc. Skillsbook and Daily Language Workout are also accessible to bright elementary students.

 

Some people use Math-u-See Algebra 1 and Geometry as pre-algebra/pre-geometry with younger kids and then follow those up with a more rigorous program like Art of Problem Solving.

[Gil]

...

 

This is the complete opposite if TWTM, so I doubt I've helped at all with my response, but I thought I would chime in to commiserate. :)

I don't particularly care for the WTM way of doing and looking at things, myself, so I don't mind in the least if a suggestion isn't WTM-certified, lol. I'm more of a "Do what works, when it works" type of guy.

 

I think we have math covered for a while (I have plenty of resources up to the collegiate level and can teach up to that level). Technically we have a near-infinite supply of books from the library but I can't seem to make it 'clear' to me what the heck I'm supposed to be doing exactly.

 

 

 

[Gil]

I found that I really had to adapt the materials to make them less writing dependent.

 

Figuratively Speaking followed by Walch Poetry and Prose Toolbook are good for advanced elementary students.

 

Writer's Inc. Skillsbook and Daily Language Workout are also accessible to bright elementary students.

 

Some people use Math-u-See Algebra 1 and Geometry as pre-algebra/pre-geometry with younger kids and then follow those up with a more rigorous program like Art of Problem Solving.

Thank you for these suggestions as writing is their one "weakness" but we are working on it. I am not sure about MUS. I looked into a few years ago and I just didn't get it at that time. Do you know how the modeling translates at the Algebra level? Personally I have a crap ton of math stuff already so I should probably make do with what I've got. Now that they are more advanced my boys are like...manipulative-averse, or something. They get huffy if they have to model out 'baby' math.

 

They don't mind modeling an advanced problem, but building 3*18? Heavens no! :huh:

[Runningmom80]

My ds was manipulative averse for a while, he doesn't seem to mind it now, I think he's decided it's better than writing out the math. Lol

[Crimson Wife]

Another resource I was just looking at is "How to Read Literature Like a Professor for Kids" by Thomas Foster: http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Literature-Like-Professor/dp/0062200852

 

I decided to get the adult version for my rising 7th grader (not 100% sure when I'll use it) and hold off on the kids' version for my rising 3rd grader because there are apparently references to s*x in it. But I realize I'm a lot more conservative than many parents today, so I figured I'd mention it in case someone else finds it appealing.

[Gil]

Another resource I was just looking at is "How to Read Literature Like a Professor for Kids" by Thomas Foster: http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Literature-Like-Professor/dp/0062200852

 

I decided to get the adult version for my rising 7th grader (not 100% sure when I'll use it) and hold off on the kids' version for my rising 3rd grader because there are apparently references to s*x in it. But I realize I'm a lot more conservative than many parents today, so I figured I'd mention it in case someone else finds it appealing.

What kind of sex references exactly? I will be doing more puberty-ed type stuff with the boys this summer because my guys are showing more interest in their bodies. I don't anticipate needing to do too much sex-focused ed for another year or so though.

 

ETA: I'm more of a "I don't mind if they hear facts, but I want them to hear them from me first." type of parent, so I'm not sure how I rate on a liberal vs conservative scale.

[Dmmetler]

We have done a lot orally. I've also found the online lit ahd history classes (Athenas/G3) to be a good fit because it's challenging content with complex vocabulary and themes and lots of nuance, but ALL the kids are fairly young GT kids who are advanced, so they're being analyzed from that mindset. What I found when I tried a middle school course was that a lot of the books were selected to appeal to kids who were in a middle school mindset (a lot of the historical fiction had a strong romantic component, for example), that at age 6-7-8 my DD just didn't understand yet. I could have filtered through and found my own list, but it's really well to let Athena's and G3 do the choosing for us, and the instructors seem sensitive of the emotional needs of younger kids as well. At this point, unless I see a serious ramping up in the writing, I'm not willing to consider them a high school credit course, but I have NO trouble considering them as a good GT option that provides some discussion and give and take and social communications practice for my DD.

 

For math, the biggest struggle was learning to work in a separate text/notebook vs a workbook, and just building stamina.

 

We've also worked a lot on writing stamina and just practice. Her research has pushed that.

 

Online tools that are self-paced have been popular here, too, as have just plain big stacks of books. She may go from a kids' science book to a college textbook or a Coursera class or a teacher's online notes or the virtual labs publishers put out for college textbooks (DD is the one person in her mentor's classes who apparently actually logs in and does them when they're NOT formally assigned-but DD also doesn't have access to the college microbio lab for several hours/week).

 

I will also add-I don't consider my DD's work to be "middle school" or "high school". I figure she's 9, she's in 4th grade-it's simply that her 4th grade course content is adapted to her needs. I plan to stay in that mindset until and unless she feels a need to enter college early. I'm just making sure we have all our testing ducks in a row so she has the documentation when/if she needs it.

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

What kind of sex references exactly? I will be doing more puberty-ed type stuff with the boys this summer because my guys are showing more interest in their bodies. I don't anticipate needing to do too much sex-focused ed for another year or so though.

 

ETA: I'm more of a "I don't mind if they hear facts, but I want them to hear them from me first." type of parent, so I'm not sure how I rate on a liberal vs conservative scale.

I haven't read the book. I just looked through the Amazon reviews and several mentioned that there were references to s*x.

 

With my oldest DD, I had "the talk" on her 8th birthday because many girls these days do enter puberty at 8 or 9 so I wanted her to be prepared in case it happened (thankfully it didn't until she was 10). Boys mature more slowly so I'm thinking DH can have "the talk" with DS maybe on his 10th birthday unless there's a reason to do it sooner.

[sunnyday]

I mostly just skimmed the book, but for example Twilight is on the reading list and there's a whole chapter about how any story that involves vampirism or blood-sucking is a metaphor for sex. I think a couple other places use similar connections in a "nudge-nudge, heheheheh" young teenage immature humor kind of way, trying to hook that demographic by talking about their favorite subject. It might have mentioned all the sex in Chaucer? I don't really remember now.

[jar7709]

What kind of sex references exactly? I will be doing more puberty-ed type stuff with the boys this summer because my guys are showing more interest in their bodies. I don't anticipate needing to do too much sex-focused ed for another year or so though.

 

 

My 9yo 3rd grader loves How to Read Literature Like a Professor for Kids.  The only references to sex that I've seen are in the chapter on themes in vampire stories.  IMO, it's a short, well-done passage, pointing out how sex and power are intertwined in those sorts of stories.  Of course all kids are different and DS is on the mature side for such ideas but it is fine for us.  The author does discuss many books that DS isn't ready to read yet, but that's fine for us too...DS has a passion for books and reading and self-selects pretty well.  To answer the OP, this books is an excellent example of exactly the type of resource I look for for DS--advanced in concepts that peers might not be ready for yet, a gentle introduction but full of rich ideas that can spark good discussions.  He still doesn't have much physical writing stamina, but imo there are lots of ways around that.

[JennW in SoCal]

 Technically we have a near-infinite supply of books from the library but I can't seem to make it 'clear' to me what the heck I'm supposed to be doing exactly.

 

Perhaps I can help with this particular question.

 

Until my kids were in high school I pretty much unschooled anything other than math, logic and the nuts and bolts of writing -- grammar, spelling, and actual writing.  Almost everything else came from that wonderful near-infinite supply of library books and videos.  I didn't do much of anything other than make sure there was an endless, fresh supply of materials on anything that interested my kids, and I always included in that supply books and documentaries of my choosing.  All we did was read and talk. Seriously.  We read aloud, they read independently, I read some of what they were reading, and we talked about all of it -- fiction and non-fiction alike.  We talked about what we liked and didn't like, the characters, the plot points, the writing itself.  We would wonder aloud about questions unanswered in books, debated our perceptions of the author's bias.  I used these books for working on writing skills, whether it was copy work, dictation or narrations, or diagramming sentences.  They did lots of crafts and science projects they found in library books.

 

There were other sources of learning -- museums, lectures, plays, travel and such.  Listening to NPR in the car.  But regardless of the source, we talked about all of it in the same manner.   

 

It worked well.  Learning how to craft an essay arose from all our discussions -- they took our conversations, edited and fine-tuned their own thoughts and opinions then presented it in formal written language.  It also worked well because they were the kind of students who were always engaged in what they were learning and who have remained interested in the greater world around them -- attributes they often found lacking in their college peers.  Most importantly to me, at least, we still share books, still discuss interests, and they have both thanked me for this particular aspect of their education.  

 

I used the Well Educated Mind as a resource for discussing literature, The Lively Art of Writing for writing essays.  Some of the books and materials that are widely used now were published too late for me to use in our homeschool journey.

 

Does that help at all?

 

ETA  I forgot to mention that by simply reading and talking there was no need to worry about grade level.  I did have to be careful on content with their reading, for a variety of reasons -- I was mindful of what they were ready for -- but there are so many wonderful books out there that it really wasn't a problem.   And at least one of my boys like re-reading as an older teen the classics he had read as an elementary student.  He really found his fresh perspective fascinating, loved having a deeper understanding of the works.

[regentrude]

Until my kids were in high school I pretty much unschooled anything other than math, logic and the nuts and bolts of writing -- grammar, spelling, and actual writing.  Almost everything else came from that wonderful near-infinite supply of library books and videos.  I didn't do much of anything other than make sure there was an endless, fresh supply of materials on anything that interested my kids, and I always included in that supply books and documentaries of my choosing. 

There were other sources of learning -- museums, lectures, plays, travel and such.  Listening to NPR in the car.  But regardless of the source, we talked about all of it in the same manner.   

 

I did not start homeschooling until in middle school, but then used a similar in approach. Aside from math and foreign language, we did not use any programs or scripted curricula before high school - just books, documentaries, museums, travel etc. Honestly, I have not seen one piece of middle school "curriculum" that I would want to subject my kids to.

[8filltheheart]

Aside from math and foreign language, we did not use any programs or scripted curricula before high school - just books, documentaries, museums, travel etc. Honestly, I have not seen one piece of middle school "curriculum" that I would want to subject my kids to.

Same here.

[Gil]

I mostly just skimmed the book, but for example Twilight is on the reading list and there's a whole chapter about how any story that involves vampirism or blood-sucking is a metaphor for sex. I think a couple other places use similar connections in a "nudge-nudge, heheheheh" young teenage immature humor kind of way, trying to hook that demographic by talking about their favorite subject. It might have mentioned all the sex in Chaucer? I don't really remember now.

Wow, what does it say about me as a parent that the fact that Twilight is considered literature concerns me more than the possible discussions of sex?

Also, from a literary standpoint how the heck does vampirism/blood-sucking relate to sex? Who the heck connects blood-lust/desire to kill with sex? When my boys are ready for that talk it would never have crossed my mind that I'd be giving them the Birds and the Blood talk. Sheesh!

 

Huh. I took a look at those reviews and I see where CrimsonWife is coming from. I'll check and see if this book is at the library and take a more in-depth look at it that way.

 

Perhaps I can help with this particular question.

 

Until my kids were in high school I pretty much unschooled anything other than math, logic and the nuts and bolts of writing -- grammar, spelling, and actual writing.  Almost everything else came from that wonderful near-infinite supply of library books and videos.  I didn't do much of anything other than make sure there was an endless, fresh supply of materials on anything that interested my kids, and I always included in that supply books and documentaries of my choosing.  All we did was read and talk. Seriously.  We read aloud, they read independently, I read some of what they were reading, and we talked about all of it -- fiction and non-fiction alike.  We talked about what we liked and didn't like, the characters, the plot points, the writing itself.  We would wonder aloud about questions unanswered in books, debated our perceptions of the author's bias.  I used these books for working on writing skills, whether it was copy work, dictation or narrations, or diagramming sentences.  They did lots of crafts and science projects they found in library books.

 

There were other sources of learning -- museums, lectures, plays, travel and such.  Listening to NPR in the car.  But regardless of the source, we talked about all of it in the same manner.   

 

It worked well.  Learning how to craft an essay arose from all our discussions -- they took our conversations, edited and fine-tuned their own thoughts and opinions then presented it in formal written language.  It also worked well because they were the kind of students who were always engaged in what they were learning and who have remained interested in the greater world around them -- attributes they often found lacking in their college peers.  Most importantly to me, at least, we still share books, still discuss interests, and they have both thanked me for this particular aspect of their education.  

 

I used the Well Educated Mind as a resource for discussing literature, The Lively Art of Writing for writing essays.  Some of the books and materials that are widely used now were published too late for me to use in our homeschool journey.

 

Does that help at all?

That was tremendously helpful, thank you. This approach seems like it could be feasible for us and it is encouraging to know that someone else has already had success with this model. Thank you for sharing this.

 

ETA  I forgot to mention that by simply reading and talking there was no need to worry about grade level. Another bonus! I can save mad $$$ I did have to be careful on content with their reading, for a variety of reasons -- I was mindful of what they were ready for -- but there are so many wonderful books out there that it really wasn't a problem. Yeah, this is what I find myself doing. I also have to balance my younger sons blatant curiosity and frank nature against what is developmentally appropriate for his slightly older brother because whatever Pal hears will be repeated to his brother (usually with some mild-embellishment). However, they are both just little boys a melodrama on "teen-issues" is why I find myself sticking mostly to picture books and older chapter books. I hesitate more and more with modern books at the 6th-12th grade level because it seems like everyone has a scandal/secret/double life that resolves around drugs, sex, alcoholism, sexual orientation/identity/parents etc...(Don't kids ever get tired of this stuff?)      And at least one of my boys like re-reading as an older teen the classics he had read as an elementary student.  He really found his fresh perspective fascinating, loved having a deeper understanding of the works.

[JennW in SoCal]

I once heard an author on the radio talking about the challenge of finding books appropriate for his own precocious young readers.  His solution was setting a rule that his kids could read anything published before 1960!  Great rule except that my local youth librarian purged all those wonderful old books and replaced them with angst-filled teen-issue garbage.  When I went looking for a specific title once she tut-tutted that the language was too old fashioned for kids today.  

 

So on the one hand, yes the library is great, and just reading is great, but on the other hand finding appropriate books can be frustratingly difficult!

 

 

[Gil]

I once heard an author on the radio talking about the challenge of finding books appropriate for his own precocious young readers.  His solution was setting a rule that his kids could read anything published before 1960!  Great rule except that my local youth librarian purged all those wonderful old books and replaced them with angst-filled teen-issue garbage.  When I went looking for a specific title once she tut-tutted that the language was too old fashioned for kids today.  

 

So on the one hand, yes the library is great, and just reading is great, but on the other hand finding appropriate books can be frustratingly difficult!

 

Wow, lol. Yup, I can definitely see that! Good thing we have a good selection of Used Book Stores in our area. There are 4 different ones in town and most of them sell older books for .10-1.00 so thanks! I'll keep this in mind.

 

[SierraNevada]

Absolutely, old books are where we find age and content appropriate melded together. The cool thing is that you can find a lot of stuff for free for download for tablets.

[Dmmetler]

I once heard an author on the radio talking about the challenge of finding books appropriate for his own precocious young readers.  His solution was setting a rule that his kids could read anything published before 1960!  Great rule except that my local youth librarian purged all those wonderful old books and replaced them with angst-filled teen-issue garbage.  When I went looking for a specific title once she tut-tutted that the language was too old fashioned for kids today.  

 

So on the one hand, yes the library is great, and just reading is great, but on the other hand finding appropriate books can be frustratingly difficult!

 

Buy a cheap kindle  and download all those classic e-books.  Definitely worth the price.

[CrunchyGirl]

Wow, what does it say about me as a parent that the fact that Twilight is considered literature concerns me more than the possible discussions of sex?

 

 

Well if it helps, that was my primary concern as well :)

 

And following because we are going to run out of elementary school for math, spelling, and literature here shortly.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I have the same problem with middle school curriculum. So much of it us just exposure level drivel. Anyway, we jumped right into supposedly high school level and just went at a snail's pace, or he would plow through it for a while then abandon it for a bit. In general, it allows him to get what he needs without feeling overwhelmed. He can stop when he wants to, but while learning he is actually getting content. If at any point the material becomes boring, repetitive, or for some reason lack luster due to the text, he has free reign to tell me and we try to find something else. Many graphics novels were a total bust for these reasons. I thought he would love them, but he was completely put off.

 

We do quite a lot with games and apps as well. Shepard Software is great. He can openly explore. I search out free and low cost apps for foreign languages, geography, chemistry, and the like. They lighten up dense information and present it in fun, but challenging ways. Netflix movies, series, and documentaries also elevate the fun factor so very needed at this age.

 

YouTube is fantastic for audio versions of classics. We also listen to a lot of lectures from the Teaching Company and iTunesU. Both allow us to pause and talk, clarify, or google something quickly. We do quite a lot orally. It has really helped build our relationship and keep communication open.

 

I still type for him when he has a lengthy essay or such to write, but then he is required to correct it, edit, and revise his narration. He has the ideas in his head, but cannot get them out fast enough to alleviate the frustration. This is rapidly changing as he grows up. His stamina with writing has jumped leaps and bounds in the last seven months.

 

Middle school is really a time of exploration. My kid just got there a bit faster than some others. So, I try to let him explore in his own way without giving him predigested information. As long as he is openly talking with me, he can find his own answers.

[Gratia271]

If you have a small child (5-8) years old who is capable of middle school level work, what do you use?

We are fast approaching the end of elementary level work and I'm thinking of switching to middle school level materials but am at a loss for where to go.

 

We are really working on writing (probably mid-elementary level) but their reading and mathematical reasoning and computation are fairly advanced. They have excellent comprehension, recall and pretty sharp thinking skills too.

 

Like others here, we did not use curricula (beside math and foreign languages) per se.  Most things were interest led with documentaries, copious book selections, museum visits, projects, and some travel.... with lots of discussion and hands-on-inquiry.  With my firstborn, I had some anxiety about this "unorthodox" approach, but it has turned out well.  One of the greatest benefits from this approach is that these kids still possess "child-like" imagination and zeal for learning. 

 

[acurtis75]

Thank you for these suggestions as writing is their one "weakness" but we are working on it. I am not sure about MUS. I looked into a few years ago and I just didn't get it at that time. Do you know how the modeling translates at the Algebra level? Personally I have a crap ton of math stuff already so I should probably make do with what I've got. Now that they are more advanced my boys are like...manipulative-averse, or something. They get huffy if they have to model out 'baby' math.

 

They don't mind modeling an advanced problem, but building 3*18? Heavens no! :huh:

FWIW...we use MUS and are currently in pre-algebra. DD didn't use the manipulatives much after place value as part of her lessons. In the early days (addition, subtraction, & multiplication) she played with the blocks on her own a lot and would say "did you know 3 and 7 make 10" and things like that but she never used it as part of the formal lesson. She pulled out the blocks with a lesson maybe 1 time from division through decimals.

 

 

We are in the pre algebra book now so I'm can't answer for algebra. She used them for the first time last week on chapter 26 to model multiplying binomials. She did this mostly because it looked fun to her but we found it very helpful in understanding "why" the answers were correct. I can't speak to the other lessons because I didn't watch the dvd with her every time but at least for that lesson they were an asset.

 

Basically, I never made her model problems but she used them on her own or played with them occasionally. Usually watching the DVD with the explanation was enough for her to understand.

[serendipitous journey]

Some people use Math-u-See Algebra 1 and Geometry as pre-algebra/pre-geometry with younger kids and then follow those up with a more rigorous program like Art of Problem Solving.

 

I believe you that this has worked for other people ... just as another data point, I detested MUS Algebra with A. (then 7)  We were much happier in Singapore's DM7, and/or Galore Parks So You Really Want to Learn Maths books.  However, if the concern is really just the manipulatives I would not let that stop you -- I found them optional at that level. 

 

I did use some earlier MUS materials with A, who benefited from the clean pages and general approach.