Math on the Level

[Saraswati]

Is anyone familiar with this program? 

 

https://www.mathonthelevel.com

 

Pros? Cons? 

[Mom2OandE]

I use it. I love it. I love that math can be taught in a very natural way and not be non stop worksheets and problems. With that said, it's very, very parent intense. In fact, we've taken a break the past few months because life has gotten in the way. With that said we will likely go back to it in the next month or so.

[kolamum]

I owned it, but wasn't keen on it. However..

 

When my eldest was in 2nd grade we had meltdowns every day over math. It was insane to me, & absurd, but I'd been looking at "living math" & after much research & hesitation bit the bullet & went that way. By the time I heard of MOTL & knew about it, then obtained it I'd been "free flying" for well over a year & was in a lovely groove. I felt it hindered what I was trying to do & how I wanted to accomplish it. I think if you need hand holding for teaching outside of the box in regards to maths the system could be REALLY beneficial for you, all be it VERY expensive. 

 

We remained in our "living math" phase until my eldest was in 5th grade, then I felt it was time to test him & see what if any gaps we had. Aside from the fact that we hadn't mastered long division he was on target & we eased right back into math curriculum & settled with MUS which works amazingly well for us. So it really depends on the person. If you're looking for scripted math lessons about games & hand holding, you will not find it in those books. If you're looking for ideas to help spur you forward in regards to a living math education you WILL find that.

there are, or at least use to be, lots of helps available from the author to get you set up & rolling forward with things. So you could also look at those if needed/wanted. :)

[Hunter]

I own it.

 

I have too many equally good curricula, and it prevents me from settling down with any one of them.

 

I bought MOTL right before my life took a nosedive and I was just NEVER home for almost a year. There were just too many books to lug around and I didn't have enough time at home with them all at once to start planning. It got tossed aside and never really given it's chance. I've only been home more often for about a month now, and it's just not calling my name. I paid so much for it though, and wanted it for so long, I'm holding on to it for awhile.

 

For my own self-education I'm redoing Saxon Algebra 1 second editon, and for my beginner tutoring students I'm just using a bit of How to Tutor, or continuing whatever bits I've been using with them in the past. I'm pretty settled on HTT for the beginners and Saxon for Algebra 1, but am still undecided about in between. I was thinking Saxon 54-87 if I can get the answer keys to the older 2nd editions, but barring that, I'm looking at Professor B or maybe even MOTL or the Japanese workbooks or...

[Saraswati]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I've got a better picture of the program now.

 

My eldest really struggles with math, and I've tried a couple different programs with her. We finally settled on TT, and though she likes it, and gets her math done without complaint, I just don't think she's getting enough from it. I don't like feeling like I'm disconnected from her math lessons - she likes to work alone on the computer. She does her lesson, and When I try to get her to explain, I don't get much out of her. And though she gets good grades, I can see confusion when we try to work through math scenarios, even though she's already learned the concepts in TT.

 

I'm debating whether I should let her go, since she's getting on and learning basic concepts, or try to change her to something that's going to improve her abiltity to understand the point of the concepts she's covering.

[Hunter]

I think people expect WAY too much out of average children in being able to apply and explain math. WAY too much. It takes years and years of just messing around and completing some algorithms and getting past that stage of math, before being able to go back to an earlier level to explain and apply it.

 

Explaining and applying are not grammar stage skills. Why is it the default expectation that grammar stage students can explain and apply math of all things?

 

If she is happy with TT, I'd stick with it.

 

 

[Cheryl in CA]

I use it. I love it. I love that math can be taught in a very natural way and not be non stop worksheets and problems. With that said, it's very, very parent intense. In fact, we've taken a break the past few months because life has gotten in the way. With that said we will likely go back to it in the next month or so.

 

I use it and love it too :)  I actually bought it several years ago when it first came out (I think late 2007 or early 2008, can't remember exactly) and sold it because the dd I was trying to use it with wanted tons of worksheets (she has since reformed of her "evil" ways ;) ) and we added another child to our family (even less time for a teacher intensive curriculum).  This time I bought it with my youngest in mind and ended up using (and loving) it with my 3 youngest children (the older 2 are far too old, LOL).

[kolamum]

You know, Autumn, we had that problem too with our younger son. He could do the math on the computer & was getting decent grades with it, BUT there was a huge disconnect. If handed a worksheet from the lesson he struggled a bit with it & when we tried math outside of TT we noticed a bigger disconnect. I hated to move him because he DID enjoy the programme & he was obviously learning something from it. However, the niggling feeling of disconnect resonated with me & we ended up moving him to Math U See & are very happy with the results. I don't expect him to always explain the WHY of a math problem, but knowing that he understands which operation to use & why is important. It's what gets them through those word problems & helps them apply math to everyday living. 

 

In all fairness I probably should have continued with "living math" with him for a while longer before putting him in a curriculum, but moving the older I just moved the younger too. Having said that he's a visual learner & once he sees how something is done he's apt to remember it. He's also really good at rote memorisation. All in all MUS is a lovely fit for him & he does enjoy it. It's a wee bit harder for placement if you haven't started with it as your first math curriculums. We had to back him up due to the consistent errors of borrowing & not really grasping WHY he needed to borrow. He tried to flip the numbers because it was okay to do it with addition. ;) Anyway, he flew through Beta {subtraction} because he knew HOW to subtract but just struggled with borrowing. He's now flown through Gamma, which I expected because he had the majority of his multiplication facts memorised. He'll finish that book, Lord willing, next week & prepare to start Delta {division} in Term 2 which commences at the end of this month.

 

I will say that MUS teaches in the same way I was teaching. Hands on, visually, & non-spiral approach. I never considered looking at a non-spiral math book figuring it would bring failure to my kids. It was a "duh" moment when I realised I was teaching them differently then I expected the curriculum to work. Ha! Anyway, I know you didn't ask about that curriculum, but I'm throwing it out there for you incase you want to investigate. AND, FWIW, it can be done without teacher intervention too. My boys are good at grabbing the DVD, watching the lecture, & doing the lessons as I schedule them. If they have any questions they come to me before doing the page, but generally they are good to go. I liked that it helped them be independent, which was something TT did for them as well. Also, because they only work on one mathematical operation per book it allows them to fully concentrate on all aspects of that before throwing something new at them. That was EXACTLY how I was teaching my kids!! Seriously, had I not been so stubborn & looked at MUS prior to starting with something else I probably would have been using them all along. ;)

[Saraswati]

You know, Autumn, we had that problem too with our younger son. He could do the math on the computer & was getting decent grades with it, BUT there was a huge disconnect. If handed a worksheet from the lesson he struggled a bit with it & when we tried math outside of TT we noticed a bigger disconnect. I hated to move him because he DID enjoy the programme & he was obviously learning something from it. However, the niggling feeling of disconnect resonated with me & we ended up moving him to Math U See & are very happy with the results. I don't expect him to always explain the WHY of a math problem, but knowing that he understands which operation to use & why is important. It's what gets them through those word problems & helps them apply math to everyday living.

Yes, exactly this! Thank you very much for your comment - and for including your success with MUS. I am going to take a look at it! TT has helped her to get a grasp of the basics, but it's time for her to have something more. I want her to be able to play with math and experiment with it, so she can dig a little deeper and start making connections. I'm just in need of something to guide me along to get us started. 😊

[Cheryl in CA]

Yes, exactly this! Thank you very much for your comment - and for including your success with MUS. I am going to take a look at it! TT has helped her to get a grasp of the basics, but it's time for her to have something more. I want her to be able to play with math and experiment with it, so she can dig a little deeper and start making connections. I'm just in need of something to guide me along to get us started. 😊

 

We too love MUS and I use it as a resource with MOTL.

[bluedarling]

Wow, I'm actually surprised by all the positive reviews.  I tried it and didn't like it....maybe I would have liked it if I didn't have 4 kids.  I couldn't keep up with it, and found myself often without a plan for the day.  Too teacher intensive.  Math U See was a better fit for us.

[Saraswati]

Wow, I'm actually surprised by all the positive reviews.  I tried it and didn't like it....maybe I would have liked it if I didn't have 4 kids.  I couldn't keep up with it, and found myself often without a plan for the day.  Too teacher intensive.  Math U See was a better fit for us.

 

 

Thanks for replying. It's something I've been wondering about this program - how difficult it will be to implement with three children, all at different levels.

[Cheryl in CA]

Thanks for replying. It's something I've been wondering about this program - how difficult it will be to implement with three children, all at different levels.

 

I am using MOTL with 3 children (K, 1st, and 4th grades).  I have 5 children but my older kids are too old for MOTL.  I'm finding it a whole lot easier to use MOTL with 3 children than I did with 1 child plus a baby and toddler 5 years ago ;)  For me, it took more time in the beginning getting it set up and in a groove.  Now that I've found my groove it's been pretty smooth.  However, I think this is one area that's likely to vary from person to person.

[Saraswati]

I am using MOTL with 3 children (K, 1st, and 4th grades). I have 5 children but my older kids are too old for MOTL. I'm finding it a whole lot easier to use MOTL with 3 children than I did with 1 child plus a baby and toddler 5 years ago ;) For me, it took more time in the beginning getting it set up and in a groove. Now that I've found my groove it's been pretty smooth. However, I think this is one area that's likely to vary from person to person.

â˜ºï¸ Thank you! My dd is getting ready to finish up her current level of TT in the next couple of weeks, so we've got a lot of options to look through.

[Walking-Iris]

Bumping this thread because I have a question about MOTL.

 

How do you implement it? Are you meant to work through one book at at time, or skip around? I don't get enough from the samples on the webpage to give me a good idea of how it is used.

 

I've been looking at it lately.  I already have Math Mammoth 1-3 and the Miquon books, would MOTL be something I could use and the MM/Miquon be the extra practice. (Since these books don't come with any consumable workbooks, correct?)

 

 

[Hunter]

You skip around. That was my biggest problem. I was so mobile right after I bought it that I couldn't juggle multiple books for lesson planning and teaching. Now that things have stabilized, I already was doing other things, and just have not cared to switch up to something new.

[Walking-Iris]

You skip around. That was my biggest problem. I was so mobile right after I bought it that I couldn't juggle multiple books for lesson planning and teaching. Now that things have stabilized, I already was doing other things, and just have not cared to switch up to something new.

 

Hunter...I think you have great posts about curriculum. I would love your help with my half-formed idea.

 

I can see MOTL not being that efficient for someone who has to travel to get to students.

 

But say you were mostly just a SAHM with three...11, soon to be 7, soon to be 4. Would you find it useful in that situation?

 

My husband and were discussing it. We figure we could easily spend that much, if not more, buying three different grade levels/supplements each year.

 

I've been having uneasy thoughts about math lately. Keeping up with buying Key To books (and any other workbook type supplement) is cost prohibitive, Saxon every year is pricey even used. I know I could use them again with my littles, but my oldest isn't inspired by using them. Programs like Math in Focus and Singapore have 4 books to buy each year and then if you want/need extra practice you need to buy the extra books. And then buy the consumable books again.

 

We own various math activity books, the NTK books, math "living books" and I have online access for math activities etc.

 

I've already streamlined my lang arts into a Bravewriter lifestyle. 

 

My history and science philosophy and books have also been streamlined.

 

I've been seriously thinking about a similar approach to math. I could print from MM if need be. I have a ton of math manipulatives, facts practice reproducibles, CTP math puzzle books, etc. I have Right Start games and I'll always have a full set of Miquon available.

 

I'm just rambling. My ideas aren't fully formed on this. 

 

The MOTL gives some hand holding correct? There's some suggested sequences, record keeping ideas.

 

I'm wondering if it's like "Bravewriter for math." I like the programs I've used, but I'm weary of textbooks and worksheets. 

 

I'm just wondering if it is truly possible to do K-8 in this freeform way.

[OneStepAtATime]

..

[OneStepAtATime]

Bumping this thread because I have a question about MOTL.

 

How do you implement it? Are you meant to work through one book at at time, or skip around? I don't get enough from the samples on the webpage to give me a good idea of how it is used.

 

I've been looking at it lately.  I already have Math Mammoth 1-3 and the Miquon books, would MOTL be something I could use and the MM/Miquon be the extra practice. (Since these books don't come with any consumable workbooks, correct?)

I will preface this by saying we are not currently using MOTL.  But I love this program.  I just had special needs kids and didn't understand all of their needs when I tried to implement it the first time.  I still use some aspects of it, though, and do not intend to sell it.

 

You do skip around among the books.  But there is method to the madness.   :)  And actually, they have this amazing checklist of all the skills that are considered important/useful/helpful for elementary math (up to 6th?) so once you get used to using the checklist and the system as a whole, and learn how to interweave between the books, it works beautifully.  And I love their 5 a day review program.  Cost may seem high at first, but you are correct, Walking-Iris, you buy the one program and can use it over and over, with every child, so you aren't having to buy workbooks every year, etc.  It incorporates lots of living math but you can add in as much or as little worksheet drill as you want.  Since you already own MM it is easy to just print out some MM worksheets that tie into the concept you are currently teaching.  Pairing it with something free, like Khan Academy or other math you tube videos for explanation can make it less teacher intense.  The big hurdle is just getting used to how to implement the program.  I believe there are video explanations on you tube, though...

 

HTH....

[Walking-Iris]

 

I will preface this by saying we are not currently using MOTL.  But I love this program.  I just had special needs kids and didn't understand all of their needs when I tried to implement it the first time.  I still use some aspects of it, though, and do not intend to sell it.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I'm slightly worried about. I imagine there could be a learning curve in getting it up and running. But I'm worried about spending that amount and it becoming something that I only glance at and use sporadically. As it is, right now, math is  an add -on to our days. something we get the book out and try to just get done. And for a long time I liked the "just get 'er done" approach. But it's beginning to feel as though math is an interruption. I'd like to make it more "just a part of life" like the other subjects have become. Math is the most "school at home" subject we do. I'd like to change that. They do well, but they also don't care. It feels as though math has a disconnect to the rest of our interests. Every other subject is integrated in our natural conversations and the kids will continue learning on their own something from all the other subjects that sparked an interest on their own time. Math is just a set amount of pages to get through. Even I'm starting to dislike it.

 

I'm glad to know MOTL has a checklist. I was sort of thinking of using a math scope and sequence (either Core Knowledge or Montessori or both).

 

Does it give help/advice in planning a weeks worth of lessons? A lesson planning template to work with?

[OneStepAtATime]

This is what I'm slightly worried about. I imagine there could be a learning curve in getting it up and running. But I'm worried about spending that amount and it becoming something that I only glance at and use sporadically. As it is, right now, math is  an add -on to our days. something we get the book out and try to just get done. And for a long time I liked the "just get 'er done" approach. But it's beginning to feel as though math is an interruption. I'd like to make it more "just a part of life" like the other subjects have become. Math is the most "school at home" subject we do. I'd like to change that. They do well, but they also don't care. It feels as though math has a disconnect to the rest of our interests. Every other subject is integrated in our natural conversations and the kids will continue learning on their own something from all the other subjects that sparked an interest on their own time. Math is just a set amount of pages to get through. Even I'm starting to dislike it.

 

I'm glad to know MOTL has a checklist. I was sort of thinking of using a math scope and sequence (either Core Knowledge or Montessori or both).

 

Does it give help/advice in planning a weeks worth of lessons? A lesson planning template to work with?

Yes.  It walks you through everything.  But it does take some brain power (at least it did for me) to wrap my brain around the big picture.  Once I got the big picture it wasn't that hard to implement lessons.  Maybe 30 minutes on a Sunday to prepare for the next week.  But my kids were having issues (dyslexia, dyscalculia, developmental vision problems) and were tripping up a lot.  At the time I thought I was just doing things wrong or needed a lot more hand holding with the curriculum.  Instead, what we really needed was to back up a LOT.  I hopped curriculum quite a bit before evaluations and info on the Learning Challenges board finally helped me out effectively.  It was not the MOTL curriculum that was the issue.  And MOTL gives lots of suggestions for ways to use math in your every day life.

 

You might look at Bon Crowder's website.  She has a review of MOTL somewhere on there and does a lot of living math stuff.  Really interesting person.  I met her at a convention and she was the one that mentioned MOTL to me.  She loves math, especially living math incorporated into our daily lives.

 

http://mathfour.com/

 

My suggestion would be, given what you have posted, that you should seriously consider MOTL coupled with some of the suggestions from Soror's Relaxed Math thread (see below) and Bon Crowder's website stuff.  Both have awesome resources for getting math back into your daily life in a fun and effective way.  I think MOTL would couple beautifully with some of the resources listed on that thread and the mathfour website.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499692-looking-to-do-some-relaxed-math-here-want-to-share-ideas/

[OneStepAtATime]

This is what I'm slightly worried about. I imagine there could be a learning curve in getting it up and running. But I'm worried about spending that amount and it becoming something that I only glance at and use sporadically. As it is, right now, math is  an add -on to our days. something we get the book out and try to just get done. And for a long time I liked the "just get 'er done" approach. But it's beginning to feel as though math is an interruption. I'd like to make it more "just a part of life" like the other subjects have become. Math is the most "school at home" subject we do. I'd like to change that. They do well, but they also don't care. It feels as though math has a disconnect to the rest of our interests. Every other subject is integrated in our natural conversations and the kids will continue learning on their own something from all the other subjects that sparked an interest on their own time. Math is just a set amount of pages to get through. Even I'm starting to dislike it.

 

I'm glad to know MOTL has a checklist. I was sort of thinking of using a math scope and sequence (either Core Knowledge or Montessori or both).

 

Does it give help/advice in planning a weeks worth of lessons? A lesson planning template to work with?

Or maybe you could just use some of the sources on the Relaxed Math thread like the Charlotte Mason business curriculum where your kids run a virtual business (there are 3 choices as to type) and they practice their math skills while they practically apply them.  We are going to do this with the Pet Shop version over the summer for a change of pace.  If you all take a break from your current routine, maybe in the fall you could come at this from a fresh perspective and see what would work then.  In the meantime, the kids would still be practicing some skills and you could all do it as a fun summer project.

[Hunter]

Walking Iris, there is nothing I do not like about MOTL. It just arrived when I was in crisis. The crisis actually hit while it was being shipped to me. If timing had been different, I'd probably be using it right now. I started using some other things and am going to keep using them for now. I don't have any long term student math goals for right now. Honestly I'm focusing on my own self-education right now, and taking some me time.

 

I think people over complicate the use of MOTL. Pick some pages that look like they are at the right level, and use them. Review from those pages, but don't turn the review into something ultra scheduled. You don't need to turn the MOTL lessons into Saxon. If you waited too long to review something, back up and reteach it. It's no. big. deal.

 

Do you need it? Will you use it? I don't know. If you are a hopper, you will hop, no matter what you buy.

[Walking-Iris]

Walking Iris, there is nothing I do not like about MOTL. It just arrived when I was in crisis. The crisis actually hit while it was being shipped to me. If timing had been different, I'd probably be using it right now. I started using some other things and am going to keep using them for now. I don't have any long term student math goals for right now. Honestly I'm focusing on my own self-education right now, and taking some me time.

 

I think people over complicate the use of MOTL. Pick some pages that look like they are at the right level, and use them. Review from those pages, but don't turn the review into something ultra scheduled. You don't need to turn the MOTL lessons into Saxon. If you waited too long to review something, back up and reteach it. It's no. big. deal.

 

Do you need it? Will you use it? I don't know. If you are a hopper, you will hop, no matter what you buy.

 

 

Do you mean someone who buys and changes curriculum or methods all the time? Then no..I'm not a "hopper". LOL

 

I like OneStepAtaTime's idea of doing something different for a bit. I've heard good things about SCM math products.

 

I'm actually a bit of a Scrooge when it comes to buying curriculum. Although I would rather spend more money up front to get something useful to me for many years, rather than nickel and dime every year, or (worse!!!) spend a ton of money each year.

 

At 295$ I'm definitely over thinking it, because I sense something needs to change a bit, and MOTL is intriguing to me.

 

I'll likely think on it for some time (like I do every big ticket thing I may buy). If I continue to read and hear only good things about it, I'll likely do it in the end.

[smfmommy]

For something similar but cheaper try looking at Kitchen Table Math by Dr Wright.  You could use the books to present the material then use what you already have for the occasional review.

 

I have not actually used either programs. But since you described yourself as a "scrooge" (I am right there with you), I thought I would mention the books.

[Hunter]

Back in the 1990s I used Arithmetic Made Simple as my spine.

http://www.amazon.com/Arithmetic-Made-Simple-Robert-Belge/dp/0385239386

 

We went straight from this to Saxon Algebra 1 2nd edition.

[scrapbabe]

For something similar but cheaper try looking at Kitchen Table Math by Dr Wright. You could use the books to present the material then use what you already have for the occasional review.

 

I have not actually used either programs. But since you described yourself as a "scrooge" (I am right there with you), I thought I would mention the books.

. I agree with this. I've owned both.

[Hunter]

I don't have Kitchen Table math, but I think it's more of only a hands on option where MOTL offers both a visual textbook lesson and hands on ideas.

[scrapbabe]

I don't have Kitchen Table math, but I think it's more of only a hands on option where MOTL offers both a visual textbook lesson and hands on ideas.

KTM is written to the teacher to learn how to teach your child you wouldn't actually share the book with your child. MOTL might be more of a sit down and read/look at the lesson together. Is that what you mean Hunter? Also the first KTM book is heavy on games/manipulatives, but the other two don't have as much. Although they do present ways to teach concepts with manipulatives when useful. The two programs are to me a similar approach. They both cover all the math concepts from first to sixth grade (maybe more, I can't remember). They both tell you which order specific lessons should be taught, so that some foundational topics aren't skipped. They are laid out differently and KTM doesn't have a "checklist" per se. It doesn't have the daily five either, but it could be added easily enough. The teaching methods of each are probably a little different too. But the idea and purpose are very similar IMHO. But I no longer have MOTL to compare.

[Hunter]

KTM sounds like Professor B in that it is written entirely to the instructor. I do like some solid visuals that can be shared with the student.