s/o how to work through progressively more challenging works

[lewelma]

This is an issue that begs the much larger discussion of how to work through progressively more challenging works through the years in order to successfully reach your (own personal) goals as a student/educator combo.

I won't claim to be an expert, but I will start this thread with what has worked for us.

I did not read properly until I was 12, and when I got to high school, I simply could not read the literature that I was expected to read and write about. I made it through my honors English class mostly through cliff notes. When I began homeschooling, one of my larger goals was not only to make sure that my children could read these classic works of literature, but that they would also enjoy them. I have succeeded. And it was one of the biggest successes of my life. Both boys *prefer* classic literature to anything else.

I have a few tricks to what I have done, but obviously it depends on your family. Both of my kids were early strong readers - my older a phonics reader and my younger a sight word reader. We are a STEM family, and my oldest is a MATH (in very large capitals) type and my younger is much more literary. But I have had success with both.  This is what I have done:

First, I ramp it up. Every quarter of every year, I make sure the books get harder. Not every book, however, because sometimes the kids want something lighter, and that is ok. So when my child can read Princess and the Goblin, I will consider something like Tom Sawyer. When my older can read Frankenstein, I will consider Grapes of Wrath. Clearly, my definition of incrementally more difficult books will vary from others, however, I consider both the difficulty of the language and the difficulty of the topic. And of course, maturity. I did make an error when I had my 12 year old read Brave New World (oops).

Second, I don't ever let them read anything but classics. They think classics are great because they have been brought up on them. Yes, they have read Harry Potter and Percy Jackson, but every time they do, it takes about 3 books to get them back up to the level they were reading before they went down to pop fiction. So I then have to find an easy classic, like the Narnia, and then a medium like Tarzan, to get them back up War of the Worlds. Because I have seen this over and over, I simply don't keep any non-classic fiction in the house, and the kids have never been big on picking their own books from the library, so I control what is read. We don't have 'school' and 'fun' books, we just have books. Sometimes they ask for something easy, or I might even recommend something easy if they have really struggled through a hard one. My older battled his way through Moby Dick last year, and after that one I gave him the Science Fiction Hall of Fame. Classic Sci Fi, but still much easier than Moby Dick!

Third, once my kids are about 10, I expect 4 classics per term, so 16 classics a year. Clearly some books count for more than others; Count of Monte Christo is LONG, so I then make sure that he reads a novella, like Picture of Dorian Gray. But MCT has convinced me that quantity matters! And actually, now that we are doing literary analysis with my older, I am finding that I can pull from a massive list of books for comparisons, so I agree with MCT that quantity does matter!

 

Fourth, I give them choice and never require them to finish a book they don't like.  I always have about 3 books I am considering for the next one.  And my kids sometimes start something that they don't want to finish.  And that is ok.  They have power.  I have never seen a pattern of quitting on a certain type of book either, so no dramas and only sci fi or something.  Because I have exposed them to a wide range early on, they seem to actually enjoy the diversity.

 

Fifth, I don't do any literary analysis until about 11. I just let the kids read read read. No narrations, discussions, etc. At 11 and 12 we begin to talk characterization, plot, theme, society, etc. Only at age 13 have I asked my older to start writing about what he is reading. And he certainly does not write about every book he reads. Probably only 1 in 4. I also have him write about short stories because they are shorter!

Sixth, I make sure that they have time for a full hour every. single. night. no exceptions. ever. You must read to build up your skill.

Seventh, I read the same books at the same time. Even if we don't discuss them, the kids know that I read the great stuff too. It is a shared experience. I can't get through everything although I try; so sometimes my kids will say, you really need to read xxx, and I will make an effort to do so because it is important to them.

Finally, we celebrate books. We love the language. We play with words. We congratulate anyone who can find a word that no one else knows. I say things like, 'soon you can read xxx. Did you know that it was one of my favorite books.' I'm sure you get the picture.

Well, that is about all I can think of. I am sure that many will disagree or even disapprove of my methods. But they have worked. My kid love the classics and are developing a huge storehouse of beautiful words and ideas. Not bad for this STEM mama!

Ruth in NZ

[8filltheheart]

I started doing this with my dd in 6th grade. We would work through a great book, research the author and their literary influences, allusions within the work itself, etc. We would read the other works as appropriate to her level. Going through poetry especially raised her reading leve dramatically. Now at 15 her literary abilities most of the time exceed mine.

I do not control what my kids read in their free time. I will say that my dd does not enjoy reading books that are written on a lower reading level. For example, she did not enjoy Hunger Games bc the vocabulary and language structure is so low even though the themes are more mature. But, she is a language lover.

[lewelma]

I do not control what my kids read in their free time.

 

I should definitely clarify, that I would never control what they read in their free time. But  they just seem to continue to read whatever book they are currently reading (which I had suggested).  We just don't have school vs free time situations here when it comes to reading.  Not sure how to explain it.

[justamouse]

Ruth, we do much of the same. I want to throw out the idea, though, that doing something like this is not just for strong readers. 

My children, for some reason, never read *well* until later. 10-12 is about when they *really* take off. 

However, because I have read them lots of classics, even Shakespeare, they are USED to the language and ideas, so that when their ability catches up, they just pick up the books and start plowing through them. 

Also, because they were raised on harder language books, it is what they prefer.

At my house, we have a mandatory hour read in the morning because we're all drinking coffee and don't want to talk to anyone. :D They also have at least an hour at night, and once they reach their teens, I don't make them go to sleep, I let them read as long as they like. They LIKE that. They enjoy the quiet mornings, they love going to bed early, even, just to read. 

Morning reading is assigned, night reading is free read. They prefer classics.

I will also agree with poetry. They've always used the AO poetry lists as copy work, and this last year we used The Grammar of Poetry because they loved it so much and they really took off with it. Ds14 took those tools and started writing music, Dd 12 writes her own poetry because she loves it. 

 

[SorrelZG]

When you say that quantity matters, are you referring to books read in general - the overall amount of reading the child does?

[lewelma]

I want to throw out the idea, though, that doing something like this is not just for strong readers.

I completely agree. I just did not want parents with struggling readers (like I was as a child) to think that my approach would be the key to helping their kids. Obviously, it depends on the needs of the child.
 

and once they reach their teens, I don't make them go to sleep, I let them read as long as they like. They LIKE that.

We do the same. In fact, I have let my kids read as long as they want starting at age 7. There is just three requirements: 1) you must be laying down, 2) you must use a flashlight (not over head light), and 3) you must be reading a classic. They typically don't last too late into the night! :001_smile:

[lewelma]

When you say that quantity matters, are you referring to books read in general - the overall amount of reading the child does?

If you are referring to classics, then Yes.  MCT really stresses this in Classics in the Classroom.  To develop skill in reading the classics, you have to spend time reading the classics.  One classic per term is just not going to cut it. Per MCT's suggestion, we do 16 per year (and much more when the kids are younger and the classics are shorter - think Peter Rabbit series).
 
To give you a sense of the quantity I am talking about, here is the list of books that  my older had read by the end of 6th grade (meaning the 5 years from 2nd grade to 6th grade) (please don't take this as a brag!):

ETA: This list is giving people heart palpitations, which was certainly not my intent. Please start this list or whatever list at an age appropriate to *your* child. You could have a student start it in 8th grade and finish it in 12th grade and be considered well read. The 2 main points I am trying to make is 1) the books need to get progressively harder in an incremental way (don't dump them in the deep end in high school), and 2) your kids need to read a LOT of classics to make them easy and enjoyable to read rather than a long hard slog.
 
Alice and wonderland,
through the looking glass,
wind and the willows,
swallows and amazons (all 8),
gulliver's travels,
children of the new forest,
princess and the goblin and sequel,
tom sawyer,
prince and the pauper,
Connecticut yankee
robin hood,
kidnapped,
the black arrow,
around the world in 80 days,
a little princess,
secret garden,
5 children and it and sequels, and others by her
anne of green gables and sequels,
sherlock holmes,
the white company
robinson cruseo,
enders game and sequel,
journey to the center of the earth,
20000 leagues under the sea,
master of the world
princess of mars and sequels,
I robot,
Foundation series
swiss family robinson,
peter pan,
eagle of the ninth and sequels (doesn't really like this author)
time machine,
war of the worlds,
heinlein juveniles,
my family and other animals,
all creatures great and small, and others by James Herriot
age of fable,
call of the wild,
white fang,
frankenstein,
titus groan and sequels (!!),
captains courageous,
tanglewood tales,
little women, (didn't really like)
Lord of the rings,
sword in the stone and sequels,
christmas carol,
dune
The lensmen
Watched 4 shakespeare plays
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Golden compass and sequels
Wrinkle in time and sequels
Earthsea and sequels
Henty (doesn't really like him)
Ivanhoe
Joan of Arc (Twain)
Sir Gwain and the Green Knight
Tarzan
Agatha Crystie
 
Plus a lot of younger kid books like Wizard of oz, pinocchio, jungle book, Winnie the Pooh, Peter Rabbit series, etc, too many to list.

[justamouse]

That, BTW, is a totally printable list, and you'll find many of them for free at library sales. Thought I did end up having to purchase Tarzan (totally worth it!). Those are all on my shelves. 


 

[lewelma]

My kids have Kindles and most of the books you can get from Gutenberg for free. I should probably organize them in order that they were read. The list came from a thread where I was trying to figure out his 7th grade books. People kept suggesting books that my son had read and I had not recorded (very poor record keeping apparently), so I just kept adding onto the list which is why it is all messed up!

[lorisuewho]

How important is it for children to have long-term memory of these stories? We read quite a bit, but if I bring up a book such as Wizard of Oz that we read in kindergarten, they don't seem to remember although they seemed to enjoy it at the time. I have read some of Lang's fairy tales three times and it seems only vaguely familiar to them.

I suppose the boys will hear some of these books again when I read them to their younger sisters. It just feels like I could make a nice list of what we have read and enjoyed, but I couldn't really check a book off the list since the don't really remember them.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I want to talk about poetry!  Shannon is loving poetry right now and it's what she really, really wants to do for literature.  She's in A Midsummer Night's Dream, so she's immersed in that language and loving it, and she's loving the poems we've read and discussed, and she wants to read and talk about more, and write some of her own . . . . and I feel more lost with this than with other stuff.  I mean, I really like to read poetry.  I read a lot, and I read aloud to the girls a lot.  But I don't really know what else to do with it.  I know what I like, but I also know I don't always "understand" the poems that I like, and I'm not sure what to say about them, how to "teach" them.  

 

And I swear I have looked at every single poetry book, poetry curriculum, etc. that's out there and I can't figure out what we want . . . she wants to study MORE POETRY and is counting on me to point her in the right direction, and I"m literally paralyzed by all the choices out there!  I would really love to find an annotated poetry book kind of like The Annotated Alice or Annotated Hobbit, i think.

 

I know this is kind of off topic, but I'm tying it in to several of the comments that y'all have made - that reading poetry increases overall reading level.  What are you actually doing with the poetry you read? 

 

Ruth, i can start another thread if you think that's better, it's just I want to hear from you guys about this!  In the context of ramping up reading level and challenge in literature studies.

[lewelma]

Ruth, i can start another thread if you think that's better, it's just I want to hear from you guys about this!  In the context of ramping up reading level and challenge in literature studies.

 

Let's just keep it all on the same thread!

 

We don't do much poetry over here, so I won't be of any help.

[justamouse]

Rose, I used the old Grammar of Poetry . Just use the teacher's manual and the kid's workbook. We did it in two terms, and had a LOT of fun with it. 

[lewelma]

How important is it for children to have long-term memory of these stories? We read quite a bit, but if I bring up a book such as Wizard of Oz that we read in kindergarten, they don't seem to remember although they seemed to enjoy it at the time. I have read some of Lang's fairy tales three times and it seems only vaguely familiar to them.

I suppose the boys will hear some of these books again when I read them to their younger sisters. It just feels like I could make a nice list of what we have read and enjoyed, but I couldn't really check a book off the list since the don't really remember them.

 

I don't think that they need to remember books, and probably won't until about 8 years old, maybe later.

 

Also, I do want to stress, that although reading classics *to* kids is very worth while, IMHO kids need to start reading the classics *independently* as soon as they are able.  I started with easy, short books like Peter Rabbit and Winnie the Pooh.

[Sarah0000]

How do you work up to this from the start? I have a two year old and we've read the shorter Beatrix Potter tales, Winnie the Pooh, A Child's Garden of Verses, and a few other commonly recommended nursery level classics. I'm having an extremely hard time finding enough books with higher level language that's interesting for a preschooler. We do read a lot of emergent reader books as well but I'd like to maintain a balance between the two types.

[8filltheheart]

Rose, I don't really like poetry and if I haven't messed it up, seriously, I doubt anyone can! I used the Art of Poetry for a short while, but that really isn't the type of poetry my dd likes. She likes things like Marmion, Siege of Valencia, Lady of the Lake, etc. (it than take us a couple of weeks or more to get through some of them)

If you search online, there are literally pages of resources often available for a single poem. We even found an entire section of an old book online with commentary on Siege of Valencia. Earlier this yr she chose a verse translation of Beowulf that was incredibly difficult for me to follow. We had to read a prose translation side by side to see if we were actually interpreting it correctly.

I am 100% positive we do not always get things right! But, her ability to read complicated language has literally exploded with our time spent with poetry. And she absolutely loves it while I am dragged along. ;)

[I.Dup.]

Would you recommend a reading list like AO's to choose books from?

 

What would you recommend for a 12yo 6th grader who is a voracious reader but never been pushed to read the classics? I have to force myself to read the classics, it is not enjoyable for me even still, and I just have not pushed her yet. She is so moody and quite fickle, and I have never wanted to quell her love of reading. She also prefers to listen to audiobooks.

[serendipitous journey]

How do you work up to this from the start? I have a two year old and we've read the shorter Beatrix Potter tales, Winnie the Pooh, A Child's Garden of Verses, and a few other commonly recommended nursery level classics. I'm having an extremely hard time finding enough books with higher level language that's interesting for a preschooler. We do read a lot of emergent reader books as well but I'd like to maintain a balance between the two types.

 

I think you are wise to have a balance.  There are many marvelous picture books, too.  Books by, or illustrated by, Steven Kellogg & Jerry Pinkney (including Lester's version of Remus Tales, illustrated by Pinkney) are some you may not have thought of.  Toot & Puddle books too. 

 

If the child will tolerate fairy tales, you can introduce Lang's color fairy tale books.  "Blue" is the first he edited and has many of the most-known ones.  

 

Some good sources (you may have looked at these?) are:

Sonlight (a lot of lighter stuff too, but cross-reference lists for good ones)

Veritas Press

Angelicum Academy/Good Books (they include some odd stuff for olders, including a crazy amount of Henty and "Log of a Cowboy" which is problematic; but most of the recs are excellent)

1000 Good Books -- google this, you'll come across the list age-sorted

Ambleside Online -- year 0

Junior Great Books -- google this, look at their collections for K, and find the titles at your library/online.  A reasonable amount of K is usable for reading aloud to a 3-year-old, I think, esp. if you let her play with blocks or clay while you read. 

[serendipitous journey]

I had one thought RE quantity, which I haven't time to really express properly but wanted to toss it onto the thread/into the discussion -- the quantity Ruth is speaking of is one approach, and an excellent one, but there are others; particularly for the younger years.  I am thinking of A., who will probably not have anything like that marvelous 6th-grade-reading list, not least because he was late to enjoy reading -- it has been a labor to have him enjoying what he reads.  Also, he's just 8. 

 

At any rate, I know that many on Ambleside Online will suggest fewer classics per year and have reasons for this suggestion, and children who have thrived with it and are able to engage upper-level (high school) literature at a good level and with an eager spirit. 

 

I don't, however, have at all a sense of how to tell what approach(es) is best for a given situation, or how age comes into it, or things like that.  I am just thinking that if A. were "supposed to" have a list like Ruth's in 6th (I know this is not what she meant!) I would hyperventilate and not sleep for a month.  And he is a very able and accelerated reader with no special needs, and I'm dedicated to a generous classics exposure. 

[quark]

How do you work up to this from the start? I have a two year old and we've read the shorter Beatrix Potter tales, Winnie the Pooh, A Child's Garden of Verses, and a few other commonly recommended nursery level classics. I'm having an extremely hard time finding enough books with higher level language that's interesting for a preschooler. We do read a lot of emergent reader books as well but I'd like to maintain a balance between the two types.

 

We started with fairy tales and Winnie the Pooh at about 2-3yo. We found myths to be wonderful from ages 4 onwards but some kids might like them sooner. Classic Myths to Read Aloud was a huge favorite along with the Narnia tales and Alice in Wonderland/ Through the Looking Glass. Then we moved on to Shakespeare retelllings, first by Nesbit (ages 4-6), then by Leon Garfield (ages 5+). Garfield's language is simpler but not way more simplified than Shakespeare's so moving on to Shakespeare comedies first by watching plays at around 7yo then reading the plays from 9yo was not difficult for him. 

 

We also started on non fiction around 4yo. Biographies (starting simple then gradually ramping up in difficulty) were a hit with my kiddo because they are somewhat like stories after all.

 

You might like the first volume from Journeys through Bookland. See 8's thread here. Wish I'd known about it sooner :) but thankfully, kiddo adores classics and has had a good intro to them despite missing out on the Bookland volumes when he was younger.
 

[quark]

What would you recommend for a 12yo 6th grader who is a voracious reader but never been pushed to read the classics? I have to force myself to read the classics, it is not enjoyable for me even still, and I just have not pushed her yet. She is so moody and quite fickle, and I have never wanted to quell her love of reading. She also prefers to listen to audiobooks.

 

If she likes some scifi/ fantasy, you could try Jules Verne. A few years ago, we listened to a very nice narration of Around the World in 80 Days by Alex Foster on Librivox. We like British narrators in general but again, some are definitely better than others.

 

There are also plays that she might enjoy listening to, again on Librivox e.g. kiddo recommends Major Barbara by George Bernard Shaw (narrated by a group of readers and quite good he says).

 

Humor also helps. See if she likes Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome. And how about Jane Austen's books?

 

ETA: The Rob Inglis narrations of the 3 LoTR books and The Hobbit are very, very good. Expensive to purchase so do dig through your library's catalog first.

 

 

[lewelma]

 But, her ability to read complicated language has literally exploded with our time spent with poetry.

 

This is worth knowing!  I might just do some with the kids.

[lewelma]

What would you recommend for a 12yo 6th grader who is a voracious reader but never been pushed to read the classics? I have to force myself to read the classics, it is not enjoyable for me even still, and I just have not pushed her yet. She is so moody and quite fickle, and I have never wanted to quell her love of reading. She also prefers to listen to audiobooks.

 

It is ALL about the child. 

 

The first chapter book I EVER read was the Hobbit (yes, go think about that).  It took me the *entire* 3-months summer break before 8th grade.  I basically used it to teach myself how to read. I *wanted* to read it, and that drive was the key.

 

The problem was that by the time I hit high school, I had read The Hobbit and about 10 other nondescript books in 8th grade.  Then in 9th grade I had to read 1984, and I can tell you that I definitely could *not*. Not only could I not read the actual words, I also did not have the life experience to have a clue about the topic.  For the next classic after the Hobbit I needed something that was only a smidgeon harder and also something I would have personally liked.  At the time, I liked fantasy, so I could have been given The Sword in the Stone.  But if I had loved animals - it should have been Black Beauty.  Adventure - Tarzan. Historical Fiction - Tom Sawyer.  Drama - Call of the Wild.  You get the picture.  But no, I was given 1984.  yikes!

 

Now I am certainly no expert, but I would just think about what your child likes, and then get an easy one in that genre.  I got my kids up to the next level using Sci Fi - Burroughs, Verne, Wells, then the distopians.  But another kid might use detective stories with Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Crystie.  And remember some classics are  *definitely* more gripping than others - don't start with 1984 with a 14 year old who has only read 1 classic!

 

So pick something easy, gripping and in her favorite genre.

[lewelma]

 I am just thinking that if A. were "supposed to" have a list like Ruth's in 6th (I know this is not what she meant!) I would hyperventilate and not sleep for a month. 

 

Just went back and clarified that that list was for 5 years (2nd - 6th grade) NOT just for 6th grade.  I would hyperventilate too.

[lewelma]

Re the poetry, my degree is in poetry and I was published in books, magazines and anthologies in Aus before I had the kids...

Wow.  That's cool!

[Alte Veste Academy]

Enjoying the thread. Thanks for starting it!

Overall I feel pretty good about the progress and forward momentum of each of my kids. They all love books and identify as readers, which is one of my biggest goals as an educator. They each happily tackle challenging material for their respective ages, including many classics. Truth be told, I am happiest when my kids read widely, across subjects and genres. Another of my primary goals for the kids is for them to be well-rounded.

I agree that independent reading is incredibly valuable (especially for soaking in spelling and vocabulary), and as my kids age up, I continue to up their game in that department. At the same time, I am completely dedicated to the read-aloud—as part of school and as part of family life. I truly believe my kids developed major book love primarily because I have read aloud to them virtually every day from infancy. It is extremely rare for me to miss a day of reading. It is part of the rhythm of our lives and, honestly, my favorite privilege of motherhood and homeschooling. There is something magical about sharing books this way. We get to enter new worlds simultaneously, make good friends with the characters, laugh and cry and groan together... There is a precious camaraderie about it that I will never give up. Also, I feel that there are enormous benefits conferred upon kids when they are read books above their own level. Luckily, there are enough great books out there that I can have my cake (family books that are read aloud) and eat it too (kids' books that are assigned or read for pleasure).

[lewelma]

How do you work up to this from the start? I have a two year old and we've read the shorter Beatrix Potter tales, Winnie the Pooh, A Child's Garden of Verses, and a few other commonly recommended nursery level classics. I'm having an extremely hard time finding enough books with higher level language that's interesting for a preschooler. We do read a lot of emergent reader books as well but I'd like to maintain a balance between the two types.

 

I can only say what I did.  Read Alouds support language acquisition; however, kids do have to actually read the classics independently at some point, so I have made 2 different categories.

 

Read Alouds

 

age 2-3. I read to them lots of picture books.  Not sure if we did any chapter books. 

 

Age 4 - 5. Read Blue fairy book, Little house on the prairie, Robin Hood, James Harriot, Charlotte's web etc (they often reread these independently a few years later). My little boys also loved the Sonlight historical fiction, so we read quite a few of those (as in 50).

 

Age 5 and up, started reading aloud novels that were at a level somewhat higher than their reading level

 

 

Independent reading.  Not putting ages here just levels. These are the books in order that my older son read

 

1. teach the kids to read

 

2. little kiddy chapter books like Magic Tree House and Boxcar children, My Father's Dragon, Mr Poppers Penguins

 

3. First classics - Winnie the Pooh, Peter Rabbit, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, James and the giant peach, Cricket in times square, Phanom tollbooth, Wizard of Oz, Just so Stories (at this level either the words themselves had to be small, or the *number* of words had to be small.  So Peter Rabbit has bigger words, but fewer of them)  They also read a LOT of other books, basically anything I could find in the library that was at an appropriate age.

 

4. Advanced Children's classics - The princess and the goblin, Five Children and It, Children of the New Forest, The hobbit, Narnia, Swallows and Amazons, Alice in wonderland, Peter Pan, Swiss Family Robinson, Little House on the Prairie, Eagle of the ninth, Call of the Wild, The lost World, Tom Saywer.    These were mixed with modern books of decent quality: Redwall, Gone Away Lake, Incredible Journey, Dealing with Dragons, Holes, Island of the blue dolphins, invention of Hugo Cabaret, Watership Down, Mrs Frisby and the Rats of Nim, Neverending Story, Bridge to Terabithia, Wrinkle in Time. My younger also read a lot of historical fiction from Sonlight and other distributors. He needed a LOT of books.

 

5. Easier Adult Classics -  Once we got to this level, my kids just stuck with the classics and quit reading modern kids books.  Journey to the center of the Earth, Prince and the Pauper, Jane Eyre, 20000 leagues under the Sea, Lord of the Rings, My Family and other animals, The Mars Series by Burroughs, Sherlock Holmes, Chrysalids, Day of the Triffids, Gift of the Magi, Robinson Crusoe, Moonstone, Invisible Man, Anthem, Mysterious Island, Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, Great Expectations, Poe

 

6. Harder Adult Classics - Huck Finn, Moby Dick, Turn of the Screw, Picture of Dorian Grey, 1984, Brave New World, Wuthering Heights, life of Fredrick Douglas, Dracula, Great Gatsby, Metamorphosis, Grapes of Wrath

 

 

Not sure if this is what you are looking for. Yes, it is a just another book list, but it also might help you to see that you need to s.l.o.w.l.y build up, and have a plan for where you are going.

 

A lot of what I have done is psychological.  "wow, can you believe you are almost ready for xxx" , " Listen to this language, isn't it beautiful" etc

 

I also did some team reading in the beginning.   You read a paragraph, I read a paragraph.  That *really* helped

[lewelma]

I've been thinking about how to start with older kids, and I wonder if you couldn't use the classification above.  Have your kid read 10 children's classics and 10 easier adult classics, before hitting the difficult adult classics.  Just a thought.

[lewelma]

 I am completely dedicated to the read-aloud—as part of school and as part of family life.

 

My older ds still definitely wants to be read to.  DH does all the read alouds and it is just as you say, a part of family life.

 

 

 

Overall I feel pretty good about the progress and forward momentum of each of my kids. They all love books and identify as readers, which is one of my biggest goals as an educator. They each happily tackle challenging material for their respective ages, including many classics. Truth be told, I am happiest when my kids read widely, across subjects and genres. Another of my primary goals for the kids is for them to be well-rounded.

 

 I am having much more difficulty with nonfiction with my younger.  He is my big reader, but definitely a fiction reader.  I just keep plugging away, requiring that he spends time reading material he is interested in and that stretches him a bit.  Right now that is National Geographic.  I am not to the point where he can or will read material he is not interested in.  sigh.
 

[Tress]

Ruth, I love your list and how to build up the level of difficulty!

 

On the other hand, these kind of threads always leave me :willy_nilly: because there are no such lists in Dutch available. There are not many Dutch children's classics. If you ask someone here to name a children's classic they usually say 'Winnie the Poeh, or Peter Pan, or The Secret Garden' which are obviously *not* Dutch classics but translated into Dutch. The problem with those translations is that they are often cluncky and bowdlerized. :banghead:

 

Which leaves me wondering if it would be better to wait untill my kids can read them in the original English. But that makes me very nervous about neglecting Dutch...... :blink: .

 

Anyway, please ignore me while I go breath in a paper bag in a corner, while you continue your conversation :D .

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Ruth, I love your list and how to build up the level of difficulty!

 

On the other hand, these kind of threads always leave me :willy_nilly: because there are no such lists in Dutch available. There are not many Dutch children's classics. If you ask someone here to name a children's classic they usually say 'Winnie the Poeh, or Peter Pan, or The Secret Garden' which are obviously *not* Dutch classics but translated into Dutch. The problem with those translations is that they are often cluncky and bowdlerized. :banghead:

 

Which leaves me wondering if it would be better to wait untill my kids can read them in the original English. But that makes me very nervous about neglecting Dutch...... :blink: .

 

Anyway, please ignore me while I go breath in a paper bag in a corner, while you continue your conversation :D .

 

Similar problem here as a bilingual homeschooler.  Not a lot of children's classics in French!!!  However, one thing about French vs English is that despite what most English speakers think, French is actually a very regular language- meaning decoding, once learned, is very straightforward.  English is much harder to decode and requires decoding for a longer period of time, because at any given time, a new word in English may require a pronunciation rule derived from Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Norse...  and the only chance of being exposed to this organically is to eat through a LOT of pages of good literature. 

 

For now with French, we have just broken down and bought the school reader, albeit at a higher grade level.  We read the few classics that there are, and we read some of the better translated works, things where the English would have also been a translation- Astrid Lingren (sp?) comes to mind. 

 

My husband speaks "good French" in the sense that he speaks eloquently and is not afraid of throwing around 50 cent words in front of the kids.  As a result, their vocabularies are excellent and they speak very well, even with the bilingual disadvantage. 

 

I don't know much about Dutch, so not sure how much of this will transfer to you!  I hope you find a solution!  Somehow despite having "children's lit," high school students here are still expected to tackle the big names like Hugo and Rousseau, so it must be possible!  At least a few of the children's classics mentioned above are translations INTO English, so just look for the same book translated in Dutch.  That will add a handful to your list!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Responding to the original topic, for the very young years (the only thing I know for now!) I really like the McGuffey Readers- they have an antiquated style of language that helps train the ear and the brain to hear older language.  The vocabulary is rich- a far cry from Magic Tree House!  My son enjoys the stories as well. 

 

I think helping kids enjoy classics is more than just having them read classics.  They have to develop a taste for doing "hard work" as part of finding pleasure.  If a child is used to instant gratification (TV shows, etc.) then it will be harder to convince them to work to find meaning. 

 

I'm also a big believer in training the ear through read alouds/audio books.  My son LOVES Robin Hood on audio book, and he has not once asked me to explain thee or thou or "... quoth Robin"- the vocabulary of the book has simply been absorbed in context, and I don't doubt that he will understand it the next time he hears it. 

 

By the same token, I am looking into some of the annotated audios of Shakespeare, but haven't ordered yet.  I have a few audible credits built up, just need to choose one.  :-)

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I tried to find online links to the types of stories I like reading to my kids around ages 4 up. Some of my 4 yr olds can't handle this level of story. My current 4 yr enjoys them. When they are little p, stories like these are most definitely intermixed with picture books. We love picture books, too. But, I read stories like these to them even when they are 10 and older. :)

Nelly's Hospital http://americanliterature.com/author/louisa-may-alcott/short-story/nellys-hospital
The Light Princess http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/George_MacDonald/The_Light_Princess/
The lance of Kanana http://www.archive.org/stream/lanceofkananasto00frenrich/lanceofkananasto00frenrich_djvu.txt
When Molly was Six https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=WhYZAAAAYAAJ&rdid=book-WhYZAAAAYAAJ&rdot=1

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Read-alouds have been the gateway here. We started with the Beatrix Potter tales at 1 or 2 and then on to to Pooh at 3. There were of course hundreds of other books during those years, but those were the earliest longer books.They were also ones that were reread many, many times, both aloud and independently. Once she was reading independently, we started taking turns reading aloud.  It's not a replacement for independent reading. It's both/and, not either/or. Reading aloud is a treasured pastime for us.

 

One of the myriad benefits of reading aloud is that it gives me insight into when she is ready to move on. Sometimes I hand the read-aloud over to her and tell her to finish it independently, and sometimes I just increase the next round of books I assign or those I scatter about for free reading. That worked until mid-middle school. Now I am more likely to just give her any level book now (high school and above) and if she struggles we can re-evaluate. I don't spend much time at all thinking about levels at this point.

 

We loosely follow the WTM reading recommendations, as well as other lists from various sources.  I had more of a plan when she was younger, partly because I had more time and inclination to spend doing it then. Now I find myself choosing books much more in the moment to be sure I'm going with the flow and living in the moment. She also gives much more input into selections now.

 

She has been raised without a TV. I think that has had some impact as well.

 

From the earliest years I have read aloud older books with richer vocab. Like many others have mentioned about their children, my daughter isn't satisfied with lower quality books. I believe that is partly because she literally cut her teeth on classics. I have the books with teething marks to prove it. ;)

[Soror]

Thanks for the info. It seems that we've had a similar path here, although I didn't have a grand master plan. My son 9.5 is allowed to stay up late and read and we often have quiet time, aka reading time in the afternoon, he usually reads 2+ hrs a day. Lucky for me he is a pretty voracious reader. I've honestly not assigned too much reading yet, usually just filing the shelf works well and I would say he has read at least 50 books this year, many classics, most good and a few fluff. I had been wondering however when to start doing deeper discussion so I'm very happy to see some discussion of this, along with the video justamouse posted on the other thread. I always appreciate booklists, I'm just starting to think about what to put on the shelf for this year and I need considerably more books.

 

Fwiw I started ds on good picture books when he was younger. I've found the language of many to be a great start to training the ear. Dd1- (almost)7 still much prefers picture books so I searched out the best retellings of various fairytales I could find. Dd2-4 has had a fondness for Rumpelstilskin (Zelinsky's version) and Beatrix Potter for a few years. This year she has taken a fondness to Sir Gawain and the Loathly Lady (Hastings). So, I think when we talk about bringing them up to challenging works we should not forget to mention picture books! It starts there and what a wonderful way to introduce beauty through the wonderful illustrations as well. I love picture books. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Enjoying the thread. Thanks for starting it!

Overall I feel pretty good about the progress and forward momentum of each of my kids. They all love books and identify as readers, which is one of my biggest goals as an educator. They each happily tackle challenging material for their respective ages, including many classics. Truth be told, I am happiest when my kids read widely, across subjects and genres. Another of my primary goals for the kids is for them to be well-rounded.

.

 

I agree. My daughter does read classics, but she reads lots of nonfiction as well. She goes through cycles of which she reads more, but on balance I would say more nonfiction. I'm OK with that. :)
 

[Tress]

Similar problem here as a bilingual homeschooler.  Not a lot of children's classics in French!!!  However, one thing about French vs English is that despite what most English speakers think, French is actually a very regular language- meaning decoding, once learned, is very straightforward.  English is much harder to decode and requires decoding for a longer period of time, because at any given time, a new word in English may require a pronunciation rule derived from Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Norse...  and the only chance of being exposed to this organically is to eat through a LOT of pages of good literature. 

 

For now with French, we have just broken down and bought the school reader, albeit at a higher grade level.  We read the few classics that there are, and we read some of the better translated works, things where the English would have also been a translation- Astrid Lingren (sp?) comes to mind. 

 

My husband speaks "good French" in the sense that he speaks eloquently and is not afraid of throwing around 50 cent words in front of the kids.  As a result, their vocabularies are excellent and they speak very well, even with the bilingual disadvantage. 

 

I don't know much about Dutch, so not sure how much of this will transfer to you!  I hope you find a solution!  Somehow despite having "children's lit," high school students here are still expected to tackle the big names like Hugo and Rousseau, so it must be possible!  At least a few of the children's classics mentioned above are translations INTO English, so just look for the same book translated in Dutch.  That will add a handful to your list!

 

I wouldn't use the words 'bilingual' and 'disadvantage' in the same sentence :001_tt2: , I'm so jealous of people who have that kind of family situation! We are not bilingual (you don't want to hear me speak English ;)) and it is such *hard* work to get enough vocab into their heads so that they can start reading English books. It feels like I need to manually pound each word into them :smash: . But my dd10 is now reading Harry Potter and Percy Jackson with ease, so we are not doing too shabby. (She is an advanced reader in Dutch, so that helps. I'm not really sure I can duplicate this with dd7, who is a reluctant reader in Dutch.)

 

You are right that Astrid Lindgren and Heidi and several others are translated into English, so we can easily read them in Dutch. And we do.

 

It just makes me nervous that English native speakers need to read so much in order to read the Great Books. That would mean that my girls would need to read even more English in order to get there, because they almost never hear anyone speak English. On the other hand, while Dutch is probably more regular in pronunciation, in order to get the big vocab words in, they also need to read progressively more difficult books in Dutch. And there I am again :willy_nilly: ....

 

[Kfamily]

I want to talk about poetry!  Shannon is loving poetry right now and it's what she really, really wants to do for literature.  She's in A Midsummer Night's Dream, so she's immersed in that language and loving it, and she's loving the poems we've read and discussed, and she wants to read and talk about more, and write some of her own . . . . and I feel more lost with this than with other stuff.  I mean, I really like to read poetry.  I read a lot, and I read aloud to the girls a lot.  But I don't really know what else to do with it.  I know what I like, but I also know I don't always "understand" the poems that I like, and I'm not sure what to say about them, how to "teach" them.  

 

And I swear I have looked at every single poetry book, poetry curriculum, etc. that's out there and I can't figure out what we want . . . she wants to study MORE POETRY and is counting on me to point her in the right direction, and I"m literally paralyzed by all the choices out there!  I would really love to find an annotated poetry book kind of like The Annotated Alice or Annotated Hobbit, i think.

 

I know this is kind of off topic, but I'm tying it in to several of the comments that y'all have made - that reading poetry increases overall reading level.  What are you actually doing with the poetry you read? 

 

Ruth, i can start another thread if you think that's better, it's just I want to hear from you guys about this!  In the context of ramping up reading level and challenge in literature studies.

 

I just wanted to add a suggestion that you consider some of Longfellow's longer poems such as The Courtship of Miles Standish, Evangeline,The Saga of King Olaf, etc. My older daughter and I read The Courtship of Miles Standish (and there are books at Google or Archive  with study questions, etc. to go along with the poem) and it was a great introduction to longer poems but that was very attainable for her as a 6th grader. I think it really does pay off in the long run. We read Eve of St. Agnes in 7th and took a long time reading Fierce Wars and Faithful Loves (interesting and hard but very anti-Catholic...something we didn't know when we started....) over 8th. This year in 10th we are reading The Iliad and will be reading The Odyssey directly after it. My younger daughter (5th grader) and I are reading Evangeline together right not and she is really enjoying it. But, I do see Longfellow as a good poet to start introducing longer poetry.
 

[justamouse]

 

"A lot of what I have done is psychological.  "wow, can you believe you are almost ready for xxx" , " Listen to this language, isn't it beautiful" etc"


Siblings also help with this. Being the only kid who hasn't read _____ and hearing everyone else talk about it? Makes them want to read it. 

And for the most part I read to them a lot. But we've called off that wagon recently and I'm hoping after the play I can get us scheduled back into normal life and read alouds again. 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

How do you work up to this from the start? I have a two year old and we've read the shorter Beatrix Potter tales, Winnie the Pooh, A Child's Garden of Verses, and a few other commonly recommended nursery level classics. I'm having an extremely hard time finding enough books with higher level language that's interesting for a preschooler. We do read a lot of emergent reader books as well but I'd like to maintain a balance between the two types.

 

When my daughter was younger she was Very Much a video based learner. I often gave her a dvd version to watch as an introduction before reading the book. Pride and Prejudice may not be a preschoolers book, but it seemed perfectly good to her because Lizzie and Jane and Mr Darcy are old friends.

 

 

Just wanted to say to anyone freaking out, my parents read about two classics to me as a child and grew up into a person who can read and sometimes enjoy them (Not St Augustine. I don't enjoy St Augustine. I will never enjoy St Augustine!) I grew up on a diet of Enid Blyton (which now I'm reading them to my dd, I can recognise as good at best but plenty is really awful) and Heidi, What Katy Did and some of those old kids books my Mum grew up on. I'm very sure I'd be much better off with more intentional teaching, but even without it I haven't grown into an illiterate bum. :P

[Chrysalis Academy]

I love all the poetry ideas, thanks so much!!  I got discouraged when I dipped into WWS to "do" poetry again.  We love to read the poems and talk about them and my dd adores scancion - I'm not even entirely clear what it is! But her theater director taught her how to do it it on her Midsummer lines, and now she does it to poems all over the place - i have to photocopy them for her so she can scribble on them! I think that's great.  But when we had to get into comparing the rhyme scheme and explaining how changes in the rhyme scheme indicated movement - blech, we both really found that dull.  So I've tossed that over my shoulder (again!) and have been hesitant about what to do next.  I will now officially give us permission to just read and eat and chew and digest and enjoy poetry for ahwile! And see where that takes us.

 

As far as my kid's own journeys to reading, I will say that read alouds have had a huge impact, as have audio books.  I have read aloud the "children's classics" on Ruth's number 4 above.  I use bedtime read aloud time to read books that are well above my 2nd grader's reading level (well, maybe not for much longer) or that I don't think the girls would voluntarily pick up because of the difficult or archaic language or sentence structure.  But I also pick things that I read as a kid and want to share the love of with them, or things I never read as a kid and want to read now!  My 2nd grader has been exposed to so many wonderful books that way, and I'm betting that she'll reread many of them over the coming years.

 

Listening to these books, with this challenging language, has made such a huge difference.  I think my kids are pretty similar in "verbal ability" or whatever, but because my younger has been exposed to these books from the beginning, she is a much stronger reader now in 2nd grade than my older was at the time.  She has grown up listening - over and over - to Peter Pan, Mrs. Piggle Wiggle, Raggedy Anne stories, Half Magic, The Railroad Children, and many others.  I think the beauty of audio books is that she can listen to the same story over and over, whereas an adult reader balks at reading the same (long) book multiple times! But hearing these books over and over has really set up the rhythm of the language in her mind.  This year in 2nd grade she's blowing me away with what she is reading - The Cricket in Times Square and all its sequels, The Trumpet of the Swan, Mrs. Piggle Wiggle and all its sequels, Beatrix Potter, Mother Goose, and all the poetry she can get her hands on.  She can read thing like this, and loves to, because of all the great stuff she's heard her whole life.

 

However, this child was super resistant to being read aloud to when she was younger anything that she suspected was "educational" or that I wanted her to hear.  She's mostly over this now, but I will say, I don't know how she knew, but any time I tried to pull out Junior Classics or anything like that she was having none of it.  She hated it when I tried to make her read McGuffey, too.  I think it was an independence thing, a "you can't make me" thing, which fits her personality.  I found that if I went to the library and found a nicely illustrated version of the same thing, and put it on her book stack, she'd bring it to me to read, but if I pulled out the "big" book, she wasn't interested.  This was the case for all of K and 1st grade, like I said, she's over it, but I wanted to mention it in case anyone else is running into this kind of resistance.  Don't be discouraged! Read from the "big" book to the other kid(s), find pretty version the child will like, and let them listen to audio books, and it's all good.  I think.

 

With Shannon, I fell like she's in a good place - nothing like Ruth's son's list, she reads a ton of modern fiction and historical fiction, not all classics, but she's read or heard pretty much all the Advanced Children's books and some of the Easier Classics off Ruth's list.  My challenge for her this year has been to find things of a challenging reading level but not too topically advanced, I am really working hard not to push her too fast, which is my own tendency. I always work to slow myself down.  I know there are a lot of classics she could read but is not emotionally ready for.  But between this year and last year she's read and enjoyed a decent list of Good Books.  She's read or listened to over 120 books this school year, so I think she's got quantity covered, and a good chunk of those are of very high quality, too.  What I'm most happy about is that she is rereading a lot this year (not counted in the 120) and we discuss how you read differently a second or third time, and I tie that in to *how* you read more difficult/challenging books.  She's also reading on her own things I read  aloud to them when she was younger, which I think is great.  So despite the fact that Ruth's list makes me temporarily hyperventilate, I think she's doing fine!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I wouldn't use the words 'bilingual' and 'disadvantage' in the same sentence :001_tt2: , I'm so jealous of people who have that kind of family situation! We are not bilingual (you don't want to hear me speak English ;)) and it is such *hard* work to get enough vocab into their heads so that they can start reading English books. It feels like I need to manually pound each word into them :smash: . But my dd10 is now reading Harry Potter and Percy Jackson with ease, so we are not doing too shabby. (She is an advanced reader in Dutch, so that helps. I'm not really sure I can duplicate this with dd7, who is a reluctant reader in Dutch.)

 

You are right that Astrid Lindgren and Heidi and several others are translated into English, so we can easily read them in Dutch. And we do.

 

It just makes me nervous that English native speakers need to read so much in order to read the Great Books. That would mean that my girls would need to read even more English in order to get there, because they almost never hear anyone speak English. On the other hand, while Dutch is probably more regular in pronunciation, in order to get the big vocab words in, they also need to read progressively more difficult books in Dutch. And there I am again :willy_nilly: ....

 

 

I think in your case, you should not worry too much about your kids competing with English speakers in terms of book lists, classics, etc.  After all, part of the whole reason for DOING this is for children to gain valuable content knowledge, in addition to valuable language knowledge.  Your kids have another language, another culture, and another way of life, which will enrich their discussions and interpretations of whatever they read!  Also, why not read a translated version, but also read excerpts of the most important passages from the English and compare the way the language was translated?  Imagine the learning opportunity in that exercise! 

 

As many others have mentioned, most of us were not given this education as children, and yet we were able to pull it together and can now read great works.  Of course, ideally we get an annotated version so we don't miss any of the richness.  :-P 

 

If your kids are reading novels in their SECOND language... I would not be worrying too much.  :-D  This is significantly more impressive than bilingual children reading in their two FIRST languages! 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Re the poetry, my degree is in poetry and I was published in books, magazines and anthologies in Aus before I had the kids...

 

A good Norton Anthology is always worthwhile ( and should have sections for a parent to use to self-educate themselves on poetic elements.)

 

I think analysis of poetry can wait quite a long while. The absolute best thing to do with poetry (imho) is to read it and read it ALOUD.

 

"What can you hear ?" is a great question to ask.

 

Poetry is much more about language and rhythms of language  than it is about isolating metaphors and understanding personification. Of course, these are all wonderful things to learn to identify as well, but they are somewhat side issues. The whole is always greater than the parts.

 

Listening to poetry is the way to go. Mum read, kids read, borrow readings on CD...

 

Try to get hold of Poetry Speaks: Hear Great Poets Read Their Own Work from Tennyson to Plath.

 

Let poems linger. They absolutely do not need to be explained or dissected immediately. If ever :)

 

Make friends with poems. Learn them by heart. (Mensa Kids has some good info on this ). Let them speak to you line by line.

 

Keep a copybook of favourite poems. Illustrate them.

 

Can you tell I love poetry ?  :)

 

I don't teach it to my own children. We read it as part of a normal reading life. I have one child who has poetic talent. She reads and writes, I help her edit, I watch her voice grow.

 

:001_wub: this post! And thanks for the Poetry Speaks suggestion.  My library has it, and a "for kids" version which I bet my 2nd grader will love.  Thank you!

[quark]

Just wanted to say to anyone freaking out, my parents read about two classics to me as a child and grew up into a person who can read and sometimes enjoy them (Not St Augustine. I don't enjoy St Augustine. I will never enjoy St Augustine!) I grew up on a diet of Enid Blyton (which now I'm reading them to my dd, I can recognise as good at best but plenty is really awful) and Heidi, What Katy Did and some of those old kids books my Mum grew up on. I'm very sure I'd be much better off with more intentional teaching, but even without it I haven't grown into an illiterate bum. :p

 

I agree. I grew up on a very steady diet of Ms Blyton's books and the older Hardy Boys and that's about it. We had those, a couple of encyclopedias and the rest of our reading was the daily newspapers (and oh ETA, Reader's Digest!). I felt so starved and I re-read Enid Blyton over and over again. We did not have a reliable library system where I am from. There was one in our city but we kids couldn't get the books we wanted. We are not native speakers of English but English is my first language because that's what we spoke most at home. It was only when I was about 14 and had access to a better stocked school library (my school was odd...we had a junior library for younger kids and a senior library and it was only at 14 that I had access to the senior library) and later, at about 16, was allowed by my parents to take public transportation alone to the British Council library (it took two buses and walking three miles one way to access every week and none of my friends wanted to do it with me) that I was able to read almost as much as I wanted, consuming the Thomas Hardys and Jane Austens and Charles Dickens and Daphne duMauriers that I could get my hands on. I felt lucky to be able to check them out three at a time (British Council rules).

 

Kiddo is also not a native speaker and like me English is his first language. We speak English with an Asian accent. But he was fed a very good diet of children's classics and like Ruth suggests we fed him harder and harder books as he was ready and gave him lots of time to read independently too. He chose to read Fagles' translations of Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid on his own and really liked them. He wanted to know what was so great about Don Quixote and Moby Dick and read the unabridged versions as a 9-year-old...they took him about a month each but he enjoyed them very much and loved talking about them. He recently finished Bleak House and was so in love with it that he is pestering me to read it (I can't get past the first third of the book!) so that we can watch the BBC series together and start discussing that.

 

One thing I've done with him is that we use the unabridged editions. He had become so used to reading those that from age 8+ he refused to read abridged ones. And I too use the psychological tactic of talking to him about the books I've enjoyed. I used to use examples from Shakespeare and Dickens (my personal favorites) in some conversations and he cottoned on to them (a budding Anglophile!).

 

Sometimes just talking about books in casual conversation works too well. :)

[stripe]

Second, I don't ever let them read anything but classics.

I really appreciate your post and think you have lots of excellent ideas.

 

However.

 

I have one child who reads lots of non-fiction, and has done since learning how to read, and another who read truckloads of folk tales, mostly Lang's fairy books but plenty of others of high quality or fame. I don't necessarily think either of those categories is a "classic," but I do think that they are important for reading, and neither is really a novel. Because one keeps a dictionary permanently in bed, and often reads that before sleeping. I don't require my children to read only novels; they enjoy magazines, and we subscribe to most of the Carus Publishing ones (Cricket, etc). So to me that sounds a bit limiting. I respect your viewpoint tremendously, but I don't follow this approach towards reading myself, because I do have kids who read extensively in bed and otherwise for pleasure.

 

I think sometimes expecting a kid to tackle something very difficult can be overwhelming. My mother gave me her favorites when I was a kid, which consisted of books by Faulkner and Shakespeare, which I was just not up to reading completely on my own, and it made me feel very stupid. Your idea of building up to things and having conversations about them is definitely helpful.

[Sarah0000]

Thank you everyone for the younger kid suggestions. And my library has a great selection of classic children's audiobooks too.

 

I was not raised in a literature rich home environment either. We had a set of encyclopedias, a giant dictionary (the kind they use to have on stands in libraries, anyone else miss those?) and a few random children's books relatives gave on birthdays including some children's classics. I can't completely remember how I got into the more advanced classic literature. I think the classics were sometimes mentioned in children's literature and I just followed through at the school library. My husband was raised in a very literature rich home environment, but is was mostly science fiction, some of which was classic but a lot that wasn't. He, nor his mother, can tolerate the "long, slow, and boring," in their words, advanced classics.

[Sarah0000]

*snippet

 

Because one keeps a dictionary permanently in bed, and often reads that before sleeping.

 

I thought I was the only one kid who ever read the dictionary for fun.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I really appreciate your post and think you have lots of excellent ideas.

 

However.

 

I have one child who reads lots of non-fiction, and has done since learning how to read, and another who read truckloads of folk tales, mostly Lang's fairy books but plenty of others of high quality or fame. I don't necessarily think either of those categories is a "classic," but I do think that they are important for reading, and neither is really a novel. Because one keeps a dictionary permanently in bed, and often reads that before sleeping. I don't require my children to read only novels; they enjoy magazines, and we subscribe to most of the Carus Publishing ones (Cricket, etc). So to me that sounds a bit limiting. I respect your viewpoint tremendously, but I don't follow this approach towards reading myself, because I do have kids who read extensively in bed and otherwise for pleasure.

 

I think sometimes expecting a kid to tackle something very difficult can be overwhelming. My mother gave me her favorites when I was a kid, which consisted of books by Faulkner and Shakespeare, which I was just not up to reading completely on my own, and it made me feel very stupid. Your idea of building up to things and having conversations about them is definitely helpful.

 

As read, I agree that it sounds harsh and limiting. From reading Ruth's other posts over the years though, I believe she is speaking only of literature. I know her boys read magazines, specifically National Geographic, because she has posted about it many times. They also read (and/or are read by her DH) nonfiction history. They probably read nonfiction science as well. And probably magazines. I don't know. She will come back and say, I'm sure (so I'll stop guessing, LOL).

 

Anyway, I admit to kind of choking on my own beliefs about kids' reading widely when I read that statement too, but I think she is limiting her thoughts in this thread to literature. I have a different approach than she does, even with lit, but I don't think she is as limiting as the OP makes her sound. :)

 

ETA: I will say also that I do think of folk tales, including Lang's books, as classics. 

[quark]

Yes, I think Ruth's boys definitely read magazines. Hee hee, feels odd speaking for Ruth but like AVA, I follow Ruth's posts and have always thought of her boys as widely read. But I think stripe's examples are also lit-based no? I liked stripe's post for that reason as well. We don't limit ourselves to classics for lit and stay clear away from twaddle (which will mean different things to different people) but there is a spectrum in between that we don't avoid as long as a book is well written.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yes, I think Ruth's boys definitely read magazines. Hee hee, feels odd speaking for Ruth but like AVA, I follow Ruth's posts and have always thought of her boys as widely read. But I think stripe's examples are also lit-based no? I liked stripe's post for that reason as well. We don't limit ourselves to classics for lit and stay clear away from twaddle (which will mean different things to different people) but there is a spectrum in between that we don't avoid as long as a book is well written.

 

Right. When I said I like for my kids to read widely, that was euphemistic code for the fact that I have zero problem with Harry Potter (which I think will be on a classics list in 100 years) or Percy Jackson (which I hope will not, LOL, although I do think they are enjoyable). Heck, my kids spent a good month reading the Bad Kitty books over and over last year, and they are decidedly below level and not exactly highfalutin fare. And Marvel comics. :leaving:

 

But they read classics too. And the vast majority of what they read is good, solid material that I would be proud to list here (although I am too lazy to actually maintain lists). If they stopped reading classics (or backslid when reading "lesser" books like Ruth said her boys did), I would probably severely limit their exposure to the simple stuff. But thankfully we don't have that problem. 

 

(Hey, Merriam-Webster says highfalutin is an actual word! Who knew? I thought it was high fallutin'. I am not high fallutin' I guess. LOL)