Reading curriculum for child who struggles w/auditory processing

[Jenn in CA]

Background:

My 6yo has strong signs of auditory processing difficulties. She's never been formally tested but just a lot of little things I see.

 

I have been reading Dianne Craft's website and she has most of the characteristics of auditory processing that she lists.

 

I wouldn't say she's way behind for her age, but she's definitely lagging. She's also ELL, having been adopted from Africa at age 3.5. 

 

She's very bright and curious, and has determination that puts most of us to shame. But school-type learning is very hard for her.

 

Anyway. After a year of K and reading instruction (veeery slow and methodical, using a ps phonics program called Read Well that actually, I really like) and seeing that it's not getting easier, I'm ready to try a reading program that would help her.

 

I ordered Craft's Brain Integration Therapy manual, but what would be an appropriate reading program? Is Barton suited to help w/reading difficulty due to auditory problems?

I'm getting the idea that Lindamood-Bell addresses auditory issues in particular, and I'm opening to trying those materials but I don't feel like I know which to get or whether she's "severe" enough that those would help. Visualize & Verbalize seems esp. appropriate for her difficulties.

[PeterPan]

Have you thought about getting evals through the ps?  Pricepoint would be right (free) and the IQ scores would give you a quick indication of whether you're right in your assumption that it's an APD.  (You'll typically expect to see a gap between verbal and performance IQ scores.)  

[LaughingCat]

Lindamood LIPS is the reading program I would suggest from that tiny bit of info.  Did you try the Barton test to see if she 'needs' LIPS? 

 

And although Barton suggests LIPS only in certain circumstances, that is really only the very first part --  the rest of the program is probably for kids less severe than need Barton because it appears to go much faster.   I have seen it suggested elsewhere recently that if you find you need LIPS that you can try going througth the whole program and only if your DC struggles with the pace go to Barton.

 

And FWIW I am using it (very gently) for my NT just turned 5 yo (I wouldn't have bought it for this but since I had it already....)

 

[Jenn in CA]

Thanks so much for your replies!

 

OhElizabeth: What kind of eval specifically? I homeschool thru the public school system, and actually I'm meeting w/my school's special ed person in a couple weeks. Is the end of K too young to do an eval?

LaughingCat: Thanks for the link. I didn't know Barton recommended LiPS. I looked at the screening a year ago. It didn't seem appropriate for her age (5). I will look at it again.

 

 

[Jenn in CA]

LaughingCat: I just did the Barton screening. She failed A and B, and after 2 questions on part C, where she was completely confused and could not repeat the sounds in order back to me, I decided to try that again later. Maybe she needs a lot more intervention than I realized.

 

Thanks for passing that on. We have a LMB center in town. I think I will get her evaluated there.

 

Back to LiPS: Is it hard to do yourself? And do you use it to teach them how to read?

[LaughingCat]

FWIW, when I tried the Barton screening on my then not yet 5 yo ( a few months back) due to a different thread - she completely failed A - she didn't 'get' what was wanted at all.  She also failed C by 1 and I think there was some confusion about what was wanted there too - but also, to my surprise, clearly some confusion about certain of the 'harder' sounds speech wise.   I believe on the other thread OhElizabeth said that Ms. Barton had told her that a 5 year old should be able to take the test, but I wonder a bit about understanding of what is wanted.

 

I have heard that Lindamood centers are quite expensive and rarely focus on LIPS style issues - but that is 2nd hand at best (from yahoo lists mostly), I have never been to one. 

 

I found LIPS easy to do with my older DD with just manual and extra DVD's (and think I probably didn't need the extra DVDs even) with homemade mouth and letter 'tiles'.    LIPS made a huge difference in her 'mixing' up of sounds in words - something ST had not touched at all.   With DD the older we followed the main 'path' which teaches all the sounds at once and has a nice flow especially for all the vowel sounds - but  my younger is definitely not ready for that and needs the 'teach a few consonants and vowel sounds first' path.  And I have found doing it with my younger, using this alternate path for a beginning reader to be more of a struggle.  Although I think it is the flipping around in the book that makes it seem much harder for me- I have been thinking about copying/cutting pages and making my own 'just do the next thing' version.   

[PeterPan]

Yes, I did the Barton pretest with my 5 yo and he flopped miserably.  When I called the number, Barton herself answered.  I had heard she would take calls like that, but I never really EXPECTED it, kwim?  She was very gracious and confirmed that the pre-test should be fine for a typical 5 yo and that it was not jumping the gun to intervene.  Yes, LIPS is what she recommends for that.  The Barton pre-test actually has a number of things it's testing (I forget what all, sorry), and apparently LIPS addresses most of them.  

 

My ds has verbal apraxia, so we're doing the vertical path, as LaughingCat mentioned, and we're doing it as slowly and tediously as necessary to get the click.  Actually, we're not doing just that.  I also have worksheets someone sent me from their therapy days where they were working on auditory discrimination.  They're from a workbook Attention Good Listeners by DeGaetano.  Anyways, that is what FINALLY got some things to click on my ds with hearing individual sounds in words.  Before that, he couldn't hear individual sounds AT ALL.  Not end consonants, nothing.  

 

So yes, with the vertical path you use one vowel and a few consonants and start applying them.  I'm dreadfully hack in everything I do, so at this point we're just doing it our way.  It seems to be working though.  I merge the mouth images with the way we approach formation for our speech therapy and we make our own terms for everything.  Theirs weren't the best, just my two cents.  

 

Just for the trivia of whoever is curious, what we are doing is setting them up sort of like AAS, on a whiteboard.  I'm using Lauri puzzle piece letters.  So you have the mouth images in a column, and beside them the letters.  We warm up by drilling through them (coughers, /k/, /g/, tappers, /t/, /d/, and so on) and running through a column of words from elizabethb's links where he's just parsing the sounds he hears.  Then we pick 3, only 3 words from there, and he builds them using his pool of letters on the whiteboard.  So in SWR style we say the word, he identifies the sounds, then he pulls them down.  He usually forgets the 3rd sound and then the word itself (working memory, ugh), so we go back and remind ourselves of the word.  He builds, reads, then puts the letters back, saying their sounds.  Given some back channel feedback, I'll probably start doing the inverse as well, making short words for him to read.  

 

I tried adding in a 2nd vowel and it did not go well.  For now we're just going to stick with our one vowel and some consonants.  Just the fact that he can hear them at all is progress.  It's not a race.

[PeterPan]

LMB is tutoring, not a psych.  It's nothing official that you could use for IEP, college board (testing) accommodations, etc.  It's really aimed at convincing you to use their shockingly expensive services.  I'm just jaded after watching person after person come on the boards here and tell how they did testing for hundreds of dollars through some tutoring center and got enough info to know something was wrong but not enough to know what to do about it and then a bonus hard sell on services they couldn't afford.  That's my two cents not having used them.  I'm sure someone is happy with their experience, just saying be careful as not everyone looks back in hind site and is glad they went that way.

 

The ps will do the evals for free, or if you have insurance or the cash you can pay and get it done privately.  Quality of the ps evals varies with the school district, so ask around.  

 

A proper CAPD eval is done with booths by an audiologist.  When I called a good audiologist near us, they wanted a full psych eval (psychological) and a full SLP eval before they would even see you.  They look at the psych results to see if there's that discrepancy between verbal and performance on the IQ testing.  They look at the SLP eval to make sure it's not accounted for by a language disability or something needing therapy.  Only then would they take you in.  Some are also going to want adhd treated.  

 

My two cents is that lots of places will take your $$.  You only have so much, so make sure you're paying for evals at the place that gets you the help you need.  If it's actually CAPD, you're going to need actual evals, not a tutoring place, and she's the right age to start in that process.

[LaughingCat]

Great ideas OhElizabeth! One of the things I had been struggling with is there aren't all that many real words with the few consonants we've done and 1 vowel sound (we have talked about 3 for the 3 main vowel mouth shapes - but I didn't want to confuse things too much so have mostly stuck to 1 for now).  The whole vowel thing has seemed so much harder this time - I suppose presenting them all at once to an older child allows the discussion of the flow - wide to narrow lips, tongue front to back, that the vertical path doesn't allow (and I don't think little DD would get the subtleties of that yet anyway)

 

Plus reading your post I realized that older DD and I pretty much dropped the whole name thing by the end, just using the pictures - and I haven't been using them with little DD because of that.    I will have to rethink that since I can see how your names kinda bring up a picture of what to do.

 

ETA: Duh! just realized I could use a scrabble word finder to find more words with certain letters (I know I can use nonsense words but with this DD at this age I'd be setting myself up for long discussions on why those words don't mean anything - after all the 'what does that mean?' questions)

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Earobics software helped my LD dd at age 7 and 8 ( 1 and 2), but she has not been diagnosed with any specific problem.  

 

ElizabethB has a free site http://www.thephonicspage.org/  I highly recommend ( and take your time reading through this) There are videos, a printable game, and a plethura of information about teaching reading.

 

 

[PeterPan]

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/remedial_reading_drills.pdf

 

That took some work to find, whew!  It was a link ElizabethB had shared in this thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/506440-10yrs-old-child/?do=findComment&comment=5510945  It just sort of gelled in my mind how to use them.  You'll see the first page uses limited (slowly increasing) consonants and a single vowel.  That's crazy easy to use with LIPS.

 

We've worked our way through most of Earobics, and it did nothing for my ds' problems.  He started to hear rhyming, but it was very hard and frustrated him.  The clown game uses working memory but wasn't that effective for him.  I think for him, with his speech issue and whatever else is going on, it's too many things at once.  We're actually going to have to go back and reset some of the games and do them over to see if he does better with them this time.  I just wasn't pleased.  It ought to have been good for us and just didn't seem to actually accomplish anything.  He still couldn't hear individual sounds in words, couldn't functionally rhyme, etc. etc.  

[Ottakee]

What worked for our daughter was www.3rsplus.com  or www.iseesam.com and then after set 3 starting Dancing Bears and after set 5 Apples and Pears spelling.  She had a lot of auditory issues but this worked for her.

 

An evaluation would be helpful as well.

[Jenn in CA]

So, when I meet with my school's special Ed teacher, what kind of eval should I ask for?

 

She had an eval with a SLP which showed her about a year behind but with no auditory processing difficulty. She would have to show more need before our insurance (Kaiser) would continue with other testing.

 

I just gave my 5yo that Barton screening and she flew through it, didn't miss a thing, even part C. So I'm really ready to get my 6yo more help.

[PeterPan]

So, when I meet with my school's special Ed teacher, what kind of eval should I ask for?

 

She had an eval with a SLP which showed her about a year behind but with no auditory processing difficulty. She would have to show more need before our insurance (Kaiser) would continue with other testing.

 

I just gave my 5yo that Barton screening and she flew through it, didn't miss a thing, even part C. So I'm really ready to get my 6yo more help.

Well I think if you just tell the lady what you know (what the SLP eval showed and what's happening when you teach her), they're going to have some advice.  

 

What they told us around here is to start by asking nicely.  IF the district is homeschooler friendly or just inclined to help you, you might get quite a bit of help.  If that initial talk doesn't go well, then you talk with somebody in the know on how to do the written request for an eval.  I'm not up on it all, but that's the advice I was given.  Start by asking nicely and see where that gets you.  If that doesn't work, you do the formal written request and that starts the whole legal procedure (a certain number of days, blah blah). 

 

So you have a meeting scheduled?  Oh sorry I didn't answer your question.  I'm terrible with terms.  Around here you go in rounds, first a round to see if you need an eval, then another round with an actual psychologist for a full psych eval.  Hopefully they'll explain.  :)

[Jenn in CA]

Yes, I have a meeting scheduled for a week from now. I homeschool thru a public charter school that has its own special ed teacher so I'm meeting w/her.

 

Thanks for all the help! 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Well good, then they're presumably inclined to help you!   :)   Just remember the federal law (so far as I was told, but I could be wrong) says from the time you write that letter they have x# days to do the eval.  If the charter balks and doesn't want to do evals but you think they need to be done, stand your ground.  The $$ issue definitely impacts these discussions.  But hopefully that doesn't happen.  Hopefully they just smother you with help. Let us know how it goes!   :)

[Lecka]

I would want another speech eval and ask "at what point would she be behind enough to qualify?" 

 

I looked into the Dianne Craft Brain program at one point ----- and it turns out that my son did (what appears to be) several things from it in occupational therapy.  So if you are looking at that ---- I would ask for OT also. 

 

My son has had speech therapy and OT, and those are the only evals I know anything about.  I would try for any eval possible, though. 

 

I am curious about your comment that you think Visualizing and Verbalizing would be very good for her.  It is mainly a comprehension program.  If you think she has weaknesses in auditory processing and comprehension both ----- be aware that a program targeting one will not target the other.  If she has both needs ---- you may need to do more than one thing. 

 

There is a website I like (for reading) called readingrockets.org.  If you go to "helping struggling readers" and then "target the problem" it has a list of possible weaknesses contributing to a problem in reading.  One area is "phonological and phonemic awareness" and that is foundational to phonics/decoding and fluency.  Lips and Barton are targeting that direction. 

 

Then there is vocabulary and comprehension.  They have different kinds of interventions.  They also can depend a lot on oral language development, and if she has weaker oral language --- then things (not in the scope of just reading, probably) for oral language development would be good, too.  I don't know a lot about that (my younger son has a language delay, but he has autism so I mostly look at autism-specific things -- but I have heard Hanen It Takes Two to Talk is good for language delays for a lot of kids, and it is not about autism).  But anyway -- Visualizing and Verbalizing is targeting comprehension. 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Lecka, the author (Guffanti) of Reading Rockets came to our convention last year.  He's dyslexic, an MD, and his wife developed the curriculum.  I can't remember if they homeschooled?  Anyway, their niche in the world was dyslexic and adhd kids needing a *kinesthetic* approach to learning to read.  That was the big distinguisher of the program, all the kinesthetic stuff they add.  I didn't buy it at that time, though I did buy another book he was selling.  If he's there again, I may look it over again.

 

And yes, V/V is for people who have comprehension issues due to lack of visualizing.  If someone is dealing with that, they probably ought to back up and get their eyes checked first by a developmental optometrist to see if that's at the root.

[Jenn in CA]

 

And yes, V/V is for people who have comprehension issues due to lack of visualizing.  If someone is dealing with that, they probably ought to back up and get their eyes checked first by a developmental optometrist to see if that's at the root.

 

Thank you, OhE and Lecka for mentioning this. I hadn't thought about comprehension being different from auditory processing. I made a list of my 6yo's difficulties. Perhaps someone could help me categorize them by what kind of issues they are?

 

*Very difficult time understanding stories; the simplest story she'll finally be able to "narrate" back to me after she's heard it and we've talked about it many times

 

*doesn't grasp new words used in context

 

*when listening to a story, catches a word she knows and asks out-of-context questions about what's happening based on that one word

 

*very poor word recall, even common words she should know (what's it called when they can't think of the word? hehe, it's what I'm doing right now)

 

*slow "reaction time", very difficult time switching mid-stream; for ex. she's running towards the stairs, and I call her name, it could be 2 full seconds before she stops and turns to me; however if she's just sitting on the couch, she'll turn immediately

 

**Very poor working memory: can't remember sequences, very hard time listening to a sentence without pictures then picking out of 3 pictures which one is based on the sentence

 

*Mixes up consonants in multisyllabic words, such as saying "Jofess" for Joseph

 

**Gets sounds of h,m,n mixed up in reading practice (we've been using a phonics curriculum 3x/week called ReadWell)

 

**Sounds words out every time; "th" she continues to sound t and h separately

 

**Adds extra sounds to words, then after I tell her it's wrong she resorts to guessing

 

*When practicing reading, she heavily uses guessing based on pictures/context

 

-----

The ** items she'll improve if I'm working on them daily, but after a couple weeks of not practicing, she seems to have lost the improvement.

 

I also finished giving the Barton screening. She failed A and B. For C, only about half the items could she repeat back to me correctly the first time; afterwards she could do the colored-square task correctly. The rest, she couldn't repeat back until after many repeats, but then she could do the square task. (although one time, by the time she put the colored squares down, she couldn't remember the 3rd sound any more)

 

I called and spoke to Susan Barton who confirmed that yes, she failed C even though she was able to do the squares task; she says LiPS will help, and that I should go to a trained tutor (I'm assuming that means don't do it myself). Does anyone have thoughts on whether I can do LiPS myself? I think LaughingCat, you said you do it yourself? Is there a lot of training or watching training DVDs involved?

 

I have a LMB center 30 min away... I'm ready to throw lots of money at this issue but I also get the idea that these tutoring centers are vendors for their unique solutions, not clearinghouses for all the solutions out there, and I just do not know how to figure out which solution is best.

 

I would really like to see a flow chart of all the different causes of dyslexia and the appropriate curricula/solutions!

 

Am I right in saying that dyslexia is a catch-all term for all reading difficulties, which could have many different causes?

[Lecka]

No ----- although different people can mean different things when talking about dyslexia, because it is not DSM V ----- in general dyslexia is going to be a problem with phonological/phonemic awareness and decoding ONLY and NOT INCLUDE problems with comprehension.  That is like ---- for a "phonemic awareness" model, that is described in the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz, and it is the kind where Barton is recommended.  

 

A few things on the list seem like that ----- the saying "joseph" as "jofess" seems like that, the letter sounds sound like that.  

 

On the letter sounds ----- my son was severe (straight up severe, he was 3 years delayed when he was 6) and he did speech therapy.... he did similar to Lips, but if you are considering throwing money, I would throw money at a speech therapist instead of a tutor at a tutoring center.  If you can find a good therapist, who has experience with this thing ---- not someone who just does articulation.  There are speech therapists who use Lips, too.  I would rather have someone with a degree and experience.... my understanding of LMB centers is that the tutors are starting out and do not have a degree in speech therapy (I could be wrong ---- that is an impression).

 

If you want to see a list of the dyslexia-seeming things ---- look at the Barton reading website.  My son only has a few symptoms, so I do not know all about all of them.  

 

There are people here who have done Lips themselves... my son I don't think I could have.  He had very severe speech articulation, though, he was like ---- hearing sounds so poorly he had trouble saying them at all, he was non-stimulable with multiple sounds, etc etc.  So ---- it is really beyond what I could have done, and he also could not bear to be corrected by me with his speech.  

 

My son did 8 months of private speech (he still did school speech before and after ---- he had no progress in school speech in the letter sounds, he needed to go to the university speech clinic here and have one-on-one to make progress).  Then he was MUCH better with his letter sounds and his speech.  But he still did another 18 months of school speech therapy. 

 

Some of the other things you are saying, I am not as familiar with.  But they sound like possibly comprehension, also possibly expressive and receptive language.  I do not know as much about these, or where I do, my kids are probably not similar (since my younger son with language delay has autism). 

 

Then the word recall, I have seen mentioned with dyslexia, but I don't know about it.  I do not know about the slow reaction time, either.  

 

 

Edit:  yes, different causes for dyslexia ----- but in general, it is really just a problem with physically reading words on a page..... it does not have to do with comprehension.  From what I read ---- the "phonemic awareness" is the most common but not only cause (though it is hard to say).  But even then ---- if a child can read the words but not understand what is read, that is not dyslexia.  So those are reading problems that are not considered "dyslexia," they are just  other categories of reading problems.  

 

If you have more than one category to deal with, then you can't only use a dyslexia program like Barton -- it will not address the other categories.  

 

But -- with Lips, maybe she will hear words more clearly, and it will help her overall, too.  There is overlap, too.  Like -- if she is having poor story narration partly b/c she hasn't completely understand what words you are saying --- that could help.  But even with my son pretty affected -- he had good comprehension when he had pictures available, too.  He always had good oral language, too (if you could understand what he was saying).  His oral language was actually advanced (we found out at the speech clinic ----- like, if they asked him to describe a picture, and didn't take into account his articulation, he got a very high score).  So ---- I do NOT think, that I would count on Lips to improve things to where her narration and stuff improves, I would look at that separately.  But -- it could really help, too.  

 

Edit again -----  I made an assumption that you would be looking at doing Lips at a LMB center.  I do not have an opinion about doing Visualizing and Verbalizing there ----- I really do not know much about it.  I have been very impressed by a speech therapy student who works with my son, though ----- she is very good with language.  She is working as a tutor through an ABA agency (for autism), so it is not the same kind of thing as your daughter might need.  But, I would wonder if you could look into what a speech therapist might do with her.  And, there are also people who do Visualizing and Verbalizing as parents.  But I really do not know about VV very much, and also, we are nowhere near a LMB center, so I have (naturally) felt like "well you don't need an LMB center" if you know what I mean (since there is no way for us to do it without going to stay in a town with a center).  If people locally like it ---- that counts for a lot!

 

If you can find a good speech therapist (or maybe even more than one, if they do not have the same specialties), that might be an option. 

 

I think you need to see what you can find out locally ----- I am in a small town, and some things we just do not have.

 

But in a larger town, you might have many more options! 

 

Also -- if you got a private eval you might get good recommendations that way!

 

Edit again:  I think a "trained tutor" means someone who has attended a training for Lips?  It might be a speech therapist. 

 

I was told when I started with my son -- that it often takes 3 months of speech therapy.  But it took 8 months for him.  But -- he is greatly improved now. 

[Lecka]

If you go to superduperinc.com and search lips -- you can see it.  Or google "super duper lips."  You can see some of it.  My son did not "do lips" but he did the same kind of thing. 

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Let's go back to square one.  The major book to bring you up to speed on APD is When the Brain Can't Hear.  Obviously you need to get that from the library and read it.

 

To get full, proper APD evals, you need an audiologist with the proper booth set-up.  This is not some common, run of the mill thing you find with your local audiologist.  You may need to go to a children's hospital or a major practice in a large city to get it.  If you get a lesser eval there are things that can be missed, giving you a false positive.  

 

When you find a place near you that does this full eval in a booth, they may have things they want done first.  When I called a place in our area (trying to decide about my dd and whether to pursue evals), they said they would not do the APD eval without a full psych eval AND a speech eval.  

 

A speech therapist (SLP=speech language pathologist) does much more than articulation.  Find who your preferred audiologist recommends and go to them.  The SLPs have testing that looks for auditory processing problems and distinguish phonological processing from auditory processing.  They'll also look for language-based problems. Some of those problems will be within the province of the SLP to treat.  From your list, it sounds like you might benefit from this.  The audiologist may require you to do it.

 

The psychologist can be a neuropsych, plain psych, whatever, but you would do well to look for one is homeschool-friendly and well-regarded.  Try googling your state and CAPD and psychologist and see who pops up.  There might be one who's known for being especially good with it.  The psych is not an audiologist and isn't specifically looking for CAPD.  He's looking for the REST and for the trail of symptoms.  For instance, when he/she administers IQ testing, you'll get overall verbal and performance (non-verbal) scores.  Often with APD you're going to see a big gap there, a discrepancy, and that will be a HUGE clue to pursue the audiologist eval.  

 

Clear as mud?  It may take more than one eval, might take all three to get to the bottom of it.  You just have to start somewhere and see what that turns up, then do the next, then the next.  

 

The ps system will do some of that testing.  How much they do depends on how plush their budget is, how inclined they are to help homeschoolers, etc.  If your system is helpful, it's definitely a place to look.  Talk with other homeschoolers in your area who have used them to find out who to contact, how friendly they are, etc.  Since you're talking with this special ed teacher, you're wanting to know how helpful the evals tend to be that the school does and whether they can take her all the way through the speech and psych evals to lead to the booth audiologist eval if necessary, or if in reality it needs to be done privately.  Just depends on your school district.

 

 

*Very difficult time understanding stories; the simplest story she'll finally be able to "narrate" back to me after she's heard it and we've talked about it many times

 

*doesn't grasp new words used in context

 

*Mixes up consonants in multisyllabic words, such as saying "Jofess" for Joseph

 

**Gets sounds of h,m,n mixed up in reading practice (we've been using a phonics curriculum 3x/week called ReadWell)

Those are the ones that would push me toward wanting that SLP eval.

 

 

*when listening to a story, catches a word she knows and asks out-of-context questions about what's happening based on that one word

 

*very poor word recall, even common words she should know (what's it called when they can't think of the word? hehe, it's what I'm doing right now)

 

*slow "reaction time", very difficult time switching mid-stream; for ex. she's running towards the stairs, and I call her name, it could be 2 full seconds before she stops and turns to me; however if she's just sitting on the couch, she'll turn immediately

 

**Very poor working memory: can't remember sequences, very hard time listening to a sentence without pictures then picking out of 3 pictures which one is based on the sentence

These indicate the value of the psych eval.   (processing speed, working memory, attention, word retrieval)

 

 

*When practicing reading, she heavily uses guessing based on pictures/context

 

I would stop the forced reading for now.  Not only are there obviously some issues with how she connects print and sound, but she *could* have a vision problem on top of it.  You have no clue till you work through the process. Disclaimer: I'm biased against forced reading.  I think students should only be asked to decode (read) words they can encode (spell).

 

 

I have a LMB center 30 min away... I'm ready to throw lots of money at this issue but I also get the idea that these tutoring centers are vendors for their unique solutions, not clearinghouses for all the solutions out there, and I just do not know how to figure out which solution is best.

 

I would really like to see a flow chart of all the different causes of dyslexia and the appropriate curricula/solutions!

 

Am I right in saying that dyslexia is a catch-all term for all reading difficulties, which could have many different causes?

Never fear, there are plenty of places willing to TAKE your money.   :lol:   PLEASE slow down and research before plunking out money.  Even people willing to spend a *lot* will find their stash runs low as they go through psych evals ($1500), SLP eval ($250-500), audiologist evals (I forget, but at least $1K) and change all their curriculum and hire tutors.

 

I also humbly suggest that thinking strictly in terms of the label dyslexia will mislead you at this point.  There are an alphabet soup of overlapping labels and issues that the DSM tries to separate only somewhat successfully.  It's not like it's dyslexia OR adhd OR CAPD OR...  You'll get a discrete label (or three), yes, but they overlap.  Without the testing, you'd be a gypsy savant to figure it out.  Seriously.  So don't decide on the label.  Get the evals and let them figure out the label.

 

And no, I can't even think of a nice term for how unequivocally I would NOT send that child to a tutoring place without proper testing first.  Get the testing, establish the baseline, see what's going on.  THEN do the interventions.  You could spend thousands with LMB and realize she has something underlying it that they can't even treat.  They're sort of superficial, symptomatic intervention in that sense.

 

We're using LIPS btw, and yes Barton told me the same thing on the phone about how it was so stink in' hard to implement that most people cry out for a tutor.  Whatever, hasn't been my experience.  Admittedly though, I taught SWR (an OG-spinoff) to my dd a lot of years, took linguistics in college (meaning all those mouth diagrams actually make sense to me), and have worked with my ds' speech therapist to learn the techniques of the mouth formations for speech (meaning the pictures make sense).  I teach it my own way because I can, and we're doing GREAT.  So absolutely, everyone comes to it with their background and comfort zone.  

 

Also, people use LIPS for different things.  When I told our SLP I was looking into LIPS, she was HORRIFIED, thinking I was going to use it as some kind of speech instruction.  My ds has verbal apraxia, a motor control problem, and no ability to imitate.  Apparently some places will attempt to use LIPS stuff for apraxia therapy, and that's going to be less than ideal.  That's a whole bag of worms.  I'm just saying the materials are flexible and you can use them for what you need WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED.  Right now you don't KNOW what you need because you haven't had evals.

 

 If you get the evals, you may uncover things to target that aren't even on your radar right now.  We just had another person get a full SLP eval for their dd with language comprehension issues (but no CAPD), and the dc needed some really targeted intervention that the SLP could guide them in.  Your dc might benefit from a combination of things.  We can think of some here on the boards, but the fact is without the evals you aren't identifying those areas and targeting them.  You'd be spending money shooting in the dark.  I'm SO glad you perceive the need and are willing to pay and sacrifice to get the interventions, but choose with information.  Even for the richest, the money can run out.  All these therapists are $100+ an hour.  I found a great EF (executive function) coach near us, $150 an hour!!!!!   :svengo: This is a marathon, not a sprint.  You're not going to spend $1500 at one place and have it be over.  So pace yourself and choose very wisely.  

 

 

[Lecka]

/agree

 

You can ask the special ed teacher for names, too.  You can ask about names of speech therapists or clinics.  You can ask about places for evals. 

 

You can also ask if the school district owns Lips, if anyone is using it.  Maybe you could see it or (possibly) even borrow it.  Maybe you could find a name of someone who has experience using it and could tutor after school. 

 

But I agree ----- it sounds better to do the eval and then make choices.

 

But just to collect information about options, you still might ask the special ed teacher since you are seeing her anyway, and maybe she has a lot of information like that.   

 

 

[Jenn in CA]

Thanks for your detailed replies, OhE and Lecka. I really appreciate them. I get what you're saying about evals and figuring out exactly what's going on before starting w/a solution. 

 

I will look for the APD book, and keep trying to understand all this stuff and where to go from here.

 

 

Also the SLP being able to distinguish between APD and phonological processing, that's a major light bulb for me. The SLP we saw 9 months ago was so unhelpful. Maybe her focus was on articulation. 

 

I did a major research binge in the fall. I was getting the idea from my reading that she was too young (just started K) to diagnose a learning disability. Also the SLP felt like she was going to outgrow a lot of things. The SLP did not recommend testing for an auditory processing disorder and that's the only way I could get it thru Kaiser. I think I'm going to try that path again and see where it goes. Also talking to the special ed teacher and see where that goes.

 

I guess I could also call a private audiologist (the "booth" kind) and ask what testing they need to see?

 

My other Kaiser option is that I can get a referral to a developmental pediatric specialist who deals w/delays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LaughingCat]

My experience with SLP's through the school system and (highly recommended) private was - no improvement.  I have heard incredible things about various SLP's online but my experience is - you would have to know what you are looking for or be lucky. 

 

I heard about LIPS in various dyslexia related places including this forum for  long time before I bit the bullet and bought it.  I also spent a lot more on a speech evaluation and therapy than I did on LIPS and got far more value from LIPS.   So evaluations are good but I think there is something to be said for just trying something on your own (also after much research!) and seeing how that goes.

 

 

*Mixes up consonants in multisyllabic words, such as saying "Jofess" for Joseph

 

**Gets sounds of h,m,n mixed up in reading practice (we've been using a phonics curriculum 3x/week called ReadWell)

**Adds extra sounds to words, then after I tell her it's wrong she resorts to guessing

 

 

These are the types of things LIPS helped with here - it didn't 'fix' other problems (including working memory/processing issues) or make her a 'reader' or , even affect her  'mush mouth' speaking (as someone named it on a different thread I was reading) but it had a huge affect on this, which had been otherwise unaffected by ST.  

 

note: my DD did this type of thing regularly in speech as well and it was mostly odd mixups, not the more typical 'pasgetti for spagetti' that a little kid might say - instead she would often add and/or delete letters or sounds, not just mix up the actual sounds that were there.  Thankfully it's been long enough now that I can't think of an example off the top of my head.

 

ETA: I realized I should add that I got some useful information out of the private speech evaluation just no results from the therapy.

[geodob]

Perhaps you could try doing a 'Rapid Naming Test' with her?

Which just involves having her name things that you point at in photographs?

Where from what you've outlined, she would quite likely be quite slow at this?

 

While this is used as a test.  It can also be used as a daily exercise.

Where research has shown that this can increase the speed and accuracy of word retrieval.

Which essentially develops a stronger connection between our visual and auditory cortexes.

 

As well as improve direct recall of words from auditory memory.

It's something that you can identify an improvement, by regularly doing timed tests and recording the number done.

To show whether their is an increasing improvement or not?

[Jenn in CA]

Perhaps you could try doing a 'Rapid Naming Test' with her?

Which just involves having her name things that you point at in photographs?

Where from what you've outlined, she would quite likely be quite slow at this?

 

While this is used as a test.  It can also be used as a daily exercise.

Where research has shown that this can increase the speed and accuracy of word retrieval.

Which essentially develops a stronger connection between our visual and auditory cortexes.

 

As well as improve direct recall of words from auditory memory.

It's something that you can identify an improvement, by regularly doing timed tests and recording the number done.

To show whether their is an increasing improvement or not?

 

Thanks geodob. This is helpful. It is helpful to hear that practicing actually helps long-term, that it's not just a "parlor trick" which doesn't affect everyday life.

[PeterPan]

My experience with SLP's through the school system and (highly recommended) private was - no improvement.  I have heard incredible things about various SLP's online but my experience is - you would have to know what you are looking for or be lucky. 

 

I heard about LIPS in various dyslexia related places including this forum for  long time before I bit the bullet and bought it.  I also spent a lot more on a speech evaluation and therapy than I did on LIPS and got far more value from LIPS.   So evaluations are good but I think there is something to be said for just trying something on your own (also after much research!) and seeing how that goes.

 

I think the issue there could be the time/cost.  My understanding is that many SLPs do a short eval and then eval more on the fly as they do therapy.  Our SLP does new evals every 6 months or so.  There are just lots of these evals/tests they can run for specific things.  My ds is very distractible, very talkative, very sensitive, and so to work with him and run all the tests she'd like to right now (2 tests, one for phonological processing, one for auditory processing) would take *6 hours*.  Yup, 6 hours at $110 an hour!!  I can get a full psych eval for $1500.  

 

That would be really surprising to me if the ps system were paying for that amount of time with a SLP, to do THAT much testing.  Yes there are different forms, blah blah.  (I'm not an SLP.)  

 

So what they can do and what they will do in a given situation are two different things.  And that whole discussion glosses over the point that they're not all equal.  You get jack of all trades SLPs ,and you get SLPs who bust their butts to become the best at treating xyz.  They both cost the same amount and both put on their websites they'll take you.  That to me SUCKS, because you're talking about my kid.  

 

LIPS and the idea of really digging in on phonemic awareness very slowly and carefully is very powerful.  It blows my mind what it's doing for ds.  Actually what blows my mind is what he CAN'T do.  He can just down break down the three sounds in a simple cvc word with a limited consonant pool and only A for the vowel.  Get to feeling confident and try a 4th sound?  Forget about it.  We're totally in for the long haul I guess.  But with LIPS I'm actually seeing progress.  He's even sitting with me and decoding the beginning Bob Books!  He doesn't APPRECIATE it, but he's doing it.  I figure I'm doing a lot less mental harm having him sit down and work in brief, 10 minute sessions each day and helping him get through this than I am if I let it go and he can't read at xyz age when he really starts noticing.

 

Now if only night time pottying had solutions the way the reading does...

[Jenn in CA]

That is encouraging. I will feel more confident just trying LiPS... tomorrow is the long-anticipated meeting w/special ed teacher, we will see.

 

Night Time potty: Speaking of expensive but effective solutions, we used the "Malem ultimate Bedwetting alarm". Worked great w/both the girls (started it last summer). Only took a few weeks to get to 90% of the time dry all night. 

 

 

 

 

[Jenn in CA]

So, I met w/the special ed teacher [i homeschool thru a charter school]. She said that they won't do any testing in K, and that was that. She said she would look into Barton, had never heard of Lindamood-Bell.

 

While I was sitting talking to my own teacher [who supervises my kids' progress], another mom said, "I heard you talking about Barton. Go to Mrs. ______ [the special ed teacher's boss] and she can get you Barton. I use it with my son."

 

Sure enough, it is available for me to bring home and use. So I should get it this coming week.

 

No one there has experience w/LiPS.

 

So, my plan is to start Barton w/both my K'ers. We'll get it going now and work on it thru the summer. If my 6yo (the one I was originally posting about) stalls out or has trouble, I will buy LiPS and do it w/her.

 

Any thoughts? I haven't looked at Barton but i'm guessing it's not exactly meant for 5/6 yo's, and I'll have to go slower or adapt. Anyone want to share tips for using it in K? They have learned most of their letters; writing's a pretty slow process.

Also does LiPS teach how to read in addition to phonemic awareness?

 

BTW I also just started Dianne Craft's Brain Integration Therapy with them both. I'm hoping maybe this will help get them over the hump.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

So, I met w/the special ed teacher [i homeschool thru a charter school]. She said that they won't do any testing in K, and that was that. She said she would look into Barton, had never heard of Lindamood-Bell.

 

While I was sitting talking to my own teacher [who supervises my kids' progress], another mom said, "I heard you talking about Barton. Go to Mrs. ______ [the special ed teacher's boss] and she can get you Barton. I use it with my son."

 

Sure enough, it is available for me to bring home and use. So I should get it this coming week.

 

No one there has experience w/LiPS.

 

So, my plan is to start Barton w/both my K'ers. We'll get it going now and work on it thru the summer. If my 6yo (the one I was originally posting about) stalls out or has trouble, I will buy LiPS and do it w/her.

 

Any thoughts? I haven't looked at Barton but i'm guessing it's not exactly meant for 5/6 yo's, and I'll have to go slower or adapt. Anyone want to share tips for using it in K? They have learned most of their letters; writing's a pretty slow process.

 

Also does LiPS teach how to read in addition to phonemic awareness?

 

BTW I also just started Dianne Craft's Brain Integration Therapy with them both. I'm hoping maybe this will help get them over the hump.

If you go slow, you should easily be able to use Barton starting with a Kindergartner as long as there are no other underlying issues that might trip them up (DD did well, DS needed LiPS first).   Susan Barton recommends not using the system with someone younger than 5, though.  

 

I urge you to get on the Barton site and contact Susan Barton.  If you can get access to the tutor support material and perhaps the Yahoo group you will have resources to help you that could prove invaluable.  Since you aren't purchasing the program, you will probably need special permission from Susan Barton to access these resources but she is very nice and usually quite willing to spend time talking with people who have questions.  Just e-mail her.  

 

Will you have access to the tutorial DVD's as well as the Tutor Manual?  The DVDs will help.  Make certain you get the tiles, too.  Since you have younger ones, hopefully there won't be resistance to all the hand gestures, etc.  (sometimes teenagers and pre-teens think these steps are silly).  But it is really, really helpful to do all the hand gestures, etc. as scripted.  As you move into higher levels, these steps start to make more sense and will be used throughout the levels in some form or fashion.  Implementing everything correctly at Level 1 makes the other levels a lot easier to tutor for many reasons.  For one thing, the short cut communication between the tutor and the student helps tremendously with keeping lessons moving smoothly and keeps the tutor from talking so much it interferes with the student processing and using the information being taught.  

 

By the way, Level 1 will probably seem really, really basic.  But it is so important, IMHO, for many kids.  It was absolutely essential for mine and they were 6th grade (nearly 7th) and 4th grade when we started.  Level 2 is meatier but still pretty basic seeming.   Again, a very critical level for many kids.  Level 3 is quite a bit more intense and significantly longer than the first two levels and takes a lot of time and patience to implement but it was with Level 3 that things started to really gel for my kids.  Since your kids are much younger than mine, you may really want to slow down and repeat lessons if you keep with this system.  Repeating and review are really easy to do.  Everything, even repeat lessons, are scripted.

[forty-two]

Also does LiPS teach how to read in addition to phonemic awareness?

I'm prepping to teach LiPS to my 7.5yo and 5yo (making and locating supplies as well as reading the manual and taking notes, wrapping my brain around the program), and it does indeed teach reading in addition to phonemic awareness - takes you all the way through multisyllable words. But if generic you is just doing LiPS as prep for Barton, you can stop much earlier in the program (the Barton website says when - somewhere around tracking sounds in cvc syllables/words).

[Jenn in CA]

Thanks, OneStep. :) Yes, I got the tiles and the training dvds. I loooove the looks of it. It looks very easy to use.

 

Question: She recommends 2 1-hr sessions per week as a tutor. Any advice on using this in a homeschool setting? Is a shorter, daily session better?

Forty-two, thanks for the info re: LiPS. Do you think it looks straightforward for a mom to use?

[forty-two]

Forty-two, thanks for the info re: LiPS. Do you think it looks straightforward for a mom to use?

Very straightforward, but not open and go. It's well arranged, and I got a good sense of the big picture right off, but I've found I need to genuinely study the manual, take notes, put in the effort to learn and master the material - basically like a self-study college class. I haven't had to actually *study* in a while, so it took me a bit to get into the right mindset, but now that I'm putting in the time to interact with the material, I'm making good headway.

 

There's a clear flow to the program, and a fairly small (though powerful) set of tools and techniques used to teach the program. Correspondingly, there's actually just a small set of information you are trying to teach, too - the bulk of the learning comes from applying that information in several ways, with increasing complexity. So learning the program consists of mastering the basic information to be taught (straightforward) and internalizing the techniques used to teach that the students.

 

To do this there are sample dialogues for everything, plus examples of error-handling for all typical errors, so you get a *lot* of examples of how to use the foundational techniques to teach all aspects of the program. And if you got the DVDs, which I didn't (I just got the manual (used) and the mouth picture magnets (new - could not get clear enough copies from the small b&w pictures in the manual)), you'd have lots more examples, in a different modality, to assist in the internalization process. I'm not a DVD person, but I can see how they'd be helpful - added examples, lessen the need for studying the manual. But for $100-200 I'm willing to study the dialogues and take notes and otherwise pretend I'm back in school again ;), learning something that takes actual effort and attention to detail. (Plus, I'm actually pretty in love with LiPS, because the info is so freaking *awesome*, and I love how the emphasis is on teaching the student to be able to judge for themselves if something is correct, instead of just memorizing the right answer. And in general I'm a fan of using a small set of info and tools in flexible ways to tackle all aspects, instead of having separate info and tools for each separate bit.)

 

I'm a real novice at *teaching*, as well as a novice at this sort of linguistic information, though - I'm starting from scratch in so many ways, so I don't have any pegs in my head to hang this stuff on - I'm basically *creating* a bunch of pegs right now, so it takes more effort to get it to stick. That may be why some professionals are all, "LiPS is too hard for parents to do," because parents don't have all the background knowledge that gives pegs to hang the new info on. But idk, to me LiPS is pretty darn complete, and everything makes sense, even if it takes a bit of time and brainsweat to actually *master* it.

[LaughingCat]

For LIPS I think the manual by itself would be hard, but it does come with some dvds that show short snippets of actually doing it (I bought mine from Gander Publishing).  The extra training dvd's you can buy show longer, more complete versions of the same thing.  It is a whole reading program, but I think it would go very fast as written - of course you could/would just repeat certain sections until they got it but you'd have to come up with your own words etc.   That is probably also part of why Barton suggests using a tutor for LIPS.    I did the pre-Barton portion myself with the manual and extra dvds.  I think you could do it relatively easily with just the dvd's that come with it (I actually bought it in opposite order since I found the extra dvds for a good price used).

 

 

[Jenn in CA]

So I can either buy the whole shebang from Gander for $450.

 

Or I can buy the previous edition manual for $65 used on Amazon. It doesn't come w/a dvd though.

 

Laughing Cat, if I only want to do the pre-Barton part, do I need the magnets & PAS story book set?

 

Gee, even if I bought just the manual & DVD new from Gander, it's only $165. Are you guys saying I don't need all the cool magnet sets?

Forty-two, your description of the work involved was exactly what I was thinking. I can handle that. "Brain sweat," I love it!

 

I'm excited. It seems a lot more reachable now. I also would feel a lot better buying just what I need if I'm going to go into Barton.

 

 

 

 

[LaughingCat]

You do need some kind of mouth pictures and letters.   I made my own mouth pictures and letters by copying pages of the manual, laminating, and attaching magnets  (also used a better picture of the vowel half circle as a backdrop - I found it on the web at some point but haven't been able to re-find).   I just made new larger ones the same way for my little DD (who I believe is NT but did fail the LIPS test - documented in a prev thread on LIPS) by enlarging the page.   But the magnets or the card set (cheaper but not magnetic) would no doubt be much nicer - mine are definitely not impressive but did the job for an older child (too early to tell with the younger - we are more talking things through at this point more than using the pictures - taking it very easy since she is technically still a K4).  

 

 

 

 

[susanfh]

Sorry to hijack.  I'm getting ready to start using LiPS with my son as well.  He's 6.5, apraxic, ADHD, and I think dsyslexic.  I bought the whole kit and am hoping to resell it after we use it.  The program looks amazing and I am excited to start using it.

 

Did those of you who purchased the extra "professional development DVDs" find them helpful? 

 

ETA:  I'm also interested to know if you did the "vertical" or "horizontal" program.  I haven't decided which way to go.

 

And as a p.s. I did take DS to Lindamood Bell for an eval -- the only reason we went was that since he is only 6, they just wanted to do an early childhood eval, which only cost $100.  But, they suggested intensive tutoring -- 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 8-10 weeks.  All at the low price of $107/hr.  For a 6 year old who can hardly sit through 30 minutes of speech therapy at a time.  Really.  The consultant even acknowledged that trying the program myself was a good idea first.  

 

And completely OT, I'm also curious to know how you like homeschooling through a charter.  We are moving to CA this summer and I'm looking into this option.  In some ways it seems too good to be true.

[Jenn in CA]

sfhargett, that's kind of what I was thinking would happen if I took her in for the LMB eval. Thx for sharing your experience. 

 

I'll PM you about the charter.

[forty-two]

So I can either buy the whole shebang from Gander for $450.

 

Or I can buy the previous edition manual for $65 used on Amazon. It doesn't come w/a dvd though.

 

Gee, even if I bought just the manual & DVD new from Gander, it's only $165. Are you guys saying I don't need all the cool magnet sets?

 

Forty-two, your description of the work involved was exactly what I was thinking. I can handle that. "Brain sweat," I love it!.

Ack, my used third edition was $90 on Amazon!

 

I didn't buy the kit, but I'm making all the magnet sets - I went through the kit materials list and wrote out everything I needed to make - what I needed to copy, what needed laminating, and what needed magnets. (Let's see: 24 colored tiles (six colors, four of each color), 15 colored tiles (for introducing the vowel circle), mouth pictures, letter symbol tiles, syllable tiles, vowel mat, tracking mat, plus I made tiles with the sound pictures from Dekodiphukan; there were a few more things I copied from the book, but they aren't sold as part of the kit anyway.) I already had card stock and a roll of magnet tape from when I made homemade AAS tiles, so there wasn't much to buy. I've done all the printing and dh laminated them at work - just have to slice and dice and attach the magnets.

 

I did buy the mouth magnet pictures from Gander, though - they are the same size as the mouth pics in the manual, but in color. After spending a few hours trying to get clear enough copies, I gave up - most were fine, but I just could not get the tongue scraper pic clear enough - I do think it could be done, but I decided that it was worth $30 to not have to fuss with it.

 

Eta: for the pre-Barton stuff, I think you'd need the colored tiles, letter symbol tiles, and mouth pictures, but not the syllable tiles.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks, OneStep. :) Yes, I got the tiles and the training dvds. I loooove the looks of it. It looks very easy to use.

 

Question: She recommends 2 1-hr sessions per week as a tutor. Any advice on using this in a homeschool setting? Is a shorter, daily session better?  YES!!! (SEE BELOW :) )

 

Forty-two, thanks for the info re: LiPS. Do you think it looks straightforward for a mom to use?

Whether you are using LiPS (and definitely use this before Barton) or Barton, or any other material of this nature I recommend going at the pace of the child.  With my own, one hour sessions were just WAAAAY too long.  It was misery for all of us.  My mother was the one tutoring with LiPS for DS.  She kept sessions to about 30-40 minutes 2-3 times a week.  In hindsight, we didn't stick with LiPS long enough and it probably would have worked better if he had been doing it 3-4 times a week, along with some consistent review, but oh well.  I wasn't there for the sessions and didn't realize that some things weren't being covered as much as he really needed.  

 

For Barton, I try to keep sessions about 30 minutes or so, and we do it every weekday, usually first thing, before we are too tired to give it our best.  Sometimes, if I can see that DC are struggling with something I may cut the session short and let them process it a bit before tackling it again the next day.  Sometimes, we just play Barton games and do a few practice pages if I know they are really tired or have other issues going on.  Keeping them feeling positive about the program, not frustrated or demoralized, keeps us moving steadily forward.   Also, while it may not look like it, these sessions are draining at times.  The kids have to work HARD.  They wear out.  And many need a lot of time to really process what they are doing.  Don't rush and don't keep at it when they are starting to disengage mentally.  Once I shortened the sessions to 20-30 minutes, the enthusiasm really ramped up.  And DD sometimes asks to keep going now because she has gained so much confidence now with the program...but it took time to get there.

 

Also, after level 1 we got into a rhythm.  There are certain areas that are more difficult for DD but other areas that are more difficult for DS.  Therefore, I try to break up the sections of a lesson so that we tackle the more difficult area very slowly and focus on just that area for our session that day.  We don't complete a lesson in one day.  In fact, sometimes we need a week or two weeks or even three to really solidify a concept so that it is automatic.  For others on this board they may even take longer because that is what works for their child.  Go at the pace of the child.  Keep focused on mastery, not on checking off boxes (ex. ok we finished lesson 2 better move on to lesson 3 even though she seems shaky vs. ok we finished lesson 2, maybe we should go back and review a bit before moving on).  As OhE said upthread, this isn't a sprint.  You and your child are in this for the long haul.  If things are gelling and you feel moving at a faster pace with work, then do it.  If there is frustration and confusion, slow down, repeat, go back a few lessons, whatever it takes to help them get the concepts AND feel good about it.

 

Oh, I didn't do it until much later, but if your daughter has made it through LiPS and has gotten past Level 1 of Barton, but having some fluency issues, I recommend trying the fluency drills available on the Barton tutoring section of the website.  

 

Best wishes...

[1shortmomto4]

I've tried to read through all of this and man, all the suggestions are overwhelming but one question/thought continues to come to mind (I'm a mom of a severely hearing impaired child and one with APD/dyslexia/dysgraphia issues) - has your dd had a full hearing screening?  Something beyond the "raise your hand when you hear the beep" screening?  Yes, there are special audiologists that do the APD screening but perhaps start with a screening in a booth for just the basics of what sounds your dd is actually hearing before you go purchasing curriculum and more.  My ds (now 20) was always just a wee bit under the screening for any type of help - until he failed the standard hearing test in the doc's office and was referred to an audiologist and we found his hearing impairment.  He was 15.  This hearing impairment was present all along from birth but no one picked it up and they just made various excuses over the years.  I think you have to be sure that there is no hearing impairment before you begin working on the APD.  It sounds like your dd is able to see verbal skills using her visual skills but when her back is turned (going up the stairs) she can't read those and has no idea what you are saying.  Kids compensate very early one until they run out of brain power (memory storage space I like to call it) and can do no more and then you see the lack of progression.  Much of what you have described I saw with my ds over the years (I see the signs now through watching old home videos) - the value of hindsight.