Cooperatives - previous posts by SWB??

[LearningGrace]

Our family has participated in a cooperative situation for 5 years now. There have been various blessings and several challenges.  As we look toward planning our schedules for the new year, my husband and I are revisiting this topic including input from our oldest child (freshman ds).  Miss Social Butterfly (4th grade dd) has already made her wishes quite clear.  :)  We have also discussed what we are just certain (?) we read regarding Dr. Bauer's experience with cooperatives and just cannot lay a finger on it to save our lives.  We have scoured TWTM and these forums but have uncovered nothing.  Does anyone know where we can find her statements, or did we just imagine this scenario?  We would definitely like to read it again.

 

Thank you kindly ~

[G5052]

I think it may have been in an earlier version of TWTM.  I also remember Jessie Wise talking about this at a live session she used to give on "lessons learned."  So it may indeed be hard to find, but you aren't imagining it.  They didn't do this past a certain age because of quality issues and behavior problems.  

 

I always kept this in the back of my mind, and indeed we didn't continue very far into high school for those very reasons.  And I've found that having 5 days at home to do school works better than 4 days. 

[NavyMommy]

I don't recall reading it somewhere (unless it's maybe on her blog?) but I do know her stance is that co-ops are not necessary to a good home education and could even possibly be harmful. The closest I've heard on her recordings is the talk by Jessie Wise "If I Could Do It All Over Again".  SWB had a similar talk I heard her give to a homeschool group but it's not on recording, it touches on the same co-op event though. 

[Magnolia Rain]

SWB just addressed this topic at the VA conference last weekend in her talk on Homeschooling for the Second Time.

She shared her experience in a co-op and the experience she had participating in a co-op with her children. It was clear she found them totally unnecessary and segued that joining out of 'fear or worry' for what your kids might be missing is a mistake. (Really, ANY decisions made out if fear or worry often turned out to be big mistakes - in her case, co-ops).

The take home message for me on the topic was, "do not put more time and energy into something then your kids will get out of it."

I thought her advice was fantastic, but I'm sure it could have ruffled the feathers of staunch co-op supporters.

[tabinfl]

The co-ops just in my area are so diverse that I can't imagine any blanket advice that would apply to all of them.

I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have a choice of anything from ultra-conservative Christian to new-age spirituality and rigorous academics to unschooly art explorations, and I'm sure there are people who have had good and bad experiences with all of the above.

We've had some experiences at co-ops that were pretty negative, but the one we're currently attending (and the community of friends that we've made through it) has enriched my kids lives, and mine, tremendously. It's not perfect by any means, but co-op day is a highlight of our week.

[8filltheheart]

The co-ops just in my area are so diverse that I can't imagine any blanket advice that would apply to all of them.

I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have a choice of anything from ultra-conservative Christian to new-age spirituality and rigorous academics to unschooly art explorations, and I'm sure there are people who have had good and bad experiences with all of the above.

We've had some experiences at co-ops that were pretty negative, but the one we're currently attending (and the community of friends that we've made through it) has enriched my kids lives, and mine, tremendously. It's not perfect by any means, but co-op day is a highlight of our week.

Old dog learning new tricks... b/g twins J & K (6) and little sis S (5)

I'm not posting this to be offensive, but your oldest child is also 6 yrs old. It is a much different scenario when you are discussing academics for primary grade children vs high school students.

Finding groups of people with equivalent academic ideals for older kids is a rarity especially if you have kids that aiming beyond a general high school diploma.

[G5052]

The take home message for me on the topic was, "do not put more time and energy into something than your kids will get out of it."
 

 

As the parent of high schoolers, this is so very true.  If you goal is competitive schools and scholarships, and everyone else in the co-op/paid classes are thinking differently, you have a problem.  They worked far better for us in K-6 than later on when my academic goals became the exception.

 

At one point I was approached to teach more with a group that wasn't really benefiting my own teens, and I turned it down. We were leaning toward moving on with at least one of them, and it just didn't make sense to put more into it when the benefit as a whole would have been less than the time involved for me. In retrospect, I should have pulled my oldest out a year earlier than we did, and put the younger ahead by a level. That would probably wouldn't have been allowed though, so we made it work.

[73349]

My copy of TWTM (3rd ed.) mentions co-ops briefly (~1/2 page), casually and neutrally, but recommends with more warmth and detail finding tutors or switching with another parent for some subjects (~pgs. 687-691).

 

It's going to come down to what's available in your area for your child's level that you couldn't do better at home.

[G5052]

 

It's going to come down to what's available in your area for your child's level that you couldn't do better at home.

 

Or what you can swing with online classes.  I always thought I'd teach everything to the very end, but outsourcing to online teachers for a few subjects has been a huge blessing. 

[texasmama]

It's going to come down to what's available in your area for your child's level that you couldn't do better at home.

Yep. Thus far that has included Latin and middle school sciences with labs for us.  Our co op is small and academically-oriented.  I teach literature analysis because it is fun and helps to offset the cost of the other classes.  I'll do it as long as it works for us and then do something else.  It's not a religion - just a choice that works for now.

[tabinfl]

I'm not posting this to be offensive, but your oldest child is also 6 yrs old. It is a much different scenario when you are discussing academics for primary grade children vs high school students.
Finding groups of people with equivalent academic ideals for older kids is a rarity especially if you have kids that aiming beyond a general high school diploma.

We're not talking about their entire academic load being done at a co-op, right? I can evaluate what's available at higher levels even if my kids aren't there yet, and it's part of why I decided against one co-op -- they offered a fairly consistent set of core classes from year to year, and if we hung around, I didn't like what would be available for my kids several years down the road. I do have a number of friends who are pretty close to me in academic goals (aiming for higher education), some at one co-op or another, some not.

Here's the key for me too:

  

It's going to come down to what's available in your area for your child's level that you couldn't do better at home.

Young or old, core academics or arts, this is going to be a different set of things for each family. There's a a wide variety of co-op organizations, so any generalizations are unlikely to apply across the board.

[LearningGrace]

Thank you very much for the input!  Lord willing, we'll get to hear Dr. Bauer in a few weeks at the GHC Cincinnati site.  Perhaps she will address this topic at that venue as well.

 

Another question:  Have you and your children found lasting friendships through this avenue?  Have you been able to find other families pursuing a similar classical education?

 

Our original goal was to connect with other hs-ing families with the hopes of developing some strong friendships while at the same time have some academics which were meaningful.  We still definitely need the former, but are doubtful as to the latter.  Other than a CC group (which are too far), we know of no other classical hs-ing families in our area.  Mom, especially, is wondering what to do about the whole thing.

[staceyobu]

We have made good friends and had a great time with our coop. We love it. If we lived somewhere without such a great option, I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty about not attending one. There are other avenues to make friends.

[Walking-Iris]

I think one can take or leave a co-op. Here a co-op only meets twice a month and the activities are not very academic. Some art or science and some pe sports type games. 

 

I think they could be good for meeting people, but there are other ways to do that. It would have to be a really really awesome co-op for me to attend weekly, or more than one day a week. 

 

I don't really try to meet people with certain labels. I don't care if a local homeschooling family is classical or anything else. Or if we're even friends with other homeschoolers. We just become friends with who we tend to like---regardless of how they educate their children. 

[sassenach]

SWB just addressed this topic at the VA conference last weekend in her talk on Homeschooling for the Second Time.

She shared her experience in a co-op and the experience she had participating in a co-op with her children. It was clear she found them totally unnecessary and segued that joining out of 'fear or worry' for what your kids might be missing is a mistake. (Really, ANY decisions made out if fear or worry often turned out to be big mistakes - in her case, co-ops).

The take home message for me on the topic was, "do not put more time and energy into something then your kids will get out of it."

I thought her advice was fantastic, but I'm sure it could have ruffled the feathers of staunch co-op supporters.

This was what I got, too.  I imagine any co-op that a homeschool guru, such as SWB, is going to have a hard time finding a co-op that wouldn't involve people hoping have her do a lot for them.

 

What I really agreed with was that it's important to not make fear based decisions (this is great advice for life in general), and that it's important to evaluate the net gain when choosing where to put your time and energy.

 

Another question:  Have you and your children found lasting friendships through this avenue?  Have you been able to find other families pursuing a similar classical education?

 

Our original goal was to connect with other hs-ing families with the hopes of developing some strong friendships while at the same time have some academics which were meaningful.  We still definitely need the former, but are doubtful as to the latter.  Other than a CC group (which are too far), we know of no other classical hs-ing families in our area.  Mom, especially, is wondering what to do about the whole thing.

 

 

I think you're in the best position to sort this all out.  Each co-op and homeschool community is so unique, none of our answers will apply to your situation.  Since you've done the co-op for several years already, I think you know your answer.  It sounds like taking a year off might be a good way to evaluate the situation.  

 

I will say that the older my kids get, the more important it becomes for them to have a social outlet, and to learn from people other than myself.  That's going to look different in every family.  For some the social gathering happens in church, sports, clubs, or somewhere else.  It doesn't have to be in a co-op setting.  Some kids never need to learn from anyone but their parents.  Many need some level of outsourcing.  Sometimes that happens in a co-op setting, sometimes not.  

 

I do believe that co-ops can be valuable.  I've run one for many years and it has undoubtably added to our homeschool lives.  That said, there is life outside of co-ops, and, having seen this in action, it generally doesn't end well when one joins a co-op out of fear.  

 

Be clear on the purpose and the cost.  It sounds like you are.  Trust yourself!

[FairProspects]

I guess I use co-ops differently than most. I use co-op to teach units or experiences that I would like my kids to have that are also best done in a group. There are some aspects of discussion, building, designing, science, etc. that I feel are most effective taught in a small group. I use co-op to put together those experiences for my kids (usually with me teaching the class but sometimes with others too). Sure, it could be done on my own, but it would take a lot more work to get everyone to commit because I can't offer the intangible social benefits of co-op like lunches, PE, etc. It works for us for now and my kids are definitely getting much more out of it than I am putting in. If that changes, we would change directions.