ebunny Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Very sad situation..yet I hope it has a happy ending sometime in the future. The 20s are the time to understand and accept one's place in the world. Especially for cognitively advanced children who search for meaning and purpose in their lives, this can be a very stressful phase. Add academic pressure to the mix, and the angst is more acute. (BTDT)... Another thing is that parents often underestimate the power and influence they have over their children. And once the child moves away, physically away, and when she/he gains perspective that can only come from reflection, things can get very ugly very fast. I hope the mother gives her daughter the mental and physical space that the latter probably needs the most.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I get that the daughter is feeling like she missed out on being a 'normal' kid, but the truth is that may never have been an option. Many times, with these out there kids, parents aren't choosing between multiple good options, they are choosing the least bad option they can. When your choices are keeping the child with age mates and the boredom, depression, and anxiety that come from unmet academic needs or advancing the child and getting social problems, depression, and anxiety that come from unmet social needs the options aren't very clear. Add to that siblings that also have needs, parents that have needs, the reality of employment locations, money, time, and everything else, it is a miracle that anyone survives. Do I sometimes sacrifice the needs of my oldest because someone else needs the time, money, or energy that would have gone to her? Absolutely. Do I regret it? Not anymore. I used to and I felt utterly miserable for failing as a parent because I could not meet her needs. And they were needs not wants but absolute things she needed. But that still did not make more hours in the day or more money in the checkbook or fewer little brothers in the house. It just made me miserable. So I stopped trying to do it all. I do what I can and then I am done. She is not having the best childhood possible. She is simply having the one is having, the rest is up to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I get that the daughter is feeling like she missed out on being a 'normal' kid, but the truth is that may never have been an option. Many times, with these out there kids, parents aren't choosing between multiple good options, they are choosing the least bad option they can. When your choices are keeping the child with age mates and the boredom, depression, and anxiety that come from unmet academic needs or advancing the child and getting social problems, depression, and anxiety that come from unmet social needs the options aren't very clear. Add to that siblings that also have needs, parents that have needs, the reality of employment locations, money, time, and everything else, it is a miracle that anyone survives. Do I sometimes sacrifice the needs of my oldest because someone else needs the time, money, or energy that would have gone to her? Absolutely. Do I regret it? Not anymore. I used to and I felt utterly miserable for failing as a parent because I could not meet her needs. And they were needs not wants but absolute things she needed. But that still did not make more hours in the day or more money in the checkbook or fewer little brothers in the house. It just made me miserable. So I stopped trying to do it all. I do what I can and then I am done. She is not having the best childhood possible. She is simply having the one is having, the rest is up to her. I can only imagine the constant struggle you go through, as a mom to 3 EG/PG children...Hats Off to you for being reflective and thoughtful at trying to meet their needs. Corollary being that as long as your children are aware of the dilemma you face as a mom, your relationship with them would not be jeopardized. But, I think the mother in the OP pushed her daughter erroneously thinking she (daughter) is capable of far more than she actually was. That might be the cause for the daughter feeling 'cheated' of her childhood. IMO, a totally different situation than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I know what it's like to lose a childhood. With help, I learned how to forgive. It was the only way past it. This young woman will eventually have to forgive her mother, look forward, and create a life for herself. She still has time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This may be off track of the theme of the conversation but it is not particularly uncommon to be rejected from med school admissions on the first year trying. I can think of three typical age graduates I know in this situation just in the last couple of years. Yes, for students who have always done well in life, that can be a blow but life doesn't always proceed in a straight line with no bumps in the road. Some students who don't get in the first time take more prep and retake the MCAT, beef up their science, try a master's program first, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemsMom Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This thread is making me feel better about a decision I made a couple of weeks ago. My 6th grader is very good at her studies and playing the violin. It seems that everyone where I live is impressed with her and I am often told that my daughter is gifted and I am so lucky because all the other children have to work so hard for what comes easy for my child (my daughter does work hard, people only see her at recitals so they do not see the work that she does). My decision was to buy her a puppy. DD loves dogs and she has been working with our dog at agility but he is not the right dog because of size and breed. I really am not in the market for a puppy but now I am thinking this is the best thing for DD. She can still be brilliant at violin and be so very smart (according to the people we run into) but she will have another activity that she can focus on that is just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I get that the daughter is feeling like she missed out on being a 'normal' kid, but the truth is that may never have been an option. Many times, with these out there kids, parents aren't choosing between multiple good options, they are choosing the least bad option they can. So true. My dds were skipped two years in primary school, the first time by mutual agreement with the school and the second time when the school decided in the last months of what should have been the penultimate year that the school could not meet their needs. So a week after they turned ten, they started at the secondary school (grades 7 to 12). It wasn't what I wanted for them. I wanted them to be with kids their own age, enjoy school and be challenged academically. One of those things had to go (homeschooling was not legal in our situation where we lived). You do the best you can in a situation where "best", as Jenne says, is unfortunately often equivalent to "least bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have read most of the posts on this thread. It is something I think about a lot because of my own daughter. I don't see the girl as a spoiled. Maybe she would not have been happy with being held back either but she can't know that right now. She only knows the choices she made or that were made for her. The "what ifs" are endless possibilities and one can dream about the happiness that might have resulted. I have read a number of stories about gifted kids who were pushed with both good and not so great outcomes and I have read stories of gifted kids who were not helped to achieve at all with varying results. Choice-making is a gamble either way, sometimes there is no clear right and wrong. I think loving parents do the best they can with what they have. I know as a parent, it is easy to see all the potential these kids have and want them to be everything they can possibly be…to reach their potential. I was there when my dd was young and I hear the same things in the posts of other parents of very young children. "How do I help my child reach their potential in (insert anything)?" There were so many possibilities open to her and I felt a huge responsibility to help her know all those possibilities. She was my youngest, so I had learned a lot by raising her brothers and reading different viewpoints on education and giftedness. I try to give her input into decisions on what she studies and how she spends her time. I purposefully work to give her free time and time with friends (trying to find others who have similar interests). I have to really listen to her, not always simply what she says, but her reactions and body language to know who she is and what she wants. We spend a lot of time together snuggling, talking, reading, and doing fun activities. I also feel the need to prepare her for the time when she will "blend in" more with others doing the same thing because she won't be the youngest…childhood only last so long. I don't always get it right (that should be in the confessions thread, right?) and only time will tell whether I made good choices for this particular child...or my boys either for that matter. Every child, parent, and family situation is so different. Maybe the mom pushed or didn't know how to "listen" to her daughter. Maybe she wanted some sort of validation of herself through her daughter's achievements. Maybe she only tended to the academic needs of her daughter and didn't think about other areas of her life. Maybe her daughter pushed herself and the mom was doing the best she could thinking she had to keep up. Maybe being "the best" or "the youngest doing (blank)" isn't a good goal for which to strive. Not knowing the whole situation, it is difficult to know exactly what to learn from it without placing some judgement on mom or daughter when the causes of the situation could be numerous. Maybe taking some time to "find herself" is not a bad thing. If she decides to then go to medical school, maybe the experience will make her a better doctor because she would have made the decision herself rather than doing what was expected of her. She may decide to pursue another option entirely and find happiness/fulfillment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacharsis Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In weightlifting, there is a common problem where men starting out will focus on their chest because they have this feeling that big chests are what they need to be seen as muscular. In the process, they entirely ignore their backs, while their chest grows and grows. Eventually, this imbalance leads to injury. Healthy growth would require balance between the chest and back. It's the same thing with intellectual development and emotional development. Confronted with a gifted child, the temptation is to take them as far as possible intellectually. However, that intellectual growth must be matched with emotional growth. I like to believe that a classical curriculum has the potential to teach both, if done with care. (Maybe I'm wrong on this. :) ) Anger against parents for their failings is a natural first step towards adulthood. The hope is that they will make the second step, the third step, etc. With any luck, the net result will be thankfulness for your efforts when they are older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 That's one thing that worries me. How do you avoid your child getting attention for being the youngest and at least partially, linking their self-worth towards being the youngest if there aren't any other kids their age or close to it in their area with similar skill levels/drives? Part of NOT accelerating has required finding mentors and supports for DD-and usually that means she's a child spending time with adults or teenagers, often the only child present unless someone has their child with them for child care reasons. I know one reason DD loves math competitions and talent search test days is that she doesn't feel alone. It doesn't help any that our homeschool circle seems to be a mixed bag of relaxed schoolers and parents who aren't relaxed, but who have children with learning disabilities that they are working hard at remediating. DD gets a lot of attention, which she often doesn't like, for being the "tiny genius" (I've heard a child refer to DD in exactly those words, and if DD were a cobra, her hood would have been flared). Finding cognitive peers, I think, helps, and so does focusing on cheering on her friends for what they're good at/work hard at, but it's definitely a balance and a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Maybe it is because I just returned from my 41 year old friends funeral, but sounds like she has a first world problem on her hands. Bitterness is her real enemy. I agree. You're either mad at your parents (usually the mom, why is that?) for pushing too much, or for not challenging you enough. I feel like one can't win. I joke that in only one of those scenarios can one at least afford to pay the therapy bills. For the record, I don't really push that much, mainly because I am tired. Tired from organising playdates and trips and fun stuff like it's my job. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I'm confused why some people say her mother thought she could do something that she couldn't. Is she not her twenties with a college degree? The only thing the mom was wrong about thinking he could do was go directly into medical school before a certain age. Does she not have a degree in her hand? Then her mother was not wrong to think that she could. If there's problems in their relationship it will only stay that way if there's personality issues. She could still be mad at her mom for this when she's 45, or she could be thankful for these decisions by then. I think it depends on if her mom is a likable person than it does over these choices they already made. When I said privledged, I didn't mean spoiled or that her problems were vapid. I meant young, educated, no responsibilities, her whole life ahead of her. That's a good position to be in. It's hard to know how far into the future these choices will affect her, good and bad. Having a degree is good. Not being happy with your life is bad. She can do what she wants with her life now, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have posted about this young lady before, but right now I am just so sad for her that I thought I would share her story bc it is one I worry about with my own kids......her cautionary tale to my family. I know that this is her story and that other people have had kids follow similar paths and thrive (which by all accts her mom would have said about her dd until recently) but since her story was shared with me yesterday, I can't get it out of my mind. And since the success stories seem far more rememberable, this is her Jiminy Cricket tale. This young lady was graduated early from high school when she was 15. She earned a full-ride scholarship to a regional instate school that was about 45-60 mins from home. She moved on campus right away, became extremely active in on-campus activities, volunteered at the local hospital, etc. Her dream was to become a dr. She maintained a 4.0 GPA and had professors pulling strings behind the scenes when she applied to medical school bc they all loved her. She really wanted to attend a top medical school. I am not sure what happened at couple (she didn't share with me and if I was told last yr, I have now forgotten), but one very top medical school did not want to admit her directly into their med school. They suggested that she complete one of their public health graduate programs and they would re-evaluate. A few thoughts: -Without knowing the individual involved, or the undergraduate institution or medical schools a lot of this reads like someone who was on the borderline for acceptance. I know that seems odd given a 4.0 gpa but some medical schools do interpret gpas through their own fudge factor based on their view on the institution's rigor combined with the institution's grading rigor. I also know that the medical school I attended was a bit biased towards harder coursework over a slightly higher gpa. So someone who had a 3.7 with a biochemistry degree might be preferable to a student with a 4.0 who majored in sociology and took the lower sections of organic chemistry, non calculus based physics, etc. Your later mention of the watered down algebra course leads me to wonder if some of this may have happened at the university level as well especially if she was determined to have perfect 4.0. - It would be interesting to know what she scored on the MCAT. Although many schools seem to use some sort of a composite that merges undergraduate gpa, science gpa, MCAT, etc there is often a minimum in each category so it is possible that her MCAT score may have been a disqualifying factor. -It is also possible that she just came across very young and immature or raised some coping/interaction red flags during the interview process and they worried if she might not be ready for clinical rotations when they came up. Knowing that she was a little young that might warrant a let's re-evaluate in a year or two rather than you know maybe you're just not really cut out for this. This might be even more likely if there were professors pulling strings behind the scenes because it might allow everyone to save face. -Was she offered admission to the medical school for the 2014-2015 year? Or did they suggest that she reapply for 2015-2016? If that was the case, I could see her getting frustrated and reading the writing on the wall that 2015-2016 wouldn't be very likely either. -I suppose it is also possible that she truly found her passion in epidemiology and realized that she wasn't meant to actually be involved in bedside practice. The rest of your posts do seem to sway against that as I don't get the impression she is happy and fulfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 One is being prepared for rejection vs. being always told that the rules do not apply to you bc you are unique. The rules don't apply to you is a very big one. That's a dangerous message for kids to get at any age. It is tricky because obviously in the homeschooling world we do to some extent get to break the rules. We don't have to beg for permission to give our kids the custom education they deserve and that's a positive thing. But it is a dangerous thing to extend that into the idea that they are somehow separate from all constraints or expectations that affect other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 8fill, I am very glad you posted this. It gave me a lot to think about. I need these kinds of stories to help me evaluate the concept of balance in my son's life. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omd21 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Another person's situation may seem priviledged on the surface, but who are we to judge what this girl is or isn't entitled to struggle with? Wealthy people, educated people, those who are perceived as fortunate don't often have the rose colored life everyone else thinks they have. Just like anyone else, they have the right to grieve for whatever they feel they lost or traded for their "good fortune". The magnitude of our own problems doesn't make others' less relevant. 8, thank you so much for sharing this story. This is something that I constantly think about with my own dd. Having limited experience, I look to other families I know to get a sense of balance in my own life, reflect on my priorities, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I would like my sons to skip a few years early on (not going to happen) but that is because I would like to buy them some extra time in their teens to do internships and study a few subjects not directly related to their chosen field. We don't have the same system as you so without buying some extra time they will likely never to a second language (ancient or modern), or an elective art, music or history course. Once they leave high school they will probably not be able to afford non-proscribed courses at university (my course had no opportunities for electives over the whole 4 years). That seems sad. A couple of spare years from 16 to 18 to explore options do overseas study etc sounds great. Going to college early and ending up doing an extra course to fill time seems a bad idea. I didn't get pushed. By 15 I couldn't stand it any more, left school (quite normal) and spent my teenage years working nights and weekends in kitchens. Is that better or worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I didn't get pushed. By 15 I couldn't stand it any more, left school (quite normal) and spent my teenage years working nights and weekends in kitchens. Is that better or worse? This is how I feel too. Even though I was 2 years "young" as a senior in high school, I couldn't get done with that place soon enough. I hated the social scene, hated being treated like less than a human being, hated spinning my wheels. College was a breath of fresh air in comparison. Had my parents prevented me from graduating early, I would have resented that for sure. I was very tempted to drop out as it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 There are issues so common there's names for them. There's a saying, "never a child, always a child." For when when you had too much responsibility and how that tends to turn out stunting you. There's imposter syndrome for cognitive dissonance where you kept going and going and never found anything meaningful, so you know you missed something big and your accomplishments are not real. There's internal locus of control, which if you google "how to recover your internal locus of control" you'll find two of the top returns are addiction recovery and alchoholic recovery. And there's stories of suicides from kids being pushed by their parents. She has to find a way to deal with this and make peace with her life. She does have a. privledged position. She is young, educated, has security, has no responsibilities, has her whole life ahead of her, the whole world is her oyster. She needs to find more precise words than regret to describe what's bringing her down. She didn't really make bad choices. Regret comes from making bad choices. There are other things that might be wrong besides the ones I listed, but she needs to find a more concrete way of defining what's bringing her down so she can deal with it. Regret means mourning the loss of her childhood. Looking inside to figure out what she feels like she's missing now from missing that developmental stage gives her something she can work on to improve her life going forward. Is it imposter syndrome? Challenge yourself now. Is it "never a child, always a child"? Give yourself responsibilities, like that humanitarian mission trip. Yes, she has already volunteered, but humanitarian to third world is just bigger somehow, and she needs to break through some illusions right now. Existential depression, she's on a spiritual path none of us can give her exact answers to. Start reading books she finds meaningfull and try to talk to a lot of random people about things you find deep and meaningful. You don't know who might have a little wisdom to help you find your path, and you'll find that many people have more deeper wisdom than they usually talk about and people like it when you connect with them on that level. I know you changed the title to nm, but I kept posting because I already started telling my thoughts on the situation and chose to keep going. This is the conversation I would have, given the story in the op; how to heal, be in the moment, write your own life story. In the moment the girl is in a good position to be in. She has some big things to deal with, but she has a lot of internal resources to deal with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I deleted the posts b/c it is not my child and felt I had stepped over the bounds of what I felt was appropriate to share about another person. But suffice it to say that you only latched on to a single part of the issue.....that fact that she has a master degree at a young age. She also has emotional scars from very bad choices made at a young age b/c she was living on her own without any parental supervision. She is burned out on life b/c she took on an adult level workload before she was ready to. First world problem? Maybe. But it is a created problem, not one of necessity. Individuals are far more than their education. And I am incredibly thankful that my teenagers can come into my bedroom at 11 pm and sit on the end of my bed spilling their guts and seeking counsel b/c they aren't sure how to deal with the situations they have found themselves in. That emotional support is actually more important to me than intellectual pursuits. They can always pursue education later on. But, the mistakes that kids make when they are older can be completely life-altering and are not simply fights on a playground. Right, which is why I suggested separating the issue of accelerated education from the issue of living on campus at a young age. The two do not have to happen together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Right, which is why I suggested separating the issue of accelerated education from the issue of living on campus at a young age. The two do not have to happen together. there is little to distinguish between dual enrolling and early graduation except some people don't have the luxury of living near a college campus where their kids can take classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Fwiw (not much) I listed three separate things that she has going for her while she works through her problems- her young age, her lack of responsibilities, and her education. That's not the same thing as saying getting a degree at her young age was the advantage. I was trying to say she feels her childhood was stolen from her, but her whole life was not stolen from her, and some of the steps that people use to take back their life. I also asked about how her mother can be more of a mother now. I was speaking from my own bias, from the people I know who missed out on some part of their life, and from looking at people who have relationships with their parents, and those who don't. I obviously missed the point of the discussion just clarify between what I thought I was saying from what I was quoted as saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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