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On the hot thread about CC I suggested, "Why not start your own study center?" and someone responded, "But how??!" So I thought well.....since I'm on Spring break, and I've had some experience doing that, I'd just start a thread where those of us who've had experience in starting our own homeschooling centers could share some pointers! There is so much to be said on this (and this is just a discussion board!) so...Here are a few suggestions...

 

1) Clear and simple focus

When starting a group you want to have a clear and simple focus (to keep the endeavor from overwhelming you). Think of the main need that you have--the main thing that you're searching for. Remind yourself that the most effective growth is organic, so be patient! Don't expect a group to meet all your hopes and desires in its first year! But be content if it meets at least one. If it does this, you will have fellowship and connection with potential friends--and that will make it worth it!

 

2) Find a few other like-minded homeschoolers.

This is the most challenging part!* Rather than announcing: "Starting a homeschool group for classically minded!" I would design a meeting that would attract a few like-minded homeschoolers. Because the term "classical" is so terribly ambiguous these days, there is no telling what people will be expecting if they respond to this call!

 

3) Form a Study center--not a Co-op! A core of leaders (a board) keeps the endeavor on track. And when organizing a class or workshop for students, the teacher/tutor/mentor should receive an appropriate fee for their services. In a co-op burnout is rampant because there are inevitably going to be those who can serve a lot more than others. 

 

*What I did before starting Collegium was this: I hosted a meeting for homeschooling parents who were interested in reading the Iliad, knowing that only those who were dedicated to studying with their children would be interested in this. I had around 10 people show up to have a monthly discussion on Homer and The Iliad. At the time I thought, "Wow! wouldn't it be great if this 'book club' lasted for 6 months?" It has now gone on for many years. But if I had announced "I'm looking for parents who want to form a classical homeschool study center" what sort of parents would've come together? Those who were looking for a quick fix for their kids... something that would "meet their needs" now! This is a recipe for a tug of war---I need this class--no, my student needs this class, etc. 

 

 

Are there any others out there with advice to someone who would love to start their own little group?  

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This is an interesting proposal. I'm at a pt where I need to find serious students as friends for my 15 yr old dd. I need IRL people to talk to that can relate to what I am talking about. We moved and I miss terribly my mentor and friend.

 

The problem I see is that I don't know if anyone would respond to a request to read the Iliad!!

 

I'll have to mull over this for a while.

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See! That's exactly what I thought, too....
 

The problem I see is that I don't know if anyone would respond to a request to read the Iliad!!

 
I thought to myself: I'm dreaming to think that there are any other people out there so crazy to open up Homer and read. But who knows? What have I got to loose? Ten adults showed up and almost all stayed together for years studying through the great books list>  
:)
Anyway, reading the Iliad is just an example. It could be to read and discuss something like this: 
Beauty in the Word: Rethinking the Foundations of Education by Stratford Caldecott
or 
start reading the great books with the Odyssey which is a little more popular than The Iliad.

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This is an interesting proposal. I'm at a pt where I need to find serious students as friends for my 15 yr old dd. I need IRL people to talk to that can relate to what I am talking about. We moved and I miss terribly my mentor and friend.

 

The problem I see is that I don't know if anyone would respond to a request to read the Iliad!!

 

We are also in the situation that finding like minded people is the big obstacle. I have never met any homeschooler IRL who had similar educational goals than we do and who would have been interested in, and capable to, engage in an academic exchange at the level my kids needed.

I have given up. It will happen when they can attend university classes, but probably not before.

 

My university runs a Great Books reading club that is open to the community. They read one book per month and meet for a discussion that is introduced and lead by a professor. Guess who attends? The English and humanities professors - and my DD. Occasionally one or two college students. Very rarely a community person. Never any homeschoolers.

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Well, my mythology club (elementary age kids, mostly) did a read-aloud version of the Iliad last year. I credit that with dramatically changing the group, because after that, the kids who mostly wanted a playdate didn't come back :). At this point, we have almost exactly the same group this Spring we had last Spring, except for a couple of new additions (including one who is in PS, but who's parents are willing to pull her from school to give her a like-minded peer group-the school has pretty much admitted they don't have anything to teach this child, but the parents need child care-both parents are university faculty, and the mom doesn't have classes that cover the club meeting time, so she can usually get the time free to pick her DD up from school and bring her to the meetings), and it's a good fit. For the most part, the kids are passionate and love the subject, are intensely creative, and are motivated to put in the time on their monthly presentations and projects. One of the girls just had an Odyssey-themed birthday party. I think only the Mythology club kids "got it".

 

What I have happen every year, with both mythology and Latin, is that there's a lot of interest, but by mid-year the group is down to a handful of like-minded people who actually have their kids prepare for the exams and follow through at home. It ends up being a pretty congenial group of both kids and adults.The first couple of meetings, I always wonder why I do it, because usually there are a decent number of completely unprepared or reluctant kids, parents who are frustrated at having to stay on site, and so on. By November,  usually the weeding has taken place and it's really starting to gel. By January, it's a highlight of our year.

 

 

I plan to raise the cost next year and bundle in the test fees for the NME, ELE, or NLE (as well as the ACL Classics Club and NJCL membership fees per child, which is what I charged this year) and a little for a final awards luncheon-the parents who have been avidly involved have actually encouraged this so that hopefully we'll get just the dedicated people who want their kids to take the test and will follow through with the assignments instead of having a couple of months of kids where half are excited about learning and sharing with each other and parents who are learning with them, and the other half want to go play with DD's lego collection and whine about everything, while their moms chat and disrupt the class.

 

 

 

 

 

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I am really interested in this thread, though I am still not entirely sure how a study center is different than a co-op.  

My other question is how did you find the people interested in reading the Iliad.  Who (and how many) did you propose it to?  Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops.  Our kids are pretty young still, so I think we are pretty happy with a play group.  But as they get older, we may want/need groups for our academics.  

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I am really interested in this thread, though I am still not entirely sure how a study center is different than a co-op.

 

My other question is how did you find the people interested in reading the Iliad. Who (and how many) did you propose it to? Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops. Our kids are pretty young still, so I think we are pretty happy with a play group. But as they get older, we may want/need groups for our academics.

What I am picturing is maybe an adult book study and a teen social or maybe a teen book group that the teens are completely responsible for bc I am definitely not doing anything school-related. ;)

 

I have been pondering it today and I think I might advertise a book study on something like Poetic Knowledge or Climbing Parnassus and see if anyone responds. If anyone does, there is at least a slight chance we might have some intersecting common interests.

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Thank you for posting this. A friend and I were talking about how we could start something like this. There is a community center in a neighboring county that offers a nice model idea. But we want space for schoolers without it being a coop. People can use it for their classes and groups without getting bogged down in managing programming.

 

Finding space is such a challenge for small group meetings. Being in with local church communities seems to be the only magic ticket.

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Thank you for posting this. A friend and I were talking about how we could start something like this. There is a community center in a neighboring county that offers a nice model idea. But we want space for schoolers without it being a coop. People can use it for their classes and groups without getting bogged down in managing programming.

 

Finding space is such a challenge for small group meetings. Being in with local church communities seems to be the only magic ticket.

 

You're right! Classroom space is one of the biggest challenges! This is one reason we formed a non-profit; because so many places (both churches and libraries) said they weren't allowed to lend or rent space to any group unless it was a non-profit. 

 

If the group is just meeting to have fellowship over discussing a book, whether teens or adults, you can find a meeting room in a restaurant. Many of them have nice meeting rooms that can be used simply for the price of a meal. Homes would work, too. But when it comes to organizing several classes, then you need a church. But there are plenty of them around! 

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Thank you for posting this. A friend and I were talking about how we could start something like this. There is a community center in a neighboring county that offers a nice model idea. But we want space for schoolers without it being a coop. People can use it for their classes and groups without getting bogged down in managing programming.

 

Finding space is such a challenge for small group meetings. Being in with local church communities seems to be the only magic ticket.

 

You're right! Classroom space is one of the biggest challenges! This is one reason we formed a non-profit; because so many places (both churches and libraries) said they weren't allowed to lend or rent space to any group unless it was a non-profit. 

 

If the group is just meeting to have fellowship over discussing a book, whether teens or adults, you can find a meeting room in a restaurant. Many of them have nice meeting rooms that can be used simply for the price of a meal. Homes would work, too. But when it comes to organizing several classes, then you need a church. But there are plenty of them around! 

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I am really interested in this thread, though I am still not entirely sure how a study center is different than a co-op.  

 

My other question is how did you find the people interested in reading the Iliad.  Who (and how many) did you propose it to?  Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops.  Our kids are pretty young still, so I think we are pretty happy with a play group.  But as they get older, we may want/need groups for our academics.  

 

A co-op is a group that is run by volunteers, very little money changes hands. A study center is more organized, with a few people running it (whether as a profit venture or as a non-profit). 

 

When I started the book discussion group:

I  met a couple and two moms at a big church that we went to who were interested in the book Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning and asked them if they'd like to meet at our house with a few others who might like to study the great books. I had done a workshop on classical homeschooling at a local book fair and met a couple of people there. So I just issued the invitation to various home schoolers like that. I think there were about 8 people that first night.

 

We all felt that we should study the classics if we wanted our children to grow up understanding and reading them.

 

For me, the forming of the study center became an outgrowth of the relationships we had as friends. 

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A co-op is a group that is run by volunteers, very little money changes hands. A study center is more organized, with a few people running it (whether as a profit venture or as a non-profit). 

 

 

I guess I am still having trouble wrapping my brain around it.  Co-op = volunteers, Study Center = employees?  In what way is a study center more organized?  

 

And if you only have a few people doing a book study, how is there more money changing hands?

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I guess I am still having trouble wrapping my brain around it.  Co-op = volunteers, Study Center = employees?  In what way is a study center more organized?  

 

And if you only have a few people doing a book study, how is there more money changing hands?

 

I'm so sorry. In trying to keep my posts short, I'm leaving too much out! :)

 

The study center we developed came later out of the book discussion group we started.

 

I should have defined my terms! I have always used the term 'study center' to mean a place where the teachers are paid by the parents-- in contrast to the volunteer 'co-op' -- but actually a 'study center' could be either, couldn't it! I should have been clearer.

 

When we decided to form some classes for our older children, we all agreed that we wanted to pay those who would teach these classes, rather than expect everyone to share the work. We wanted the flexibility and control of hiring those who knew something about the subject.

 

Co-ops are usually groups of parents volunteering to teach various things, and sometimes it leads to a lot of burnout, because it seems that there are always a few who do most of the work, while other parents get by with very little. Of course, with the right group of people and wise leadership, a co-op can work great!

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  I have always used the term 'study center' to mean a place where the teachers are paid by the parents-- in contrast to the volunteer 'co-op' .

 

When we decided to form some classes for our older children, we all agreed that we wanted to pay those who would teach these classes, rather than expect everyone to share the work. We wanted the flexibility and control of hiring those who knew something about the subject.

 

Curious: how much critical mass i.e. people does it require to make it feasible to hire an actual expert and pay them according to their expertise?

Aside from limited interest in the IRL homeschoolers I know, I am also surrounded by  homeschooling families for whom a $5 entrance fee creates a financial hardship and has to be carefully budgeted. I can't imagine them pooling money to hire a competent teacher for anything.

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.... In what way is a study center more organized?  

 

If you have a study center run by a small group of people (a board) rather than everyone having an equal say in what is going to happen, it tends to be better organized.

 

With a co-op each one of the parents involved tend to have their own idea of what needs to be taught, how it needs to be taught, and when, etc, etc. For example, one time we had a new family get involved and the mom wanted to teach a course in growing herbs. We tried to diplomatically explain that we had very limited room space and the logic, Latin, and great books courses had precedence, but she insisted that she had a right to offer her course! The board had to assert some authority and say "Sorry, no. This is not the mission of the study center." So, it wasn't personal; there was no one person who had to be the bad guy.

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If you have a study center run by a small group of people (a board) rather than everyone having an equal say in what is going to happen, it tends to be better organized.

 

With a co-op each one of the parents involved tend to have their own idea of what needs to be taught, how it needs to be taught, and when, etc, etc. For example, one time we had a new family get involved and the mom wanted to teach a course in growing herbs. We tried to diplomatically explain that we had very limited room space and the logic, Latin, and great books courses had precedence, but she insisted that she had a right to offer her course! The board had to assert some authority and say "Sorry, no. This is not the mission of the study center." So, it wasn't personal; there was no one person who had to be the bad guy.

Ok, this simply sounds like a controlled coop. Essentially what you are describing is a type of private "school" functioning under the name study center.

 

That is something I am not interested in at all. I thought you were describing something that really worked in a fashion of helping moms educate themselves or book studies.

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Curious: how much critical mass i.e. people does it require to make it feasible to hire an actual expert and pay them according to their expertise?

Aside from limited interest in the IRL homeschoolers I know, I am also surrounded by  homeschooling families for whom a $5 entrance fee creates a financial hardship and has to be carefully budgeted. I can't imagine them pooling money to hire a competent teacher for anything.

 

I was not talking about hiring a 'certified expert!'  I don't necessarily feel that this would be the best person for the job. (We tried not to be too prejudiced against anyone with a teaching degree. Actually many of us did have those sorts of degrees.) But first of all, the tutor needs to be someone who loves a classical approach to learning, and someone who understands and sees the power of homeschooling. So, no, we don't seek outside experts. 

 

But we did want to offer classes in logic by someone who had actually studied it a little bit before teaching, and who would take the position seriously; so it made sense to give them some financial remuneration. It just brings about greater commitment both ways, from the students who are paying --and from the person who is teaching and has some learning or experience in the area.

 

Most of our tutors are found from the moms and dads (some with degrees in their area--others who've studied the subject on their own). Occasionally we are able to enlist a retiree with expertise. For example, the humanities course at Collegium is taught by a retired college professor with a doctorate in political philosophy. He is a Christian with a heart to mentor young people.

 

Still.... it is also possible to do this as a co-op, with the parents pooling their own expertise and learning along with the students. Either way it will be essential that you develop a core of parents who get to know one another as friends and are committed to each other that way--so that you can work together and create something beautiful. Don't look at each other in a utilitarian way, thinking, where can I find people who will serve my needs?....The camaraderie and fellowship of homeschooling together is one of the greatest learning experiences families can have. It should be a humane endeavor where we learn how to overturn our modern, utilitarian (use people) mindset. 

 

 

(edited to get rid of too many exclamation points!!!!  :')

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...I thought you were describing something that really worked in a fashion of helping moms educate themselves or book studies.

 

Actually, this is my favorite part of the whole thing....We did get together and study ourselves. That is just it. Then along came a whole bunch of other homeschoolers who wanted to pay us to teach their kids. And since then I have been trying to encourage them to study together, too. Thus was born my moms' Summer Latin workshops, etc.

 

But unfortunately, most of the moms resist this. Over the years I have realized that there will always be a few of us who are willing to do the study, and others who don't have the time or interest, who will still be trying to homeschool. So what happens? School gets reinvented. 

 

So, actually there are two ideas at work here:

1) First and foremost we need groups of parents studying together: learning about the real trivium and studying great books.

and then...

2) We need some guidelines and pointers for when there is a demand for more organized co-ops/study centers. There is obviously a huge demand for this right now--that is why CC took off like wildfire.  

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Actually, this is my favorite part of the whole thing....We did get together and study ourselves. That is just it. Then along came a whole bunch of other homeschoolers who wanted to pay us to teach their kids. And since then I have been trying to encourage them to study together, too. Thus was born my moms' Summer Latin workshops, etc.

 

But unfortunately, most of the moms resist this. Over the years I have realized that there will always be a few of us who are willing to do the study, and others who don't have the time or interest, who will still be trying to homeschool. So what happens? School gets reinvented.

 

So, actually there are two ideas at work here:

1) First and foremost we need groups of parents studying together: learning about the real trivium and studying great books.

and then...

2) We need some guidelines and pointers for when there is a demand for more organized co-ops/study centers. There is obviously a huge demand for this right now--that is why CC took off like wildfire.

I don't doubt that there is a demand for it.

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I sense that there is something in this idea that would be useful to me.  But the descriptions I am getting are just too vague for me to find it.  I still don't even know what it is that you are doing with it, how you are running it, how you started it, etc.  I would love to know more, but I feel like I am having to nag for information.  

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I sense that there is something in this idea that would be useful to me. But the descriptions I am getting are just too vague for me to find it. I still don't even know what it is that you are doing with it, how you are running it, how you started it, etc. I would love to know more, but I feel like I am having to nag for information.

Tracy, try googling university model schools. It sounds like she is promoting a similar type program, structured slightly differently and w/o accreditation.

http://www.naums.net

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_University-Model_Schools

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Tracy, try googling university model schools. It sounds like she is promoting a similar type program, structured slightly differently and w/o accreditation.

http://www.naums.net

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_University-Model_Schools

 

 

:mellow:

Hey, I am not trying to promote any specific kind of study center. There are many ways they can be organized. After hearing many of the frustrations people have had with CC (and I've heard this for years) I said maybe we can start a new thread. 

On the 7th page of this thread: 

Does anyone else think Classical Conversations is neither?  (post #315): 

 

 

dauphin, on 28 Feb 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:snapback.png

 

Yes! But how?!?! Help! I'm new to homeschooling and outside-the-box creativity isn't exactly my fortĂƒÂ¨. But the "dialectic discussion" portion of Challenge is what I'm grieved the most by losing when we leave CC. The opportunity to have the group of peers engage in discussion on common content (not just one co-op class) to facilitate being able to relate subjects to one another.

 

I responded:

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart! I remember a discussion here on the board a few years ago (2-3 yrs ago?) about this very subject! It inspired me to get something going again. I had just been talking with a couple of local friends about how hard it was for their teenagers to find anyone to talk with and study with. This, along with our discussion here, was the motivation for me to start our new online center and the "Conversatio."

Way back in 2000 (living in Colorado then) we started our "in the flesh" Collegium Study Center--it was for the same purpose you state here:

 

"The opportunity to have the group of peers engage in discussion on common content ...."

 

I think that one of the keys to having a successful group is to have a clear vision of the purpose, and then organize a short term group which will enable you to have discussions with other parents about that vision. If you find like-minded people, make it a "club" or a "study center." It is essential to have a board (could be just 2-3) of like-minded people to keep from having the problems of a strong-willed person coming in and derailing it. ... Its a little bit or work, but doesn't have to be too formalized... Perhaps we should start a new thread for this issue....

:leaving:

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Ok, Tracy,

I have plenty of time now, so let me see if I can answer your questions more adequately.

 

I am really interested in this thread, though I am still not entirely sure how a study center is different than a co-op.  

My other question is how did you find the people interested in reading the Iliad.  Who (and how many) did you propose it to?  Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops.  Our kids are pretty young still, so I think we are pretty happy with a play group.  But as they get older, we may want/need groups for our academics.  

 

What is it that they (and you) are looking for which you haven't found?   

 

Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops.  

 

This is the perfect time for you to start encouraging one another on and growing together in your thinking. While the kids play, you and your friends could discuss a book. Do you, the parents, have a desire to start reading classics together and learning about the Socratic method?

 

Here are two good books on Socratic seminars:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1571103945/

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1930556225/

 

And for a summary, hereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s a link to a PDF on this:

https://www.nwabr.org/sites/default/files/SocSem.pdf

 

If you do this together, then you will begin to model learning for your young students! There is nothing more energizing for a homeschool than Mom as an excited student.  At least that's what my kids have told me.

:laugh:

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A study center with qualified, paid tutors teaching classes of homeschooled children not on a daily basis, hired by parents, with a supervisory and advisory board and controlled offerings....

 

how is this not a UMS?

 

I'm not criticizing the plan. I just don't see how calling it something different makes it any different.

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:mellow:

Hey, I am not trying to promote any specific kind of study center. There are many ways they can be organized. After hearing many of the frustrations people have had with CC (and I've heard this for years) I said maybe we can start a new thread. 

On the 7th page of this thread: 

Does anyone else think Classical Conversations is neither?  (post #315): 

 

 

dauphin, on 28 Feb 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:snapback.png

 

Yes! But how?!?!

 

 

YES, that's ME! *waves hand*

 

Ok, Tracy,

I have plenty of time now, so let me see if I can answer your questions more adequately.

 

 

What is it that they (and you) are looking for which you haven't found?   

 

Right now, we have a small group of friends who have not found what they want in the co-ops.  

 

This is the perfect time for you to start encouraging one another on and growing together in your thinking. While the kids play, you and your friends could discuss a book. Do you, the parents, have a desire to start reading classics together and learning about the Socratic method?

 

Here are two good books on Socratic seminars:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1571103945/

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1930556225/

 

And for a summary, hereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s a link to a PDF on this:

https://www.nwabr.org/sites/default/files/SocSem.pdf

 

If you do this together, then you will begin to model learning for your young students! There is nothing more energizing for a homeschool than Mom as an excited student.  At least that's what my kids have told me.

:laugh:

 

Yes, I think starting with -what are you wanting- seems like a great place to start. And then going from there. As I mentioned, I'm not much of the "outside-the-box" type, but I was hoping we could discuss an array of ways to structure the..um..whateverit'scalled. But I'm hearing people contributing to this thread primarily to pigeonhole the OP???. I loooove university studies (I did my fair share of them and I'd keep going to school if I could), and was just thinking to myself how CC was somewhat of a university model at the Challenge levels. So I found that University(ISH) structuring seemed appealing to me. But when I read those links about UMS I get the feel of a MUCH more structured setup than what I would want/need. As in, the whole curriculum is laid out, and there's a defined trajectory/specified courses to be completed at each age (and therefore there is VERY little flexibility for individualization when needed (e.g., acceleration)), which is the whole reason we started homeschooling. Like, there's a co-op near us that uses TOG and every bit of the student's education (well, except extracurricular) is dictated by their TOG curriculum (homework assignments (and OMG a boatload of those), topics covered and order of the coverage, what month to read what book, etc.). NOT what I am looking for. What AM I wanting? Well, as I mentioned in the other thread, I am grieving that by not participating in CC's Challenge program next year, we will be missing out on the opportunity for "dialectic conversations" covering common content matter (vs. the typical co-op class around here where the students are enrolled in/have discussion on: only that one class's content because any two students may not have any other overlap in their enrolled co-ops or coursework for that term). Okay, but if I talk about "common content" then I'm getting into a prescribed curriculum and therein may be the gray area. At least with CC's setup, there was an attitude of "the parent is the teacher, and they should scale the assignments/discussions to the level most appropriate for that student." But to have 5-6 kids who are all studying several of the same literature/living/great books, timelines in history, scientific developments/history, etc. and have the opportunity to (and/or are encouraged to by the facilitator/tutor/parent/teacher, at least initially, because the ability to have these kinds of discussions are built over time like any skill, right?) discuss how they might relate/interrelate, what one means to another, etc. So is that Socratic discussions? I have no idea. I'm kind of rambling, it's late. And you guys have familiarity with models/conceptualizations that I haven't experienced (I started homeschooling about 15 months ago, and unexpectedly at that). So maybe if you can tell me more about pros/cons of some of these different models/terminology you are throwing around??? Pretty please? And if it is your opinion that something "won't work" or isn't consistent with TWTM, or classical ed., or just good interpersonal dynamics, I'd love to hear it! Please don't leave me hanging, to reinvent the wheel! SHARE THE WISDOM!!!

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Dauphin, I just picked 2 links. There are lots of UMS out there. The ones I have seen select their own courses with their own materials and kids enroll in whatever courses they need. The main difference I have seen between a coop and a UMS is that the UMS classes are meant to be the core, not supplemental, and grading is standard.

 

I don't know if Derek Owens refers to his school in Atlanta as a UMS, but it seems to follow that model.

http://www.metroacademicstudies.com

Aquinas Learning is another that I am familiar with. http://www.aquinaslearning.com

 

The only pt I was trying to make is that these models of schools are out there around the country. They are not coops. They are truly hybrids. But bc of the way they function. It is more like enrolling your child in school and their not attending the building everyday but doing the work at home.

 

It isn't homeschooling with complete autonomy and freedom. It is more like parental oversight over the school's assignments.

 

Lots of people want and need this sort of system. It is why they are springing up all over the country. It simply isn't what I thought Beth was describing in her original description.

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Hi, dauphin!
:)
 

YES, that's ME! *waves hand*
 
Yes, I think starting with -what are you wanting- seems like a great place to start. .... I found that University(ISH) structuring seemed appealing to me. But when I read those links about UMS I get the feel of a MUCH more structured setup than what I would want/need. As in, the whole curriculum is laid out, and there's a defined trajectory/specified courses to be completed at each age (and therefore there is VERY little flexibility for individualization when needed (e.g., acceleration)), which is the whole reason we started homeschooling.

 
Exactly!!  That's why I rushed to say that the UMS is definitely not what I was suggesting!  Forget the terms "study center" or "co-op" --perhaps we can call it a "group."  Over the years, I just began avoiding the term co-op because of its connotations. I definitely don't want the term "school," either.  
 
My desire has always been to get homeschooling families together who are interested in true education, classical ed*  - to provide a structure of some sort that will encourage moms to really *home* school.. and begin to learn together as a family! The main thing that most of us need is camaraderie, a place to bounce ideas off each other, and an occasional class or workshop led by one of us who has more experience with a subject or idea. But over the years I found that if you have a small group of like-minded families, and begin to grow and offer some classes/ workshops, and you don't have a "charter" of some sort (or what I was referring to as "a board")--then other homeschoolers will come along and start changing your direction.
 
But you may never need to worry about that--if you just have an informal group of people who do some discussion classes. In that case you could just propose some books that you are going to hold discussions over. Find a few others who will commit to them for a period of weeks or a year. That's a different beast, if you are just going to do it short term.

 

But anyway, the idea of a place where all sorts of people come in and out choosing a course to take--or choosing the whole program to enroll their student in--is anathema to me! To my mind, that's not homeschooling. One of the most essential components of classical education is integration: this means "making whole again." The Latin adjective, integer, integra, integrum,  means "whole/ complete" --its the idea of something that is healthy, with all of its components in the right place! 
 
Only a home school (or a very small group of families in a little school) can come near to being successful with this, because you are relating to each other as whole people, over a long period of time. And you are able to relate the 'subject at hand' to life, and to other things you have studied, or are studying. It is a tall order to find the balance between structure and organic growth when you get a group going.

 

 

(Oops, editing because I forgot to put this footnote)

*classical ed -- so you'll know what I mean by this, the books that I like: Beauty in the Word by Caldecott, Norms & Nobility by Hicks, etc!

And for homeschooling, one of my great favorites: For the Children's Sake by Susan Schaeffer Macaulay

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  • 1 month later...

Hello dauphin, and any others who might be still interested!

 

I've been wanting to answer your questions better--sorry it took me so long!--but I finally have some free time to give better developed answers to your questions.

 

In answer to this one...

 

...So maybe if you can tell me more about pros/cons of some of these different models/terminology you are throwing around??? Pretty please? And if it is your opinion that something "won't work" or isn't consistent with TWTM, or classical ed., or just good interpersonal dynamics, I'd love to hear it! Please don't leave me hanging...

 

There are a myriad of different types of co-ops, study centers, etc. With the boom in homeschooling there was a huge need for groups that would provide classes and encouragement. And simply, a way for hschoolers to connect.

 

In the early days, co-ops were simply informal groups, loosely organized by a couple of parents, to provide a few classes for their children. Sometimes a lot of camaraderie was a by-product--often this was an accident or the leaders were intentional about it and put a priority on it. Everyone would share duties as much as possible; so that it would be either free, or very affordable to the mostly one income families. They would enlist one person to organize activities, one person to teach some math workshops, another to lead a literature discussion. These groups were great and helped a lot of us. But the biggest problem was that some parents didn't have much to give or the where-with-all to volunteer, and so a few parents would take on too much of the work and then get burned out. Another problem was that a strong-willed parent would come in and sort of hi-jact the group for their own pet project or idea for a course. There are still plenty of these general homeschoolers' co-ops.

 

Then you have the other extreme. Large organizations who decide to tap into the hschooling market. They set up a selection of courses, and charge a tuition fee. Find anyone who has some expertise in a subject to provide teaching. This ends up in being a very impersonal--a marketplace for academic courses of varying degrees of quality. Simply course offerings for homeschoolers, online or 'in the flesh.'

 

But now we have seen a new "hybrid" as one poster put it. CC is the prime example of this. The founder capitalized on the need for support and camaraderie, and the need for feeling as if one understood "classical education." And to take care of that problem of the individualistic homeschooler who hijacts the program, she took away all need--or ability--for any decision making. The inc. tells everyone exactly what books to buy, what age to teach this and that, etc. etc. It is a "co-op like" group, with the curriculum and organization completely designed by one hschooler to fill the needs of everyone--and then it gets duplicated all over the place. In other words, it's a co-op franchise.  Although I don't know anything about the origination of the University Model organization, UMS, it seems like a similar thing.

 

Here's what I've been searching for a way to create, and it seems to me that there are others who wish for this, but it is a tall order--and it seems to be something that can only grow organically:

Back in 2002 when I formed our Collegium Study Center* in Colorado I wanted to keep the spontaneity of a co-op, yet provide unity of purpose and avoid burnout (called it a study center to try and differentiate it from looser 'co-ops').  I considered it a club for like-minded families who wanted to learn together. It was for those of us who wanted to study classics and learn the three subjects of the trivium so that we could effectively teach our kids. And also, I wanted us to really get to know one another in our pursuit of those goals. The hope was that any classes that we held for kids, would be done by one of us (or someone we knew well) who had some expertise and love of a certain subject. When this opportunity happened we would pay that tutor a fee for their services. Yet there would still be plenty of informal learning within our book club and other such things. To keep it from devolving because of burnout or loosing its focus--and to enable us to find rooms to use in an organization's building--I gave it some solid organization by forming a non-profit and allowing it to be run by a board. 

 

The first and most difficult problem to solve: how to bring together a few like-minded homeschoolers --where to find them!?

As I have time, I will answer this in more detail--plus, I hope others will pipe up with their experiences and ideas.

 

 

*By the way, I left the group about 7 years ago, when we moved away from Colorado, and it is now very different than what I started it to be. Over the years it has become a formal "school for homeschoolers." It's more like a UMS.

 

 

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And to answer this one...

 

...What AM I wanting? Well, as I mentioned in the other thread, I am grieving that by not participating in CC's Challenge program next year, we will be missing out on the opportunity for "dialectic conversations" .... to have 5-6 kids who are all studying several of the same literature/living/great books, timelines in history, scientific developments/history, etc. and have the opportunity to (and/or are encouraged to by the facilitator/tutor/parent/teacher, at least initially, because the ability to have these kinds of discussions are built over time like any skill, right?) 

 

Exactly! what I put in bold above. 

 

The key is to find a way to attract like-minded families and have "a class" or book discussion club that could evolve into something more lasting. 

 

My suggestion would be to simple start an adult discussion--perhaps over a great book which relates to the need for  And organize some kids activities too, just short-term events that would bring these people out of the woodwork. Bounce your concerns and ideas off of them (and pray that the Spirit will bring together people you can grow with).

 

Lets say that you find just 4-5 interested families. And they are all using different curricula--studying different eras of history. You could begin by proposing that the students delve into one particular timeless issue and how it is dealt with by thinkers in that era. The issue of freedom versus servitude ... there are so many issues. Or, it might be easier to have the kids discuss one particular literary classic (regardless of where that families history studies are at the time). 

 

But in order to have a "club" form out of this, you need to find parents who are willing to commit to meeting together and developing a unified goal for the group. It can be as simple or as ambitious as you want! Write up a one paragraph summary of what you want the group to seek and spread the word in your community. Ideally, start with 2-3 friends you already know well, then open it up to strangers (so that you'll have some support if you end up with a crazy person in your midst).

 

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Great tips! 

 

What seems to be evolving here, is a conversation between a group of friends/FB-friends about our desire for a dialectic discussion group for our kids. Most of them range from about 10-14. I think several of them are anxious to "get their plans for next year settled" so I wonder how this will take shape. Will we do a small something just to get started? Or postpone doing anything for next year so we have time to start meeting up as the parents? (Which is definitely NOT my top choice....)

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Great tips! 

 

What seems to be evolving here, is a conversation between a group of friends/FB-friends about our desire for a dialectic discussion group for our kids. Most of them range from about 10-14. I think several of them are anxious to "get their plans for next year settled" so I wonder how this will take shape. Will we do a small something just to get started? Or postpone doing anything for next year so we have time to start meeting up as the parents? (Which is definitely NOT my top choice....)

 

This is great!  I hope you can do both: start meeting as parents and get a small thing going with the kids. It will take some commitment of time--but you will find that it is so rewarding. Oh--the things you can learn from friendships with other adults who are continuing to stretch themselves and keep learning! 

 

Do you have a book or two in mind that you adults might read together? You could meet for a few days in the summer, having a short term "book club" or something. No less a thinker than Aristotle said that friends are essential for developing the mind! Not too long ago I found a great article on this. I was trying to find someone else writing about Aristotle's take on friendship, and found it at the website for a YMCA in London!! 

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Dauphin,

 

I also sent out an email seeing if I could find any local people interested in starting a book study.  I chose Poetic Knowledge.   I had 3 women interested.   I am excited especially after my conversations with one woman in particular.   We have similar backgrounds (degrees in ed and wanting more than ps methodologies offer).   Our conversations are what I have been looking for.  :)

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  • 3 months later...

Hey look at this!
I just discovered this beautiful blog about starting a study group--by a friend from Circe. Jennifer is doing just what we've been talking about! And she lays out a plan for you, too!

http://www.expandingwisdom.com/2014/06/starting-classical-co-op.html

 

 

 

Dauphin,

 

I also sent out an email seeing if I could find any local people interested in starting a book study.  I chose Poetic Knowledge.   I had 3 women interested.   I am excited especially after my conversations with one woman in particular.   We have similar backgrounds (degrees in ed and wanting more than ps methodologies offer).   Our conversations are what I have been looking for.  :)

 

This is so wonderful, 8. These are the kinds of connections we all need!

 

 

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Hey look at this!

I just discovered this beautiful blog about starting a study group--by a friend from Circe. Jennifer is doing just what we've been talking about! And she lays out a plan for you, too!

http://www.expandingwisdom.com/2014/06/starting-classical-co-op.html

!

This was great! Thank you for sharing this!

 

It looks like there won't be anything like this going on for this year but there's plenty of prep time for next year!

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