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Essay Voyage versus Advanced Academic Writing


EndOfOrdinary
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I have been sucked into MCT. I must honestly thank the forum for this because it looks great and is much needed around here. My issue becomes where to start. As much as I tried to find information online, it seems to elude me. The samples at MCT won't seem to come up correctly. I figured y'all have a ton of experience and could help.

 

My son is a humanities kid. Like many kids on this forum are ahead in math, he is ahead in literature and language. Writing had never been of much interest to him, however. He can write very well when required, he just fussed about it so we kept it to a minimum. Now, he is actually choosing to write so I am looking for curriculum.

 

He has had to do essay work for school since he was quite young because Dh is a high school English teacher. If our son wanted to participate in my husband's high school book discussions, he had to write the essays just like the high school kids (graded with the same rubric, revised, turned back in, whole deal).

 

My husband does not have time to directly teach my son about writing. He tried this last summer and it was a disaster. The authoritarian school teacher clashed quite dramatically with the gifted homeschooler. My husband mainly wants to edit, grade, and provide feedback. I am the cheerleader and curriculum wench.

 

At this point my son can write a thesis (though rather formulaic at times); outline a five paragraph essay; complete an introduction, supporting paragraphs, and conclusion; use parenthetical footnotes; and site texted based evidence to support his points. He has persuasive down, but not expository or compare/contrast.

 

Transition statements still give him some trouble, and fleshing out his ideas so they do not sound repetitive is still part of his revising process. He has a list of citation phrases like, "According to" or "as shown in the text" or "the author stated" that my husband gave him to use and he still pulls heavily from that list.

 

Does this put him in Essay Voyage or in Advanced Academic Writing? Maybe it puts him somewhere else entirely - I was a STEM major, this isn't my area!

 

We will be using Word Within A Word and Magic Lens (both volume 1) next year if that helps. Poetry is probably going to wait one more year as the interest is just beginning to intensify.

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I haven't BTDT but I've been researching the whole MCT line lately. I found some great reviews by a boardie here: http://quarksandquirks.wordpress.com/start-here/

 

And you probably want to try to get those samples to work, in order to really get a feel for the programs. MCT's articles here are also pretty informative: http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/downloads/

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MCT does not teach how to write an essay. In the first half of Voyage, he teaches stylistic techniques to improve the quality of the writing. In the 2nd half of Voyage and AAW, the essays focus on MLA and incorporating quotes to support the argument.

 

I find his essay with supporting quote instruction to be incorrect. His paragraph construction is weak. He starts new paragraphs when the information should be incorporated into the prior paragraph. He encourages students to use too many block quotes vs students creating their own argument with just enough quoting to prove their pt, and he consistently ends his paragraphs with a quote when using a block quote. I eventually used AAW to discuss what not to do vs actually essay instruction.

 

Since your dh is an English teacher, I would recommend having him look at the online example MCT has for To Kill a Mockingbird bc it is fairly representative of all of hIs MLA essays that he uses for teaching how to incorporate supporting evidence correctly.

http://www.rfwp.com/samples/3-pages-one-glance.pdf

 

Some people have no problems with his writing instruction at this level and think it is great. If you and your dh like the linked example and find it exemplifies great essay writing, you would probably be happy with the books.

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So in the Mockingbird paper I see evidence of a clearly developed argument from a literary source. I was taught that in literature papers, the primary source *must* be referenced, because the argument will not be adequately supported by means of opinion; only direct reference is valid. By virtue of being a three-page paper, this example has an introduction that is developed in two paragraphs. This is followed by five ideas that create and develop the argument, each with a quotation from the novel and an elaboration by the essayist. These ideas are drawn together into a whole by the concluding paragraphs, the last of which concisely states the well-supported thesis of the paper.

 

This doesn't feel like excessive quoting; the author has paraphrased within the block quote in order to excise unnecessary material. I don't see how any of the quotes could be further paraphrased or limited without limiting the support for the argument. I grant you that the block quotes ending paragraphs feel awkward. But having a continuation of the paragraph without indentation, as if the author's continuing thoughts were so closely related to the quote, also feels awkward. The sentences following the quotes clearly do serve as the interpretation and content generation part of the essay, and so I see the indentation as a stylistic choice.

 

This is not a formulaic five-paragraph essay, and on the rubrics I was told about for the AP Literature exam for example, it might not get high marks. But as an example of thinking about and engaging with literature at a university level within the confines of a three page limit and a single novel source? I don't see where complaint would be raised. But then, it's been a little while since I studied literature, and that only at a freshman level. :) I look forward to learning more about how to develop my little ones as writers and as academics!

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I have discussed this topic at length on the forums before and don't plan on going through it again.   Like I said, some people are happy with his instruction.   I'm not.  Simply my opinion.  FWIW, my kids have never been taught to write a formulaic 5 paragraph essay, so that comparison has no bearing on my opinion.   A simple summation of my thoughts would be-- 6 block quotes in a 3 page paper is excessive.   The writer relies too much on the quotations and not enough on their own analysis.  Paraphrasing is superior to block quoting. (FWIW, paraphrasing is a legitimate way to discuss a literary work.)  A single sentence introducing a block quotation and that being all that constitutes a paragraph is not appropriate for this level of writing.  BLock quotes require extensive analysis, not a couple of sentences.

 

Feel free to completely disagree.

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 He starts new paragraphs when the information should be incorporated into the prior paragraph. He encourages students to use too many block quotes vs students creating their own argument with just enough quoting to prove their pt, and he consistently ends his paragraphs with a quote when using a block quote.

 

Huh. Wow, how very....odd.

 

 

The sentences following the quotes clearly do serve as the interpretation and content generation part of the essay, and so I see the indentation as a stylistic choice.

 

 

Starting a new paragraph is not a "stylistic choice." Not in an academic paper.

 

 

I've been leaning towards MCT (for my long-term planning) because it apparently avoids teaching to write adverb-ly. 8, I'll try to find your previous "discussions of this topic at length" because I am curious about your opinion on the writing instruction before AAW.

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8 -- Just to clarify -- are you saying that you felt Advanced Academic Writing was superior to Essay Voyage?  (I want to make sure I understand what AAW stands for in your initial post).

 

No.   Essay includes stylistic techniques in the first 1/2 of the book.   AAW (Advanced Academic Writing) is simply instruction via a compliation of essays similar to the one linked.  (in both AAW 1 and 2).   I wouldn't use the word superior to describe MCT's MLA essay instruction.  ;)   The block quoting and how they are incorporated in his example essays is poor writing in my opinion.   If you research academic writing, you'll find that I am not alone in that opinion:

 

 

2 Quoting vs the alternatives
. Quoting is only one of several ways to present textual material as evidence. You can also refer to textual data, summarize, and paraphrase. You will often want merely to refer or point to passages (as in the third sentence above) that contribute to your argument. In other cases you will want to paraphrase, i.e. "translate" the original into your own words, again instead of quoting. Summarize or paraphrase when it is not so much the language of the text that justifies your position, but the substance or content.
Quoting selectively
. Similarly, after you have decided that you do want to use material in quoted form, quote only the portions of the text specifically relevant to your point. Think of the text in terms of units--words, phrases, sentences, and groups of sentences(paragraphs, stanzas)--and use only the units you need. If it is particular words or phrases that "prove" your point, you do not need to quote the sentences they appear in; rather, incorporate the words and phrases into sentences expressing your own ideas.

 

Understand how to use block quotes.... they should be used sparingly with a maximum of 1-2 for a complete paper.

 

3. Use block quotations sparingly.There may be times when you need to quote long passages. However, you should use block quotations only when you fear that omitting any words will destroy the integrity of the passage.    https://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/quotations/

 

The block quotes and paragraph development are the 2 main issues that I disagree with.

 

 

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I have discussed this topic at length on the forums before and don't plan on going through it again.   Like I said, some people are happy with his instruction.   I'm not.  Simply my opinion.  FWIW, my kids have never been taught to write a formulaic 5 paragraph essay, so that comparison has no bearing on my opinion.   A simple summation of my thoughts would be-- 6 block quotes in a 3 page paper is excessive.   The writer relies too much on the quotations and not enough on their own analysis.  Paraphrasing is superior to block quoting. (FWIW, paraphrasing is a legitimate way to discuss a literary work.)  A single sentence introducing a block quotation and that being all that constitutes a paragraph is not appropriate for this level of writing.  BLock quotes require extensive analysis, not a couple of sentences.

 

Feel free to completely disagree.

 

I respect your opinion a great deal and am confident that your kids are good thinkers who express themselves well in writing! Like I said, I'd been researching these materials lately and had seen some of your objections; however, they kept coming back to the new-paragraph-after-quoting issue, which seemed a small hill to die on. I am going to stick with it being reasonable to have 5 ideas each supported from the text (in two places, two bits from the same page are broken up by a paraphrase, so I'd call that one quote) but I concede your point about it being possible to expound more on the ideas espoused by these quotes -- the paragraph with three sentences and one of them is a brief quote, particularly, looks less than sturdy. On the other hand, this is meant to be a student essay and it's not clear if MCT would have given it a perfect score. It's used as an example of the *shape* of a longer paper as compared with a five-paragraph essay, not as an example of A+ quality work. I take it that there were other examples in the instructional materials that you also objected to...I might still end up with a copy to look at myself. I've got time before I need it! :lol:

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8 - do you have any recommendations for other writing curriculum? Finding curriculum for a subject I am not vastly knowledgeable about is a challenge for me.

 

I am not worried about the amount of assignments, as his writing is incorporated into the rest of our homeschool. Creative writing is okay, but since he is wanting to go into the Classics or linguistics I feel like the academic writing needs to be addressed.

 

Anyone else's know of good ones? IEW did not work for us.

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8 - do you have any recommendations for other writing curriculum? Finding curriculum for a subject I am not vastly knowledgeable about is a challenge for me.

 

I am not worried about the amount of assignments, as his writing is incorporated into the rest of our homeschool. Creative writing is okay, but since he is wanting to go into the Classics or linguistics I feel like the academic writing needs to be addressed.

 

Anyone else's know of good ones? IEW did not work for us.

 

Have you seen the Writing without a Curriculum thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/504322-writing-wo-a-curriculum-lets-create-a-master-thread/

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I don't typically teach my kids with a writing program bc I find it easier to just teach. If you like reading and understanding things on your own, one approach would be to read books like college English comp textbooks (if you have a community college or university near you, you could go to their bookstore and look through some in person) or a book like A Writer's Reference. http://www.amazon.com/A-Writers-Reference-Diana-Hacker/dp/0312601433 I'm sure your library would have a copy. Then there are typical high school textbooks like Sadlier Oxford (this link gives a preview inside. http://schoolstore.sadlier.com/ProductsList.aspx?CategoryID=3 )

 

An old book that focuses just on the basic essay, but not specific types of essays, is Lively Art of Writing. He might be beyond this pt.

 

The stylistic writing instruction in Put That in Writing level 1 is very good, but the assignments are awful and the actual instruction contained in the book is only about 1/4 of the entire book. Level 1 is paragraph writing. She has a level 2 which is essay instruction, but I have never personally seen it. http://barrettsbookshelf.com/files/toc1.pdf (I think her paragraph instruction is solid. I wish it was not so expensive and you could just get a thin book with the instructional materials.)

 

Sorry that I can't just say that I love book x. I have never found a book that I really like. I know what I expect from quality writing and it is simply easier for me to just teach them through conversation and editing.

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OP, in addition to the writing without a curriculum link, you might want to look at:

My Evaluation of Numerous Writing Curricula by boardie Ruth (lewelma) and

Bringing Karen's Mention of Essay Writing to a New Thread -- this thread includes two very detailed posts by 8 on how, step-by-step, one can go from an early elementary non-writer to a middle- or high- school essayist. 

 

 

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I like MCT for elementary, but I am not thrilled with AAW. It is dull....really, really dull. I found that the instruction is on about the same level as my MLA handbook that I referred to in college when writing papers. I like Essay Voyage, but not the writing book.

 

I understand the critiques regarding the block quoting. I agree that for a real paper the requirement for long quotes is excessive and I wouldn't write that way. The point of the essay, however, is to learn how to put the quote in and how to cite and format it properly. If you want to practice long quotes more than once or twice, you'd normally have to write a bunch of really long papers. I think MCT's goal was to reduce the writing load to something reasonable for middle school students. Personally, I don't think it's something that needs so much focus as it is rarely used and it's not that hard to look it up in the book when you need it.

 

I don't have any other suggestions for writing. I have pretty much ditched AAW except for the assignments and I am discussing things with DS and teaching him through correction and dialogue. I think from the way you describe your DS, he is beyond AAW anyway. I also dislike AAW because I really don't like MLA, so I am probably biased.

 

[Correction- Essay Voyage was the level we skipped. I saw the preview and thought the voyage series didn't have much more than Paragraph Town. Maybe it's better, and if you haven't done any MCT, then it could be a good level to jump in.]

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After a whole lot of thinking, and reading, and then searching, I think we might change directions and go with MCT's Word Within a Word, along with Killgallon's Sentence Composing for High School and Paragraphs for High School. These will really get him working on style and how the structure of his grammar reflects the implication about what he is saying. It is style that I was really noticing him wanting more of. I just had no idea that is what I was looking for until all the wealth of info from this thread. Thank you all so much!

 

I am leaning toward the writing without a curriculum. So much of our homeschooling works this way. Thee is a spine, but then pulling in and elaborating on many fronts. My personal insecurities with writing are holding me back. Even foreign languages don't freak me out the way the ever nebulous subject of writing does. I'm hoping with a bit of curriculum as a crutch we can venture away in the next two years and really just write, talk, and read great things.

 

Again, thank you all for helping me to realize just what it was that I wanted and what my real issues really were.

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